Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Wittlesbachs => Topic started by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 02, 2006, 06:36:58 PM

Title: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 02, 2006, 06:36:58 PM
Hello! This is my first post here, and I must to beg your pardon because my english is not very fluent.

I´m very interesting about the older brother of Empress Elisabeth of Austria, Ludwig. I know that he was married to a commoner woman, Henriette Mendel, the mother of his children Karl (died a few months later after his birth) and Marie Louise von Wallarsee. I need to know what happens when Marie Louise, at this time countess Larisch, was banished from the vienese court after the Mayerling´s plot. Was Ludwig supportive to his daughter?

One more time...thank you for your help...and sorry for my poor, very poor English...

I smile to all of you from Spain

;)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Svetabel on February 03, 2006, 12:27:26 AM
Welcome to the Forums, Eugenie! :)

Actually Ludwig seemed to be a kind of a mysterious person. Anyway he was not much loved by his relatives as I had read in some books on Empress Elisabeth, his sister.
Here on our Forums we have experts  :) who know a lot  about Dukes in Bavaria. I think they'll answer your question. :)

Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 03, 2006, 01:37:22 PM
Ludwig and his daughter Marie Louise have never had a close relationship.
When Marie was a child, her father didn't know what to do with her, because he didn't like little children at all. Maybe he was even offended that Marie survived, but his beloved son Carl Emanuel had to die.

After 1889, Marie still had contact to her parents. Above all, she loved her mother. Henriette died in 1891. Since then, Marie and Ludwig haven't seen each other regularly.
It also hurt Marie's feelings that Ludwig married Antonie Barth only one year after her mother's death. She sometimes visited the couple. One evening in 1897/98 Marie Louise heard her father (who was very jealous) and Antonie argue heavily. Marie was side with Antonie. Because of that Ludwig became that angry that he forced his daughter to leave his house. They've never met again.
Ludwig also didn't accept Marie's plan to write a book about her aunt Marie of Naples ("Die Heldin von Gaeta"). Ludwig and the former Queen were very close in their later years and that's why Ludwig was afraid of rumours concerning his little sister.

Marie read about her father's death in a newspaper in 1920. But it's quite interesting that she wanted to be buried next to her father at the Ostfriedhof in Munich.

Hope, I could help.

BTW: Eugenie, your English is perfectly okay. :) Welcome.

Marie
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 03, 2006, 05:42:04 PM
Thank you!! I´m really grateful to you, Svetabel and MarieCharlotte. The briefing that you provides me, MarieCharlote, is very interesting.

Just one thing...when you writte that Ludwig and her sister Marie of Two Sicilies were very closer in the last times of their lives, and Ludwig was afraid about the rumours concerning his daughter...what do you mean? I believe that you say that because Marie Larisch had a good reason for let fly and fly in the wind rumours such as the rumour that she was a daughter of the forbbiden relationship between Queen Marie and a belgian count. Am I right?

:)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 04, 2006, 09:48:24 AM
Of course, Marie Louise made up a lot of strange stories throughout her life. Ludwig wasn't happy about his daughter's idea of writing a  book about Marie of Naples at all. Maybe he also thought of this rumour you have already mentioned. But you have to consider that Marie Louise knew a lot of private things, too, that shouldn't be published.
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 04, 2006, 04:43:18 PM
I believe that you´re right, Marie Charlotte. What do you know about Henriette Mendel? And...about Marie Larisch?
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 05, 2006, 09:27:37 AM
A lot.  :)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 05, 2006, 09:41:57 AM
Quote
A lot.  :)


If you want to share your "lot" of knowledge concerning the two woman, It will be nice  ;)

I just have read Elisabeth Reluctant Empress by Hammann and the bio about Elisabeth wrotte by Egon Caesar Corti. Here in Spain is not easy to found books about de bavarian relatives of Elisabeth.

:)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Svetabel on February 06, 2006, 12:33:58 AM
Corti's book is rather good, but he often paints an idealistic portait of Elisabeth. BTW, he did not tell much about her siblings :(
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 07, 2006, 03:35:32 AM
Eugenie, there's a wonderful book about Marie Louise Wallersee called "Jene Gräfin Larisch" by Brigitte Sokop. Maybe there is at least an English translation of this book. It contains lots of information about her parents Ludwig and Henriette.
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 07, 2006, 04:38:51 AM
Thank you very much, MarieCharlotte.

I will try to found the english translation...

;)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Agneschen on February 07, 2006, 05:32:46 AM
Quote
Eugenie, there's a wonderful book about Marie Louise Wallersee called "Jene Gräfin Larisch" by Brigitte Sokop.


I pre-ordered this book recently (new edition - will not be release before April) so I am real glad to hear that it is good. I can hardly wait to read it !
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 08, 2006, 11:22:13 AM
Help!!

I´m searching for an english translation of Brigitte Sokop´s bio about Marie Larisch. I just found the bio writted in german, but the matter is that I only can read english and french. Please...can you tell me where can I preordered a english version?

Thanks
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Marie Valerie on February 08, 2006, 11:50:42 AM
Quote
Help!!

I´m searching for an english translation of Brigitte Sokop´s bio about Marie Larisch. I just found the bio writted in german, but the matter is that I only can read english and french. Please...can you tell me where can I preordered a english version?

Thanks



There is no english version of the book...

:P


Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 08, 2006, 05:58:41 PM
Glups, glups, glups...

:-[

So, I hope that somebody able to read german books told us little histories...

Please please please...
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 11, 2006, 09:29:13 AM
Ludwig and his second wife Antonie Barbara Barth - a strange couple.

(http://i5.ebayimg.com/02/i/06/22/6d/45_1_b.JPG)

She was 40 years younger than Louis. Later he cheated on him and became pregnant. Antonie's daughter Helene - who is still alive - was born while her mother was still married to Louis. After the divorce from Ludwig, she married her daughter's father, Maximilian Mayr.

Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 20, 2006, 09:12:56 AM
Strange indeed !  ???
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: THERRY on May 17, 2010, 03:25:49 AM
Ludwig and his wife Henriette Mendel in 1859 (scan from E. Bestenreiner book )
(http://i41.tinypic.com/9iept3.jpg)
click to enlarge
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 17, 2010, 11:50:05 AM
Yes. Parents of Marie Countess Larisch.
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on July 10, 2010, 12:12:02 PM
(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/01143519.jpg)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 10, 2010, 12:29:00 PM
Ludwig and his second wife, Antoine Barth

(http://i35.tinypic.com/iygzll.jpg)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on July 10, 2010, 12:40:52 PM
Ludwig with Marie, very sweet (he reminds me of my father)

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/IMAGE0024-1-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 10, 2010, 06:45:19 PM
Oh ! You cut Henriette Mendall (her mother) out !  :o
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: MarieCharlotte on July 11, 2010, 02:45:58 AM
Oh ! You cut Henriette Mendall (her mother) out ! 

It's Mendel.
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 12, 2010, 10:33:34 AM
Thanks ! But you still cut her out...
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on October 12, 2010, 11:13:27 AM

(Sorry Eric, but this detail of the pic was too sweet)


(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5225/lw10.jpg)
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
What detail ?
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on October 12, 2010, 02:26:13 PM
You blamed me for cutting out Henriette. But I liked this father and daughter detail of the picture. It´s lovely.

Marie looks like Marie Valerie. I thought the girl is MV when I saw the picture. But MV wasn´t so keen about her uncle.

Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2010, 03:23:47 PM
Yes. But Marie tells people she was Maria Sofia's love child...I wonder what Ludwig felt about that !
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Rani on October 12, 2010, 03:35:15 PM
Not nice!

Of course an amazon Queen who fought in a battle is better then a little duke.
If Marie had been accepted in the noble circles, I guess she wouldn´t wrote that.
Injured pride let you do some idiot things. In her case deny the background.

Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 12, 2010, 03:50:02 PM
Yes. That is why I am a bit cynical about the father daughter relationship. Her mother Henriette was liked by the family. Who would have thought her daughter became an ungrateful brat !
Title: Re: Ludwig in Bavaria
Post by: Marie Valerie on August 22, 2015, 03:15:31 PM
Has anyone seen a Picture of Helene Mayr (or von Bartolf) the daughter of Ludwigs second wife Antonie and a Mr. Maximilian Mayr?