Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Habsburgs => Topic started by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 09, 2006, 06:10:47 AM

Title: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Eugenie_of_Montijo on February 09, 2006, 06:10:47 AM
...and mother of the emperor Franz Josef.

Have anyone pics on her?

:)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Svetabel on February 12, 2006, 04:12:49 AM
I am not sure where I shoul post this pic but just in case. :)

Archduchess Sophie and her spouse Franz Karl

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Bee/Germany/sopfkarl.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Nathalie on June 16, 2006, 07:01:08 AM
I wonder if anybody has some information about archduchess Sophie, the mother of Franz Jozef I. ? I only read about her in the context of "Sissy", so these books paint a pretty negative picture about her.
I know, that she gave up being an empress in favour of her son-by convincing her husband to abdicate. How was she?

Im sorry, if there is an other thread, I didn't find so far, but also my net connection is very slowly, so search engine is out of the question :(
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 16, 2006, 09:15:39 AM
Dear Nathalie,



I don't know if you understand German, but there are a couple of nice books about Archduchess Sophie.
- Sophie, die heimliche Kaiserin by Gerd Holler
- Kaiserliche Kindheit by Conte Corti (a book about the childhood of Franz Joseph and his siblings)
- Briefe Franz Josephs an seine Mutter, 1838-1872 by Franz Schnürer (this book contains many letters written by Franz Joseph)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Silja on June 22, 2006, 10:05:13 AM
Also, Hellmut Andics, Die Frauen der Habsburger, has a chapter on Sophie.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Marie Valerie on June 22, 2006, 10:48:03 AM
Quote
Dear Nathalie,

there has already been a thread about the daughters of Maximilian I. Joseph of Bavaria. Maybe you are interested in it.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/YaBB.cgi?num=1134318092


I don't know if you understand German, but there are a couple of nice books about Archduchess Sophie.
- Sophie, die heimliche Kaiserin by Gerd Holler
- [highlight]Kaiserliche Kindheit by Conte Corti (a book about the childhood of Franz Joseph and his siblings)[/highlight]
- Briefe Franz Josephs an seine Mutter, 1838-1872 by Franz Schnürer (this book contains many letters written by Franz Joseph)


Isn't "Kaiserliche Kindheit" by Gabriele Praschl-Bichler?

Conte Cortis book is "Vom Kind zum Kaiser".  ;)

Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 22, 2006, 05:05:28 PM
You're absolutely right, Marie Valérie.  ;)

Kaiserliche Kindheit contains extracts of the diary of Archduke Carl Ludwig when he was a child. It's also a very nice book and you can find some information about Sophie in it.

I enjoyed reading Vom Kind zum Kaiser very much. I think it's the only book in which you can learn more about little Archduchess Maria Anna, Sophie's only daughter.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: KarlandZita on December 30, 2006, 09:05:04 AM
The mother of Franz Josef, the archduchess Sophie, contributed largely to his accession with the throne. Indeed, supported by soldiers and diplomats like Schwarzenberg, she could impose her son after the revolution of 1848, with the detriment of her own husband the archduke Franįois Charles.

Born Princess of Bavaria, she was the sister of Ludovika and thus the maternal aunt of Elisabeth.

Here, archduchess Sophie as a young lady :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/youngsophie.jpg)


Her children in 1838 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/sophiechilds.jpg)
Franz Josef sitting on the wooden horse, Ferdinand Max future emperor of Mexico,
Carl Ludwig and archduchess Maria Pia

Archduchess Sophie a few years later :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Hasburg%20Family/archiduchesssofie.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on February 07, 2007, 11:43:00 AM
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/sterreich.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/sofie01.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/georg_treibler_sophie_1869.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/sterreich1.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Veronika on February 07, 2007, 12:40:45 PM
Especially the first picture is beautiful! :)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 08, 2007, 10:42:23 AM
Yes, the first picture is really really beautiful!! She looks so fresh and lovely...a romantic princess. Please, Rani...where you have found the picture? Itīs a portrait?

Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on February 08, 2007, 01:15:43 PM
I cut it out this of this cover of Gerd Hollers book "Sophie - die heimliche Kaiserin"
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/sophie-1.jpg)

Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on February 08, 2007, 01:21:57 PM
Here in grey.

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/sofie.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 08, 2007, 01:32:18 PM
Itīs a wonderful portrait!! Please, if anyone have the full portrait in colour...it would be nice to see it here!!

By the way, Rani...I suppose you read easily german and you have read the book with the beautiful cover? I really wish to know more about the grand duchess, but I canīt find a bio wrotte in english or french, neither a translation to spanish  :-[
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 08, 2007, 02:41:50 PM
MarieCharlotte...Rani...youīre the best!! Have you got more wonderful portraits of young Sophie? She was a very pretty girl, I think. Now I can understand why the people gossiped about her relationships with Gustav Wasa or Franz duke of Reichstadtt ;) It seems a great mistake to marry such a beautiful and energetic princess with the gentle but not very bright Franz Karl ;)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 08, 2007, 03:57:35 PM
Anyone has a portrait of Franz Karl when he was a young husband?  ::)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on February 13, 2007, 06:05:44 AM
I have just found this picture:
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/180220Franz20Karl-2.jpg)

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/Menci_clemens_crncic.jpg) Franz Carl with his family

(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/Familie_Erzherzog_Franz_Carl_1836.jpg)

Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 13, 2007, 06:42:37 AM
Youīre very gentle, Rani! I like so much all the portraits of young Sophie. Almost all the people think about Sophie as the not fair mother in law of Sissi, so they never think Sophie was also a beautiful and energetic bavarian princess into the circle of the viennese court.
I wonder if anyone knows how deep were Sophieīs relationship with her parents and siblings. She was a daughter, a half-sister and a sister before and after her marriage with Franz Karl (by the way, he was not an ugly man, neither a patetic figure as poor Ferdinand...). Was Sophie fond of her father and mother? Was she close to her half-sisters and half-brothers? I wonder what she was thinking about her half-brother Ludwig I, and the other half-brother who married morganatically twice...
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 15, 2007, 04:26:06 AM
Sophie Friederike was very close to her parents and to her siblings. I have never had the impression that the children of Max I. made a real difference between siblings and half-siblings.

Sophie adored her mother Caroline. When she came to Vienna, she started to write very emotional letters to her beloved mother in which she informed Caroline about everything that happened at court and Vienna, but also about her own feelings, fears and opinions.These letters were much more initmate than Sophie's diaries she started to write after her mother's death in 1841.
Sophie was of course very close to her twin-sister Maria Anna, but she also wrote thousands of letters to her sisters. If you look at the sources in different books, you may find out that she wrote most of the letters to Auguste, Marie, Amalie and Ludovica. Maybe there hasn't been a historian yet who had a look at Queen Elise of Prussia's estate.
Sophie's relationship to her sister Charlotte - or Caroline Auguste - was a bit, let's say, tense. Charlotte was Empress of Austria which means she had the position Sophie had always longed for. After Emperor Franz I.'s death, Charlotte still lived with the imperial family and was quite popular with the Austrians and also at court. Sophie seemed to be a bit jelous and didn't want her (half-) sister to have such a strong position at court and even in family life. Charlotte realized that and retired. But this doesn't mean that they didn't get along well with each other. If you read the diary or the letters of young Franz Joseph you can see that he spent a lot of time with his "Großmama". Sometimes he even called her "Tante Großmama" (= aunt grandma).

When Ludwig I., who prefered his real siblings Auguste, Charlotte and Carl Theodor, had the well-known love affair to Lola Montez, Sophie was shocked and was also afraid that her brother would lose his throne (which later really happend).
Prince Carl was the favourite brother of almost every daughter of Max I. Especially Ludovica loved him a lot. Carl once said that there is a difference between his private and his public life. In his opinion it was nobody's business to know with whom he was in love. So Carl's morganatic marriages weren't that important. Sophie often met him at Tegernsee when she had already been married.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 15, 2007, 05:46:28 AM
I donīt remember where, but I believe it was in "Reluctant Empress" by Hammann, I have read that Sophie suffered a lot when she was a young and charming princess and she knew she was to marry Franz Karl. Her old nanny was so worried, cause Sophie was in deep sorrow and crying all the nights. So, the old nanny, who really loved tenderly the princess, tried to find support for the young Sophie speaking with queen Karoline. But Karoline said nothing but "What do you want?The entire issue was a choice made by the Congress of Vienna!" (Iīm not quoting exactly, but working from memory...).

When Sophie realized there was not a way out from the engagedment with Franz Karl, the poor little thing was strong enough to say: "Iīm determined to be happy...and I will be".

This purely emotional reaction from Sophie always shocked me. She grew up knowing well her duty as a princess. And Franz Karl was not a ugly man; he had a simple mind and he had not character, but he was a gentle prince. Above all, he was the son of an emperor and also a pressumptive heir of his elder brother, the epilectic and mental retarded Ferdinand. I can understand Ludovica suffered a lot because she was in love with prince Miguel of Portugal and she was forced into a marriage with a cousin, Max, who frankly told her he has in love with a common woman and he was to marry her following the orders of his father, Duke Pius. But Sophie was not in love with anyone...
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 15, 2007, 06:31:33 AM
I can understand Ludovica suffered a lot because she was in love with prince Miguel of Portugal and she was forced into a marriage with a cousin, Max, who frankly told her he has in love with a common woman and he was to marry her following the orders of his father, Duke Pius. But Sophie was not in love with anyone...

King Max and Duke Wilhelm, Maximilian's grandfather, decided that Max and Ludovica had to marry. Pius didn't care much about his son and, above all, he didn't have to decide anything concerning his son Max who was educated in Munich where the king, who was his godfather, looked after him.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 15, 2007, 06:48:19 AM
Thanks, Marie! I was working from memory, as I said, and memory is so frail (add to this that I have not the impressive knowledge about the Wittelsbach that you have ;) ).

But, thinking on this, I can understand Ludovicaīs pain, but itīs quite strange to me the emotial reaction of Sophie against her engagedment to Franz Karl.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: ilyala on February 16, 2007, 01:40:43 AM
Thanks, Marie! I was working from memory, as I said, and memory is so frail (add to this that I have not the impressive knowledge about the Wittelsbach that you have ;) ).

But, thinking on this, I can understand Ludovicaīs pain, but itīs quite strange to me the emotial reaction of Sophie against her engagedment to Franz Karl.

maybe it was the reaction of an intelligent woman knowing she was going to marry a 'simple' man, someone who would never understand her. maybe inside she dreamt she'd meet her prince someday and she knew franz karl wasn't it.

i for one would cry to be forced into a marriage i don't want. no matter how gentle the man is, if i don't love him it's torture.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 16, 2007, 02:44:31 AM
At the Bavarian court, the young princesses weren't allowed to read books containing love stories. In King Max I.'s opinion his daughters would start dreaming about a perfect man and a great love while reading this. But as they would have to take the husband they were given by their father, they shouldn't have any illusions about love.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on February 16, 2007, 02:50:33 AM
At the Bavarian court, the young princesses weren't allowed to read books containing love stories. In King Max I.'s opinion his daughters would start dreaming about a perfect man and a great love while reading this. But as they would have to take the husband they were given by their father, they shouldn't have any illusions about love.

But...the young ones didnīt need  these books to know well that some princesses really had found love stories ;) I imagine that Sophie knew about the romantic relationship between her older sister the duchess of Leuchtenberg and Eugene, for example...
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 16, 2007, 02:55:27 AM
But...the young ones didnīt need  these books to know well that some princesses really had found love stories ;) I imagine that Sophie knew about the romantic relationship between her older sister the duchess of Leuchtenberg and Eugene, for example...

Of course she knew about the harmonious relationship between Auguste and Eugčne. But this marriage was nothing but Napoléon's wish. So it was just a happy coincidence that the couple came along so well with each other.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on February 18, 2007, 01:15:19 PM
Sophie was indeed a beautiful young woman when she was a teenager.

I don't know much about her, i''ll get only Elisabeth (Sissi)'s point of view most of the time (I found Elisabeth to be a nasty lady!) and i don't think Sophie was nasty, possibly head-strong and trying to do the best for her son and family, but not snobby like Sissi. For like I said before that I don't know that much about Sophie. so i can't judge her.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Veronika on March 13, 2007, 04:03:34 AM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6d/Sophie.jpg/390px-Sophie.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: britt.25 on March 13, 2007, 05:33:46 AM
Archduke Franz Karl as young man (he wasnīt bad looking, I think ;) but in the older years his face became a bit strange and longish...


(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g81/7f3/S0410.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: ilyala on March 13, 2007, 07:59:04 AM
...he was probably a typical habsburg. they weren't very good looking
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: britt.25 on March 13, 2007, 10:04:01 AM
I think itīs mostly because of the close family relationship. For example was the second wife of emperor Franz II./ I., Maria Theresia of Neaples, Franzīs cousin, a daughter of Maria Karoline, daughter of empress Maria Theresia, whereas Franz was the son of Maria Theresiaīs son emperor Leopold II. (only one example). But it is strange that there are always examples, where single members of the family do not have this typical "Habsburg face" (or at least not so strongly, I remember especially the daughters of Philipp II. by Elisabeth Valois, but there are also other cases) but in general that looking passed so many generations. But in my view Franz Karlīs looking was not that longish like that of his brother Ferdinand, he was even much worse in looking. When Ferdinand was young there are quite nice paitings, but when I once saw a late photography of him I was really shocked :o. When you look at the children of Franz Karl and Sophie is obvious that all look somewhere different, but Ludwig Victor is mostly "Hapsburg" of all (and Maximilian of Mexico also a bit), but Franz Josephīs features are better, they may also come from his Wittelsbach side?! Even when I donīt see any direct resemblence to his mother, Archduchess Sophie.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 13, 2007, 11:42:25 AM
If you look at the longish faces of Emperor Franz and his second wife Maria Teresa of Naples, it is not surprising that also most of their children had unbelievable longish faces - but there are different extents among the siblings. For example Ferdinand (but he was disabled!) and Maria Anna had extremely longish faces, but Marie Louise and Clémentine had "normal" ones and were quite beautiful.

I've once seen a portrait of Archduke Franz Karl when he was a little boy of about 5 years. He looked so ugly and his face was that longish! When I read in books about the time of the engagement of Sophie and Franz Karl, the Archduke has always been described as not good looking and having a longish face. Maybe the painters shortened it a bit in their portraits to please him, but above all the Emperor.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: britt.25 on March 13, 2007, 12:43:06 PM
Well, the Kniehuber portrait(s) make(s) him quite "good" looking in my opinion, but maybe itīs a bit idealized? On Kniehuber -litographies I find almost all people quite allright in their looks...I must say...In my opinion Ferdinand I. was the worst concerning looks. The photo I once saw was really shocking. (I think it was in a book about Metternich) Do you know by which artist the portrait of Archduke Franz Karl as a child, which you mentioned, was made? Sometimes it really depends on the portraits/artists, how the people look like, but itīs easy to imagine that he looked a bit strange, and was not very nice! Yes, Empress Marie Louise was really quite beautiful, if you compare her with other realtives, also some of her uncles had an extreme "Hapsburg- face" (Karl of Teschen etc., whose sons were a lot like that as well even if Henriette of Nassau looked completely different...)
Too much off- topic, I think, sorry :-\
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 14, 2007, 07:51:57 AM
Do you know by which artist the portrait of Archduke Franz Karl as a child, which you mentioned, was made?

I'm sorry. I saw it some months ago at the Hofmobiliendepot at Vienna, but I don't know the artist.

(Let's do a little bit more off-topic here:  ;) In my opinion the only son of Archduchess Maria Christine, King Alfonso XIII. of Spain, also had a "Habsburg-face". He was a descendant of Archduke Karl, too.)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: britt.25 on March 14, 2007, 01:57:31 PM
Interesting that it was in the Hofmobiliendepot!!!  ;) I am still curious about that, because I didnīt have the chance to see that museum until now :)
Yes, I also think Alfonso has strongly that typical kind of face inheritated from his motherīs side. But itīs interesting that his uncle Archduke Friedrich doesnīt look like that at all (in my view!), but as we said his sisterīs son, and also Friedrichīs son, Albrecht has typical Hapsburg features, very longish face etc. Itīs really interested how this looking is distributed differently among close family members. Do you think that any of Archduchess Sophieīs children share her look? I rather think they resemble their father Archduke Franz Karl, donīt they? It would have been interesting to know about Archduchess Maria Annaīs look, when older, but unfortunately he died so early and was the only daughter of Sophie. Itīs a pity about her. But itīs also interesting to me that Franz Joseph I and his wife Elisabeth, who were related over the Wittelsbach side, had certain resemblences in their looks, even when I donīt see special resemblences of Franz Joseph I. to his mother... What do you think about that?
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Silja on March 15, 2007, 12:07:19 PM
even when I donīt see special resemblences of Franz Joseph I. to his mother... What do you think about that?

Looking at photographs, I actually do think he  resembles her.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: britt.25 on March 16, 2007, 07:06:15 AM
Itīs interesting that you see it differently. I always saw much more "Habsburg" than "Wittelsbach" in the children of Archduchess Sophie. But maybe I am wrong concerning Franz Joseph I. Especially on a photography of the old Archduke Franz Karl  I saw a lot of his son in him! Can you name an example, where Franz Joseph resembles his mother?
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on September 20, 2008, 03:28:42 PM
(http://i37.tinypic.com/1qkh7l.jpg)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/2e31pp5.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Princess Susan on September 21, 2008, 02:46:35 AM
Thank you for wonderful pictures Rani. On the first one is Sophie with her twin Marie, isn't she?
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yseult on September 21, 2008, 05:04:35 AM

And another one...

(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll205/EnaBatt/SophieofBayernarchduchessAustriaasa.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Stefan22 on September 21, 2008, 06:48:36 AM
Interesting that it was in the Hofmobiliendepot!!!  ;) I am still curious about that, because I didnīt have the chance to see that museum until now :)
Yes, I also think Alfonso has strongly that typical kind of face inheritated from his motherīs side. But itīs interesting that his uncle Archduke Friedrich doesnīt look like that at all (in my view!), but as we said his sisterīs son, and also Friedrichīs son, Albrecht has typical Hapsburg features, very longish face etc. Itīs really interested how this looking is distributed differently among close family members. Do you think that any of Archduchess Sophieīs children share her look? I rather think they resemble their father Archduke Franz Karl, donīt they? It would have been interesting to know about Archduchess Maria Annaīs look, when older, but unfortunately he died so early and was the only daughter of Sophie. Itīs a pity about her. But itīs also interesting to me that Franz Joseph I and his wife Elisabeth, who were related over the Wittelsbach side, had certain resemblences in their looks, even when I donīt see special resemblences of Franz Joseph I. to his mother... What do you think about that?

I think the problem was that also Franz I./II. mother Maria Luise of Spain and Maria Theresa's father where siblings and those Franz I./II. and Maria Theresa where 2twice Cousins.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on September 22, 2008, 03:35:19 PM
I think the problem was that also Franz I./II. mother Maria Luise of Spain and Maria Theresa's father where siblings and those Franz I./II. and Maria Theresa where 2twice Cousins.

Not to forget: Franz I.'s father Leopold II. and Maria Theresia's mother Maria Karoline were siblings, too.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Luc on December 17, 2008, 12:33:01 PM
I thought it would probably be worth discussing about Sophie's relationship to especially her younger sister the Duchess Ludovika in Bavaria and her other sisters: her twin sister Queen Maria Anna of Saxony, Amalie and Queen Elisabeth of Prussia.
I look forward to your replies !
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on January 10, 2009, 11:46:16 AM
What a beautiful woman she was.... fascinating.... but a pity she didn't like Sissi...
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Silja on January 25, 2009, 11:58:34 AM
What a beautiful woman she was.... fascinating.... but a pity she didn't like Sissi...

It's rather that Sisi didn't like her.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on January 25, 2009, 01:02:38 PM
Yes.....but Sophie controled Elisabeth....
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Silja on January 25, 2009, 02:05:56 PM
Yes.....but Sophie controled Elisabeth....

This is certainly true - up to the point when Elisabeth would no longer let herself  be controlled by anyone.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on January 25, 2009, 02:58:20 PM
Indeed and thats why she and Sophie Gisela and Franz went to Hungary..... if i'm correct
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 25, 2009, 05:46:07 PM
Sophie and Sissi were both strong well women. their relationship is like that of Minny and Alix of Russia in many ways.

 And other royal ladies and mother-in-laws in that type of relationship? I can't really think of any.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Greenowl on January 25, 2009, 06:16:49 PM
I don't think that Archduchess Sophie actually disliked Elisabeth, at least not at the beginning. As I understand it, she considered her niece/daughter-in-law too immature and poorly educated for the position of Empress and decided to try to help her to live up to the strict Habsburg court etiquette. Sophie probably thought that she was being kind to Elisabeth, but needless to say, Elisabeth saw things differently and began to resent and hate her aunt/mother-in-law, thus their relationship deteriorated pretty quickly. While the situation was clearly unpleasant for Elisabeth, I don't think that there was initially any deliberate malice or unkindness on the part of the Archduchess. Just my humble opinion!
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 25, 2009, 07:09:24 PM
I agree with you 100%.  :)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Royal Bulgaria on January 25, 2009, 10:31:06 PM
Very possible yes but we can't know for sure.... :-\
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Silja on February 01, 2009, 12:13:37 PM
I don't think that Archduchess Sophie actually disliked Elisabeth, at least not at the beginning. As I understand it, she considered her niece/daughter-in-law too immature and poorly educated for the position of Empress and decided to try to help her to live up to the strict Habsburg court etiquette. Sophie probably thought that she was being kind to Elisabeth, but needless to say, Elisabeth saw things differently and began to resent and hate her aunt/mother-in-law, thus their relationship deteriorated pretty quickly. While the situation was clearly unpleasant for Elisabeth, I don't think that there was initially any deliberate malice or unkindness on the part of the Archduchess. Just my humble opinion!

Precisely. Well summed up. In fact there's no evidence Sophie ever disliked Elisabeth.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Paola on February 02, 2009, 08:11:40 AM
And how was the relationship of Sophie to her daughters in law, like Charlotte, and the first two  wives of Karl Ludwig, Margaretha and Annunciata? I always had the impression Sophie had a better relationship and prefered Charlotte to Elisabeth.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Princess Susan on February 03, 2009, 02:25:55 AM
I think, she had good relationship with her daughters in law, especially with Charlotte. But I don't think, that she prefere Charlotte to Elisabeth. Although she definitely got on better with her, because Elisabeth was too independent personality and did't bear, when Sopie maddled in her affairs and gave her advices.
But she always wrote about Sisi  in her diaries and letters very nicely...
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Paola on February 03, 2009, 03:08:44 AM
I always thought she was specially fond of Charlotte because her character suited more to Sophie. Charlotte was better prepared for court life and wife of Sophie's favorite son Maximilian.  I think to her niece Margaretha , first wife of Karl Ludwig ,  she got along very well and could be that she helped arranged this marriage together with her sister Amalie, Queen of Saxony. And to Annunciata?
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on March 06, 2009, 03:08:08 PM
(http://i44.tinypic.com/73jyxk.jpg)

Franz Carl
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on April 30, 2009, 08:07:09 PM
(Excuse me if these images have been posted before)
The Archduchess and Franz Joseph

(http://imagecache5.art.com/p/LRG/13/1353/NSYS000Z/j-stiegler-archduchess-sophia-of-austria-1805-72-with-her-two-year-old-son-franz-joseph-1830-1916.jpg)

As an old woman

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Princess_sophie_of_bavaria_1866.jpg/180px-Princess_sophie_of_bavaria_1866.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: MarieCharlotte on May 04, 2009, 04:47:47 AM
I always thought she was specially fond of Charlotte because her character suited more to Sophie. Charlotte was better prepared for court life and wife of Sophie's favorite son Maximilian.  I think to her niece Margaretha , first wife of Karl Ludwig ,  she got along very well and could be that she helped arranged this marriage together with her sister Amalie, Queen of Saxony. And to Annunciata?

Archduchess Sophie was quite close to Archduchess Marie Caroline, called "Marie Rainer". Her husband was one of the most conservative and most influential members of the family. Marie was the only sister of Maria Theresia (former) Queen of the Two Sicilies. That's why Sophie asked Marie to contact her sister and to talk to her about a possible marriage of her widowed son Carl Ludwig and Therese's eldest daughter Maria Annunziata. So Carl Ludwig's second marriage was arranged by family members, but as you can see in some letters of the Archduke, he was deeply in love after he had met Annunziata for the very first time.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Madame-Sisi on August 29, 2009, 04:29:52 PM
some pics of her..
sorry if their already placed.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/Princess_Sophie_of_Bavaria.jpg)
(http://www.deutsche-schutzgebiete.de/webpages/Familie_Erzherzog_Franz_Carl_1836.jpg)
(http://www.planet-vienna.com/habsburger/bios/sophie/sophie__.jpg)
(http://www.pfarrealtlerchenfeld.at/Pictures/sophienspital/sophie.jpg)
(http://www.kaisergruft.at/kaisergruft/images/franzkarl.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/d/d5/1805_Sophie.JPG)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Sophie_of_Bavaria_archiduchesse_Austria.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/ca/Princess_sophie_of_bavaria_1866.jpg/386px-Princess_sophie_of_bavaria_1866.jpg)
With her sisters marie and ludovica:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0c/Ludovica_marie_sophie.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 07, 2009, 11:11:00 AM
Have you ever seen one wich you can see the Archduchess Sophie (young) with little Franz Joseph and Maximilian?
I saw it on a program about Maximilian but I couldn't find it, please if you find it ... Can you post it?
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 06, 2010, 02:34:07 PM


Here a huge picture courtesy of the ONB of Sophie and her sister Maria Anna.

(http://i47.tinypic.com/i1xxyo.jpg)

Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 15, 2010, 01:50:36 PM
Franz Karl

(http://i40.tinypic.com/21llaat.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on April 02, 2010, 12:00:45 PM
(http://i39.tinypic.com/x0sj0o.jpg)

Sophie and Franz, by Emanuel Peter (1799 - 1873)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on April 05, 2010, 03:18:57 PM
Sorry, I haven't been able to see the pics posted on the replies #59 and #60, can you add a link
I saw the next painting the last thursday and I wondered if she was the archduchess Sophie, sorry for the quality, was really difficult for me to take the photo :-S
Archduchess Sophie? (http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Palace/ArchiduquesaSofia.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Veronica on April 05, 2010, 04:59:43 PM
It does look like her. Where is the portrait located?
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 06, 2010, 07:42:22 AM
it doesnt look like her to me. Well at least of what im used to see of her in portraits with much softer and sweeter features.I could be wrong,...
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on April 06, 2010, 03:34:38 PM
It does look like her. Where is the portrait located?
At Chapultepec Palace in Mexico. It was in one room that belonged to Maximilian and Charlotte, there was another portrait of a man that looked for me like Franz Karl, it sounded me logical that the Emperor had the portraits of his parents. In my opinion she's the Archduchess, really I don't know
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 22, 2010, 08:41:18 AM
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2d98jd1.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 03, 2010, 03:15:21 PM

Posted before but now in color (Sophie and her family)
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Queens/11.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 05, 2010, 02:24:05 PM
Lovely and young Sophie
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/Queens/SofiaBavaria.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on August 10, 2010, 10:43:38 AM
Fran Karl

http://www.bildarchivaustria.at/Pages/ImageDetail.aspx?p_iBildID=10052528

cute
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 10, 2010, 03:36:49 PM
Lovely portrait Rani!
Here other of the Archduke
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Queens/FK.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 22, 2010, 09:43:42 AM
Posted before  but this one is much much better in quality

(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/682/imagelarge8.jpg) (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/imagelarge8.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 24, 2010, 10:11:41 AM
It must be on a museum at Austria... it's one of the best paitings of her in mature age that I've ever seen XD
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on January 01, 2011, 09:27:49 PM
(http://text.habsburger.net/module/im-schatten-einer-starken-frau-erzherzog-franz-karl/im-schatten-einer-starken-frau-erzherzog-franz-karl/MB-ST_D6-MOD5-01.png/image_large)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 03, 2011, 09:32:51 AM
(http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6135/00210185.jpg) (http://img510.imageshack.us/i/00210185.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Marc on January 26, 2011, 09:28:33 AM
Beladona found for you a picture of Franz Karl...

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/FrKarl.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Zukunftsseele on May 07, 2011, 12:32:59 PM
I am not sure where I shoul post this pic but just in case. :)

Archduchess Sophie and her spouse Franz Karl

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Bee/Germany/sopfkarl.jpg)

This is one of the most beautiful portraits I have seen about her respectively the couple. Thanks for posting, Svetabel.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on May 23, 2011, 01:12:41 PM
Found this on the site Dorotheum as Archduchess Sophie
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/0364a0e409.jpg)

Drawing of her
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/AncientRoyalty/erzherzogin_sophie_von_bayern_militaermaler_schindler_650px.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on May 23, 2011, 01:51:05 PM
Found this as Archduchess Sophie, 1844
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Empresses/picture.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 24, 2011, 07:29:20 AM
I like this one. Posted before but this one is bigger and unmarked

(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/7371/0249.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/0249.jpg/)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: THERRY on May 25, 2011, 02:13:32 AM
You are right,Thank You for posting, Never seen so big  ::)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Rani on June 03, 2011, 10:51:00 AM
(http://i1219.photobucket.com/albums/dd434/FuerstinTaxis/fk.jpg)

Rudolf Hausleithner
Erzherzog Franz Karl im Prater, 1876
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 05, 2011, 09:52:08 AM
By Stieler

(http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/189/bystieler.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 18, 2012, 03:17:45 PM
Found this as Archduchess Sophie by Winterhalter, honestly I have my doubts if it was really made by Winterhalter -or if the lady portrayed is really the Archduchess!!- :-? I'm very sorry for the small size of it
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Old%20Days/SophieWinterhalter.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 19, 2012, 06:31:40 PM
The Austrian Imperial family at 1826, it uncluded the next caption: "Family portrait of the imperial family around the Duke of Reichstadt (1826, Leopold Fertbauer). From left to right: Caroline Augusta of Bavaria, Empress of Austria; Francis I, Emperor of Austria; Napoleon II of France, Duke of Reichstadt; Princess Sophie of Bavaria, Archduchess of Austria; Marie-Louise of Austria, Duchess of Parma; Ferdinand I of Austria; and Archduke Franz Karl of Austria" but in my opinion the lady in white looks very old for being Sophie, she looks more likely to be Reichstadt's mother and Sophie must be the younger lady in dark dress.

(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/Kaiserhaus_1826.jpg)

Click here for bigger!! (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/Kaiserhaus_1826.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 02, 2012, 03:11:47 PM
The Archduchess Sophie with her eldest son FJ -still Archduke- and his tutors
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/sofiaArchAustr.jpg)

Click here for bigger!! (http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/DarlingSissi/sofiaArchAustr.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on August 03, 2012, 12:46:19 PM
Lovely portrait of a mature Archduchess

Click here!!! (http://www.bridgemanart.com/asset/82037/Breidwiser-or-Breitwieser-Theodor-1844-1930/Portrait-of-the-Archduchess-Sophia-of-Austria-180?search_context=%7B%22url%22%3A%22%5C%2Fsearch%5C%2Flocation%5C%2FLobkowicz-Collections-Nelahozeves-Castle-Czech-Republic%5C%2F2997%22%2C%22num_results%22%3A%2267%22%2C%22search_type%22%3A%22location_assets%22%2C%22sort_order%22%3A%22asset_id%22%2C%22location_id%22%3A%222997%22%2C%22item_index%22%3A30%7D)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 27, 2013, 01:48:53 PM
Found it at facebook labeled as  the mother of emperor Franz Joseph and other people

(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/DarlingCharlotte/ArchduchessSophie_zps18e6c06d.jpg) (http://s686.photobucket.com/user/KaiserinAlzbeta/media/DarlingCharlotte/ArchduchessSophie_zps18e6c06d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Princess Susan on July 07, 2013, 04:16:43 AM
I've seen this picture in one book before, but never so large and in such good quality. Thanks for posting it! ;-)
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Ajimmo on November 11, 2013, 02:29:51 PM
Itīs a wonderful portrait!! Please, if anyone have the full portrait in colour...it would be nice to see it here!!

By the way, Rani...I suppose you read easily german and you have read the book with the beautiful cover? I really wish to know more about the grand duchess, but I canīt find a bio wrotte in english or french, neither a translation to spanish  :-[

There is a book on the work of Winterhalter who was active at the same time, perhaps a little later.  There may be a portrait such as you seek in the work of Winterhalter.  There was also not too long ago an exposition at the Musée Galliera in Paris of clothing of the era of Sisi, with a mannequin wearing an example of one of her(Sisi's) grandes tenues of mounring, complete with face mask.  Very impressive.
 
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on July 30, 2014, 12:42:41 PM
The first time I see the full verssion of this beautiful lithography of the Archduchess.

By Josef Kriehuber, 1850.

(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Darling%20Sissi/Erzherzogin_Sophie_Litho_zps9f907e09.jpg) (http://s686.photobucket.com/user/KaiserinAlzbeta/media/Darling%20Sissi/Erzherzogin_Sophie_Litho_zps9f907e09.jpg.html)

<<Click on the image for bigger>>
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 03, 2015, 03:05:06 PM
The Archduchess in her deathbed <<Click on the image for bigger>>

(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Darling%20Sissi/deathbed_zpszobwwo2p.jpg) (http://s686.photobucket.com/user/KaiserinAlzbeta/media/Darling%20Sissi/deathbed_zpszobwwo2p.jpg.html)

Credits on the image.
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on January 06, 2016, 01:50:48 PM
The deathbed of Archduchess Sophie and Austrian Imperial family sorrounding it

(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/ErzsiMarie/suegrasissi_zpsndrcgtax.jpg) (http://s601.photobucket.com/user/KaiserinCharlotte/media/ErzsiMarie/suegrasissi_zpsndrcgtax.jpg.html)

Taken from: http://alzbeta-sisi.blog.cz/
Title: Re: Archduchess Sophie,mother of Franz Josef
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 29, 2017, 03:33:14 PM
By Joseph Kriehuber, 1849. In color. (https://68.media.tumblr.com/6ee0d1d2f0b79520a64651138c9f4751/tumblr_owyi3s23TK1v1oo6no1_1280.jpg)

Illustration (https://68.media.tumblr.com/6145d0d336f426115bbf276e700140cd/tumblr_owyibjSkUV1v1oo6no1_1280.jpg)