Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => French Royals => Topic started by: polignac on February 10, 2006, 01:47:04 PM

Title: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 10, 2006, 01:47:04 PM
hey..i'm very curious about Yolande Polignac's life... ???

and i've got a question: was she a countess or a duchess?..

can everyone post some Yolande photos?

thanks**
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 10, 2006, 04:21:02 PM
Yolande Martine Gabrielle de Polastron wwas married to Count Jules de Polignac later duc...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 10, 2006, 04:24:55 PM
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/058.jpg)

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/VLBpolignac.jpg)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 10, 2006, 04:28:36 PM
Her son

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/Cdefries.jpg)

Her daugther the duchess de Guiche called "Guichette"

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/guicheb.jpg)

A charming little thing!!! ;D
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 10, 2006, 04:32:41 PM
La duchesse de Guiche!

(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/kedvesem/VLBdeguiche.jpg)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 11, 2006, 07:26:25 AM
she died in 1793, contracted cancer while living in Switzerland or in Vienna?  :-/
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 11, 2006, 07:29:22 AM
Yolande Martine Gabrielle de Polastron married Jules de Polignac, who was a count. She had a quiet life in Braye, somewhere in the country. Her sister in law, Diane de Polignac, asked her to come to the court. She did. Marie-Antoinette immediately felt attracted to her, because of her sweetness and modesty. She asked her why she came so rarily to Versailles.

So, Yolande (or Gabrielle, or even Martine, impossible to know ! But I prefer Gabrielle) became a friend of the Queen. It was difficult for her, because, even if countess of very old nobility, she had no money. Furthermore, many people, spying Marie-Antoinette's actions, were jealous of Gabrielle's sudden favour. And they were intriging... more and more...

They became closer. But Gabrielle was still poor, and inviting such an important character as the Queen in her salon was dispendious. So, Antoinette gave her husband a charge, and then another, and also other members of the family. Considering Gabrielle's children hers by adoption, she gave a huge amount of money while Guichette married... Guichette who as 13, I think...

Almost all the historians say Gabrielle de Polignac was a disgusting intrigant who profited from poor Queen's friendship. I don't think so. I think Madame de Polignac was as damaged by the revolution propaganda as Marie-Antoinette herself.

I believe Gabrielle didn't ask for favours, and never for herself. Maybe Diane was the intrigant greedy behind the curtain... Or Vaudreuil, Gabrielle's lover or friend.
And Antoinette was so generous ! When she loved someone, she took the whole family ! She would love Fersen's father and sister too ! She helped Madame de Lamballe's brother.

In order to give her a "tabouret", and to have her closer to her royal person, Marie-Antoinette made Madame de Polignac duchess. Having lost her governess, Guéméné, for bankrupt and scandal reasons, she chose Gabrielle for raising her children. So many witnesses said she did so because she knew that, Gabrielle being lazy, she would raise her children alone, so many that Gabrielle intrigued to have that job too, and so much more money... I don't believe that ! I believe that Marie-Antoinette chose her most tender friend, a person she relyed on, a sweet heart who had children too, for this charge. And that they just went on raising their children together in the little trianon paradise.

After the necklace affair, Gabrielle left the court for a while. People say it was because of political arguments between her august friend and her. And witnesses, with a smile, said that her favour was fading away...
Well... actually, it's not impossible that Gabrielle, who went to England, was sent to negociate with Lamotte for having those horrible memoirs destroyed.

She came back to France, so close to her Queen again... and to the King, too, for we to often forget to say that Gabrielle was also a friend of Louis, who often wrote to her and relieved his heart.
Then, the mob burned an image of Gabrielle, and Antoinette, fearing for her beloved friend, asked her to leave Versailles. Madame Campan said that Gabrielle refused, for long, that she praised... kneeling on the floor, burst in tears. The King appeared, and commanded the whole family to leave. So, the Polignac ran away in the middle of the night, desguised.

They stayed in Swiss, in Turin... finally, in Vienna. Antoinette followed her friend in her mind and wrote wonderful letters, full of tenderness and regrets. We only have a few of this correspondence, and all of Madame de Polignac's letters disappeared. Marie-Antoinette used to burned her papers up.
But, even if surrounded by her loving family, Gabrielle got ill, and sicker and sicker. She heard that the King of France, her friend, had been executed, and she fell into a despair that would never leave her. On the day after Marie-Antoinette's death, October 17th 1793, all the churches of Vienna tolled the knell (there were, somewhere, people in mourning for this poor martyr, while France was shouting from joy...). Friends told Madame de Polignac that her friend was dead from an illness, not daring to speak the awful truth. Gabrielle said  that now, she could die.
She died on December 9th, 1793, from pain and sorrow.

You see, dear Polignac, I'm interested in this fascinating character too, and I'd like, I'd really love, to redeem her damaged reputation. But, if it is difficult in the case of Antoinette, it is even more for her friend. There is so few documentation... If you know anything more, or have a book to recommend, please, tell me !

I hope we can exchange more on this person I admire so much...

cordialement,
coquelicot
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 11, 2006, 07:30:00 AM
Wasn't their a rumour that she was poisoned?  :-/ but most likely it was cancer accelerated by suffering.

According to her daughter when they told her of the execution of MA her face altered and "one could see death written there"  :(
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 11, 2006, 02:50:48 PM
i don't know nothing about that rumour..but it's not a stupid rumour...the french would like to poison Yolande de Polignac...but, by the other way, i think that at this time, France had other prioraties, like combating the austro-prussian army that was in the north of France, and killing every single resistance to the new governemnt...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 11, 2006, 02:53:42 PM
there are some refrences to Yolande in this sites..i think that it's the not real diary of madame campan, a lady in versailles court..

http://www.authorama.com/memoirs-of-marie-antoinette-9.html
http://www.authorama.com/memoirs-of-marie-antoinette-b-1.html

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 11, 2006, 07:29:03 PM
Madame Campan was one of the few persons who liked Duchess Jules...
I've never heard of this rumor neither... but about cancer and sorrow, yes. Sorrow can alas provoke cancers.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 12, 2006, 07:21:43 AM
is it possible to get pictures of Yolande's bedroom in Versailles?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 14, 2006, 01:22:43 PM
i've read that yolande leave france in 6th october 1789...i don't know if it's true, because my resource isn't secure...
do you know anything about the day of her escape?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 14, 2006, 03:53:33 PM
I don't know if it's possible to see her room. She had one in Trianon too.

I think it was on July 16th that she left, because the mob burned a personnage representing her, and the queen really feared for her. Gabrielle cryed so much, kneeling before her friend, in tears. The whole family had to leave in the middle of the night.

Marie-Antoinette left a note for her, saying how she was sad to let her so tender friend go... but, she wrote, it was necessary.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 14, 2006, 06:29:49 PM
She was known as Countess Jules de Polignac, because her friend thought that Yolande was not a pleasant name!!! and I agree!
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 15, 2006, 06:36:29 AM
Yes, they called her Jules, and the queen Antoine ! I'm not sure it's more pleasant !  ;D

Chantal Thomas chose "Gabrielle". It depends from the sources, actually, her surnames are given in one or another order.

And what about "Martine" ? People often used their second name.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 15, 2006, 08:32:47 AM
The queen was called madame Antoine when she was I think an Archduchess since she was called Antonia in the family. But when she got married she became Marie Antoinette, however she was called Antoinette! She signed Marie Antoinette but was called Antoinette!

  I read that also Marie Therese Charlotte was called Charlotte, and Louis Charles: "Charles"

 In the case of MA her contemporaries called her Antoinette! the people also called her like that.

  Even in the songs and Pamphlets:

"Quand Antoinette vit la tour
quand Antoinette vit la tour
elle voulut faire demi-tour
elle voulut faire demi-tour
elle avait mal au coeur
de se voir sans honneur"

 La Camargnole
(one of the French revolutionary songs).
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 15, 2006, 11:26:00 AM
[This lively repartee of the Duchesse de Polignac is a droll imitation of a line in the “Mercure Galant.”  In the quarrel scene one of the lawyers says to his brother quill: ’Ton pere etait aveugle et jouait du hautbois.’]

so..Yolande had a brother?..i know that she had a sister, Louise, how was the mistress of the count d'Artois...i thought that the family was only Yolande and Louise...did they had more brothers??  :-/ :-/
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 15, 2006, 11:51:52 AM
«The Great Fear

The storming of the Bastille greatly disturbed a number of nobles who knew the poverty of the common people and feared vengeance if royal power was inadequate to check mob impulses. Leading members of the royal court, including close friends of Marie Antoinette fled the country. These included in July and August the Count of Artois and MADAME POLIGNAC and in October her close friend and portraitist Vigee Lebrun.»

http://www.marie-antoinette.org/bioeng.php

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 15, 2006, 03:55:16 PM
Wasn't Louise de Polastron Madame de Polignac's sister in law ? I thought she was her brother's wife ?

Of course, Sissi, Madame Antoine was Marie-Antoinette's nickname in Vienna ! She must have lost it once in France. However, since it was a name she loved as a child, maybe, she could keep it in her most intime intimacy ? Why not, after all ?  8)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on February 15, 2006, 04:10:08 PM
Could be!  ;D she might have been fond of the name, and the good memories it brought to her!!! So yes it could be ;D
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 16, 2006, 01:45:34 PM
in wikipedia they say: «...Yolande's beautiful younger sister, Louise, became the life-long mistress of Louis XVI's youngest brother, Charles, Comte d'Artois (later Charles X)...»

but one thing is strange..i've read too that Yolande run away from france in july, but in http://www.authorama.com/memoirs-of-marie-antoinette-b-1.html it's saying that Yolande was present when the people of paris went to versailles, and obligate marie antoinette to come to the balcony...and it was in october... ???...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: lancashireladandre on February 16, 2006, 01:52:31 PM
Quote
I don't know if it's possible to see her room. She had one in Trianon too.

I think it was on July 16th that she left, because the mob burned a personnage representing her, and the queen really feared for her. Gabrielle cryed so much, kneeling before her friend, in tears. The whole family had to leave in the middle of the night.

Marie-Antoinette left a note for her, saying how she was sad to let her so tender friend go... but, she wrote, it was necessary.
It was July. The family were in the first wave of emigration.Marie Antoinette sent money for their travel expenses with the the farewell note.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 16, 2006, 02:08:28 PM
she proceeded well..if she stayed with the queen, i though that she would be one of the first revolution victims...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 16, 2006, 02:13:47 PM
and i understand that some people can think that she wouldn't run away, and leave marie antoinette..but, if you were Yolande, would you stay in versailles, knowing that you were hated by all the people?..
and i've read that louis xvi order to yolande to leave the country, for her own good...
i would make the same think...i would leave to the exile
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 16, 2006, 02:14:56 PM
That's was Marie-Antoinette believed, in any case... And I also think she was right. At least, she could save this one. Alas, for Madame de Lamballe, things were different !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 16, 2006, 05:12:54 PM
Yolande must had great propriety and money too..but, at this time, is it dificult to estimate her fortune?...there's so few resources about the duchesse..
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 17, 2006, 04:10:51 AM
I really really don't know, dear Polignac. I know the whole family benefited from the queen's affection for Gabrielle. Two very greedy people seem to have been Diane de Polignac (Gabrielle's sister in law) and Vaudreuil (Gabrielle's husband's friend and, no doubt, Gabrielle's lover). This last one was a Creole. He sounds very handsome on pictures... doesn't he ?  :D

(http://www.batguano.com/VLBvaudreuil.jpg)

Count and Countess de Polignac had a property in the country (Braie, I think), but they were poor. Count received a lucrative charge at the court, even more while make duke, and more and more when Gabrielle became governess.  ???

On her trial, Marie-Antoinette justified it by answering these people (meaning her favorites) had charges they had to be paid for. We can add that the privilege of being the queen's friend was very expensive. You don't receive Marie-Antoinette de Lorraine d'Autriche in your messy living-room ! In order to keep her friend on her side, Marie-Antoinette had to elevate her so that Madame de Polignac could reach her majesty.  :-/

It's well know that Gabrielle didn't enjoy representations nor all this train. She surely would had rather playing with her royal friends and children in Trianon gardens the all day long ! But, that's it... her friend was a royal !  :o

Aglaé (Guichette) received a huge amount of money when she got married to Guiche. It caused a scandal in the court. While made duchess, Madame de Polignac would obtain the "duché de Bitch". But this definitely was too much ! The Polignacs didn't get this !  8)

Now, was she an intrigant, wasn't she ? Most of Marie-Antoinette's biographies say she was the queen's bad genius. Fraser, for instance, is more cautious and, no doubt, more intelligent ! It's always the same, some one must be guilty ! If not the queen, let's try some one else as scapegoat !  >:(

Being an admirer of Marie-Antoinette, I can't believe she once chose a treater for her best friend. If, for so many years (from 1775 till... ), Gabrielle was her most tender friend, she must deverse it, musn't she ? Marie-Antoinette can't be that foolish ! She had no doubt about her friend's loyalty. So, I believe my queen rather than copists !

(http://www.batguano.com/polignac.jpg)

as candid as an angel...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 20, 2006, 07:06:51 AM
« When Mme de Polignac died in Vienna in 1793, he (vaudreuil) shed many a crocodile tear»

i think that the comte vaudreuil was only taking advantage with yolande's affair..i don't know if he loved her, but i don't think so.
it is also said and believed by some people that yolande's second son, Armand Jules, 2nd duc de Polignac, was Vaudreuil son, and not from count or the 1st duc de Polignac, Jules, Yolande's husband..


http://images.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http://www.batguano.com/VLBcaraman.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.batguano.com/catno14.html&h=565&w=443&sz=38&tbnid=1prEtMbqsLtnfM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=102&hl=pt-PT&start=18&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVaudreuil%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dpt-PT%26lr%3D
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 20, 2006, 01:46:44 PM
Where did you read this sentence, dear Polignac ? That's very interesting !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 20, 2006, 02:19:41 PM
i've read the sentence in http://images.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http://www.batguano.com/VLBcaraman.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.batguano.com/catno14.html&h=565&w=443&sz=38&tbnid=1prEtMbqsLtnfM:&tbnh=131&tbnw=102&hl=pt-PT&start=18&prev=/images%3Fq%3DVaudreuil%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dpt-PT%26lr


it's on the midle of the text...i don't know maney biographys of vaudreuil...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 21, 2006, 04:33:18 AM
Thanks, dear Polignac ! Interesting, indeed... the man seemed to have attractions for his cousins !  ;D

It's the biggest text I have ever read about Vaudreuil. I guess it's even worst than in Madame de Polignac's case : we have almost nothing...

In Marie-Antoinette's biographies, there're always several lines about him, never positive. He is depicted Madame de Polignac's bad genius, sometimes sharp and bad to her, and even insolent towards the queen.

Now... how far is this awful reputation true ? Some people wrote that, being very exclusive in her friendships, Marie-Antoinette was jealous of Vaudreuil being so close to Gabrielle... Well, they however played Beaumarchais together. And, some say his journey to England, with Gabrielle, was for negociating with Lamotte in the name of the queen.

What to think ? The Polignacs and Vaudreuil have been so hated it is really difficult to come to a conclusion...
Anyhow, my supreme reference being Marie-Antoinette, I'd say that I found many sweet words in her letter to Gabrielle. The queen kisses all Gabrielle's children, she sends her regards to her husband... not mentioning Vaudreuil. That could mean something...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 06:20:45 AM
i know that after the revolution, the kings, aristocracy and the church were very wronged...the people invented maney things about them.
never less, i think that Vaudreuil was only taking advantage about his relation with Yolande Polignac..in wikipedia, it's said that «It was generally believed at Versailles that Yolande's second child was actually fathered by her lover, the Comte de Vaudreuil.»...i would like if it could be true..

«When Calonne fell from grace, Vaudreuil's credit dried up. The Queen turned resolutely against him. On the brink of financial ruin, he was obliged to sell off his collections. », and «The queen disliked him (Turgot) for opposing the grant of favours to her proteges, and he had offended Mme. de Polignac in a similar manner.» and «He (Charles, comte d'Artois in exile) took the disastrous decision of appointing Calonne to his council, which outraged Marie Antoinette, who had never liked him. This was an end to Charles and Marie-Antoinette's deep friendship, and Charles was left wracked with guilt after her execution in 1793.»
so, Vaudreuil was a friend of Calonne and Turgot?..It is said that Calonne was disliked by the Queen..Turgot was also..It's possible that Vaudreuil fell in disfavour because his relations with "the enemies of the Queen"...Calonne was exiled, but, when the revolution began, he alisted himself in the prince of Conti army....At the end, Calonne was a a loyal royalist, only wanting the best of France...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 06:41:14 AM
however, i consider the comte de Vaudreuil (or vicomte, as i already saw?), an opportunist..he came from a noble family, but not from the aristocracy like the Conti's, the Condé's, the Orléans and the Rohan..We wasn't very powerfull..so, he came closer to one of most influential friends of the Queen, and he was made an important and much more richer person..in the french wikipedia it is said: «Vaudreuil reçoit 30 000 livres de rente annuelle», in english, i think (yes, because my french is awfull) it is saying that Vaudreuil recieved 30 000 livres of annual income..i don't have an idea about what is this some, but i've read somewhere that 100 livres corresponded to $700..but i think that it's not true...i even don't remember where ive read that.. ???
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 21, 2006, 07:25:07 AM
I don't think I can help you, Polignac... I have low interest in politics and in figures ! That's why I'm so happy with this european euro... it's easier when you travel !

Back to Vaudreuil, I think he was Gabrielle's friend or even lover before she became queen's favorite. Wasn't he ? Furthermore, he didn't need her help that much, being himsel very close to Count of Artois. There were so many jealous people in this court that it is difficult to find the truth.

Vaudreuil may father Gabrielle's last child. It's not impossible... But that may be gossips, too... Every child the queen had was supposed to have a different father, after all ! Except for the king, of course... because he was impotent ! People even wondered, when Madame de Polignac was pregnant, who's child this was, since Monsieur de Polignac was absent... Vaudreuil's ? Or Marie-Antoinette's ?

In such a witty golden cage, every stupidity was told and written !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 03:25:15 PM
ahahhahahahahaha...people thought that Yolande's sun was from the Queen.. :-X :-X

do you know the year that Yolande passed to Countess to Duchesse?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 03:31:09 PM
Yolande relation with the King was also good....asking if you think that Louis XVI was the father of Yolande sun is a very rumote chance isn't?... :P
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 21, 2006, 03:45:28 PM
I don't remember when she became duchess. It was first step. After, she was made governess. Duchess ? Round 1781/82, maybe ? It's in Lever's fictitious diary of Marie-Antoinette, but I don't have it right now, sorry...

Yes, the king liked Madame de Polignac very much. He was happy his wife has such a friend for quiet Gabrielle was always able to calm nervous Antoinette down. She had children, too, so, these two mothers could share the joy of raising their kids together. During revolution, he wrote nice letters to duchess de Polignac, he clearly relied on her and told her his worries and regrets.

I've read somewhere, too, that Gabrielle de Polignac could be the only woman, except for hers !, Louis XVI could be attracted to. I don't know if it true. She was considered a beauty at the court. Anyhow, I really don't think the king fathered her last son ! Actually, he had low interest in sex...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 04:26:45 PM
but it would be interesting if Louis and Yolande had an affair...but in my opinion, it's very rumoute..i don't believe that they had an affair..
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 05:13:31 PM
http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/texts/bl_gtstgermain.htm    at the "middle-end", it speaks about Yolande...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 21, 2006, 05:15:12 PM
Yolande married in 1767 Comte Jules de Polignac who was created Duc de Polognac in 1780. (http://worldroots.com/brigitte/royal/arti-p.htm)[/quote]
coquelicot, you was almost certain about the date..only one year...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 22, 2006, 03:24:14 AM
I would be a poor historian, dear Polignac... I focuse on people and stories, and I forget about dates and figures ! ::)

I've read so many things about this Count Saint-Germain, about Cagliostro and Mesmer, too. It seems such "magicians" were a rage at this time. Madame de Lamballe was a freemason (a very important grande maîtresse), she was cured by magnetisor Mesmer for her fragile nerves. Some people said Marie-Antoinette once attended a session, disguised, and even a masonic sitting !

(http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mairie-seine-port/06_Village/HistoireSeinePort/Livres/Personnages/Lamballe.jpg)

Princess de Lamballe

(http://bousculade.free.fr/img/histoire/La_Princesse_de_Lamballe_par_Callet.jpg )

again

I also read the queen had an interest in cards and tarots and predictions. What about Madame de Polignac ? I don't know... but it sounds esoterics was a fashion !

Let's drop Gabrielle having an affair with Louis XVI ! All I see about him being close to her is that he got along very well with his wife's friends. He liked and appreciated Fersen very much, too. So, Antoinette's friends were Louis' too !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 22, 2006, 01:20:55 PM
«Louis XVI, who was grateful for her calming influence on his wife. » «Yolande Polignac was a conservative aristocrat from the South of France»..so, i think that she isn't a freemanson..
even so, i don't know if it's true that she was so anti-liberal and ultra-conservative...the people exaggerates to get worse her image...she wasn't very religious.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0312337086/sr=8-2/qid=1140635858/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-0945578-8464851?%5Fencoding=UTF8

that book speaks a little about Yolande
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 22, 2006, 05:13:45 PM
but are any proofs that Yolande was conected with the freemansons?
...
Gosh i didn't know!..The first son of Yolande, Aglae, married when she was only 13 years old!!!  :o :o :o
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 23, 2006, 03:26:41 AM
Waow, Polignac ! So much information !
We have a discussion on this board about freemasonry, yet. Obviously, Gabrielle wasn't in, being too conservative.
Marie-Antoinette's other friend, Louise de Lamballe, was "grande maîtresse", being close to Philippe d'Orléans.

Now, you are asking the good question : was Gabrielle so conservative ? She and other Polignacs appreciated Calonne (another handsome guy :).

(http://www.mauritia.de/de/rokoko/calonne_t.jpg)

It seems Calonne had very reformative views in politics. And he was the Polignacs' champion... So what ?  :-/

It's true Aglaé had her first child so young ! But remember Antoinette was supposed to, being married 14 ! Fortunately, Louis was to gentle to rape her ! I really like Louis... nice guy !  ;)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 24, 2006, 03:00:47 PM
but was the princesse of Lamballe friend of Philippe d'Orléans??
The duchesse of Polignac and the Queen didn't..
i think that the duc d'Orléans voted death to the King, during the revolution.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 24, 2006, 03:01:54 PM
But was the princesse of Lamballe friend of Philippe d'Orléans?? The duchesse of Polignac and the Queen weren't..i think that the duc d'Orléans voted death to the King, during the revolution.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 25, 2006, 02:45:05 AM
Princess de Lamballe and Philippe d'Orléans were relatives, that's why. They also were both well known and important freemasons. When she came to the tuileries, Madame de Lamballe had problems because of it, she had to choose her side, you see. She chose her queen, of course !

Yes, this scoundrel voted death or his cousin ! They say poor Louis XVI was upset having heard this awful news.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 26, 2006, 08:03:06 AM
Do you know proprieties and châteaux where Yolande passed her time? Or did she only lived in Versailles?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on February 26, 2006, 08:04:55 AM
http://images.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http://www.artoftheprint.com/jpegimages/anonymous_duchesse_de_polignac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.artoftheprint.com/artistpages/anonymous_duchesse_de_polignac.htm&h=359&w=465&sz=64&tbnid=4pFhMzj_7Z5VwM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=125&hl=pt-PT&start=6&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dduchesse%2Bde%2Bpolignac%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dpt-PT%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

this painting was painted in honour of the duchesse Yolande Gabrielle de Polignac...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on February 26, 2006, 11:15:01 AM
Dear Polignac, thanks for this wonderful engraving ! Finally something made in honour of our duchess ! I didn't expect such things to even exist...

I know she had a property in Bray or something. The queen went there, and even stayed without her suite. The king too came and visited his friend Gabrielle. They say it's the only private house Louis XVI got in.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 01, 2006, 07:11:20 AM
The duchesse de Polignac third son, Jules, created prince in 1820, wasn't the older male son of the duchesse. Yolande had Armand, how was older than Jules...Before being created prince by the pope, Jules had any title?...his oldest brother was the 2nd duc de Polignac.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: frohsdorf on March 04, 2006, 09:39:54 AM
The Duchesse de  Polignac died in Vienna in December, 1793.  Does anyone know where she is buried?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 04, 2006, 04:09:20 PM
No idea, dear Frohsdorf... her epitaph says "died from sorrow", it's all I know. I didn't even go to Vienna yet, I'd like to, so much ! Surely I'll try to find Gabrielle's tumb, then...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 08, 2006, 12:03:09 PM
i'm also going to search about it, because it's very interesting...but i think that her body could only be sent to france after napolean's empire, during the restauration of Louis XVIII...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 08, 2006, 12:10:09 PM
Madame du Barry, the mistress of the death king Louis XV, was hated by Marie Antoinette and by most of her aristocratic friends...And by Madame du Polignac, was du Barry hated by Yolande?

Yolande wasn't, as du Barry, very religious, and she had expensives tastes...Both of the two aristocratic ladys have many things that are the same; they liked money, they liked luxury, and they liked "dangerous love"..
But, at the other way, Yolande, being a favorite of the Queen Marie Antoinette (with Lamballe), couldn't have a very friendly relationship with du Barry...Marie Antoinette wouldn't like it...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 08, 2006, 12:42:03 PM
That's the point, dear Polignac ! Many people wonder why Marie-Antoinette accused Barry of things she perfectly beared in Gabrielle's demaneor. Seems our queen had morals concerns in some cases, and not in others !  ;D

No doubt Marie-Antoinette didn't like Barry for others reasons, and morals was but a pretext.

Did Gabrielle like Barry ? When Antoinette had problems with the favorite, Gabrielle was not her best friend yet. Lamballe was. Surely she followed her queen...

Later, Marie-Antoinette got better along with Barry, and Barry even tried to help royals during the revolution.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 08, 2006, 03:14:08 PM
Like du Barry, Yolande had many loverous...but i only know Vaudreuil..Is there anymore people how was involved with the duchesse?
???
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on March 08, 2006, 03:31:08 PM
I only know about Vaudreuil too! :P
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 08, 2006, 05:04:16 PM
I think that the only Yolande's lover knowned is Vaudreuil...Altough, I thought that it would be interesting knowing more lovers of the duchesse Yolande Gabrielle de Polignac.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 08, 2006, 05:10:38 PM
http://www.worldroots.com/cgi-bin/gasteldb?@I20938@

in that site, it is said that the father of Yolande's husband, Jules, was born in 11 JAN 1716/17, and died on 1792...But it's strange, because, acording to the site, Jules, how was son of a marquis, haven't any brothers or sisters...The comtesse Diane, his sister, really existed..She brought Yolande to Versailles..
So, did he actualy had brothers?...

And other question about the marquis de Polignac...He died in 1792. Was he a revolution victim? It's possible, but, we can't forget that he was 76 years at that year..
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 09, 2006, 12:03:58 AM
Who said Gabrielle had many lovers ? Probably the same persons who said Marie-Antoinette had numerous ! She had Vaudreuil, it seems so. And maybe he was just a friend... some sources say so. However, even if she had one lover, is that so important ? I don't think wecould say she had a dissolute life.
By the way, just take a look at "Dangerous Liaisons". No woman loved her husband ! That would be ridiculous !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 09, 2006, 03:39:27 PM
I've loved "Dangerous Liaisons"...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on March 09, 2006, 04:29:44 PM
The book is really really really good, i have always imagined that it portrays mariage like in the XVIII century!
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 12, 2006, 11:00:35 AM
There's a few Yolande pictures, but she's alone in everyone of them...Do you know if there's a picture of Yolande with her husband or childs, or with Marie Antoinette?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 12, 2006, 11:42:19 AM
I think you're right, dear Polignac, there are only pics showing Gabrielle alone. However, there's a portrait by Vigée-Lebrun, where she can be with her daughter Guichette ? I'm not sure...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 13, 2006, 01:12:48 PM
Do you have that portait??
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 13, 2006, 01:37:45 PM
duchesse de guiche :

(http://www.batguano.com/VLBdeguiche.jpg )

melles guiche polignac (93-95)

(http://www.batguano.com/MllesGuichePolinac.jpg)

This is the one I had in mind. It was wrong, sorry. Must be Guichette's daughter ? I know she had a son... but a daughter ? Anyway, it's not Gabrielle, sorry...

Guichette (94)

(http://www.batguano.com/guiche.jpg )

... rom this site about Elisabeth Vigée-Lebrun http://www.batguano.com/vigee.html

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 18, 2006, 06:50:39 AM
Madame Polignac was known by the Queen as Yolande, Gabrielle, Martine, or Jules?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 19, 2006, 12:42:34 AM
This is precisely what I wonder about, dear Polignac ?
I have read that the court avoided "Yolande" because it sounded to medieval. The duchess was usely called "Jules" from her husband's name. She was the countess, and later, the duchess Jules.

On the net, you can find Y M G de Polastron or G M Y de Polastron, depending... Most of the historians call her Yolande, some others Gabrielle. Nobody Martine... They have our nowaday habit to use the firstname. However, it's wrong. XVIIIth people often used their second name, or even third.

To make it shorter, I guess she could be Gabrielle... or even Martine !

But all we can do know is ask the "oui-ja" and hope we won't fall upon Pazuzu !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 19, 2006, 09:33:08 AM
I remember we once spoke about Yolande's money...In wikipedia it is said that the Qeen once had donated her 800.000 livres, by the occasion of the wedding of Aglaé...I discoverd in wikipedia too that 100 livres were the same as 700 dolares...making the calculations, the Queen gave 5.600.000.000 dolares to Madame Polignac!!! It's  :o :o :o :o :o :o

"dote sa fille à hauteur de 800 000 livres," in http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yolande_de_Polastron

"Balconies in buildings above the Place de Grève were rented to women of the aristocracy for the exorbitant price of 100 livres per balcony (approx. $700 in 2005 US dollars)" in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_xv#First_try_at_reform

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 19, 2006, 09:42:05 AM
I discovered in wikipedia some information about Yolande's husband...but it's in french...
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_de_Polignac_%281746-1817%29

There isn't great information, but i didn't knew that count Jules had two sisters: Madame Diane and Madame Elizabeth..and a half-brother: Comte Heraclius

Acording to this site, Madame Diane de Polignac has born in the same year than Jules..So, they could be twins...

One question...The father of Jules was a vicomte, and this rank is lower than comte isn't it?...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 19, 2006, 09:47:07 AM
It's true Marie-Antoinette gave a very important sum or Aglaé (Guichette)'s wedding. But the king didn't disapprove that. The reason may be that Marie-Antoinette loved Guichette very much, and considered she was her daughter by adoption. The Polignacs weren't very rich at this time. Surely the queen wanted to have Aglaé forever out of troubles.

Paramount sums of money were exchanged, at the court, for jewels, clothes, castles, dinners and suppers, feasts...

This donation however shocked the court a lot, because this had never happened. A Polignac's daughter treated like a princess ! Indeed, a princess she was in the queen's heart !

This jealous aristocrats never forgave : that Marie-Antoinette favoured so openly the ones she loved...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 19, 2006, 10:16:19 AM
«Paramount sums of money were exchanged, at the court, for jewels, clothes, castles, dinners and suppers, feasts...»

Yes, you are absolutley right  ;)
The Queen could love very much Aglaé, but wasn't she shocked when she heard about Yolande's planes to Aglaé?..She married when she was only 12! At this time, many people married with 15,16 and 17 years...But 12?! I don't know if it was frequent..
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 19, 2006, 10:40:07 AM
Antoinette married when she was 14... and you must see the father's agenda too ! What did he say, Jules ? Aglaé had a child very soon, then, after her marriage. She was only 14, I think. We are all different from each others. Maybe, at 12, Aglaé, was ready for men ? I know it may seem awful for us, and I agree with you it's terribly young... but what really happened ? Maybe the poor girl was hopelessly in love ?

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 23, 2006, 01:47:49 PM
I think that we would only know if Aglaé was in love with her husband, the duc de Guiche, if we had diaries or letters...

I don't think that there's any diary or letter by Yolande, Madame de Polignac that survived all these years..

And a letter by the Queen that speaks about the duchesse? No?

[/quote]
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 23, 2006, 01:49:47 PM
Information about Yolande isn't very much..We always see: The duchesse de Polignac was a extremly bad influence at the Queen and stuff like that..

But if we could see letters or diaries of the duchesse, we could understand her better, i think..
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on March 23, 2006, 03:23:49 PM
There are Diane de Polignac's memoirs, that are very nice to Gabrielle. I have never read them, there are in a library somewhere in France. A little bit about Gabrielle is also available in other Diane's diary. You can have it on "Gallica" site.

There are several letters from Marie-Antoinette to Gabrielle, really wonderful and full of tenderness. From these letters, their confidence and friendship are obvious.

There are also letters to Marie-Thérèse, where Marie-Antoinette writes about Madame de Polignac, this lady she "infinitely loves". She also tells her mother that the king appreciates Gabrielle very much too.

Wicked words you can find in Mercy's correspondence to the empress. Much of Antoinette and her friends' bad reputations comes from Mercy's reports !  :-[
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 23, 2006, 03:29:12 PM
But do you know if the letters can be seen in the Internet?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 25, 2006, 02:35:02 PM
it would be interesting reading some letters...


(i like the new forum, but i think that i prefered the older  :P)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 26, 2006, 02:03:28 PM
Yolande in 1793, the year of her death:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/VLBpolignacB.jpg)

Yolande:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/mpolignac.jpg)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on March 28, 2006, 01:06:39 PM
Quote
Yolande in 1793, the year of her death:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/VLBpolignacB.jpg)

Yolande:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/mpolignac.jpg)

Yolande:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/dianedepolignac.jpg)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 01, 2006, 01:58:09 AM
It's possible to read letters from Marie-Antoinette on "gallica site". Enter "Marie-Antoinette" as author and search. They are in "Louis XVI, Marie-Antoinette and Elisabeth's correspondence", 6 volumes. But be careful, most of these letters are false ones... One of the most beautiful is dated December 29th 1789.

Thanks for these portraits, Polignac ! The first is a posthume one Madame Vigée-Lebrun made in 1793, but the last one represents Diane de Polignac, actually.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 02, 2006, 06:43:34 PM
Oh, yes, you are right  ;)

So, Madame Diane de Polignac was the sister of the Duc Jules Polignac. I know that she was very ambitious too, but she was an inteligent woman.

Madame Louise de Polastron was, as Wikipedia says, the Duchesse Yolande Polignac's younger sister, and lover of the Comte de Artois, Charles. I don't know anything about Madame Louise.

I only know these two ladys from the 18th century Polastron-Polignac family, do you know more? Maybe, you can tell something about Madame Yolande's parents, or other brothers (i don't know if she had more brothers then Madame Louise)...

Thanks* * * *
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 03, 2006, 02:59:25 AM
No, I don't. Actually, I'm only interested in Gabrielle for she was Antoinette's friend. We can't totally rely on Wikipedia, and, following a specialist, there could be a mistake: maybe Louise wasn't Gabrielle's sister, but Gabrielle's siter-in-law.

Yes, it seems Diane was the ambitious person of the family. On the contrary, Gabrielle was rather indolent and soft... as you can see on her portraits, very different an expression from Diane ! Marie-Antoinette herself spoke of her friend's "candeur" (being candid).
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 04, 2006, 09:20:44 AM
I was searching information about the Duchesse and what have I found: a letter by Marie Antoinette to the Duchesse...But I don't know if it's a real one.

http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/secretofroaninish/10/5.html
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 04, 2006, 11:44:05 AM
No, it's not a real one. Antoinette only called Gabrielle "mon cher coeur" and would never sign "Marie-Antoinette de France". This was the evidence the letters used by Madame de Lamotte Valois, for the necklace affair, were false !

(http://www.archivesdefrance.culture.gouv.fr/fr/actualit%E9s/marieantoinette1b.jpg)

(http://www.archivesdefrance.culture.gouv.fr/fr/actualit%E9s/marieantoinette2b.jpg)

This is a letter from Antoinette to Gabrielle.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 06, 2006, 11:08:27 AM
Thank you for the letters..But can you understand what they are saying?  :P

Oh, and you are right..I think that i was confused with something, because, in Wikipedia it's says: Gabrielle's beautiful sister-in-law, Louise, became the life-long mistress of Louis XVI's youngest brother, Charles, Comte d'Artois (later Charles X).
 :P :P
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 11, 2006, 08:15:53 AM
Marie-Antoinette wrote :

August, 23th, 89

They assure me the way this letter will come to you is safe. I can so tell you, my dear heart, that I love you tenderly. My health keeps on, but my soul is overwhelmed with pains, sorrows and worries. Each day we hear about new misfortunes, and the biggest of all for me is that I am parted from all my friends. I see, I meet no eyes, no heart that can hear me... at least could I be happy should I know they are secure !
Hainaut, that was quiet, gets on agitating since two days. I'm worried about it.
I wrote to your cousin. I couldn't let her go with her mother without telling her goodbye. However the journey is long and difficult for this last one, I'm very happy she gets away from a place where everything is afflicting for her.
I don't know how much my letter will take for arriving. I tell you nothing about the children, the person who will take care of this mail will bring you news from them.
Farewell, my dear heart, only death can make me stop loving you.


(a line meaning her signature, she always signs her letters to familiars so)

Speak of me often to your husband, your daughter and Armand. I love them three with all my soul.

Dear Polignac, I hope it will be OK. It's roughly translated... I did my best ! Hainaut is a part of Austrian Netherlands.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 11, 2006, 11:53:02 AM
Oh thanks coquelicot  ;)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 11, 2006, 12:03:12 PM
«The young Prince showed a strong dislike to the Duchesse de Polignac, who attributed it either to the Duc or the Duchesse d’Harcourt, and came to make her complaints respecting it to the Queen. The Dauphin twice sent her out of his room, saying to her, with that maturity of manner which long illness always gives to children: “Go out, Duchess; you are so fond of using perfumes, and they always make me ill;” and yet she never used any. The Queen perceived, also, that his prejudices against her friend extended to herself; her son would no longer speak in her presence. »

I think that i've read that already here at the forum. But is it true, or fake? The last part «her son would no longer speak in her presence», is a little odde, isn't? It says that the Queen ordder her son to not to speak in her presence  :-?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 11, 2006, 05:10:24 PM
I really don't know, Polignac. This is troubling, indeed... So many bad things have been said about Gabrielle, even during her lifetime. So many ladies were jealous of the friendship the queen felt for her, and jealous of her position in the court. They immediately said she didn't care for the princes, and she only did it for prestige and money. In fact, Antoinette and Gabrielle raised their children together for long.

All I do when I doubt, as in front of such a testimony, is to get back to Marie-Antoinette's quill. What did she write about Gabrielle as governess ? Nothing but tender words...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 11, 2006, 07:34:58 PM
I was locking about something of Gabrielle's and Jules life, and i found this:

«Louis-Melchior-Armand, vicomte de Polignac was born 1717, died after 1792. He married twice. By Marie-Zephirine Mancini (d. before 1777) he had Armand-Jules-Francois, le duc de Polignac (1745-1817), Philippe-Jules-Francois (1747-?), and two daughters. By Madeleine-Elizabeth de Fleury (d. 1788) he had Heraclius-Auguste- Gabriel, comte de Polignac (1788-1871), and Elisabeth-Julie-Diane (1785-?), who married Sabakhin, chancellor of Russia. »
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 11, 2006, 07:35:42 PM
I discover that Aglaé, the duchesse de Guiche, died in 1803, in a fire acident.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 19, 2006, 02:32:17 PM
Madame Gabrielle Polignac has taked the Princesse de Guéménée "job" as  Governess to the Royal Children...Do you know if the Guéménée's saw this with "bad eyes"?

I would also like to know a little about the princes of Guéménée, specially about the old  Governess to the Royal Children..I read that they became bankrupt in 1782, but i'm not sure...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 20, 2006, 12:33:44 PM
That's the point, Polignac ! Monsieur de Guéméné had to face banckrupt and an awful scandal. So, Madame de Guéméné must leave her functions. Then, Marie-Antoinette chose her friend Gabrielle de Polignac to replace her.

Madame de Guéméné also was Marie-Antoinette's friend. She received many people in her salon and they gamble till mornings. She was a strange lady with interests in spirits and ghosts. She said she was in touch with spirits through the souls of her dogs. She sometimes looked at her dogs, stopped talking and fell into a kind of transe.

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 24, 2006, 02:48:18 PM
Coquelicot, what have I found!!  ;D ;D You probably already know this site, but I didn't knew:

- http://www.blackmask.com/books27c/mariean.htm

It speaks about the Duchesse in all of the site, but in CHAPTER XI. KING LOUIS THE SIXTEENTH, it's more specific...Here, Marie Antoinette call the Duchesse by Julia.

It's the entire book of Louise Muhlbach, "Marie Antoinette And Her Son"
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 25, 2006, 12:07:57 PM
I know it, Polignac, it's a fiction. Antoinette didn't call Madame de Polignac so. "Jules", maybe ? Gabrielle ? Yolande ? Martine ? I don't know... "Mon coeur" and "mon cher coeur", for sure !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 27, 2006, 04:01:13 PM
I know that it's very difficult to know how was Gabrielle physically, but the portaits and diaries of people that lived with the DUchesse can help...
In some portaits, the Duchesse was represented with blue eyes, but in the one where she's with a green hat and a withe dress, representes her with brown eyes..

«Her character suited the Queen; she had merely natural talents, no pedantry, no affectation of knowledge. She was of middle size; her complexion very fair, her eyebrows and hair dark brown, her teeth superb, her smile enchanting, and her whole person graceful. She was seen almost always in a demi-toilet, remarkable only for neatness and good taste. I do not think I ever once saw diamonds about her, even at the climax of her fortune, when she had the rank of Duchess at Court.», from http://www.authorama.com/memoirs-of-marie-antoinette-9.html

I think that she might be one of the most beautiful known aristocrats at Versailles... The Princesse de Lamballe seems pretty, but the elegance, at the same time extravagant and simple, atract me very much...She is my favorite woman of the Court de Versailles.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 27, 2006, 04:06:04 PM
I was talking about the seconde portait of the second post of Sissi here in the Topic about Yolande de Polignac. But my favorite portait is the first of her second post.

P.S.: a little confuse, with second posts, but... :P
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on April 28, 2006, 10:05:07 AM
Duchess de Polignac was little, with the face of an angel, blue eyes, dark hair. Someone even wrote "as if drowned into ink". She had a candid smile and little lovely white teeth. All her moves were gracious and nochalent, she was soft and sweet. She had a beautiful voice, and enjoyed chanting with her friend Antoinette.

She definitely has blue eyes. They seem brown on one of her portrait, but they are blue. Colours of paintings may change...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Imperial.Opal on April 28, 2006, 03:22:33 PM
To Polignac, just curious, as you are a  ex member, why are you contributing to the forum again  ;)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 28, 2006, 04:15:40 PM
Imperial Opal, I think during the change to the new format, a glitch caused one or two members to be listed as 'ex members' even though they hadn't left or being banned - I seen it happen with another member. But I might be horribly, HORRIBLY wrong so don't quote me on this.  ;)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 28, 2006, 06:50:38 PM
Oh, i don't know what happened...  :-/ But Prince Lieven is right... It's strange. Even my regist of the number of posts continued to be the same.  :-? I continue to have acess to modify my firsts posts...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on April 28, 2006, 06:56:47 PM
And I've seen now that i'm only a ex-member in Yolande de Polignac topic. In others, like the Duchesse de CHevreuse (and I created that topic in February, whit the last format), I'm a member... :-/
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Imperial.Opal on April 29, 2006, 02:58:09 AM
Hi, Polignac
I had trouble myself recently in the forum, due to some gremlins in the system, I like your contributions,so bring it on, ; :)  ;)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on May 06, 2006, 12:18:53 PM
Did the Duc Jules, as officer of the french army, gonne to the American Revolutionary War? Axel von Fersen did, as many other nobles...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on May 10, 2006, 02:02:50 PM
I hope you understand french..
«En 1668, le Marquis de Polastron, seigneur de Noueilles, Venerque et Grépiac, avait plusieurs enfants, dont un fils, le Comte de Polastron, qui eut lui-même trois enfants : une fille, Levis ; un garçon, qui embrassa la carrière militaire ; et une autre fille, Yolande, Martine, Gabrielle de Polastron qui, par son mariage, devint Duchesse de Polignac en 1767.

La Duchesse suivit son mari à la Cour et devint très vite une intime de Marie-Antoinette. La reine donnait très souvent des goûters dans le parc du château et y invitait des jeunes filles nobles et peu fortunées qui y faisaient leur apprentissage de futures dames de cour. Elle y recevait aussi de jeunes nobles, parmi lesquels le Comte d'Artois, alors âgé de 23 ans et frère de Louis XVI.

Jeune officier très apprécié de ces demoiselles, il représentait à leurs yeux l'incarnation du Prince Charmant. Il remarqua une belle jeune fille de 16 ans, Louise d'Esparbès, belle brunette aux yeux de braise, que le délicieux accent de son Armagnac natal parait d'un charme supplémentaire.

Marie-Antoinette et Madame de Polignac, s'étant prises d'amitié pour cette jeune Louise, l'invitaient très souvent à leurs goûters. Mais bientôt, sentant le danger d'un amour naissant entre le jeune d'Artois et Louise, Madame de Polignac favorisa le mariage de la jeune fille et de son frère, Comte de Polastron, colonel dans le régiment de Monsieur de Lafayette.

A peine le mariage célébré, le Comte partit combattre en Amériques aux côtés du général Lafayette, délaissant sa jeune épouse. Esseulée, amoureuse, est-ce à cette époque qu'elle devint la maîtresse du Comte d'Artois ?...

Toujours est-il que la Révolution arrive. Polastron, de retour en France, est arrêté, jugé et guillotiné sur le Place de la Nation, son corps jeté dans la fosse commune du cimetière de Picpus. Son nom figure dans la chapelle attenante, avec celui des autres guillotinés. La Comtesse Louise de Polastron pour y retrouver son amant : le Comte d'Artois qui va devenir, plus tard, le roi Charles X. Louise lui restera fidèle jusqu'à la mort.

L'immobilier des Polastron vendu comme bien d'émigrés, Barthélémy Marty racheta les terres, leurs dépendances et le château de Noueilles à la Nation. Seul souvenir de leurs anciens biens fonciers, une petite rue de Venerque porte leur nom : rue Polastron de la Hillière.», from http://www.noueilles.fr/521-chateau-marty.html#Comtes
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on May 10, 2006, 02:06:27 PM
So, the Duchesse de Polignac's father, the Comte de Polastron died on the guillotine..And recording to this website, the Duchesse had a brother and a sister (Louise)..

But I also had seen this:
«the sister-in-law
of the Duchess of Polignac, Louise d'Esparbes, Viscountess of
Polastron. The Duchess of Gontaut recounts in her unpublished
Memoirs the touching and pathetic scene of the supreme adieu of
this charming woman and of Charles X., then Count d'Artois.», in http://nicksimon2.tripod.com/34-23.html
But if Louise was Viscountess of Polastron, she couldn't be a sister of Jules de Polignac, because he wasn't a Polastron, but Gabrielle was..
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on May 10, 2006, 02:21:24 PM
Louise de Polastron, by Elisabeth Louise Vigée Le Brun:
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/Polasbe.jpg)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: bell_the_cat on May 10, 2006, 02:40:08 PM
Quote
So, the Duchesse de Polignac's father, the Comte de Polastron died on the guillotine..And recording to this website, the Duchesse had a brother and a sister (Louise)..

But I also had seen this:
«the sister-in-law
of the Duchess of Polignac, Louise d'Esparbes, Viscountess of
Polastron. The Duchess of Gontaut recounts in her unpublished
Memoirs the touching and pathetic scene of the supreme adieu of
this charming woman and of Charles X., then Count d'Artois.», in http://nicksimon2.tripod.com/34-23.html
But if Louise was Viscountess of Polastron, she couldn't be a sister of Jules de Polignac, because he wasn't a Polastron, but Gabrielle was..

From the text you quoted, it seems that it was Gabrielle's brother (the husband of Louise) who was guillotined.

So Gabrielle was the sister in law of the mistress of the Comte d'Artois. Louise was married to Gabrielle's brother.  :-/
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Yseult on May 10, 2006, 05:09:56 PM
I suppose that you know all the portraits of Yolande, but I post this one:

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/vanozzacatanei/Yolande.jpg)

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on May 11, 2006, 01:20:12 AM
Yes, Bell the Cat, that's what I had understood too. Artois was deeply in love with Louise. He always managed to find her back in exile.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on May 11, 2006, 01:31:26 PM
I had understood bad the quote...I don't understand french very well  ::)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on May 11, 2006, 01:38:44 PM
http://www.dialogus2.org/MARI/vosdepensesextravagantes.html

I know that the letter isn't real, but, then I put the chance that the princesse de Lamballe could be an enemie of the DUchesse de Polignac..
What do you have to say about this?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on May 11, 2006, 04:05:30 PM
They were jealous of each other, but were they enemies ? Madame de Lamballe softely retired from court because of Gabrielle's favour. And, later, once alone with her beloved queen in the Tuileries, she felt better, her health problems gone...

We must be careful with this site you mentioned, dear Polignac. You and me may post to talk with Antoinette, Louis XVI or... Jesus Christ ! But who answers ? Are they historians ?

I surfed on this already, and learned one or two interesting things abut hairdressing and wigs. I wrote a letter about madame de Polignac, just for fun... and received a message in my mail-box from... Marie-Antoinette, of course ! Woaw ! I kept it...  ;D

This "queen" wrote nice and sweet words about Gabrielle. Must be a clever woman !  ;)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on June 08, 2006, 04:13:01 PM
Hey, I'm back! ;D
I've got one question about when Gabrielle knew Marie Antoinette... Was it in 1775 or in 1777? In read somewhere that they first met at summer in Château de Fontainebleau, but I'm noot very sure...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Sissi on June 08, 2006, 05:00:46 PM
Dear Polignac good to have you back!! ;D

I think that they first met in 1775
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on June 10, 2006, 04:46:30 AM
Yes, they first met in 1755. Philippe Erlanger ("aventuriers et aventurières") says that it was during a bal. The queen was amazed by Gabrielle's charm and beauty and, when they talked, she was even more enchanted by her simplicity and her sweetness. Later, they met again at Diane's place, and Gabrielle sang. Her voice was just wonderful !
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on June 10, 2006, 05:46:37 PM
But was it in a ball in Fontainbleu?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on June 11, 2006, 05:11:35 AM
Yes, I think it was. Queen and countess immediately became very close. But Gabrielle was a simple person, and she soon said to Antoinette that she did not want to go on in the court, and that she prefered to leave her before she felt to attached to her. Then, Marie-Antoinette burst into tears, and begged Gabrielle to stay with her. So, countess de Polignac accepted, by affection for the queen.

Maybe, for her tranquillity, it would have been better to refuse... But she loved Marie-Antoinette too much to hurt her.

Some people hating madame de Polignac gave a detestable explanation of this scene. They say that Vaudreuil and other ambitious courtiers sent madame de Polignac as a pilote fish to catch Marie-Antoinette, and that this was nothing but comedy. Well... in this case, how could this comedy last for years ? For their friendship lasted from 1775 to 1789... and even later, till 1793, since Gabrielle died thinking of her beloved friend.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on June 11, 2006, 08:11:19 AM
I know that Gabrielle had a chateau near the Chateau de La Muette, in Paris. Do you know any chateau or other mansion owned by the Polignacs?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: coquelicot on June 11, 2006, 08:53:07 AM
I just made a little research yesterday (not complete, just the beginning !). You can find some answers here :
http://www.parislemarais.com/lemarais/hotel_marle.php
http://www.worldtempus.com/wt/1/1153/

Some sentences concern Polignacs' houses.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on June 11, 2006, 10:02:23 AM
The Hotel de Marle, owned by the Duchesse Gabrielle:

(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/martimjessfan/hotelmarlear.jpg)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: polignac on June 11, 2006, 10:09:28 AM
I was searching around, and I found this:
http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Regions/France/Polignac.htm

It's not any property of the Polignac, but in that website we can observe that Gabrielle and her husband were Vicomte de Polignac, Marquis de Chalençon, Marquis de Mancini, Pair de France, puis Duc de Polignac et Pair de France... I didn't knew that they were Marquis de Mancini...I searched, and I found that Jules Armand mother was daughter to the duc de Nevers, from the family of the cardinal Mazarino.

But speaking about the Polignac propertys...There's actualy a château named Château de Lavoûte-Polignac, but I don't know if it was a Polignac property..
http://images.google.pt/imgres?imgurl=http://www.jedecouvrelafrance.com/img/photos/2184_1-chateau-de-lavo-te-polignac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.jedecouvrelafrance.com/f-2184.haute-loire-chateau-polignac.html&h=335&w=250&sz=19&tbnid=HYVvlWXGMswmGM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=85&hl=pt-PT&start=4&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dchateau%2Bpolignac%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Dpt-PT%26lr%3D

I'm going to continue my research for more Gabrielle's propertys
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: heavensent on April 06, 2010, 09:10:25 PM
Marie Antoinette  met  Gabrielle  in  1775, 
a year after becoming  Queen of  France.
Marie was age 20  and  Gabrielle  age 26.
The young Queen was fascinated by the stylish and sophisticated Gabrielle
and  intent on having her new friend come to live at Versailles.
go here

 http://celebheaven.freepowerboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=294&p=630#p630



.


Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: prinzheinelgirl on April 12, 2010, 09:59:04 PM
So, has anyone read that Louis XVI was infatuated with the Duchess de Polignac.....? The book Marie Therese: Child of Terror states so.

Page 29 of the book Marie Therese: Child of Terror:

That summer, Marie Antoinette became pregnant again but suffered a miscarriage in the early stages of the pregnancy.She and the King wept together, but Louis then sought solace in the company of another woman: Gabrielle Yolande de Polignac was Marie Antoinette's closest friend at court. Louis started visiting Madame de Polignac without his wife, a development that disturbed Mercy and the Empress. When Madame de Polignac became pregnant in the second half of 1779 after not having a child after a good many years, Marie Antoinette feared her worst suspicions confirmed, but she said nothing to the King hoping that his 'infatuation' would subside."

Page 30:

"In April, the Queen wrote to her mother that she was longing to give her daughter a sibling. She also admitted that although she was painfully aware that the King was enamoured of her best friend (Polignac), she would not ask him to give up his special friendship even though it was widely discussed that the King visited Mme. de Polignac at her townhouse and that hers was the only private home in Paris he visited since he had become King. Mercy reported to the Empress that Madame de Polignac was gaining more and more prestige and favor and was to be given a great deal of money and the title Duchesse after the birth of her baby. The practical reason for the King bestowing this title on the Queen's friend was so that de Polignac could remain in the inner circle at Versailles as protocol demanded that she be of a certain rank. Count Mercy (Austrian ambassador)  assured the Empress that her daughter as bearing the situation with a dignity that Maria Theresa would be proud of."

I've read at another site that some people have written the author of the book,  Dr. Susan Nagel, regarding some information on the book and that she gave her sources concerning some matters of the book to Ms. Elena Maria Vidal (who I believe is also a member of this forum).

So, what do you think?  :)  
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Grand Duchess Valeria on April 12, 2010, 11:46:37 PM
The Duchess:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Duchess_de_Polignac.jpg)

She died in Austria in December 1793, shortly after hearing of the execution of Marie-Antoinette.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: heavensent on April 13, 2010, 04:14:51 PM
Interesting, I never  knew that there was a close relationship between
Gabrielle and the King..... Marie Antoinette could have said... like Lady Di.... " there are three people
in this marriage ....."

I may be wrong but Ive always suspected that  the two people most responsible
for leading the young Marie Antoinette astray... during her wild , extravagent period...
are  Gabrielle  and the  Count of Artois  ( the King's libertine brother)

Marie was  married but the marriage was unconsumated, she was frustrated  and began to
lead a  hedonistic, spendthrift  life of  banquets balls and gambling........
no doubt  Gabrelle and  the Count were at her side, joining in the fun.

(Things probably changed  after Marie had her first child )
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: prinzheinelgirl on April 13, 2010, 10:47:54 PM
It seems that the author of the book, Dr. Susan Nagel, furnished her sources regarding the relationship between Louis XVI and the Duchesse de Polignac to Ms. Elena Maria Vidal.  There are people who refuse to the author's statements, though....they think Louis XVI was too moral to have an affair, also having spoken against having mistresses more than once.... but he wasn't a saint, was he?  ;)  I think the claims are plausible..... I mean, if Count Mercy did say that Marie Antoinette was bearing the situation with a dignity even her (critical) mother would be proud of, then the relationship must've existed.

Yes, Gabrielle was one of those "fun" friends MA had....although I think she did much worse by "asking" for lucrative posts for her family than leading MA astray with partying, etc.  
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: susana on July 17, 2010, 11:16:30 PM
My copy of the newer book on Madame Royale states that LXVI tried out his virility on Gabrielle Polignac and also a maidservant which resulted in the births of a son and daughter respectively. Never has anything like this been suggested in anything I've ever read. My copy of this book is a pre publication copy without a bibliography so I can't check anything out. What do ya'll say?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: prinzheinelgirl on July 21, 2010, 01:38:51 AM
Yes, the supposed daughter of Louis XVI with a maid was mentioned in a few books and discussed in other forums as well .  It doesn't seem impossible although perhaps it needs further verification/research.   The supposed son with Gabrielle Polignac was born in 1779 or 1780, I think. So Louis XVI was already into a consummated marriage with Marie Antoinette.... One of the valauble things this forum has taught me is to take everything I read with a pinch of salt, at least at first..... and that assertations need to be checked,  checked and cross-checked :)
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: heavensent on October 22, 2010, 07:29:32 PM
Yes... Gabrielle  was   a very stylish and sophisticated lady .... who  became I believe... Marie Antoinettes  "soul mate "
her dearest friend....
  (Poor Maria Lamballe  had to take second place in the Queen's affections !)

(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u249/lovegodlover/French%20Revolution/GABRIELLEDEPOLIGNAC.jpg)

Gabrielle  de Polignac



(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1222/princessmarielamballe.jpg) (http://img100.imageshack.us/i/princessmarielamballe.jpg/)

  A lovely ... riske...  portrait of the Princess de Lamballe
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Tony de Gandarillas on October 29, 2010, 05:31:30 PM
Reply to post # 121

According to 1921's Almanach de Gotha, troisieme partie

These are some of the homes lived in by the Polignac family:  Please note that many may have been destroyed by WWII, or may no longer be owned by Polignac family members.  I don't know which are patrimony of the Polignac family or which may have been brought into the family through marriage.

château de Canappeville, Eure
château de St-Jean-du-Cardonnay, Seine- Inférieure
château de Polignac, Haute-Loire
château de La Jumelliere, Maine et Loire
château de Navailles près Pau
château Le Plessis
château de Limésy, Seine-Inférieure
château de Kerbastic, Morbihan
château de La Voulte-Polignac, par La Voulte, Seine et Loire
château de Kerscamp, Marbihan
château de Bournville, Aisne
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: REMI on October 30, 2010, 06:20:46 AM
Reply to post # 121

According to 1921's Almanach de Gotha, troisieme partie

These are some of the homes lived in by the Polignac family:  Please note that many may have been destroyed by WWII, or may no longer be owned by Polignac family members.  I don't know which are patrimony of the Polignac family or which may have been brought into the family through marriage.

château de Canappeville, Eure
château de St-Jean-du-Cardonnay, Seine- Inférieure
château de Polignac, Haute-Loire
château de La Jumelliere, Maine et Loire
château de Navailles près Pau
château Le Plessis
château de Limésy, Seine-Inférieure
château de Kerbastic, Morbihan
château de La Voulte-Polignac, par La Voulte, Seine et Loire
château de Kerscamp, Marbihan
château de Bournville, Aisne

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: REMI on October 30, 2010, 06:21:34 AM
Reply to post # 121

According to 1921's Almanach de Gotha, troisieme partie

These are some of the homes lived in by the Polignac family:  Please note that many may have been destroyed by WWII, or may no longer be owned by Polignac family members.  I don't know which are patrimony of the Polignac family or which may have been brought into the family through marriage.

château de Canappeville, Eure
château de St-Jean-du-Cardonnay, Seine- Inférieure
château de Polignac, Haute-Loire
château de La Jumelliere, Maine et Loire
château de Navailles près Pau
château Le Plessis
château de Limésy, Seine-Inférieure
château de Kerbastic, Morbihan
château de La Voulte-Polignac, par La Voulte, Seine et Loire
château de Kerscamp, Marbihan
château de Bournville, Aisne

Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: REMI on October 30, 2010, 06:23:02 AM
....and the Château des Crayères in Reims...

REMI
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: heavensent on October 30, 2010, 10:16:08 AM
HANG ON... 
  In  1775   at  age   26    Gabrielle     met  MA  and  became  best friend of the young Queen.
  The Queen was captivated by the  charming and attractive Gabrielle  and    moved her into Versailles into a suite of  13 rooms.
  This   caused much jealousy among the courtiers and nobles at court  due to
her  sudden eminence and  high position at court....
but hang on.... Gabrielle  had 3 sons and a daughter... were they installed in Versailles too ?
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Tony de Gandarillas on October 30, 2010, 03:33:02 PM
Hello Remi,

I didn't include des Crayères  because it is not a part of Polignac patrimony.    It used to be the residence of the Pommery family, and now houses one of the finest hotels in France.  It was part of the dowry of Jeanne-Alexandrine-Louise Pommery when she married Comte Charles de Polignac on 27 March, 1851.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Tony de Gandarillas on October 30, 2010, 05:25:59 PM
So sorry, it's proper name is château les Crayères not des Crayères.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on October 30, 2010, 08:39:52 PM
it's proper name is château les Crayères

Hihi, what a base name, just like Les Tuileries!
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: CountessKate on October 31, 2010, 12:09:32 PM
HANG ON... 
  In  1775   at  age   26    Gabrielle     met  MA  and  became  best friend of the young Queen.
  The Queen was captivated by the  charming and attractive Gabrielle  and    moved her into Versailles into a suite of  13 rooms.
  This   caused much jealousy among the courtiers and nobles at court  due to
her  sudden eminence and  high position at court....
but hang on.... Gabrielle  had 3 sons and a daughter... were they installed in Versailles too ?

I don't know the specifics, but I thought noble daughters tended to be lodged at convents until their presentation at court and sons educated in the family homes in the country or in Paris with tutors - again until presentation at court or service with one of the royal family, or in one of the royal guards regiments.   They might stay at Versailles but the idea was they would be married off or established with their own lodgings if at all possible.  But children as a whole did not live at Versailles - there just wasn't the space and it was not considered appropriate for them.  13 rooms was incredible, the norm was 5 and very pokey they were too.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: heavensent on November 01, 2010, 09:33:24 PM
Nevertheless it seems strange that  at age 26........ when she met the young 19 year old queen Marie
 Gabrielle had by then 2 or 3..  ( maybe 4 )   children... and yet began leading
an exciting life as the  bosom friend of the new Queen of  France.....

Perhaps she had a private house near to the court and had relatives and nannies to supervise
her young children ?  while she led a jet set,   life at court
from what I can figure... Gabrielle was at the vortex of a very racey social set  at Versailles
whose company Marie found irresistable   andthis   perhaps led to her downfall
While the more prim, sober Princess Lamballe and her social set were neglected by
the young queen.
 When Marie met Gabrielle in 1775   the young queen  was at the start of her extravagent stage...
being dressed by Rose Bertin  etc.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: CountessKate on November 02, 2010, 11:57:06 AM
Nevertheless it seems strange that  at age 26........ when she met the young 19 year old queen Marie
 Gabrielle had by then 2 or 3..  ( maybe 4 )   children... and yet began leading
an exciting life as the  bosom friend of the new Queen of  France.....

Perhaps she had a private house near to the court and had relatives and nannies to supervise
her young children ?  while she led a jet set,   life at court
from what I can figure... Gabrielle was at the vortex of a very racey social set  at Versailles
whose company Marie found irresistable   andthis   perhaps led to her downfall
While the more prim, sober Princess Lamballe and her social set were neglected by
the young queen.
 When Marie met Gabrielle in 1775   the young queen  was at the start of her extravagent stage...
being dressed by Rose Bertin  etc.

While it was the beginning of a more 'sentimental' age, when a much closer emotional attachment to children was beginning to be considered both appropriate and indeed fashionable, that didn't mean that a concerned mother would necessarily want her children in close proximity to or in Versailles, which after all was effectively a business base for the government of France, where courtiers clustered around the founts of power and patronage.  It was quite in keeping with the culture of the times for a woman to be considered a careful and responsible parent without her actually seeing very much of her children at all, and keeping them away from Versailles - and indeed what could be considered rather louche associations - might well have been deemed better parenting than having them with her.
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: heavensent on November 02, 2010, 02:36:36 PM
I think only someone who has read her biog can solve this one !
For 7 years Gabrielle had no officiel post at Versailles.... yet she  reigned supreme.... the bosom
buddy of the young Queen..... her closest companion and confident.
Eventually she became......  Governess of the Children of France ...
Title: Re: Duchesse de Polignac
Post by: frohsdorf on February 23, 2014, 08:48:48 PM
She died in Vienna in December 1793....no one seems to know where she is buried!  Can anyone confirm?