Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Hohenzollern => Topic started by: MarieCharlotte on February 12, 2006, 08:33:11 AM

Title: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 12, 2006, 08:33:11 AM
Dear discussion group,

I am searching for pictures of

Wilhelm Karl Florestan Gero Crescentius, Duke of Urach (1864-1928.)

his first wife
Amélie, Duchess in Bavaria (1865-1912)

his second wife
Wiltrud, Princess of Bavaria (1884-1975)

and his children by his first wife Amélie

Marie Gabrielle Carola Josepha Sophie Mathilde (1893-1908.)
Elisabeth Florestine Auguste Marie Luise (1894-1962)
Karola Hilda Elisabeth Maria (1896-1980)
Wilhelm Albert Karl Anton Paul Gero Maria (1897-1957)
Karl Gero Albrecht Joseph Wilhelm Anton Maria (1899-1981)
Margarethe Sophie Florestine Maria Josepha (1901-1975)
Albrecht Eberhard Karl Gero Maria (1903-1969)
Rupprecht Eberhard Wilhelm Gero Maria (1907-1969)
Mechthilde Marie Gabriele Florestine Sophie Devota (1912-2001)

Can anybody give me some information about the title of this branch of the Württemberg family? Was Wilhelm "Count", "Duke" or "Fürst" of Urach?
I know that his son Wilhelm Albert Karl renounced his rights and became "Graf (Count) von Württemberg".
A grandson of Wilhelm told me that his aunt Mechthilde (1912-2001) was "Fürstin von Urach" and "Gräfin von Württemberg". But Paul Theroff says that Wilhelm's daughters were "Princesses of Württemberg". I'm a bit confused about that.

Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Agneschen on February 12, 2006, 08:45:26 AM
Duke Wilhelm of Würtemberg (1761-1830) married morganatically Wilhelmine von Tunderfeldt-Rhodis. Their son Wilhelm (1810-69 - married to Theodelinde of Beauharnais) received the title of Duke of Urach in 1867.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Svetabel on February 13, 2006, 03:39:12 AM
Children of Wilhelm and Amelie

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Bee/Germany/Urachchildren1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Bee/Germany/Urachchildren.jpg)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 13, 2006, 04:08:04 AM
Any info on Duchess Amalie, eldest daughter of Duke Karl Theodore in Bavaria ?  ???
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 13, 2006, 08:44:01 AM
@ Eric:
What do you want to know about Amélie? I've collected some information.

Does anybody know the cause of Marie Gabrielle's death in 1908?
The first pic posted by Sveta was taken in 1908. Marie Gabrielle died on 19 March 1908. She looks pretty healthy on this pic.

@ crazy wing:
Thank you so much for this nice pic of Marie Gabrielle and Elisabeth. I have another version of it together with their mother Amélie.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 13, 2006, 09:02:06 AM
Some information about her married life. The books in English did skirted the Urachs in their descption of Karl Theodor;s family. Thanks for your help !  ;)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Linnea on February 13, 2006, 10:18:58 AM
Quote
Does anybody know the cause of Marie Gabrielle's death in 1908?


Didn´t Marie Gabrielle´s aunt Marie Valerie of Austria-Tuscany write a poem on her death a la "life is short, but heaven is eternally"? I can´t remember if there were also given the reasons for poor little M. Gabnrielle´s death... >:(
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 16, 2006, 05:33:06 AM
Quote
Some information about her married life. The books in English did skirted the Urachs in their descption of Karl Theodor;s family. Thanks for your help !  ;)


Amélie and Wilhelm got married on 4 July 1892 at the Castle of Tegernsee. The cicil ceremony took place at the Marmorsaal by Graf Crailsheim, minister of the Royal House of Bavaria. After their wedding, the couple went to Bad Kreuth where they lived at the Königshaus.
Marie Redwitz, Amélie's former lady-in-waiting, tells us that Amélie and Wilhelm were a happy, harmonic couple and had the same interests. Amélie has always been a little bit shy, but she became more self-confident as a married woman. Their children were very well educated.
Amélie lived in Stuttgart - first at a house in Kernerstraße 52, but after the death of Amélie's mother in law, they moved to Palais Urach. Amélie came along very well with her in-laws.

A nice anecdote: When Amélies younger brother Franz Joseph was told about Amélie's first daughter Marie Gabrielle, he said: "Just a girl?! Today a mistake happened to me, too: I went fishing, caught two fish, but they swam away again."  :D
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 16, 2006, 05:41:32 AM
Inigo Urach, a grandson of Amélie, told me that his grandparents were a happy couple, but Wilhelm was a bit stingy.  ::)

I also found out that Amélie's eldest daughter Marie Gabrielle - she was nicknamed "Ella" as well as Marie Valérie's first daughter Elisabeth - died because of a serious cold. (The German word is "Influenza".)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 16, 2006, 05:47:47 AM
Quote

Didn´t Marie Gabrielle´s aunt Marie Valerie of Austria-Tuscany write a poem on her death a la "life is short, but heaven is eternally"? I can´t remember if there were also given the reasons for poor little M. Gabnrielle´s death... >:(


Marie Valérie wasn't Marie Gabrielle's aunt, Linnea.
Marie Gabrielle's mother Amélie was Marie Valérie's fisrt cousin.
I'm sure you've just mixed them up in some way ...  ;)

The poem can be found in "Kaiserin Elisabeth und ihre Töchter" by Martha Schad, right?
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Linnea on February 16, 2006, 10:49:09 AM
Quote

Marie Valérie wasn't Marie Gabrielle's aunt, Linnea.
Marie Gabrielle's mother Amélie was Marie Valérie's fisrt cousin.
I'm sure you've just mixed them up in some way ...  ;)

The poem can be found in "Kaiserin Elisabeth und ihre Töchter" by Martha Schad, right?


Sorry MarieCharlotte, but as the two woman were first cousins, M. Valerie was the aunt once removed of Amelie´s children. ???
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 21, 2006, 10:44:09 AM
Were they close ? Amalie & M Valerie ?
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Emilia on February 21, 2006, 11:15:39 AM
Very close, especially as young girls. When both of them founded their families, they grew a bit apart (e.g. M. Valérie didn´t notice much about Amélie in her diary anymore). But they of course still met at weddings, family gatherings etc.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 21, 2006, 07:44:14 PM
I think I saw one of them hugging togather as young girls. the photo is still kept in Bad Ischl, owned by the decendents of M Valerie.  ;)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Linnea on February 22, 2006, 11:32:25 AM
Quote
Duchess Ludovica and her favourite granddaughter Amélie


So her favourite granddaughter was the daughter of her favourite son. That's more than coincidence! ;)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Bernardino on February 23, 2006, 03:53:29 PM
Hello  :)

I have some questions about the 'mother' of all the Urach, i.e. the wife of Duke Wilhelm of Württemberg:

Her marriage wasn't equal for sure and her offspring received the title of Counts of Württemberg later on the Urachs.

The available genealogies describe her as: Wilhelmine Rhodis, Freiin von Tunderfeldt, but the Almanach de Gotha 1867 says this '‘obtient lors de son marriage le titre de burgravine de Rhodis, et comme telle, après son marriage le titre de princesse’ (at the time of her marriage received the title of Burggravine of Rhodis, and, as so, after her marriage the title of Princess)...

I would like to know the exact evolution of her titles and if she ever was Gräfin von Württemberg...

Thank you in advance...
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Agneschen on February 25, 2006, 05:40:25 AM
Quote
Duchess Ludovica and her favourite granddaughter Amélie


Does anyone know why Amelie was Ludovica's favourite grandchild ? I mean apart from the fact that she lost her mother at a very young age and of course that she was Gackel's daughter.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 25, 2006, 06:53:42 AM
Once again I have to refer to Marie Redwitz. She wrote that Ludovica felt very sorry for Amélie, because she had a hard childhood. Of course, she lost her mother when she was still very young. But besides that, she had a shy, reserved character and didn't have much self-confidence. Maybe Ludovica thought she had to protect this granddaughter.
After Sophie of Sachsen's death, Ludovica was some kind of "mother" for Amélie. She was around her all the time. Carl Theodor remarried in 1874 - that means Amélie and Ludovica spent 7 years together. But still after Carl Theodor's wedding Ludovica wanted Amélie to live with her in Possenhofen and the Maxpalais. Every time, Amélie left her, she was very sad and wanted to convince her granddaughter to stay. So I guess they had a very close realtionship.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: José on March 17, 2007, 11:31:57 AM
I would appreciate if someone could post any photo/picture of Florestine de Monaco (1833-97), second wife of Duke Wilhelm of Urach Wurttemberg ((1810-69).

Thwe present line of the Dukes of Urach is issued from this marriage.

Photos of the present Duke Wilhelm (1957-...) and his wife and children will also be appreciated.

José
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Danjel on March 23, 2007, 04:15:13 PM
The present Duke Wilhelm, and his wife  Karen, born von Brauchitsch

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v666/daan73/11-1.jpg)

Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Yseult on April 04, 2007, 03:49:47 PM
I would appreciate if someone could post any photo/picture of Florestine de Monaco (1833-97), second wife of Duke Wilhelm of Urach Wurttemberg ((1810-69).

Thwe present line of the Dukes of Urach is issued from this marriage.

Photos of the present Duke Wilhelm (1957-...) and his wife and children will also be appreciated.

José

José, I was not searching for, but I have found a picture of Florestine in another forum.
You can see two ladies: left, the countess of Fontenilles, and, right, princess Florestine. The dog, Lucrèce, was, I think, the pet of Florestine.


Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: José on April 14, 2007, 11:16:20 AM
Thank you Yseult.
I had almost lost hope in finding a picture of Florestine.
But this forum is fantastic.
When you less expect,...  ;)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Marie Valerie on December 19, 2008, 07:08:17 AM
Children of Wilhelm and Amelie

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Bee/Germany/Urachchildren1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Bee/Germany/Urachchildren.jpg)




Has anyone a pic of Marie Gabriele (1893-1908)?
Where is she at the top pic?
On the other one she was already dead, poor thing..

Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Svetabel on December 20, 2008, 02:54:19 AM



Has anyone a pic of Marie Gabriele (1893-1908)?
Where is she at the top pic?




Marie Gabriele is at the top of the 1st picture.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Svetabel on December 20, 2008, 02:57:07 AM
Here are Marie Gabriele and her sister Elisabeth

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/PrincessesMarieGabrieleandElisabeth.jpg)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Rani on December 20, 2008, 04:34:56 AM
Marie looks like her mother. Nice photo!
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Marie Valerie on December 20, 2008, 06:28:02 AM
(http://www.royaltyguide.nl/images-families/wurttemberg/urach/1893%20M.Gabriella.jpg)

So this is Elisabeth and not Marie Gabriele?!

I'm confused!
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Zukunftsseele on July 03, 2009, 11:14:51 AM
Infos and photos about Amelie and her family are indeed rare. Which is a pity, in my opinion. So here are a few pictures I found. I'd be happy if someone has more pictures of the family.

Amelie:
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/3060787909_89bd4d3daa_o.jpg)
courtesy Mrs.Fujita


(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/AmalieinBayern.jpg)

(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb201/zukunftsseele/350px-Wilhelmurach.jpg)
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: julian1952 on January 13, 2011, 11:43:04 AM
Marie Gabriele is NOT the person standing in the photo nor is she the person in the oval photograph - that is her sister Princess Elisabeth.
Marie Gabriele is sitting to the left of the baby in the photo which contains only the children.
She is sitting to the right of her youngest brother in the photo which contains her father.
Title: Re: The Urach Ducal family
Post by: Svetabel on November 30, 2012, 01:01:35 PM
Duke Wilhelm and his 2nd wife Wiltrud of Bavaria. Newlywed couple

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1924pl-1.jpg)

The  Duke looks very old and ill, actually...


Court. of ANNO database