Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Rulers Prior to Nicholas II => Topic started by: Angie_H on August 15, 2004, 10:41:12 AM

Title: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Angie_H on August 15, 2004, 10:41:12 AM
I have a question. In the topic: "does anyone here..." some posted a pic of  Alexander III and Marie's 2nd son Alexander Alexandrovich. This pic is obviously a funeral pic. Does anyone have pics of him when he was alive? There were so many pics taken of Nicholas as a baby. I think it's weird that they never took any pics of their 2nd son before he died.
Angie
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: otmafan on August 15, 2004, 01:43:00 PM
I argee. That's really weird. From the only pic I've seen of him, he seems really cute.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on August 15, 2004, 01:57:24 PM
I posted the photo of him thinking it was the infant Nicholas, perhaps at his baptism. The book was in Russian but it ID'd it as Nicholas. Obviously, it doesn't seem to be he, but rather Alexander. Poor thing, he was a sweet-looking baby. I always wondered about photos of him, but there are perhaps a lot of photos either lost or still in archives. If Marie F. managed to take any with her to Denmark, perhaps in the archives there? They can be pretty stingy. As much as all the Danes loved to take photos, I can't imagine she didn't take any of this child. You always see a member of that family with a camera in hand or posing for a group photo, etc... Shame to think how much historical information/photographs might have been irretrievably lost.  :(

In fact, I googled around and many geneaological sites don't even list this son, which is odd since he lived almost a year. I can understand missing children like Edward & Alexandra's son John who lived only a day, but a site devoted to geneaology should have something on him. I wonder what would've happened had he lived? The pressure mightn't have been so intense on N&A to produce a healthy heir if N had had him as his next brother. George was a smart fellow, but ill for such a long time before he died; Michael was charming but flighty. If Alexander could've somehow been a combination of the 2 (healthy and charming), married and produced children, N&A might've been content in knowing that the succession would pass to him and been freer to enjoy their family life.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Angie_H on October 01, 2004, 02:03:12 PM
Elisa have you ever seen any photographs of AII's first daughter Alexandra? I never have. She was 7 when she died. I remember reading how upset AII was when his other daughter Marie married because he would miss her so much. That she was such a blessing after they had lost their 1st daughter
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on October 01, 2004, 10:56:46 PM
Quote
Elisa have you ever seen any photographs of AII's first daughter Alexandra? I never have. She was 7 when she died. I remember reading how upset AII was when his other daughter Marie married because he would miss her so much. That she was such a blessing after they had lost their 1st daughter


I don't think any photos were taken of her. There was an article somewhere not too long ago that shows a pre-teen Marie with Empress Marie A. and it says it was one of the first known photographs of the Romanovs. Since Alexandra died around 1847-9 (?) that was before the days of photographs. I haven't even seen a miniature of her before though, either.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Angie_H on October 02, 2004, 10:32:24 AM
GrandDuchessElla I remember that article too. But you're right! There aren't any miniatures of her either!
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on October 31, 2004, 06:02:46 PM
Quote
I have a question. In the topic: "does anyone here..." some posted a pic of  Alexander III and Marie's 2nd son Alexander Alexandrovich. This pic is obviously a funeral pic. Does anyone have pics of him when he was alive? There were so many pics taken of Nicholas as a baby. I think it's weird that they never took any pics of their 2nd son before he died.
Angie


I was reading a book and there was a quote from MF that when AA died so suddenly, they had him sketched and photographed so they could remember him. It sounded like those were the only images of him. I've never seen the sketch but I imagine it's close to the photo.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on August 11, 2005, 03:58:17 PM
Quote

I was reading a book and there was a quote from MF that when AA died so suddenly, they had him sketched and photographed so they could remember him. It sounded like those were the only images of him. I've never seen the sketch but I imagine it's close to the photo.


Ella - is the picture you are speaking of of the baby in the coffin in the frilly outfit.  I too was told that was AA but Prince Nicholas Romanov told me he didn't think it was her - but was a noble baby.  I can't remember what his reasoning was but will look around.  Do you have any additional info on that picture?  Sorry I can't post it.  I can email it to you if you like.

best,
dca
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Penny_Wilson on August 11, 2005, 05:52:09 PM
Dom,

If you can email it to me, I might be able to help -- I have a photo of Pss Natalya Konstantinovna that sound like the one you have...
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on August 11, 2005, 11:29:20 PM
Quote

Ella - is the picture you are speaking of of the baby in the coffin in the frilly outfit.  I too was told that was AA but Prince Nicholas Romanov told me he didn't think it was her - but was a noble baby.  I can't remember what his reasoning was but will look around.  Do you have any additional info on that picture?  Sorry I can't post it.  I can email it to you if you like.

best,
dca

I had seen the picture in a Russian book. It was Alexander Alexandrovich (son of Minnie & Sasha) and not the other 'AA' (we really use too many initials--I'm especially bad) Alexandra Alexandrovich (daughter of Alexander II and Empress Marie). If you notice in my post you quoted it says 'him'. Sorry about the confusion.

Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Penny_Wilson on August 13, 2005, 12:47:28 PM
Hi Dominic!

I have located the photo of Natalia K -- and the photo you sent me isn't her.  It's quite a different little face, though the bonnet is similar.  So I don't know who this little one is...
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: lostfan on August 16, 2005, 07:53:11 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Alexander_russia.jpg)

That's the only known photo of little Alexander. I also was curious to know why no other pictures of him exist, especially since you can find so many of Nicholas, George, Xenia, Michael and Olga as small babies.  ???
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: pinklady on August 17, 2005, 06:15:11 AM
There was a family photo of Alexander and Marie with baby Nicholas and so I think there must have been a photo of the four of them with baby Alexander, after all they were a royal family.
It must be in the archives and as yet undiscovered.
Because it does not make sense that the child lived for almost a year and there are no photos of him.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on August 17, 2005, 08:02:23 AM
You'd think, wouldn't you? There was a quote in a book (perhaps the Coryne Hall bio on MF) that they had him sketched and photographed so they would remember what he looked like. It seemed by that statement there weren't other pictures.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Macedonsky on August 17, 2005, 11:07:32 AM
Quote
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8c/Alexander_russia.jpg)
That's the only known photo of little Alexander.

This photo is stolen from my site (http://macedonsky.narod.ru/agnates/a09.html):
(http://macedonsky.narod.ru/images/agnates/a09.jpg)
I stolen it from Alexander Bokhanov's book few years ago :-)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: lostfan on August 17, 2005, 04:16:53 PM
In 'The Camera and the Tsars', it says that just two weeks after Alexander died, Alexander and Marie went to the Caucasus, and poor little Nicholas clung to his mother and was inconsolable.

I agree with GDElla, if Alexander had survived, perhaps Nicholas and Alexandra might not have been super concerned with succession.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Romanov_Fan19 on November 11, 2005, 01:53:48 PM
that poor thing  at least  hes safe now
I Do wonder what he wouldve been like  who  were his Godparents     is  he talked about much in Nicholas II diary
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Linnea on November 11, 2005, 02:01:26 PM
His godparents were Alexander II. of Russia, Christian XI. of Denmark, Alexandra of Wales and Maria Alexandrovna of Russia (daughter of Alexander II.).
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: imperial angel on May 10, 2006, 10:13:09 AM
That is a sad photo. I would think there would be some more photos, but perhaps not. He may not have been thought important because he wasn't heir to the throne, so less photos. Or perhaps they are just in the archives somewhere. But if, at his death, they had to do what that biograohy says, there were no other photos of him, though it seems a bit strange to me, as well. If Alexander had lived, perhaps things would have gone better. It also strange that some biographies have him born before Nicholas rather than after.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on May 10, 2006, 11:31:22 AM
This was just the beginning of the tragedies for poor MF. Sad to think that by the end of her life she had lost all 4 of her sons--2 to illness and 2 to murder.  :(
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Angie_H on December 30, 2006, 11:10:40 PM
Does anyone have pics/portraits of Alexander II's first daughter? Or pics of Alexander III's son Alexander (besides the one of him in his coffin?)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Svetabel on December 31, 2006, 08:55:20 AM
Alexandra Alexandrovna, daughter of Alexander II

http://www.otechestvo.org.ua/main/20066/2904.htm (http://www.otechestvo.org.ua/main/20066/2904.htm)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Aliss_Kande on December 31, 2006, 04:26:49 PM
I never knew Alexander II had another daughter!  What happened to her?
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on December 31, 2006, 06:58:52 PM
Alexander has his own thread--on page 7, I think. I believe the photo of him in his coffin is the only known photo of him.

Alexandra used to have a thread. Alexandra's been discussed on multiple threads, most recently on the one devoted to her sister Marie in The Windsors.She died young of an illness--meningitis, I believe. She was actually the first-born child of AII & MA. I think she was sketched but died before the advent (or at least the wide use) of photography. She was born in 1842 and died just short of her 7th birthday, in 1849. The name 'Alexandra' seems to have been a rather unfortunate one for members of the Imperial family.  :-\ Were there any Grand Duchesses with the name (born to the family) who survived past their early 20s? Alexandra Pavlovna, Alexandra N and Alexandra A all died young. Of course, Alexander wasn't especially lucky either.  :-\
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Svetabel on January 08, 2007, 09:00:53 AM
Alexandra Alexandrovna, daughter of Alexander II

http://www.otechestvo.org.ua/main/20066/2904.htm (http://www.otechestvo.org.ua/main/20066/2904.htm)


Oh, in fact this child is not Alexandra. Here is the whole picture, Alexandra is sitting and the baby is her brother Nicholas.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/aana1.jpg)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 08, 2007, 01:46:26 PM
wow, How darling this that! cute. :)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on January 08, 2007, 08:47:20 PM
Poignant too--not just because Alexandra is so unmemorialized (in pictures) but because both of these children, the 2 firstborn, would predecease both their parents.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: bookworm857158367 on January 09, 2007, 07:41:07 AM
A bit of trivia: Alexandra was called "Lina" in the family and her brother Nicholas was "Nixa." She died of meningitis at age seven and it devastated her mother so much that she broke down in tears discussing it even twenty years after the event. When their second daughter Marie was born, she was badly spoiled because they had wanted another daughter so much. From the portrait, at least, it appears that Alexandra would have grown up to be far prettier than her sister Marie, the Duchess of Edinburgh.

According to Margaret Eagar's book, the family avoided using the name Alexandra for its daughters after the death of the little grand duchess and of Grand Duchess Alexandra Georgievna. That's probably why none of Nicholas and Alexandra's four daughters were named Alexandra as well, even though avoiding the name doesn't appear to have given them any added luck.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: imperial angel on January 09, 2007, 10:29:55 AM
I think she would have grown up to be more beautiful than her as well. I don't know what she was like personality wise, although MA, her younger sister born after her death was difficult, and had a very high opinion of herself. But, if this sister had lived, MA would not have had such a high opinion of herself, I feel rather certain. Alexandra would have over shadowed MA. Thanks for the info you posted, I didn't know it.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on January 09, 2007, 02:32:05 PM
It's hard to say what she would've looked like based on a portrait as a child--not only was she very young but portraits were usually flattering. Here's a series of portraits of the children of AII and MA. Marie looks very sweet and delicate in hers--plus she's wearing Nixa's cap!  :) Those flowered caps must've been very popular with royalty--they show up on QV's children and many of her grandchildren as well.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/4J39N_N08124-46-11.jpg)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: clockworkgirl21 on June 09, 2007, 11:39:32 PM
Anyone have information on him? Any information at all. Especially if they ever found out how he died so young. Maybe SIDS (even though they may not have known it then)?
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Svetabel on June 10, 2007, 02:16:20 AM
Here is a thread on him

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,621.0.html (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,621.0.html)

Little Alexander's cause of death was a bad cold according to a bio on his mother.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: grandduchessella on June 10, 2007, 12:22:58 PM
I've merged the 2 threads now.

A 'bad cold'? That seems so simple a thing to carry a child off nowadays.  :( Poor MF to have lost all 4 of her sons--2 to illness and 2 to violence.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: FaithWhiteRose on June 10, 2007, 02:17:53 PM
I argee. That's really weird. From the only pic I've seen of him, he seems really cute.

It's really sad that he died .  . . I wonder what would have happened if he survived. If he would have been murdered with the rest of the Romanovs, or if he would have survived, or if someone claimed to be him . . .
Another "what if".
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Svetabel on June 10, 2007, 02:18:46 PM
I've merged the 2 threads now.

A 'bad cold'? That seems so simple a thing to carry a child off nowadays.  :( Poor MF to have lost all 4 of her sons--2 to illness and 2 to violence.

Possibly a bad cold turned into pneumonia.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Alixz on June 10, 2007, 02:22:28 PM
As to biographies excluding some children.  I have noticed that does happen.  Alexander Alexandrovich is omitted quite often in bios of Nicholas II and even his parents.  And as someone else said, sometimes he is listed as having been born before Nicholas, but I think that is how some biographers like to see it because Nixa died and Alexander III became heir and if Alexander Alexandrovich had been born first and then died the chain would look unbroken.

I have several biographies of Alexander III and Nicholas II were Alexis Alexandrovich is unmentioned.  Even on the family tree page, his name does not appear. And he certainly didn't die young.  Probably because he had no children and so did not leave any family behind to carry on that particular line.

And if the Romanovs were avoiding the use of "Alexandra" then Nicholas should have let Alix go with Ekaterina as she wanted to.  Maybe that is the jinxed tie in.

Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: LisaDavidson on June 22, 2007, 12:17:44 AM
I've merged the 2 threads now.

A 'bad cold'? That seems so simple a thing to carry a child off nowadays.  :( Poor MF to have lost all 4 of her sons--2 to illness and 2 to violence.

Possibly a bad cold turned into pneumonia.

Actually, if the posters are referring to Alexander Alexandrovich, he died of meningitis according to what I've discovered. Not a cold or anything close to that. But something that could have been treated today.

As to pictures, please bear in mind the difference between public and private photos. It is very likely that the death photo was the only public photo in existence as the baby did not live long. Photography at the time of his birth was still very new and very expensive. Taking one's own photos would become more common in the next generation - and there may be private photos of the baby which have never seen the light of day.
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Dru on August 06, 2009, 02:00:37 PM
Does anyone have pictures of Alexander II's eldest daughter, Alexandra Alexandrovna?  Do they even exist?  I've only seen one small portrait of her (she's holding her baby brother, Nicholas Alexandrovich).  She died at age six or seven, so maybe this is the only one?
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Svetabel on August 07, 2009, 12:50:16 AM
Does anyone have pictures of Alexander II's eldest daughter, Alexandra Alexandrovna?  Do they even exist?  I've only seen one small portrait of her (she's holding her baby brother, Nicholas Alexandrovich).  She died at age six or seven, so maybe this is the only one?

By Hau, 1845

(http://www.picatom.com/12/1845-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/12/1845-1.html)
Title: Re: Alexander II's first daughter & Alexander III's 2nd son
Post by: Dru on April 16, 2011, 02:57:16 PM
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5141/5625463868_6e1e1d8582.jpg)

Found on ebay as Grand Duchess Alexandra Alexandrovna. 
Title: Grand duke Alexandre Alexandrovitch
Post by: burger queen on June 19, 2011, 04:41:46 PM
I quite surprised that only one photo of this baby exists : a picture in a bier.

Does it mean that during the first year of his short existence, any photo has been taken ?
Title: Re: Grand duke Alexandre Alexandrovitch
Post by: Olgasha on June 20, 2011, 02:21:50 AM
I quite surprised that only one photo of this baby exists : a picture in a bier.

There is also portrait of little Alexander by Kramskoy, drawn on the same day.