Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Habsburgs => Topic started by: MarieCharlotte on February 27, 2006, 09:24:00 AM

Title: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 27, 2006, 09:24:00 AM
Here are some photographs of Archduke Ludwig Victor (1842-1919). He was the youngest brother of Emperor Franz Joseph. In his family he was called Bubi or der kleine Ludwig (= little Ludwig).

I hope I can make you laugh ...  ;D

(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ludwigvictor02.jpg)

Ludwig wearing a dress


(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ludwigvictor06.jpg)

Ludwig (on the far left) with sons of Philipp of Württemberg - hot swimsuits  :o


(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ludwigvictor10.jpg)

Ludwig as a woman and as a man (photomontage?)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Linnea on February 27, 2006, 09:32:51 AM
Quote
I hope I can make you laugh ...  ;D

Yes, you can! You can make anybody laugh with these pics! ;D
What would his dear Mama have thought if she had seen these photos of her little darling! ;)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Agneschen on February 27, 2006, 11:46:04 AM
O dear this is what I call Habsburg degeneration !
I am rather puzzled about Archduke Ludwig Viktor for I have read contradictory accounts about him. ???
According to some he was calomnious, depraved as well as nasty & according to others nice, courteous and polite, especially towards old ladies.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Agneschen on February 27, 2006, 11:51:38 AM
Quote
In his family he was called Bubi or der kleine Ludwig (= little Ludwig).


Wasn't he also called LuziWuzi or something of the kind ?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 27, 2006, 12:10:01 PM
Quote

Wasn't he also called LuziWuzi or something of the kind ?


Yes. A "man" with many nicknames ...  :o
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: bell_the_cat on February 27, 2006, 12:16:11 PM
Quote

Yes. A "man" with many nicknames ...  :o


He was exiled to Salzburg on account of his odd behaviour, but he is well remembered as he was responsible for preserving much of the beauty of that city, through his interest in town planning. He was allowed to stay on after the fall of the monarchy and he died there in 1919.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Agneschen on February 27, 2006, 05:29:35 PM
Quote
What would his dear Mama have thought if she had seen these photos of her little darling! ;)

He looks pretty young on the pictures where he is dressed up as a girl. I do not see how Archduchess Sophie could avoid seeing them ... and DO wonder what she thought !
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 27, 2006, 08:50:47 PM
Ah yes...Bubi ! I think he was an unfulfiled queen who grew to be a bitter person. The nasty tongue and the gossiping lies does testify to his behavior. Both Sisi and Louise of Belgium were his victims.  ;D
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eurohistory on February 28, 2006, 09:53:24 AM
Excuse me, but Louise of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha was the victim of her own idiocy.

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2006, 11:05:52 AM
Yes...But she did say that he spread rumours about her. Judging from his usual behavior I tend to believe that he would have loved to assist in her fall (not that she was totally innocent I agree). Sisi was very bitter about the "lies" he spread about her.  >:(
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eurohistory on February 28, 2006, 05:50:14 PM
No one but Louise is reponsible for what ills befell her.  She could have conducted her affair with Matachich quietly, instead of parading him throughout Europe and expecting that everyone was going to turn a blind eye to her outrageous behavior.  Her idiotic behavior is the only one responsible for what gossip was passed around about her...Louise has only herself to blame.

As for the Empress Elisabeth...well that's another basket case...

Arturo Beéche
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 28, 2006, 09:16:51 PM
Well...It didn't help either basket cases to have a gossipmonger like Bibi to broadcast acid about your private life around. It is the kind of friend you don't need and the enemy you dread. In the end, he got his just desserts being exiled from Vienna (effectively from doing more harm to other Hapsburgs). Amen !  >:(
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Yseult on April 29, 2006, 12:18:22 PM
Any one of you knows about the thoughts and feelings of Archduchess Sophie to this...well...unconventional...son?  :-/

I´m trying to imagine the reaction of Sophie and...frankly, I cannot!

Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Pierce on April 29, 2006, 03:51:34 PM
Did Archduchess Sophie try to marry Ludwig Victor to any eligible princesses? If she did who were they?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Linnea on April 30, 2006, 08:49:36 AM
Quote
Did Archduchess Sophie try to marry Ludwig Victor to any eligible princesses? If she did who were they?

Yes, she indeed tried to marry away him - actually to none other than Duchess Sophie in Bavaria, Empress Elisabeth´s younger sister, who later became Duchess of Alencon.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 30, 2006, 10:27:34 AM
Quote
Did Archduchess Sophie try to marry Ludwig Victor to any eligible princesses? If she did who were they?

Ludwig Victor's elder brother Maximilian, Emperor of Mexico, wanted Ludwig Victor to marry Isabel, Princess Imperial of Brazil (1846-1921). Max and his wife Charlotte didn't have any children. So Ludwig should succeed him. It was his plan to rule over Mexico and Brazil one day - on condition that Ludwig and Isabel were married, Max could have reached his goal. But Ludwig refused.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on October 24, 2006, 07:35:56 AM
In the book "Stephanie - Im Schatten von Mayerling" that Ludwig Viktor was in love with a Princess Lobkowitz. And he wanted to marry her. But she didn´t belong to a governing House and Archduchesse Sophie prevented this marriage. Could anybody tell me something about Princess Lobkowitz?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on October 24, 2006, 08:53:57 AM
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f359/palethingirl/ludwig.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: britt.25 on October 24, 2006, 10:17:35 AM
That´s a good picture. Here he looks quite "normal" in comparison to the pictures, I have seen before. The beart makes him more "a man", I think. He still looks a bit like an "overgenerated" member of the Habsburg family, but still better than the pictures before.  It´s strange that all brothers seem so different to me: Franz Josepph did not have that degenerated face at all , in my opinion, he looked a bit Habsburg, but not like that, Maximilian was also quite longish in his features and Karl Ludwig was quite "normal".... It´s strange, because their mother Sophie wasn´t a Habsburg at all... :o
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 24, 2006, 10:21:27 PM
I like the crossed-dressed ones better !  ;D They are more fun to look.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Maximilano on November 27, 2006, 02:37:49 PM
Ludwig Victor was Gay. He had to hide from a very represive society. He was exiled from Vienna and lieved a quiet and sort of discrete life. Quiet because being the brother of the emperor he was always in the limelight and was forced to live in the twilight zone. He was an art colector, loved opera, music, theatre and became patron to various artists. Had little contact to his family and never married.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: umigon on November 27, 2006, 05:07:23 PM
I wouldn't say his life was quiet and discreet. It might have been after he was sent to the Castle of Klesheim in 1875 after  leading a scandalous life in Vienna. In fact, the Emperor forced him to go there because he had threatened a man in a spa after he violently refused to have sexual intercourse with him.

He was also a gossipy man, always talking about everyone. He was in very good terms with Sisi, until she realised she was also one of the victims of his poisoned tongue.

In 1914 he was officially declared mad, although I don't know if this was true, it was just an illness produced by old age or a way of legitimating the Emperor's decision. As the declaration was published 39 years after he was expelled from the Court, I would say the most plausible option would be the second one.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 27, 2006, 08:23:59 PM
Yes...Sisi was not the only victim, Louise of Belgium was another...But she too was indistreet.  :o

Didn't know too much about his last years...after his exile that is.  ???
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Oliver on December 17, 2006, 04:29:56 PM
Those photo's are hilarious :) Ludwig Victor seems such an interesting Hapsburg Archduke, its a shame there's little written information on him and the unorthodox life he led.

CFH Mexico, I think Ludwig Victor was bisexual rather than homosexual, he had a few affairs with women, two being Princess Lobkowitz (whom Rani mentioned) and a dancer called Claudine Couqui, he carried a small photo album of Claudine around with him everywhere.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 17, 2006, 08:27:01 PM
I know about the tale about him invited soliders to dip in his pool but did not offer them any bathing clothes. So they had to swim naked... :P
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: RealAnastasia on December 19, 2006, 06:48:39 PM
I never heard about this one, and I agree...It should be very interesting to know more about him, and have a book about this Franz Joseph's brother. And of course, I'm one of those who wonders about Archiduchess Sophie's reactions... ;D

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 20, 2006, 02:26:05 AM
Indeed...there are chapters on him in Austria in books about the Hapsburgs.  ;)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Oliver on December 20, 2006, 05:32:14 AM
I'm looking for some more books to read on the Hapburgs, I've only read John Van Der Kiste's biography on Francis Joseph.  :-\

Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 20, 2006, 02:57:21 PM
There is a book called Historische Photographien aus den Alben des Kaiserbruders Erzherzog Ludwig Victor by Gabriele Praschl-Bichler. It contains many pictures, but also a lot of facts about Ludwig Victor's life.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: britt.25 on December 25, 2006, 08:26:58 AM
Thanks, MarieCharlotte, for the picture and the tite of the book. Is it easy to buy here in Germany?
I don´t know many pictures of Ludwig Victor and do not know so much about his life as well. This picture is very nice, he looks better than on pictures later. I think here he still looks a bit similar to Franz Joseph, whereas later his looking differs much from that of his brother Franz Joseph!

Thanks! :)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: MarieCharlotte on December 25, 2006, 08:58:08 AM
Thanks, MarieCharlotte, for the picture and the tite of the book. Is it easy to buy here in Germany?

Although this book seems to be out of print, it is quite easy to find on the internet. You can order it on amazon, for example.

Link: http://www.amazon.de/Historische-Photographien-Kaiserbruders-Erzherzog-Ludwig/dp/3850024385/sr=11-1/qid=1167058595/ref=sr_11_1/028-9595279-4795768 (http://www.amazon.de/Historische-Photographien-Kaiserbruders-Erzherzog-Ludwig/dp/3850024385/sr=11-1/qid=1167058595/ref=sr_11_1/028-9595279-4795768)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: britt.25 on December 25, 2006, 11:10:03 AM
Well, many thanks :)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on November 18, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2hyjwuc.jpg)

(http://i33.tinypic.com/2vtp6qf.jpg)

I don´t know why, but I like Ludwig Vktor:) He was strange and not boring like the other archdukes.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 18, 2008, 04:07:29 PM
Yes he was definitely STRANGE !
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: José on November 19, 2008, 10:18:24 AM
Thanks, MarieCharlotte, for the picture and the tite of the book. Is it easy to buy here in Germany?

Although this book seems to be out of print, it is quite easy to find on the internet. You can order it on amazon, for example.

Link: http://www.amazon.de/Historische-Photographien-Kaiserbruders-Erzherzog-Ludwig/dp/3850024385/sr=11-1/qid=1167058595/ref=sr_11_1/028-9595279-4795768 (http://www.amazon.de/Historische-Photographien-Kaiserbruders-Erzherzog-Ludwig/dp/3850024385/sr=11-1/qid=1167058595/ref=sr_11_1/028-9595279-4795768)


Wow !  I had no idea Gabriele Praschl-Bichler had such a vast work.
When I was in Vienna, almost 10 years ago, I bought the Karl and Zita family album.
I just found it on Amazon at € 115,00 !!!  I will treasure it ;-)

My german is not that good, but I loved that book and its photos and to the best of my knowledge all the data seemed correct.
Is Gabriele P-B considered a reputed history writer or are her books mainly photo albums ?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 19, 2008, 01:08:38 PM
I think both although some thought her writing were too soft on her subjects.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Maximilano on November 28, 2008, 10:55:25 AM
He was mostly an artist; you can see that throughout his life. He had a different approach towards life in a "Victorian" age.
His enigmatic or extravagant way of life would be in accordance with today's accepted and liaises faire way. He would not be "out of tune" in today's world.
Great pictures. I had not seen them before!
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on November 28, 2008, 02:39:23 PM
Well...He was ahead of his times I guess. He might get married like Elton John if he is alive today.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Princess Susan on November 28, 2008, 03:49:05 PM
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2hyjwuc.jpg)


He reminds me on this photo, his older brother Maximilian a bit.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on November 28, 2008, 04:14:19 PM
(http://i33.tinypic.com/120gxtd.jpg)

(http://i36.tinypic.com/n5jxtz.jpg)

Here like his father Franz Carl.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Jose II on November 29, 2008, 12:28:00 PM
Is this the palace where he died ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Klessheim
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on November 29, 2008, 01:21:09 PM
Yes, he died in the Kavallierhaus of the castle.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Bourgogne on December 02, 2008, 10:50:17 AM
Here are some photographs of Archduke Ludwig Victor (1842-1919). He was the youngest brother of Emperor Franz Joseph. In his family he was called Bubi or der kleine Ludwig (= little Ludwig).

I hope I can make you laugh ...  ;D

(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ludwigvictor02.jpg)

Ludwig wearing a dress


(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ludwigvictor06.jpg)

Ludwig (on the far left) with sons of Philipp of Württemberg - hot swimsuits  :o


(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ludwigvictor10.jpg)

Ludwig as a woman and as a man (photomontage?)

I'm sorry, I can't see these photographs, could someone post them one more time?

His sister-in-law, Louise of Belgium (archduchess Stéphanie's sister) says in her french Mémoires ("Autour des trônes que j'ai vus tomber") that Ludwig-Viktor was charming and wanted to seduce her... But she declined... And Ludwig-Viktor never forgave this and became her worst enemy...
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Princess Susan on December 03, 2008, 03:08:12 PM
Actually Elisabeth was quite fond of him in the beginning, but later he started with intrigues against her. Therefore she disliked him.
He was not very popular at court in common. Most of people disliked his insincere character.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 03, 2008, 03:17:57 PM
Yes...quite a snake (his charecter)...I wonder if it was due to bitterness in his life ?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on December 03, 2008, 04:59:22 PM
can someone please repost the crossdressing pictures?
i cant see them :(
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Veronica on December 04, 2008, 10:12:19 AM
I found this one:

(http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3852/ludwigvicktor15b1fu8.jpg)

He looks really odd!!
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on December 04, 2008, 10:15:23 AM
O.o  holy crap!
dude looks like a lady!
wow...
so umm...how did the family feel about erm..this?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on December 04, 2008, 12:27:11 PM
I could see how back then they would be  a bit umm...unaccepting...
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 04, 2008, 02:03:25 PM
I think we have yet to see an openly gay royal...in Europe.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: beladona on February 23, 2009, 03:32:30 PM
And he was probably the only one of the brothers, who was often photographed in civil dress (I mean except the ladies dress:), not only in uniform...
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 23, 2010, 01:39:04 PM
Ludwig Viktor among other people . From the ANNO

(http://i50.tinypic.com/352gh9v.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: newfan on May 23, 2010, 09:21:19 PM
I found this one:



He looks really odd!!
Not sure if this was answered but
Who took the picture?wouldn't His brother  The Emperor  or the Family Try to distroy the picture?
Whats the story behind the picture?
Thank you
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 24, 2010, 08:13:57 AM
here s another picture of Ludwig Viktor dressed as a woman. I think it was from the same period.



(http://i48.tinypic.com/33yt0xv.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 24, 2010, 08:59:11 AM
I wonder what Archduchess Sofie thought about Bubi's antics ?
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 17, 2010, 09:39:58 AM
Old Archduke

(http://i49.tinypic.com/aynix0.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 17, 2010, 06:24:34 PM
I think only middle aged, there is a photo of him as an old man in an Austrian photo book on him. The cover photo that is.
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on June 17, 2010, 06:31:04 PM
I found this one:

(http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/3852/ludwigvicktor15b1fu8.jpg)

He looks really odd!!

I have found this picture in an old book: Ludwig Viktor with 3 court members in a play. In the middle a man who plays a woman, too.

(http://i947.photobucket.com/albums/ad313/Isana1988/IMAGE0035.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Rani on June 17, 2010, 06:53:26 PM
I think he would give himself the name Ludwig Viktoria

Half male, half female :)


I read in Irmgard Schiels book about Stephanie, that Ludwig was in love with a princess Lobkowitz. Ludwigs mother was against it. Which princess was it??
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 18, 2010, 07:17:49 AM
hahaha awesome!!! thank so much

Ludwig Viktor wth Phillip of Wurtemberg and his son Ulrich (?)

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2rh5xlf.jpg)
Title: Re: Archduke Ludwig Victor
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 18, 2010, 09:19:09 AM
Well...At least they still got their swimming trunks on. Unlike the soldiers that Ludwig Victor invited to his pool had to swim in the nude... :D