Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Windsors => Topic started by: nada on February 27, 2006, 10:15:17 AM

Title: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: nada on February 27, 2006, 10:15:17 AM
I was once told a story about 35 years ago by a woman who was then in her 60's. She said she believed that she was the great grandaughter of Prince Alfred Duke of Edinburgh( QV 's second son). She told me that apparently Affie ran away and married a woman and had a child before he was made to marry Marie Alexandrovna of Russia.
The grandfather of my friend, when he was a child was made to go to Hyde Park on occasions with his mother to watch the ‘carriages go by’.  Maybe someone was wanting to see the child. Also , as a single mother and child someone was paying their living quarters somewhere in London. They never wanted for anything. When my friend’s family tried to find information on the marriage many,many years ago, certain pages had been removed from the Register.  The marriage appeared to annulled.  Does anyone know anything about this episode. Sounds far-fetched but intriguing never the less.  The funny thing was this lady looked a bit like QV!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Booklady on February 27, 2006, 11:07:27 AM
Since we're talking about Affie here, I was reading about him the other day regarding the assassination attempt on his life when he was apparently shot in the back.  No explanation was given for the attack.  Does anyone know why?  Also, was Affie as wild or careless regarding women as Bertie was before he finally married?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Alicky1872 on February 27, 2006, 11:23:56 AM
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apparently Affie ran away and married a woman


He should have stayed away!  Muhha ha ha ha!  ;D
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Alicky1872 on February 27, 2006, 11:27:32 AM
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Since we're talking about Affie here, I was reading about him the other day regarding the assassination attempt on his life when he was apparently shot in the back.  No explanation was given for the attack.  Does anyone know why?


A Fenian named James O'Farrell shot Affie in the back. Thankfully his leather braces (or suspenders for you Americans) deflected the bullet from hiting his spine, but it nonetheless became lodged in his abdomen.  :-/ The bullet was removed two days later and he made a surprisingly quick and easy recovery.

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Grace on February 27, 2006, 02:20:56 PM
Nada, there was a rumour about Young Affie (Alfred and Marie's only son) that claimed he married illicitly and had a child. Marlene Koenig says there is no truth to this story at all.

You are not thinking of this?  :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on February 27, 2006, 04:56:34 PM
There were also the rumors about Alfred's nephew (and fellow sailor) George V that could add to confusion.

Alfred's was very lucky to have survived his attack--one wonders what would've happened if the Queen of England's son had been assassinated by Fenians? Not good I'm sure.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: anabel on February 27, 2006, 05:15:43 PM
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He should have stayed away!  Muhha ha ha ha!  ;D

;D ;D
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: nada on February 28, 2006, 03:29:52 AM
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Nada, there was a rumour about Young Affie (Alfred and Marie's only son) that claimed he married illicitly and had a child. Marlene Koenig says there is no truth to this story at all.

You are not thinking of this?  :)

Well it could have been that but according to this old friend of mine ( she is now dead) the family were very sure that 'he' (which one I don't know) had married illicitly to a commoner had a child a boy and all details of the marriage had been erased.  She also told me that the woman (the mother) carried a black box around with her all her life and when she went to hospital to die the black box disappeared!  All a bit far fetched but I have to say I was intrigued when I heard the story all those years ago.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: nada on February 28, 2006, 03:31:34 AM
By the way who is Marlene Koenig- I am a newbie here!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Alicky1872 on February 28, 2006, 03:49:40 AM
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By the way who is Marlene Koenig- I am a newbie here!


Marlene Koenig is an art form, a way of life!!  ;D (Sorry, I put a bit too much sugar on my cheerios this morning!) No---Marlene is the author of an excellent book called Queen Victoria's Descendants (required reading, it's official) and she is also a forum member.  :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 28, 2006, 02:10:05 PM
I decided that the other thread was too long.  Anyways, a picture of Affie Jr.'s fiancee:
Quote
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/fampic.jpg)

Twins with their mother, grandmother and the spouse of...Olga/Elsa???

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Linnea on February 28, 2006, 03:19:39 PM
She wasn´t really his financée. The mothers were cousins and good friends and wanted to marry off their children. But the Württembergs were chocked when they heared about Affie´s lifestyle... :-/
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 28, 2006, 04:00:59 PM
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Young Affie's engagement was published in the Court Circular - which is about as official as you can get.

 
 If they were officially engaged, wouldn't that mean Elsa was Alfred's fiancee?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Linnea on February 28, 2006, 04:03:44 PM
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  If they were officially engaged, wouldn't that mean Elsa was Alfred's fiancee?


Ops! I have actually never heared of this, but when Marlene says that, it must be right! ;D
Sorry if I have confused you, LenelorMiksi!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on February 28, 2006, 04:17:55 PM
  Well, I had to go back on the Affie Jr. thread to make sure.  I wonder what exactly they found out about?  It was pretty common for young princes to sleep around before they married (and, unfortunately, after they married).  I guess the Würrtembergs found out he had contracted syphilis.  I wonder what Affie and Elsa thought of each other?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Booklady on March 01, 2006, 05:23:52 AM
Someone made a comment about Affie's "lifestyle."  Can you elaborate?    How good, how bad?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Grace on March 01, 2006, 04:34:48 PM
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Someone made a comment about Affie's "lifestyle."  Can you elaborate?    How good, how bad?


I'm a bit confused here about which Affie we are talking about?

Young Affie had a sad life.  After a fairly love-starved childhood, he became involved with prostitutes, "all night sex orgies" and the like at a very young age.  It is said that he contracted syphilis and this contributed to his early death, though there is much argument here.

The other Affie (1844-1900) did have a documented dalliance whilst in the Navy before his marriage but I have not heard anything about other women after it but, as this marriage was never a particularly happy one, I certainly wouldn't be surprised if he had sought love outside of it that we don't know about.  ???
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on March 10, 2006, 10:15:21 AM
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Prince Alfred Duke of Edinburgh( QV 's second son)


I believe the discussion began with Prince Alfred, Sr.  

Queen Victoria wrote to Vicky about his deplorable behavior soon after Albert's death, in a manner which indicates he had affairs.  It's altogether possible (in my view) that he secretly married and fathered a child.  He wasn't watched as closely as Bertie because he was the second son, and he was usually out of the country.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Grace on March 10, 2006, 02:37:30 PM
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I believe the discussion began with Prince Alfred, Sr.  

Queen Victoria wrote to Vicky about his deplorable behavior soon after Albert's death, in a manner which indicates he had affairs.  It's altogether possible (in my view) that he secretly married and fathered a child.  He wasn't watched as closely as Bertie because he was the second son, and he was usually out of the country.


Well, I have never heard of this rumour.  I think an affair or two is one thing but I can't imagine one of QV's children being able to marry and have a child without it filtering back to her, even when she was in the early stages of grief over losing Albert.

If he was under 25 at the time, she could have had it annulled also.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Grace on March 10, 2006, 02:42:12 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Obesemia/alfredbritain1844-3.jpg)
Alfred
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marlene on March 12, 2006, 03:03:36 PM
Affie was only 16 when his father died.  

It would been impossible for the 16 year old to have a secret marriage.

The rumors (well, not rumors, but a fabricated story) center around Affie's son, young Affie, who was rumored to have married and fathered a daughter - the story is entirely bogus

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I believe the discussion began with Prince Alfred, Sr.  

Queen Victoria wrote to Vicky about his deplorable behavior soon after Albert's death, in a manner which indicates he had affairs.  It's altogether possible (in my view) that he secretly married and fathered a child.  He wasn't watched as closely as Bertie because he was the second son, and he was usually out of the country.

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marlene on March 12, 2006, 03:06:56 PM
As members of the Royal family are bound by the Royal Marriages act, Prince Affie could not have gotten married without permission.  Of course, there were marriages in contravention of the Royal marriage act (such as the Duke of  Cambridge, where the the wife and children did not share the Duke's royal rank or name)  It would have been unlikely for Affie to have contracted such a marriage without garnering press attention - he would not have been able to go before a minister in an English church without anyone finding out ... now, he may have fathered illegitimate children because he did have mistresses, but he he never acknowledged them.
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I was once told a story about 35 years ago by a woman who was then in her 60's. She said she believed that she was the great grandaughter of Prince Alfred Duke of Edinburgh( QV 's second son). She told me that apparently Affie ran away and married a woman and had a child before he was made to marry Marie Alexandrovna of Russia.
The grandfather of my friend, when he was a child was made to go to Hyde Park on occasions with his mother to watch the ‘carriages go by’.  Maybe someone was wanting to see the child. Also , as a single mother and child someone was paying their living quarters somewhere in London. They never wanted for anything. When my friend’s family tried to find information on the marriage many,many years ago, certain pages had been removed from the Register.  The marriage appeared to annulled.  Does anyone know anything about this episode. Sounds far-fetched but intriguing never the less.  The funny thing was this lady looked a bit like QV!

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marlene on March 12, 2006, 03:09:15 PM
now this made my day  

:D


Quote

Marlene Koenig is an art form, a way of life!!  ;D (Sorry, I put a bit too much sugar on my cheerios this morning!) No---Marlene is the author of an excellent book called Queen Victoria's Descendants (required reading, it's official) and she is also a forum member.  :)

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marlene on March 12, 2006, 05:31:19 PM
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She wasn´t really his financée. The mothers were cousins and good friends and wanted to marry off their children. But the Württembergs were chocked when they heared about Affie´s lifestyle... :-/



the engagement was officially announced in the Court Circular
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on March 12, 2006, 07:21:03 PM
I would be interested to know what Elsa felt when she heard of Affie's death.  :'(
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on March 12, 2006, 08:12:06 PM
Marlene,

It was long overdue!!!!


TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Alicky1872 on March 13, 2006, 03:43:58 AM
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now this made my day  

 :D




Glad I could be of service!  ;D  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on June 02, 2006, 09:16:49 PM
Here are some that show the resemblance--I tried to pick ones where Missy's facial position is similar to Alfred's.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/balkans/HE9877.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/balkans/92_31.jpg)

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: ilyala on June 03, 2006, 03:32:12 AM
indeed he does...  :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Laura_ on June 03, 2006, 03:38:46 AM
Missy of Edinburgh was the most beautiful princess ever   ::) the second pic is eloquent!:)engagement time isn't it?:)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 03, 2006, 12:18:14 PM
I think young Affie could be charming if he liked. The smiling photo of him, Baby Bee and Elsa proved it.

Missy was indeed beautiful, but she had not Ella's serenity or her Aunt Alix's child-like charm.  :P
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on June 04, 2006, 09:01:24 AM
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I think young Affie could be charming if he liked. The smiling photo of him, Baby Bee and Elsa proved it.

Missy was indeed beautiful, but she had not Ella's serenity or her Aunt Alix's child-like charm.  :P


Missy was a woman 30 years ahead of her time!


TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 04, 2006, 10:25:00 PM
Indeed ! She would have been considered foward evern by today's standard.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eddie_uk on June 18, 2006, 10:09:04 AM
I was wondering. Where Missys early memoirs not published in the early 1930s?? As a number of people she wrote about where still living, including her cousins, do you think they read them? I wonder what they thought??
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: ilyala on June 18, 2006, 12:15:50 PM
i know i read somewhere that king ferdinand of bulgaria told missy after he read her memoires: 'you described me just like i would have described myself. (not an exact quote)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Speedycat on June 18, 2006, 09:21:03 PM
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I think young Affie could be charming if he liked. The smiling photo of him, Baby Bee and Elsa proved it.

Missy was indeed beautiful, but she had not Ella's serenity or her Aunt Alix's child-like charm.  :P


Eric, am I missing something?  Where can I see the photo of Affie, Baby Bee and Elsa?  Can you post a link to it please  ::)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 18, 2006, 09:42:14 PM
I think it might be in the Baby Bee thread...I think Laurra may have posted it.  :-?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eddie_uk on June 19, 2006, 05:16:08 AM
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i know i read somewhere that king ferdinand of bulgaria told missy after he read her memoires: 'you described me just like i would have described myself. (not an exact quote)

Thank you! It would be interesting to know what the likes of Queen Maud etc thought of them! :)

Beautiful pic thank you Laura!  :-*
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: ilyala on June 19, 2006, 05:37:32 AM
i don't remember reading much about maud in missy's memoires. people who were often mentioned (besides her parents and siblings) were king george v of england, sometimes his wife may, nicholas and alexandra were mentioned quite a lot, her russian uncles, william 2nd of germany and his sister, charlotte... william was alive when the memoires were published, i believe, and she didn't describe him in a very positive light (but then again, who could?  ;D). i wonder what he thought of it...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 19, 2006, 11:21:55 AM
Most likely Willy thought of Missy as an immoral woman, who had a lot of affairs. Marie Coburg was quite depressed that Sandra's affair got as far as Berlin. It reconfirms what the Prussian court of her daughters... :(
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eddie_uk on June 21, 2006, 03:40:47 PM
Thank you ilyala. Apparently Missy thought her Wales cousins were always saying "poor little..." this "poor little" that!

I would love to get hold of a copy of her early memoirs I bet they are interesting to read! :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on June 21, 2006, 07:50:06 PM
Laurra,

Thank you for all the lovey pictures.  I have not forgotten about your book.


TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 21, 2006, 09:02:50 PM
Apparently her "Aunt Alix" made more of an impression to Missy than her Wales's cousins.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: ilyala on June 22, 2006, 03:21:23 AM
that's not surprising, missy was in awe of alexandra's beauty.  she was quite fond of george too. i can't think of her mentioning any other of her wales cousins in particular...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on June 22, 2006, 05:13:22 AM
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that's not surprising, missy was in awe of alexandra's beauty.  she was quite fond of george too. i can't think of her mentioning any other of her wales cousins in particular...

Missy also mentions Ella.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Laura_ on June 22, 2006, 08:52:42 AM
Missy on both Alexandra and Ella

" Today I still feel grateful to beloved Queen Alexandra for the vision of beauty she was to me that evening in her velvet gown, as I also remember, later in life, how another beautiful woman of our family moved me to such a degree of enchantment that I felt like falling down before her and worshiping her as the pagans of old worshiped their goddesses.

This other beautiful woman had a tragic and terrible fate. She was the Grand Duchess Elisabeth of Russia, my cousin, sister of the late Czarina. She had married one of my mother's younger brothers, the Grand Duke Serge. He was blown up by Nihilists, long, long before the revolution, whilst governor of Moscow. She then entered holy orders, building a convent in which she lived; but her holy life brought her no mercy from the Bolsheviks. She was abominably slaughtered in Siberia, but, curiously enough, her body was found and later on transported to Jerusalem, where it now lies in the Holy Land.

SHE was quite newly married when her beauty burst upon me as a marvelous revelation. Her loveliness was of what used to be called the "angelic" kind. Her eyes, her lips, her smile, her hands, the way she looked at you, the way she talked, the way she moved, all was exquisite beyond words; it almost brought tears to your eyes.

She was so fairy-like in apparition that i would like to dip my pen in colour so as to be able to make her live again if only for a moment ,because eyes that beheld her would never be able to conceive what she was "

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Natalya on June 22, 2006, 10:20:26 AM
I think Ella and Missy were the two most beautiful in the entire family.  Of course, inner beauty must have made Ella appear to be nearly celestial.  

As I have stated in another thread, I feel that people today really put a greater emphasis on beauty than is needed.  So many write about Grand Duchess Marie (the Duchess of Edinburgh) as "homely," "not pretty," and on occasion just plain "ugly."  But I found this photo of her as a very young woman, and I think this clearly shows where Missy, Sandra and Affie Jr. inherited their lighter features and in particular, their eyes.  Ducky (who I just adore) and Baby B seem to have the dark, swarthy look of their father (a handsome man, in his own right).

Grand Duchess Marie, at least to me, looks very pretty in this pose.  And I hope others will see that in her and lighten up a little on being so critical of her looks.  I'd hate to think that a hundred years from now, people are looking at photos of me and writing about how unattractive I was ...

(http://cheddarbay.com/0000Romanov/youngmarie3.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on June 22, 2006, 04:02:25 PM
Grand Duchess Marie was very attractive as a young woman.  However, like many of us, she did not age well.

Think about your last High School Class Reunion?  ;D ;D ;D  LOL! LOL!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Grace on June 22, 2006, 05:12:01 PM
There was nothing wrong with Grand Duchess Marie's looks at all, in my book.  Perhaps, rather than the ageing process, I think her rigid approach to life and her discontent with it showed on her face as she grew older, not to mention the tragic losses she experienced, namely her father and her only son.  
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 22, 2006, 09:10:39 PM
Well...Marie Coburg was an attractive girl, but not classically beautiful like Alix of Denmark or Elisabeth of Bavaria. She grew up with a bunch of boys and not quite feminine (unlike her beautiful and vain daughter Marie of Romania), and grew almost butch in her later years. On top of that, she was a straight talker and tell things as it is (sometimes the truth really hurts).  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: ilyala on June 23, 2006, 05:44:58 AM
i agree with this. even today people's looks are judged based on the clothes they wear and the way they move. i had this classmate in highschool that was quite pretty but dressed like a guy and all the boys made fun of her and called her ugly. i never understood what exactly they saw that was ugly at her. same goes with grand duchess marie. she was not the most beautiful woman in the world but i find her quite pretty, pretty much like any young woman (i think there are very few young women who are not pretty in their own way). but she probably had the moves and the words of a tomboy and that might have not made her very attractive in the eyes of the opposite sex.

i sometimes wonder if this is exactly what attracted affie to her. even if many men are afraid of women who are too honest, most of them admire them and the most courageous even try to be with them. you must remember that affie defied his mother and marie had to be pretty stubborn too for them to get married (alexander 2nd was not very happy about the match himself). i have always wondered how the two got along. missy doesn't mention it in her memoires and i haven't read anything of it.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on June 23, 2006, 05:45:08 AM
What I find interesting is that the two leading English beauties of their day, Alexandra and Jenny Churchill, were close friends with Marie.  

Marie was not intimidated by another women's beauthy superior to her own.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 23, 2006, 07:37:56 AM
I think Affie and Marie Coburg had a nice early married life. However as they aged the marriage also aged (and not for the best). Affie was unhappy about Marie 's decision to marry off Missy to Nando (he had hoped Missy and Georgie would be wedded), and did redoubled his efforts to get Ducky with Ernie (with awful results). When young Affie died, the two became further estranged. The two were never reconcilled.  :-/
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on June 23, 2006, 12:14:19 PM
Affie was away alot and that naturally drove separations between he and his wife, not to mention the children. As far as young Affie is concerned, I don't think Affie agreed with Marie's treatment of the situation. When the worst happened as a result she was easy to put blame on.

Besides I am not sure Affie and Marie were ever really in love with one another.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on June 23, 2006, 12:23:55 PM
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There was nothing wrong with Grand Duchess Marie's looks at all, in my book.  Perhaps, rather than the ageing process, I think her rigid approach to life and her discontent with it showed on her face as she grew older, not to mention the tragic losses she experienced, namely her father and her only son.  


She was quite pretty as a young women but it did not take long for her to become quite matronly. She really did not age well, like many of her brothers and other Romanovs of her generation. He was always on the verge of being a little chubby and after a few children she was permanently heavy.

As she had grown up with boys and was likely not as concerned with her personal appearance, like other European princesses of the day, she probably did little to preserve her looks into middle and older age.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on June 23, 2006, 07:58:25 PM
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I think Affie and Marie Coburg had a nice early married life. /

Six children in 10 years ( Afred, Miisy, Ducky, Sister Sandra, Miscarriage, Baby Bee).  Yes, I would say they had a healthy early marriage.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on June 23, 2006, 09:14:27 PM
I think that Marie loved him but he was never 'in love' with her--that's the impression I get. I'm sure her money was a factor but she had other recommendations--they both enjoyed music (and she didn't make him plop down and play the violin like Elizabeth of Wied!) and culture and she was very intelligent and well-educated. She certainly wasn't ugly, even if she wasn't a great beauty. It was probably a pretty satisfactory marriage in the early years but didn't have enough that was strong and solid to withstand the various difficulties--her trouble adjusting to England, his long naval deployments, his drinking, trouble with their children--that were to come.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 23, 2006, 11:43:32 PM
Yes...I think they enjoyed each other's company when they were younger. Marie was a breath of fresh air into the family. One must give her credit for holding her own ground towards QV, who had the habit of bossing everybody around. Also she was unbending towards some issues that put her wishes and those of her husband into opposite camps (the marriages of their children was only one of them). However having said that, Marie did go out of her way to be agreeable to her husband's family (especially the poor widowed Princess Beatrice (Princess Henry of Battenberg), and subsequently naming one of her daughters after her). ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: CountessKate on July 05, 2006, 04:47:20 AM
I think Marie Edinburgh illustrates the great tragedy of a time when it was unthinkable that a highly intelligent, well-educated woman should actually have a job.  She wasn't interested in clothes, jewels, or social events, her husband's job was not something she could effectively share in, and the long life of wicked Ernest of Coburg meant she couldn't get on with running a duchy or something genuinely worthwhile until quite late in the day.  Instead she put all that energy into her family and more specifically, her daughters - the only area of life where it was considered acceptable for a woman to have total control.  I do think that was at the root of that rather horrid bullying of Missie into marriage with the rather hopeless Ferdinand, and going along with Ducky marrying Ernie - two daughters married to rulers, or potential rulers, top marriage accomplishments for an ambitious mother.  I also wonder if the fact that her son was the only child whose education and upbringing made him independent of her, was at the bottom of the really dreadful neglect of him at the end of his life.  I don't think she was shocked at his iniquity, but was unable to deal with someone who did not fall naturally within her control.  If Affie had inherited Coburg much earlier, and she had been helping him run the duchy, I feel she would have had a much better outlet for her genuine abilities and been a much better mother as she would have been a much less frustrated person.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: TampaBay on July 05, 2006, 05:34:40 AM
Kate,

I think you are on to something.  I  ever though about GD Marie in this regard.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 05, 2006, 09:28:48 AM
Well...It must also be said that being the only daughter among a bunch of boys made her a bit of a tomboy. She was also spoiled by her father and her brothers. When she married Affie, Marie experienced once that she was not number one and resented it. It was not until that the Coburgs moved to Germany that she escaped the obit of Grandmama Queen.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Faberge on July 10, 2006, 01:45:29 AM
Quote
young affie:

(http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/c/c4/AlfredSGC.jpeg)

He was certainly  charming here and when older looked rather like a used car salesman, with more or less squinty eyes. Yes, I think Prince Philip would agree.  ;D
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 10, 2006, 02:35:57 AM
He had a fuller face like Marie Coburg, but also resembled a bit like Missy to be charming.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Aliss_Kande on July 27, 2006, 09:53:38 PM
I asked this question somewhere else, but can we see some more pictures of the Edinburghs as children? ???
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 27, 2006, 09:56:43 PM
Mabe you should buy the book on Queen Victoria's family by Charlotte Zeepvat. It has loads and loads of baby pictures including quite a lot from the Edinburgh family.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Aliss_Kande on July 27, 2006, 09:58:49 PM
Okay, Thank you.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: pouvoir aux canards on August 02, 2006, 06:12:47 PM
  Some gift for Marie's fanatics ... if the pictures are news :


http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501110415_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501110413_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501110420_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501110414_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501110417_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501110521_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501120561_ful.html#topofimage

http://www.geh.org/ar/celeb/m197501121766_ful.html#topofimage

 ;D ;D ;D

Behind  the horses it seems to be Sinaia Castle built by Carol's will... Pelec I guess...

Any picture of Dear Marie with his dear Elisabeth?? Or with Carol I ??
 ;D ::) ;D

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 02, 2006, 08:43:20 PM
Interesting. I do like Missy and her brood, but since this thread is about the Edinburghs/Coburgs. I would like to see more of Missy with Ducky, Sandra and baby Bee. Some of little Alfie will be nice too...I wonder if there is an album of photos of the girls in Malta. I am sure there must be quite a few photos of those years.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: pouvoir aux canards on August 03, 2006, 03:18:11 AM
Interesting. I do like Missy and her brood, but since this thread is about the Edinburghs/Coburgs. I would like to see more of Missy with Ducky, Sandra and baby Bee. Some of little Alfie will be nice too...I wonder if there is an album of photos of the girls in Malta. I am sure there must be quite a few photos of those years.  ;)

    ???  ...and I would like to see Marie de Roumanie and Queen Elisabeth and/or Carol 1.  :)

The name of the castle is Peles (yesterday night I was tired) . He was build in German NeoSomething (NeoMedioeval ? NeoGothic??) on 1883 by Carol's will.  :-\
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 03, 2006, 03:26:34 AM
Maybe it would be nice for you to use the Romanian sites since they are THERE for THAT purpose. This is the Edinburgh site, in the Windsor section ! A little foray into Romania is fine but it would be wrong to highjack this into another Marie site !  >:(
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 03, 2006, 03:32:06 AM
Also Carman Sylvia and King Carol I does not belong in this thread ! You are actually off topic...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: pouvoir aux canards on August 04, 2006, 02:21:37 PM
refering to one message from MrsEddy in the closed topic, the Edinburghs cont. (NOTE: large images) :

...Affie got treated to a picnic in the mountains, while Ellisabeth's crowd put on a theatrical display of 'talent.' Missy noticed Affie's tell tale pouting (a sign that he was about to lose his temper) just before he exclaimed that it was 'outrageous' and that he had no wish to be part of this lunatic assylum! ...

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 04, 2006, 09:25:02 PM
Marie was always into fantasy and much of an actress...I think she was quite bored at that point.  :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Alicky1872 on August 05, 2006, 07:35:47 AM
refering to one message from MrsEddy in the closed topic, the Edinburghs cont. (NOTE: large images) :

...Affie got treated to a picnic in the mountains, while Ellisabeth's crowd put on a theatrical display of 'talent.' Missy noticed Affie's tell tale pouting (a sign that he was about to lose his temper) just before he exclaimed that it was 'outrageous' and that he had no wish to be part of this lunatic assylum! ...

I offer this - rather kitsch - picture of a feast organised by Marie :

 :D Thank you Pouvoir aux Canards! Looks like Missy had more in common with Elisabeth than she perhaps realised (or would admit to)!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 06, 2006, 01:26:15 AM
Well...But Missy had more coomon sense. Carman Slyvia let her imagination fly with her. ::) Thank God Marie Coburg was there to put her daughter back on the ground.  :P
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on September 15, 2007, 01:04:35 PM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/LenelorMiksi/MarieEdinburgh.jpg)

Another photo of little Missy!  I was trying to find a similar one of Ducky at the same sitting, but was unlucky.  Unfortunately, most of the Edinburgh pics on this site have disappeared!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on September 17, 2007, 02:37:24 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/marieedinburgh1853-11-1.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/Marie55.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/2c.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/1b.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/1.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/2b-1.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/svtfjdbgkfd.jpg)

here are some I saved to my photobucket...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on September 17, 2007, 02:40:32 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/Marie83.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/34w7896w5.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/EdinsMoretta.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/mariaandaffie.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/thumb_13xu-1161.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/mw54677.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/edinburghfamilywgeorgie18890aj.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/duckyssisteres.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/4897985745.jpg)

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on September 21, 2007, 09:08:05 AM
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/LenelorMiksi/Sandrayng.jpg)

Here's one of Sandra.  Sorry about the watermark, if anyone has this pic without it, please post!

Here's a couple of her older:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/LenelorMiksi/Sandra.jpg)

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: José on September 21, 2007, 10:46:06 AM

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/34w7896w5.jpg)


Can someone identify the persons in this pic, please ?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 21, 2007, 11:54:05 AM
Wow, she resembles Victoria Melita (Ducky) a lot! 
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/LenelorMiksi/Sandra.jpg)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/helenazar/VicMel.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on September 21, 2007, 12:25:45 PM

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/34w7896w5.jpg)


Can someone identify the persons in this pic, please ?

Sitting: Sandra, Alfred Sr, Missy
Standing: Bee, Ernie Hesse, Max Baden, Ducky, George Wales (later George V)

It's from the Royal Collection. There were a series of pictures taken then though I'm not sure what the occasion (if any besides having visitors) was.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 24, 2007, 04:12:55 AM
I think this photo was taken in Coburg at the yerar of Missy's confirmation.  :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on October 12, 2007, 08:25:43 AM
are there move pictures from that sitting avaliable? :-\
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on October 12, 2007, 09:30:53 AM
There's one of Beatrice--I think it's posted here. There's also a series of photos with Alfred Sr with his nephews Ernie (soon to be his son-in-law) and George (his favorite nephew) and one with Ernie, George and Alfred Jr. I can't be certain but I believe they would be from either this session or this visit since they were all together. I don't think they were taken at the gathering for Alfred Jr's coming of age (he looks to young) but that's a possibility.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Prince_Christopher on October 13, 2007, 10:48:39 PM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/EdinsMoretta.jpg)



Who are the ladies in this photo besides Marie of Edinburgh and here three elder daughters?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on October 13, 2007, 11:56:29 PM
it looks like Queen Victoria, her daughter Vicky Crown Princess of Prussia, Vicky's daughter Victoria...and Beatrice perhaps?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Keith on October 14, 2007, 05:40:38 AM
Yes, that is correct.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on October 14, 2007, 08:55:39 AM
(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e386/mashka1899/Prince%20Alfreds%20children/MissyDuckySandraBabyBee1888.jpg)

here;s another picture i think is cute
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Laura_ on January 11, 2008, 09:27:28 AM
this was posted here long ago ...
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/2767/16ak3.th.jpg) (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=16ak3.jpg)

from the same sitting ,click to enlarge
(http://img122.imageshack.us/img122/701/21680662893dd52e6b74oww8.th.jpg) (http://img122.imageshack.us/my.php?image=21680662893dd52e6b74oww8.jpg)

(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9411/385623076463e900f8dbij8.th.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=385623076463e900f8dbij8.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Linnea on January 11, 2008, 11:48:20 AM
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/9411/385623076463e900f8dbij8.th.jpg) (http://img412.imageshack.us/my.php?image=385623076463e900f8dbij8.jpg)

Beautiful pictures! Who is the old lady in this photo?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: jfkhaos on January 11, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
That's Ernest of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha's widow, Alexandrine of Baden.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 11, 2008, 11:28:57 PM
Yes...It was she. The long suffering wife.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Angie_H on January 12, 2008, 10:16:22 AM
who is the girl in the pic with Affie and Baby Bee?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: José on January 12, 2008, 10:48:07 AM
Elsa von Wurttemberg.
She was sort of engaged to Affie.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on January 12, 2008, 11:22:17 AM
Elsa von Wurttemberg.
She was sort of engaged to Affie.

No, that's not Elsa. I don't know who's that girl but she doesn't look like Elsa.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Teddy on January 12, 2008, 11:27:39 AM
Were did you got these photo's Laurra?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Laura_ on January 12, 2008, 12:13:17 PM
I posted the first pic here long ago. It comes from  Jesus Ibarra's  great site on Queen Victoria's Family.
The other two come from Victoria Melita's private album...the link was posted somewhere on the Hesse Board ( on the ''Elizabeth-daughter of Ernie'' thread i think) :-)

I don't know who's that lady either...she could be a friend of Beatrice.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 13, 2008, 10:34:30 PM
Someone confirmed it was Elsa.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on January 14, 2008, 02:15:44 AM
Someone confirmed it was Elsa.  ;)

And as always you can't exactly NAME who's that all-knowing someone. Light remark if you can't confirm your words.

The girl in question doesn't look like Elsa at all. Have you seen Elsa's photos?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 14, 2008, 04:48:15 AM
Yes I have. In fact it was I compared the picture with both girls (Elsa and her sister). It match one of them quite well.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on January 14, 2008, 08:43:42 AM
It match one of them quite well.

I still disagree. It match only in that case if one of them was a victim of plastic surgery 8)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on January 14, 2008, 11:03:12 AM
Yes I have. In fact it was I compared the picture with both girls (Elsa and her sister). It match one of them quite well.

Well,  it's time for a seriuos talk not about "match quite well" . I guess you compared faces/features and tried to find a similarity. If desired one can find a similarity even between very different faces (for example Julia Roberts is actually Jennifer Lopes, eh?).
 Did you look at the hair-styles, at the girls dresses? I mean  Beatrice she is definitely a teenager of 14-16 years old in the picture, she was born in 1884, her hair-style and dress is around the 1897-1899 years. Elsa and her twin Olga were born in 1876, and in 1896 they looked as here's :

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/DuchessVera_d-rs_1896_.jpg)

In 1897-1898 as here's

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/_-2.jpg)

In 1897-1898 both Elsa and Olga married, they looked like young women but not like the teenagers - Beatrice and her friend.

So I don't believe that's Elsa with Beatrice there.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2008, 04:47:27 AM
Look at the face of the girl close to Grand Duchess Alexandra Josefina and compared that to the photo of Baby Bee's female companion alongside young Affie. You should see the resemblance  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 15, 2008, 04:53:27 AM
No you are right...I just compared the photos again...The one in question was a blonde...my mistake.  :o
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on January 15, 2008, 08:13:59 AM
No you are right...I just compared the photos again...The one in question was a blonde...my mistake.  :o

Probably you looked only at the faces, I compared the picture in whole  - faces and time period of the dresses and hair-styles.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Valmont on January 24, 2008, 11:13:01 AM



In 1897-1898 as here's

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/_-2.jpg)

In 1897-1898 both Elsa and Olga married, they looked like young women but not like the teenagers - Beatrice and her friend.

So I don't believe that's Elsa with Beatrice there.


They are GD Alexandra Iosifovna,  GD Olga Konstanovna, GD Vera Konstantinovna... and who are the other two?

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: LenelorMiksi on January 24, 2008, 07:26:18 PM
No, Olga Konstaninovna is not in that picture. The two younger women are Vera K's twin daughters Elsa & Olga, and Elsa's husband Prince Albrecht of Schaumburg-Lippe.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on February 08, 2010, 09:20:09 AM
(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/52369.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 08, 2010, 12:26:49 PM
amazing picture Grandduchessella! Those pictures of Missy, Ducky, and Sandra are new to me!

It's a shame there arent more pictures of baby bee around at that age.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 08, 2010, 01:32:15 PM
I don't think she was born at that time.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on February 08, 2010, 03:15:00 PM
amazing picture Grandduchessella! Those pictures of Missy, Ducky, and Sandra are new to me!

It's a shame there arent more pictures of baby bee around at that age.

You're welcome. I confess, I would love to see more from that sitting as it was new to me as well. But I'll take what I can get.  :)

Eric, I think XJaseyRaeX means she would like to see photos of Beatrice from that age (ie young child) rather than from that period.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 08, 2010, 03:28:30 PM
Well. There are some at the marriages of Missy & Ducky in the ILN special editions.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 10, 2010, 02:29:39 AM
Yeah, i meant that i have seen many pictures of Marie and Ducky when they were kids (like around 3-7 years of age) as well as quite a few of Sandra as well...i have only seen a couple of baby bee though as a kid. I always like seeing the childhood pictures the most. Im always fascinated by the adorable little outfits!  ;D
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2010, 09:40:14 AM
A lot in books on Missy and family of QV. The books by Charlotte Zeepvat are wonderfully illustrated by childhood photos. Check them up.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 10, 2010, 11:55:03 AM
I have. i own most of them, but like i said baby bee's pictures are usually a wonderful find for me.
I guess it's kind of like how parents are, you know when a couple have their first child, they take tons of pictures of them throughout their development, and the second child...the third not to so much and by the last there arent many at all.  maybe thats the case..who knows.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 10, 2010, 01:56:51 PM
That itself is an accomplishment if you own everything Charlotte Zeepvat had in her books. It is a big collection. I guess you will have to try for the Royal Archievs in Windor.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on February 10, 2010, 05:02:26 PM
I don't think that's what she said. She seemed to indicate she owned most of the photos of Beatrice in the books. I own postcards/photos/magazines illustrations of a good half or so of what was in Queen Victoria's Family, obviously the more familiar ones and not the wonderful private ones she published. Aren't you are in a similar way since you publish photo books and Robert Golden indicates that his books contain photos consisting mostly of his own collection. I don't think that it's impossible for her to have done so as well. Her books haven't had that many childhood photos of Beatrice, nor her sisters for that matter, as she was covering so much ground.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 11, 2010, 06:28:54 PM
I think Charlotte has quite a few photos on the Edinbrugh girls. There is not a lot of them available other than those from books on Missy.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 14, 2010, 01:07:47 AM
No, what you asked me Eric was that i should look at Charlotte Zeepvat's books, and i said that i owned most of them as in her published books.
You misunderstood what i had said.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 14, 2010, 02:36:32 PM
No problem. I know Charlotte still has some stunners she had not used in her books. Some can be found in the new RD Quarterly that she is an editor. :-)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on February 14, 2010, 07:28:20 PM
You can also buy issues from www.hoogstraten.nl. CZ is a very nice lady and she actually once bought a copy of a photo of Prince 'Frittie' of Hesse from me on ebay years ago. Of course, I had to gush over her like a fan girl when I discovered who the buyer was. : )
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: XJaseyRaeX on February 14, 2010, 08:40:41 PM
haha! i think i'd be the same way! no need to feel embaressed by it!  :D
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on February 15, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
Charlotte is a very nice lady and very supportive of other writers and researchers.  ;-)

Of all the Edinburgh children, Baby Bee spent the least time in England (even though she was born in Eastwell Park). However it was she that lived in England with her family during the family's exile. Queen Marie of Romania (Missy her eldest sister) was impressed by her house in the country.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 20, 2010, 10:49:15 AM
Alfred

(http://i41.tinypic.com/25ujyg3.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 20, 2010, 11:11:19 AM
He looked a bit pensive. I think it must be the time when he was staying in Malta ?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on April 26, 2010, 04:20:03 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/HesseandEdinburghfamily.jpg)
A 'family gathering' of the Hesse and Edinburgh relations.

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on April 26, 2010, 04:24:12 PM
From Sotheby's these marvelous letters from the possesion of Marie the Duchess of Edinburgh/Saxe-Coburg and Gotha nee Grand duchess Marie Alexandrovna.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/LettersofMariedeDuchessofEdinburghn.jpg)

A remarkable correspondence of the Grand Duchess to a close friend who had known her since her childhood, covering a period of over thirty years during which she married, moved to England, brought up her family and became a grandmother.

Initially Marie is struck by the contrast between the "coldness" of England and the warmth of Russia (not the climate, but the people and the atmosphere), and she finds relations with her mother-in-law Queen Victoria difficult and unpredictable, a state of affairs which hardly altered over the years. She is however amazed by her visit to the Derby, and loves the Italian paintings in the National Gallery, which recall her tour of Italy before her marriage. While awaiting the birth of her first child, she finds her "villégiature" at Eastwell in Kent rather dull – at 20, she remarks wistfully, surely one has the right to some amusement – and misses her Italian and music lessons.

From Malta where Alfred is stationed with his ship she notes that "nous avons commencé à travailler pour les blessés" (a course of action which the Tsar had hoped would not offend Queen Victoria, the wounded in question being Russian officers) but it pains her to be away from Russia at such a time, but she admits guiltily that she gets bored with Alfred away at sea, and regrets that she cannot accompany him when he is posted to the Crimea ("vous pouvez bien vous imaginer combien j’avais envie de voler en Crimée, mais le Duc me supplie d’y renoncer pour ne pas exaspérer la Queen, qui déjà est si mal disposée pour lui").

On hearing of the assassination attempt on her father in 1879 she is overwhelmed with anxiety and desperate for more news

…j’en suis encore profondément émue et n’oublierais jamais ce jour affreux. J’attends des détails avec une patience terrible et les premières lettres ne sont pas encore parvenues. C‘est tellement abominable, indigne, que cela n’a pas de nom! Le seul sentiment consolant, si on peut l’appeler ainsi, que je ressens dans ce moment, est celui que cette catastrophe devait avoir lieu un de ces jours. Il me semblait impossible qu’après tous ces attentats les malfaiteurs ne s’en prennent à la personne de l’Empereur lui-même. Tout cet hiver ce pressentiment me poursuivit et je respirais presque librement quand j’appris que mon pressentiment s’était vraiment accomplie…

She goes to Ingenheim to see her mother, whose health is poor, and tries to prepare herself for the worst, knowing that she is mortally ill.

After the death of father she feels that Russia no longer exists for her, and has a profound sense of exile from her homeland ("…Cet écroulement de tout mon passé me brise le coeur… il faut presque dire que la Russia n’existe plus pour moi…").

A year later the sadness of the anniversary is acute; she states that she is living on her memories, and has harsh words for the new Empereur and his repressive policies

… il me semble à présent que j’ai brisé tout lien qui m’unissait à la Russie, et que je n’ai aucune envie d’y revenir. Le nouveau régime, les nouvelles idées, tout me sera pénible. Pas un mot par écrit de ma famille… Le parti archi-russe… sauveront-ils la Russie par leur patriotisme si ardent… et en politique intérieure, après avoir respiré plus librement, va-t-on de nouveau étouffer la pauvre Russie. Notre patrie est-elle un autre empire chinois, qui craint d’avancer d’un pas dans la civilisation européenne, de crainte de voir crouler tout le vieil édifice?

She finds that in her sadness the Queen has been kind to her, and they have gone for long walks together and talked a lot.

She is irritated at finding herself pregnant again, but is delighted when another daughter (Alexandra, named after the Countess, but known as Sandra) is born on Easter Day, which she feels is a good omen. She reports on the Queen’s Golden Jubilee, which went well, to the Queen’s satisfaction, and on her travels in Europe, with amusing accounts of a visit to the Queen of Spain, to Romania for the birth of her daughter Missy (Marie)’s first child, and to the Empress Frederick in Berlin, who hasn’t a good word to say for her son (Kaiser Wilhelm), though Marie finds him "honnête et ouvert". She complains of having to go to Windsor to inaugurate yet another statue of the Prince Consort ("comme s’il n’y en avait pas assez dans toute l’Angleterre"), and contrasts the elaborate reception of Wilhelm II at Osborne with his previous visit when he was all but ignored.

She has little time for the Prince of Wales, whom she describes as "l’homme le plus indiscrète et le plus dénué de principes de toute l’Europe". Her attitude to England remains ambivalent, particularly London, which she describes as "un carême perpetuel", but as she notes, they are obliged to spend two months a year there otherwise the government will strip them of their possessions. However, as she comments wryly, since Alfred has become Duke of Coburg they are in better odour in England; "nous sommes bien plus appréciés depuis que nous avons grimpé sur le trône de nos ancêtres cobourgeois".

She describes the wedding of second daughter Ducky (Victoria Melita) to Ernest of Hesse, which was attended by Queen Victoria, since both bride and groom were her grandchildren, this being a mixed blessing for all present

…La présence de la Queen pendant toute la semaine sainte était particulièrement dure à supporter. Toute son existence, toutes ses heures, toutes ses habitudes, étant si différentes du reste de l’humanité, compliquait le cours de nos journées d’une manière tout à fait fatigante…

Fortunately Queen Victoria would not live to see this marriage end in divorce. The only child of the marriage died in 1903. Marie tries to counter Countess Tolstoy’s disapproval, and informs her that Ducky wants to remarry one of her Russian cousins. The final letter refers to the "horrible Japanese war".

The lot also includes two letters by Marie to her close friend Ina ("Inushka") and other related items.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on April 26, 2010, 04:30:27 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/RUSSIANIMPERIALFAMILY.jpg)

Description

Alexander II, Tsar. Ten autograph letters signed and twenty-six scribal telegrams to his daughter Grand Duchess Marie, in Russian and French, some 70 pages, folio and 8vo, Riga, Tsarskoe Selo, St Petersburg, Ems, 11 July 1862 to 8 March 1881 (less than a week before his assassination)


Condition Note:

Marie Alexandrovna, Tsarina. Twenty-nine autograph letters signed and twenty-five scribal telegrams to her daughter Grand Duchess Marie, in French, some 200 pages, folio and 8vo, Livadia (Crimea), St Petersburg, Tsarskoe Selo, 13 January 1874 to 29 May/10 June 1879

Marie, Grand Duchess of Russia and Duchess of Edinburgh. Twelve autograph letters signed to her father, in Russian, some 60 pages, 8vo, Buckingham Palace, Balmoral, Osborne, Eastwell Park, Ashford, Malta, 15 March 1873 to 4/18 February 1878

Alexander III, Tsar. Telegram to Grand Duchess Marie, 1 page, folio, in French, St Petersburg, 13 March 1881, 3.10 p.m., Announcing the (fatal) attempt on Alexander II’s life: ‘’Nouvel attentat Papa très gravement blessé conseille arriver au plus vite’’

 
 

CATALOGUE NOTE


a remarkable romanov family correspondence. Marie (1853-1920) was the Tsar’s only surviving daughter and considered to be the most eligible royal bride in Europe. She and her father were close and his concern and affection for her are evident in this correspondence. Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, Queen Victoria’s second son, had set his heart upon Marie as early as 1869, but such an alliance did not initially find favour at either the English or the Russian court and it was not until 1873 that the couple were able to announce their formal engagement. They were married in St Petersburg in January 1874. Queen Victoria’s antipathy to a Russian bride for her son was largely dispelled once Marie arrived in England and she was won over by the girl’s warmth and charm. The correspondence however gives a vivid picture of the ambivalence and suspicion which attended the relationship between Britain and Russia in the 1870s, which easily degenerated into outright hostility and which made the position of a Romanov married to a Windsor acutely difficult. Marie would need all her charm and tact to deal with her formidable mother-in-law; her own mother was less guarded in her opinions.

Alexander’s correspondence with his daughter ranges over a wide variety of subjects. The telegrams are generally more personal in nature, with family news and hopes for her happiness and welfare, while the letters are concerned with politics and foreign affairs. One telegram however was written shortly after an unsuccessful attempt on his life in April 1879: he reassures Marie that he is safe and remarks that this is the third time God has preserved him from death (‘’ce matin [pendant] ma promenade ordinaire un individu bien habille a tiré sur moi plusieurs coups de revolver sans m’atteindre on l’a arreté sur place…’’).

Inevitably there is much discussion of the Eastern question, which was a source of contention between Britain and Russia. The uprising in Kabul prompts a reflexion that England might not find it easy to deal with either. Alexander sees help only from Germany and is awaiting the results of a meeting with Bismarck. He plans to replace Shuvalov as minister in London. At one point Alexander expresses the hope that the Queen is not angry at Alfred’s helping wounded Russian officers. The problem of the Nihilists requires a firm hand, and he cannot relax any security measures as he needs to get to the leaders. On mourning paper for his wife, he tries to convince Marie of the rightness of his morganatic marriage to Catherine Dolgoruka and objects to Queen Victoria’s trying to influence her opinion, contrasting her disapproval with the reaction of Sacha (his son and heir Alexander).

Marie enquires of her father what the Russians are going to do once the English fleet is in the Dardanelles. She expresses her pleasure at the victory at Plevna, but is afraid that England will interfere when Russia comes to sign peace with Turkey, since Disraeli is constantly in discussions with the Queen at Windsor. Victoria is claiming that Alexander is pursuing the same policies as Catherine the Great. Marie makes plans for a visit to Russia while Alfred is at sea in the Mediterranean, and is touched by his desire to celebrate Easter in the Russian style.

Tsarina Marie’s letters to her daughter are more outspokenly anti-English in their views, and she feels for Marie and Alfred (his position, as a naval officer, being especially delicate) being caught in the crossfire of a war in which Russia and England are on opposing sides. She criticises the Prince of Wales for his support of Disraeli’s policies and approves of Alfred who is prepared to criticise Disraeli. She urges Marie to translate for Alfred’s benefit the political passages of her father’s letter so that he will know of Russia’s Eastern policy at first hand.

..la flotte anglaise est devant Const;[antinople] et nous sur le point d’y entrer. La rupture s’ensuivra’t elle, Dieu veuille que non, mais mon cœur est angoissé… en cas d’hostilites tu iras des que tu pourras quitter Malte a Cobourg… l’Anglet:[erre] impossible…
 
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on April 26, 2010, 04:30:57 PM
She describes her work for the Red Cross during the war and the "trains sanitaires" that she is organising, and in an extraordinarily vitriolic outburst against Queen Victoria expresses her relief that Marie is leaving England for a while

…comme tu respireras librement en quittant cette odieuse Angleterre et la présence de cette fausse vieille, qui si elle n’est pas un peu folle, est la plus méchante créature qu’il soit possible d’imaginer… (7/19 May 1877)

By 1878 the position has become even more difficult following the replacement of Derby by Salisbury; she finds this ominous, as it suggests hostility towards Russia and makes the Tsar’s position very awkward

…ce qu’ils veulent c’est nous humilier, amoindrir notre prestige, sous quel prétexte nous faire la guerre est difficile à comprendre, aucun de ces éternels british interests n’est en jeu, ils ont été tous ménagés… car nous pouvions occuper Gallipoli et les enfermer dans la mer de Marmara, nous ne l’avons pas voulu dans l’espoir d’éviter la guerre et nous ne l’éviterons pas hélas…

English reservists are being called up, the Russian ambassador Shuvalov is being ostracised at court, and she suggests that Marie and Alfred should settle in Coburg. Following Alfred’s posting to Malta she is not surprised that the queen is unhappy about their return to England "…j’avais bien pensé que la queen elle-meme ne voudrait pas ton retour en Angleterre…"

She promises to try and get Marie some clothes from Paris, but complains that everything is very expensive and states that she has been wearing the same things for a year.

On the subject of her health, she admits that she has got very thin and Dr Botkin wants her to have fresh milk to build her up. She lists the books she is reading, comments on her grandchildren, and notes that having lots of daughters is an English trait, not one inherited from their family.

Following the assassination attempt of 1879, she describes how "Papa" (Alexander II) is annoyed at having to have Cossacks with him all the time when he goes out, and finds it shameful for the people to see their Tsar thus in need of protection

…Quelle douloureuse humiliation pour les honnêtes gens, de voir leur souverain forcé à des mesures de précaution pareilles. Il faut leur redonner du courage en faisant cesser le terrorisme qui paralyse la majorité. Espérons que les mesures prises améneront ce résultat…

Her hopes for Marie to being able to go to Berlin to see her father were dashed when Alexander has to call off the trip for security reasons.

The Tsarina died on 22 May/3 June 1880 in St Petersburg, just under a year before the assassination of her husband.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on April 26, 2010, 04:58:27 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/rarephotographofMarieDuchessofEdinb.jpg)

From Sotheby's: an interesting and rare photograph of Marie Duchess of Edinburgh, Grand Duchess of Russia (1853-1920) driving a carriage, the photo taken in Malta, circa 1876, where her husband Alfred Duke of Edinburgh was stationed, later made Admiral of the Fleet
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 27, 2010, 08:00:51 AM
Maria Alexandrovna

(http://i42.tinypic.com/2r20rb9.jpg)

Alfred

(http://i40.tinypic.com/20rjpc4.jpg)

He looks rather handsome in this one. Love it!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 27, 2010, 05:57:17 PM
Alfred was rather dashing as a young man. He seemed to be in love with his sister-in-law Alix, and even QV noticed when the trio (Bertie, Alix & Alfie) became too close...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Margot on May 13, 2010, 04:47:26 PM
Yes! I weighed in the Royal Forums and alerted Marlene again! It was absurd! In the end, the Mod at the Royal Forums quashed the debate as it was going nowhere! The story makes no sense whatsoever! All that rubbish about the Fitzgeralds being involved! It is utterly baseless and the whole thing about Lady Irene being secretly given precedence etc was  utterly nonsensical! There was no Lady Mabel Fitzgerald of marriageable age in 1898/98 except a spinster Lady Mabel Fitzgerald (1855 - 1939) that was debunked immediately! Then all that twaddle about secret creations being performed in 1905 and 1917 and not appearing in the London Gazette were the last straw as far as I was concerned!

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums/f165/prince-alfred-duke-of-edinburgh-1844-1900-and-grand-duchess-marie-1853-1920-a-10717-2.html#post1025426

I am Connie Cutmantle at the Royal Forums!

Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Lindelle on May 13, 2010, 07:53:12 PM
Well Connie Cutmantle, I am a member of that forum as well.
What a fascinating read!
Margot just for the record 'encylopaedic' is acceptable as I am a tutor and it may be spelt both ways. :)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on May 13, 2010, 08:42:10 PM
Margot, you are a devil! LOL I never would have guessed that was you.  :)  It was an interesting discussion, too bad it got shut down. For someone with all his 'connections', etc and the supposed education that went along with it...Mr Bush had very bad grammar, I must say!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Margot on May 14, 2010, 12:04:36 AM
It would have been quite fun to have drawn out more from tyler123 on the 'other' forum! Here are Marlene's musings about Mr Frank FitzGerald Bush and his mother 'Lady' Irene from another thread here at AP!


Thanks.   Some years ago, I got a phone call from a man in North Carolina, who demanded to know why he and his family were not in my book - he claimed that his great great or whatever grandmother was fathered by Bertie when he was in Ireland as a teenager (where he met Nelly Clifden), and claimed the mother was the daughter of the earl of something (who lived in Ireland).    He gave me the daughter's date of birth and I thanked him ... wewll, as it turned out ... the aforementioned earl (whose title I have since forgotten) did not have any daughters, just sisters (all past menopause), and nine months before the "birth", the Prince of Wales was on a ship en route to North America.

I also get emails from people saying that their grandmother (it is always the grandmother) who was the daughter of royalty but had to come to the US, etc., etc.,and how can I find out the whole story .. well, I respond back. granny appears to be rather creative and the story is probably hogwash,

And then there is the fiction created by Frank Fitzgerald Bush who claimed that his mother was the daughter of Young Affie of Edinburgh and a Mabel Firtzgerald .. he claimed that Uncle Bertie created Irene (the daughter) as HH Princess Irene -- the date of the creation was date he created the Duff girls as princesses) ... and gave a date of birth for Mabel, which would have made her 15 or so ... but in fact, she was only 12 and nowhere near Coburg  at the time of the allleged marriage and birth - and her birth was in The Times ....  Frank never backed down - even put the "parents"on Irene's death certificate.
 



All very intriguing and entertaining!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 14, 2010, 07:21:58 AM
Thank you so much!!

Well..people doesnt know how to invent to get some attention. I think i will fabricate myself an story about being a great granddaughter of Mata hari since i look a bit like her....tee hee!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 14, 2010, 10:58:24 AM
I see... ;)

I did remember reading somewhere that young affie was involved with a girl. It was not terribliy unthinkable as the society expects young men to sow thaeir wild oats. Georgie and Nicky  (and Eddy too) all had mistresses some time in their lives before thinking of settling down.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Grace on May 14, 2010, 03:12:17 PM
The difference here is that it's claimed there was a marriage and child from the liaison.  That is a bit different to just 'sowing wild oats'.  It's already been discredited anyway....
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on July 11, 2010, 05:59:25 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Coburgsisters.jpg)

Three of the Edinburgh girls: Princess Maria of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Princess Victoria Melita of Hessen-Darmstadt and Princess Alexandra of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on July 12, 2010, 09:51:46 AM
Nice photo ! Except Baby Bee was not in it. I think she was still in the school room.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on July 12, 2010, 02:13:49 PM
She was. The photo was originally in the Graphic at the time of VM's marriage so it was taken prior to April 1894. Since this caption indicates her already being the Grand Duchess, it must have been republished again but before Alexandra married as it still notes her as a Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: royal_netherlands on July 12, 2010, 05:00:19 PM
This photograph of the Coborg sisters came from The Illustrated London News from April 28, 1894.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on July 22, 2010, 07:37:34 PM
Two photos I just got (still stuck using my iphone to capture image)

Beatrice, Missy, Ferdinand and Alexandra

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/coburg/efa6f1ff-1.jpg)

the entire family (parents, children and spouses) this is one of the only photos I've seen of the whole clan together, especially as there was only about a 3 yr window between when Alexandra married and Alfred Jr died

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/coburg/b8e96177-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 09, 2010, 09:37:29 AM
"The duke of Edimburgh`s visit to the Crimea seat of the hereditary Grand duke at Livadia" (Click on the image to see it bigger)

(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/7817/m1081873497.jpg) (http://img641.imageshack.us/i/m1081873497.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 09, 2010, 09:44:58 AM
I think where Alexander III died ?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: violetta on December 12, 2010, 04:58:32 AM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/420px-AlfredEdimbourg.jpg)


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/alfredcoburg.jpg)



(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/P_Alfred_1865.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 12, 2010, 12:21:57 PM
The last miniture explained why Marie fell in love with the handsome Alfie !  ;D I read he was in love for awhile with his sister-in-law Alix of Denmark.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: THERRY on December 20, 2010, 02:34:49 AM
From "Victoria and Albert  Life at Osborne house" by HRH the Duchess of York
Arthur's children with cousins Connaught
(http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/4764/scansione0004b.jpg) (http://img255.imageshack.us/i/scansione0004b.jpg/)
(click on to see it bigger)
From left to right : Prince Alfred of Edinburgh, Prince Arthur and Princess Margareth of Connaught, Princess Marie, Princess Alexandra and Princess Victoria Melita of Edinburgh in 1884
Photograph by Jabez Hughes
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eddie_uk on December 23, 2010, 11:08:54 AM
I love this one!!

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8171/royal7.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: violetta on January 24, 2011, 06:10:12 AM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/vmandmaria.jpg)

victoria melita and marie


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/victoriamelita99ut.jpg)


victoria melita
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: violetta on January 26, 2011, 05:08:41 PM
(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/beemissyducky5wx_preview.jpg)

beatrice, maria and victoria melita
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: violetta on January 28, 2011, 05:08:13 PM
missy & ducky


(http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/vitavioletta/missyducky9tm.jpg)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on April 25, 2011, 05:00:24 AM
Victoria Melita in 1893

(http://i56.tinypic.com/eqxmjq.jpg)


Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Clemence on May 08, 2011, 01:20:19 PM
maybe someone could tell me if the grand duchess and Dagmar lived close for sometime in russia (I believe they both lived in the country for some years, before the GD marriage) and how their relationship was? sorry if there is something somewhere, I couldn't find it ...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on May 09, 2011, 03:26:42 AM
maybe someone could tell me if the grand duchess and Dagmar lived close for sometime in russia (I believe they both lived in the country for some years, before the GD marriage) and how their relationship was? sorry if there is something somewhere, I couldn't find it ...

If you mean GDss Maria A. then her relationship with Empress Maria  was quite good, though it cannot be said they were best friends or chums.Polite and pleasant sisters-in-law.

I hope the coming publication of correspondence of Maria A. and her daughter Marie of Romania will unfold some new facts of Maria A.'s relationship with her numeruos relatives. In the Russian publication of that correspondence (only extracts actually of 1884-1920 eyars) I didn't find anything really interesting except some lines about GD Sergei and his wife.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on June 09, 2011, 05:41:51 PM
Just came across an interesting image from a newspaper--apparently the Duke or Duchess had commissioned a deathbed sketch/portrait of Alfred Jr. The painting was reproduced in the newspaper soon after his passing. It was a grainy image but even still you could tell her looked very drawn and thin.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 14, 2011, 01:46:53 PM
Can you share that image with us ?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on June 14, 2011, 05:28:16 PM
If I can--I have to copy the newspaper and then scan and crop the image, then post.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marc on April 29, 2013, 02:23:52 AM
Marie and Alexandra:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/Alexmar_zpsa2a80472.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/Album%201/Alexmar_zpsa2a80472.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on April 29, 2013, 05:31:57 AM
Alexandra is wearing a very tight corset.

Ann
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 29, 2013, 12:06:20 PM
I believe so. Don't think she was fat though. She was known as "the plain" or "jealous" one in the family.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on April 30, 2013, 02:03:59 AM
Not suggesting that she was fat, at this stage at any rate, just disproportionately narrow at the waist in this picture. Her sister's proportions are much less artificial.


Ann
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 30, 2013, 09:48:27 AM
Well...easily for her to get in and out of clothes...according to her racy reputation I guess.  ;)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marc on April 30, 2013, 10:02:05 AM
Marie and Alexandra:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/Alexmar_zpsa2a80472.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/Album%201/Alexmar_zpsa2a80472.jpg.html)

Could it be that she is wearing the same dress in this portrait?

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/alexHoh_zps7c17217e.jpg) (http://s87.photobucket.com/user/auersperg21/media/Album%201/alexHoh_zps7c17217e.jpg.html)

It has been painted in 1898 by von Angeli...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on April 30, 2013, 10:45:06 AM
Yes same dress ! That portrait is now in the Royal Collection in Britain. It was commissioned by Queen Victoria I think. Don't think he got to paint Baby Bee though...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on April 30, 2013, 11:51:36 AM
In the photo with Missy, they are at the wedding of 'odious Gunther', Empress Augusta Victoria's brother Ernest Gunther of Schleswig-Holstein with Princess Dorothea of Coburg (daughter of Philip and the scandalous Louise). This was in 1896.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 01, 2013, 02:56:40 AM
Yes. The most famous photo was the one with Marie Coburg in the carriage with 3 of her daughters (Missy, Ducky & Sandra) all in lovely gowns and jewels. But Baby Bee the youngest wasn't there.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marc on May 01, 2013, 08:15:25 AM
In the photo with Missy, they are at the wedding of 'odious Gunther', Empress Augusta Victoria's brother Ernest Gunther of Schleswig-Holstein with Princess Dorothea of Coburg (daughter of Philip and the scandalous Louise). This was in 1896.

Thank you.Didn't  know the occasion...it seems the dress was one of her favorite since she has been painted 2 years later...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on May 01, 2013, 10:25:41 AM
The painting may have been started around the time of the wedding and not finished until later as well. There are some of Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse, for instance, that were started a good while before her death (the sittings and photographs were finished) and not received by Queen Victoria until the following year.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: DNAgenie on May 01, 2013, 06:46:23 PM
I cannot get used to the title of this thread. I know it has been up there for years so must be hallowed by association, but I do not think it is correct. Alfred was Prince Alfred, Duke of Edinburgh, but he was not known as Duke Alfred of Edinburgh. He might have been known as Duke Alfred of Saxe-Coburg in later life, as that style is sometimes used for European titles in translation, but never for a British title.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 02, 2013, 08:31:17 AM
Yes. He was the Duke of Edinburgh but later became the Duke of Coburg. I do wonder what he talks about with his wife (apart from family issues), it will be interesting to see their letters.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Marc on May 14, 2013, 06:03:50 AM
A lot of photos of Princess Alexandra von Hohenlohe-Langenburg taken at Winter Palace in Russia:

http://il-ducess.livejournal.com/182024.html

take a look at the link-it's in Russian!
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 14, 2013, 08:07:52 AM
Those are from the Statearchives. Here you can browse the whole albumn

http://www.statearchive.ru/437?page=17
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 14, 2013, 04:11:05 PM
I winder if Marie Coburg or Baby Bee were photographed in the palace. In another photo stands Cyrill. Was Ducky in the photos too ?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: OctoberLily on May 25, 2013, 02:49:47 AM
Marie and Alexandra:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/Alexmar_zpsa2a80472.jpg (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k126/auersperg21/Album%201/Alexmar_zpsa2a80472.jpg)








What tiara is Marie wearing in this photograph?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on May 25, 2013, 01:17:04 PM
I think it's Marie's diamond loop tiara. If so, Marie had sent this tiara to Russia for safekeeping during WW1. It was confiscated by the Soviets and is now lost.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 26, 2013, 09:52:42 AM
Yes. The diamond loop tiara with pearls. It was confiscated by the Russians. 
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: OctoberLily on May 26, 2013, 07:41:59 PM
Thank you GDElla.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 27, 2013, 09:38:51 AM
But I think Missy have another diamond and pearl tiara. the one she wore with her big cross.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on May 27, 2013, 02:57:38 PM
She got one with a cross for her wedding.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on May 27, 2013, 06:53:20 PM
The cross is separate (big) with pearls hanging from it. The other pearl tiara has pearl spikes. It was the one Hannah Pakulah used for the cover of "the last romantic". I think she lost that one too together with the loop pearl tiara.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on September 23, 2013, 05:12:41 AM
The family of Duke Alfred in April 1896 (days of Alexandra's wedding).

(http://www.picatom.com/2a/1896april-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/2a/1896april-1.html)
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on September 23, 2013, 12:19:53 PM
It's one of those composite photos. You can see individual images from other photo sessions where they just melded them into this one photo.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 23, 2013, 12:45:57 PM
No...This photo was taken...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on September 24, 2013, 07:12:27 PM
Well, then the Ernst & Sandra, Marie, Alfred and Bee all replicated their _exact_ same poses from other photos in this one at the same time. :)

Composite photos weren't unusual at the time--they took actual photos and melded them together. Then those photographic images were put out in postcards, photos, etc...I've quite a few of them--Alexander II and family, QV and family, etc....
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on September 25, 2013, 07:19:23 AM
It's one of those composite photos. You can see individual images from other photo sessions where they just melded them into this one photo.

Yes, that's a composite by no doubts. Sandra's pose is a first hint on that !
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Kalafrana on September 25, 2013, 07:34:13 AM
They don't look as though they are in the same picture! They are looking in different directions, to start wih.

Ann
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 25, 2013, 09:37:53 AM
If so the "composite" was done at the time of the marriage of Sandra. The clothes are all from that time.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Svetabel on September 25, 2013, 11:27:05 AM
If so the "composite" was done at the time of the marriage of Sandra. The clothes are all from that time.

Great conclusion. Considering the fact that I already wrote down above that image: "April 1896, days of Alexandra's wedding"
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on September 25, 2013, 01:32:27 PM
Yes, the pose of Sandra & Ernst was taken from their engagement session.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 26, 2013, 10:55:34 AM
Did they had a photo session around the time of the wedding ?
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: grandduchessella on September 26, 2013, 01:49:14 PM
Yes. They had one during the leadup and also pictures taken in wedding attire.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on September 27, 2013, 12:53:44 AM
Not seen that one...Only the one with either the guest or the couple. not both...
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: mitia on October 03, 2013, 12:52:33 PM
Though a composite photo, it is rather nice indeed. And I cannot help noticing that Duchess Marie is holding a brindle French Bulldog by his collar and that the same lovely dog appears with Maria Coburg on others photos takne at the time of Sandra' engagement and wedding. One of these photos was published by Sophie Gordon in Noble Hounds and Dear Companions a few years ago and created a stir in the little world of French Bulldog people ! Composite or genuine, always pleasant to discover " a new version " of this photo !
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: matushka on October 03, 2013, 02:25:53 PM
I winder if Marie Coburg or Baby Bee were photographed in the palace. In another photo stands Cyrill. Was Ducky in the photos too ?

Answer to an old question: those pictures were taken in january/february 1900. Alexandra and Ernst came to St Petersbourg ans spent a month with their relatives. Neither Beatrice nor Victoria-Melita were there.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 03, 2013, 07:52:38 PM
Don't think Baby Bee ever go back to Russia after her failed romance with Misha.
Title: Re: Duke Alfred of Edinburgh (1844-1900) and his family, Part II
Post by: Joanna on September 21, 2016, 02:49:20 PM
Grand Duchess Marie’s Curiosity – Schloss Friedenstein, Gotha (1)

https://winterpalaceresearch.blogspot.ca/2016/09/grand-duchess-maries-curiosity-schloss.html

Joanna