Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about Russian History => Russian Noble Families => Topic started by: AkshayChavan on March 03, 2006, 04:37:31 PM

Title: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: AkshayChavan on March 03, 2006, 04:37:31 PM
I wanted to know how were the relations between the Romanovs and Countess Elena Stroganoff-Sheremetieff the daughter of Maria Nikolaivena. Did the Romanovs consider her as a cousin? Was she accepted by the imperial family?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 03, 2006, 06:18:57 PM
I would also like to know more about that...anyone?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: ukupeeter on March 04, 2006, 06:15:41 AM
Countess Elena Stroganoff-Sheremetieff was not a part of imperial family.
Nothing more.:)
Romanovs accepted enyone, include peasant.

Only who has a big part in court from such people was count Sumarokov- Elston, Prince Jussupov , because they were a illegitimate branch of Hohenzollern.

Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: AkshayChavan on March 04, 2006, 03:10:55 PM
This whole "equal marriage" thing of the Romanovs really makes me mad. Stroganovs were far more ancient and owned millions of sq miles of lands when Romanovs were simply "upstart boyars". They came to throne just by accident of history and not by any divine right.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: ukupeeter on March 04, 2006, 03:43:25 PM
 ;D
You think?

Romanovs were very close to czars.
Ivan IV wife was Romanov,
Feodor I mother was Romanov,
and
father of Michail Romanov was head of  Russian church.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 05, 2006, 09:17:31 AM
Quote
I wanted to know how were the relations between the Romanovs and Countess Elena Stroganoff-Sheremetieff the daughter of Maria Nikolaivena. Did the Romanovs consider her as a cousin? Was she accepted by the imperial family?


As I read Elena Stroganova was quite a quarrelsome lady, arrogant and always deep in debts. She was very proud of her Romanov's roots. But the Romanovs themselves did not accept her as a member of their clan.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: AkshayChavan on March 08, 2006, 12:59:29 PM
Her frustration was quiet understandable. She was a "somebody" yet a "nobody". She was born a Stroganov but not the "rich" Stroganovs only from well off branch . She was married to a Sheremetev but not from "rich" and "titled" Sheremetevs but their poor untitled cousins. She was granddaughter of a Tsar but nobody accepted this.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 12, 2006, 08:39:33 AM
As I've recently read in the journals of A.Polovtsov, Elena and her husband Sheremetev were spongers at the court of Princess Eugenie of Oldenbourg (nee Leuchtenberg), half-sister of Elena...
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Jay on April 26, 2006, 05:41:14 PM
Does anyone know of any good books? My knowledge of the Stoganoffs is limited and I'd love to learn more. Thankyou in advance to anyone who could help. It is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on April 29, 2006, 03:48:20 PM
Quote
Does anyone know of any good books? My knowledge of the Stoganoffs is limited and I'd love to learn more. Thankyou in advance to anyone who could help. It is greatly appreciated.

Jay - Start here: http://www.stroganoff.org/

There are ton's of things on the net on them and there a table top like book (but with a fair amount of explanatory text) that you can purchase from the web site, amazon or a dozen other places.

Good luck - I agree they are an interesting family.  I'm doing some work on their genealogy right now.

best,
dca
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Jay on April 29, 2006, 07:03:43 PM
 :) Thankyou so much!! I just checked out the site again. It's a great start. My town library also has a book or two on them as well. Thanks again for the help.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on October 21, 2006, 01:56:29 AM
Quote
I wanted to know how were the relations between the Romanovs and Countess Elena Stroganoff-Sheremetieff the daughter of Maria Nikolaivena. Did the Romanovs consider her as a cousin? Was she accepted by the imperial family?

As I read Elena Stroganova was quite a quarrelsome lady, arrogant and always deep in debts. She was very proud of her Romanov's roots. But the Romanovs themselves did not accept her as a member of their clan.


It has been several years since I read the memoirs of Prince Christopher of Greece, however, I'm certain he recalled meeting her on at least one occasion, I believe while at Pavlovsk with his mother, Queen Olga, and seemed to think Elena was very kind and attractive, and referred to her as "Cousin Helen." Perhaps, she was kind to him because he was a Romanov cousin (via his mother) and she needed their financial assistance?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on February 25, 2009, 02:37:46 AM
I wanted to know how were the relations between the Romanovs and Countess Elena Stroganoff-Sheremetieff the daughter of Maria Nikolaivena.

Actually Elena was not Countess by her husband as Vladimir Sheremetev had not a title of Count, he was from the poor branch of the Sheremetevs.


It has been several years since I read the memoirs of Prince Christopher of Greece, however, I'm certain he recalled meeting her on at least one occasion, I believe while at Pavlovsk with his mother, Queen Olga, and seemed to think Elena was very kind and attractive, and referred to her as "Cousin Helen." Perhaps, she was kind to him because he was a Romanov cousin (via his mother) and she needed their financial assistance?

I've came across some mentions of Elena in the Romanovs journals and I can't say they told about anything really harsh. She indeed was always in debts and lived on mercy of her half-sister Duchess Evgenia of Oldenbourg but anyway Elena was a cousin for the Romanovs.

By the way, Elena was a first platonic crush of famous GD Konstanin K. aka KR in the end of the 1870s !!...In the 1910s his eldest son Ioann even made visits to her tomb (she died in 1908) and called her "Aunt Elena Milashevitch" (she married secondly a Milashevitch in 1896).

I've been searching for her pictures for some time but still nothing. ((
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on February 25, 2009, 07:09:56 AM
It would be really interesting to see her...I wonder was she "grand" even in debt...something like Mary Adelaide von Teck?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 02, 2009, 01:15:08 AM
It would be really interesting to see her...I wonder was she "grand" even in debt...something like Mary Adelaide von Teck?

I don't imagine her in style like Mary Adelaide who liked to be in the centre of the attention. Seemed Elena just wanted to live properly as a Romanov relative, also  Elena was not so popular in society as Duchess of Teck. The courtiers considered Elena  a false ambitious batterfly as she was always maintaining her status between her Romanov relatives.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: ashdean on March 02, 2009, 05:59:12 AM
It would be really interesting to see her...I wonder was she "grand" even in debt...something like Mary Adelaide von Teck?

I don't imagine her in style like Mary Adelaide who liked to be in the centre of the attention. Seemed Elena just wanted to live properly as a Romanov relative, also  Elena was not so popular in society as Duchess of Teck. The courtiers considered Elena  a false ambitious batterfly as she was always maintaining her status between her Romanov relatives.
Mary A of Teck also was a proper royal with a generous civil list allowance which should have been adequate.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 02, 2009, 07:29:40 AM
It would be really interesting to see her...I wonder was she "grand" even in debt...something like Mary Adelaide von Teck?

I don't imagine her in style like Mary Adelaide who liked to be in the centre of the attention. Seemed Elena just wanted to live properly as a Romanov relative, also  Elena was not so popular in society as Duchess of Teck. The courtiers considered Elena  a false ambitious batterfly as she was always maintaining her status between her Romanov relatives.
Mary A of Teck also was a proper royal with a generous civil list allowance which should have been adequate.

Yes, I know. But Elena wasn't in a civil list.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 02, 2009, 08:17:36 AM
Elena's children from Vladimir Sheremetev:


(http://www.picatom.com/v/-7061-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/v/-7061.html)

Sergei (1880-1968) and Sophia (1883-1955).

Sergei Sheremetev was a dashing officer with a long military career who went through the Russian-Japanese war, and in 1916-1917 was the Governor of Lvov. He married firstly his distant cousin Countess Alexandra Sheremeteva (1886-1945), divorced her in 1920, then he married Stella Weber. His tomb is at Testaccio cemetery in Rome.

His sister was also buried at Testaccio, she had been married to Dmitriy Den (1874-1937) who was a marine officer.

Here's a photo of Dmitriy Vladimirovitch Den as a boy

(http://www.picatom.com/v/-7065-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/v/-7065.html)

Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 02, 2009, 07:04:12 PM
Thank you for your info and pictures Sveta...

Was thinking about something...she was a cousin of Romanovs...and a very close one,but just they didn't treat her as such...Am I wrong or not,but was she in similar situation like Countess Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Aldenburg who was,as I remember reading,greeted as a cousin by the Emperor...or I might be wrong?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 03, 2009, 01:06:53 AM

Was thinking about something...she was a cousin of Romanovs...and a very close one,but just they didn't treat her as such...Am I wrong or not,but was she in similar situation like Countess Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Aldenburg who was,as I remember reading,greeted as a cousin by the Emperor...or I might be wrong?

Do you speak about Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Krudener-ADLERBERG (1808-1888) ?? She was an illegetimate daughter of Count Maximilian-Emmanuel Lerchenfeld (1772-1809) and Princess Teresa Thurn und Taxis (1773-1839), born princess Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Right? Amalie was quite a notorious star in a European high society and a Grand Dame with a certain reputation. I think her life-story was more complicated than Elena's and she was not so close a relative of the Romanovs in fact, just a distant cousin I'd say.

But Elena was a granddaughter of famous Nicholas I, she certainly felt herself uncomfortable "being and exactly not being a Romanov" and all her life made others to remember about her ancestors..
There is an interesting source of the Russian court life of the 1880s-1890s - Journals of Alexander Polovtsov who was the State Secretary during almost all Alexander III's reign. This Polovtsov, a real snob and misantrope, who rarely said a kind word about anybody, often mentions the Sheremetevs (Elena and her husband) in acid tones -- seems he detested their tryings to be close to the Romanovs. For example Polovtsov acidly described an episode when Elena meet by chance her cousin GDss Anastasia Mikhailovna (married already the Herediraty Prince of Mecklenbourg),  talked to her, hold her arms and repeated that they resembled each other ("family resemblance")...The harsh comments of Polovtosv actually amuses me - did he really think that Elena should have went to a convent and forever shut up herself from the society becouse of her "unproper" birth? Or went to live at the end of nowhere ?  Her ambitions were quite understandable, as her parents was not able to help her yet.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: ashdean on March 03, 2009, 02:25:47 AM
It would be really interesting to see her...I wonder was she "grand" even in debt...something like Mary Adelaide von Teck?

I don't imagine her in style like Mary Adelaide who liked to be in the centre of the attention. Seemed Elena just wanted to live properly as a Romanov relative, also  Elena was not so popular in society as Duchess of Teck. The courtiers considered Elena  a false ambitious batterfly as she was always maintaining her status between her Romanov relatives.
Mary A of Teck also was a proper royal with a generous civil list allowance which should have been adequate.

Yes, I know. But Elena wasn't in a civil list.
I know Elena did not have a civil list..that was part of the point I was making.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 03, 2009, 04:33:59 AM

Was thinking about something...she was a cousin of Romanovs...and a very close one,but just they didn't treat her as such...Am I wrong or not,but was she in similar situation like Countess Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Aldenburg who was,as I remember reading,greeted as a cousin by the Emperor...or I might be wrong?

Do you speak about Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Krudener-ADLERBERG (1808-1888) ?? She was an illegetimate daughter of Count Maximilian-Emmanuel Lerchenfeld (1772-1809) and Princess Teresa Thurn und Taxis (1773-1839), born princess Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Right? Amalie was quite a notorious star in a European high society and a Grand Dame with a certain reputation. I think her life-story was more complicated than Elena's and she was not so close a relative of the Romanovs in fact, just a distant cousin I'd say.

But Elena was a granddaughter of famous Nicholas I, she certainly felt herself uncomfortable "being and exactly not being a Romanov" and all her life made others to remember about her ancestors..
There is an interesting source of the Russian court life of the 1880s-1890s - Journals of Alexander Polovtsov who was the State Secretary during almost all Alexander III's reign. This Polovtsov, a real snob and misantrope, who rarely said a kind word about anybody, often mentions the Sheremetevs (Elena and her husband) in acid tones -- seems he detested their tryings to be close to the Romanovs. For example Polovtsov acidly described an episode when Elena meet by chance her cousin GDss Anastasia Mikhailovna (married already the Herediraty Prince of Mecklenbourg),  talked to her, hold her arms and repeated that they resembled each other ("family resemblance")...The harsh comments of Polovtosv actually amuses me - did he really think that Elena should have went to a convent and forever shut up herself from the society becouse of her "unproper" birth? Or went to live at the end of nowhere ?  Her ambitions were quite understandable, as her parents was not able to help her yet.


Yes,I know that Amalie was a distant relative,that's why I said that it was strange that she was accepted in some way...presented a fur coat by the Emperor and treated as a "relative"...in some way Mathilde Demidov di San Donato was treated when in Russia,as a cousin...I tried to make some comparation with others whose marriages were not truly royal,but rather noble...Elena Stroganoff was a proper cousin,yet without a title by birth or by marriage so maybe that's why they treated her like that...she had so many cousins,just don't know why anyone didn't have any feelings for her except Princess Eugenia who was her half-sister...?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 03, 2009, 06:38:53 AM

Was thinking about something...she was a cousin of Romanovs...and a very close one,but just they didn't treat her as such...Am I wrong or not,but was she in similar situation like Countess Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Aldenburg who was,as I remember reading,greeted as a cousin by the Emperor...or I might be wrong?

Do you speak about Amalie von Lerchenfeld-Krudener-ADLERBERG (1808-1888) ?? She was an illegetimate daughter of Count Maximilian-Emmanuel Lerchenfeld (1772-1809) and Princess Teresa Thurn und Taxis (1773-1839), born princess Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Right? Amalie was quite a notorious star in a European high society and a Grand Dame with a certain reputation. I think her life-story was more complicated than Elena's and she was not so close a relative of the Romanovs in fact, just a distant cousin I'd say.

But Elena was a granddaughter of famous Nicholas I, she certainly felt herself uncomfortable "being and exactly not being a Romanov" and all her life made others to remember about her ancestors..
There is an interesting source of the Russian court life of the 1880s-1890s - Journals of Alexander Polovtsov who was the State Secretary during almost all Alexander III's reign. This Polovtsov, a real snob and misantrope, who rarely said a kind word about anybody, often mentions the Sheremetevs (Elena and her husband) in acid tones -- seems he detested their tryings to be close to the Romanovs. For example Polovtsov acidly described an episode when Elena meet by chance her cousin GDss Anastasia Mikhailovna (married already the Herediraty Prince of Mecklenbourg),  talked to her, hold her arms and repeated that they resembled each other ("family resemblance")...The harsh comments of Polovtosv actually amuses me - did he really think that Elena should have went to a convent and forever shut up herself from the society becouse of her "unproper" birth? Or went to live at the end of nowhere ?  Her ambitions were quite understandable, as her parents was not able to help her yet.


Yes,I know that Amalie was a distant relative,that's why I said that it was strange that she was accepted in some way...presented a fur coat by the Emperor and treated as a "relative"...in some way Mathilde Demidov di San Donato was treated when in Russia,as a cousin...I tried to make some comparation with others whose marriages were not truly royal,but rather noble...Elena Stroganoff was a proper cousin,yet without a title by birth or by marriage so maybe that's why they treated her like that...she had so many cousins,just don't know why anyone didn't have any feelings for her except Princess Eugenia who was her half-sister...?

Possibly Elena was somewhat a "shame" for the Romanovs due to the SECRET marriage of her parents...in comparison Mathilde di San Donato was married legally and to a very rich man - also the Emperor simply sympathyzed with her problem life. Amalie Adlerberg was an illegetimate offspring. led a fast life, but married properly and was a bright and unconventional woman...Elena was another sort of woman, also she definitely had a complex of her "unproper" birth and wasn't able to present herself in a such right way that others would have shut their mouths in spreading rumours about her existence. Moreover she married into the poor branch of the famous Sheremetev's clan - I don't know for sure  but seemed she married for love.

As for Duchess Evgenia of Oldenburg who gave money to Elena - My guess that she was the one who agree to help Elena probably after the request of her mother, GDss Maria Nikolayevna. Evgenia didn't marry abroad (as her sister Maria of Baden), had a good fortune and only one child, and  lived in Russia - so why not to help her half-sister? Evgenia was the most good-settled child of GDss Maria N. - her brothers led complicated lives if we can say so. The eldest - Nikolay - married morganatically and left Russia, Sergei was killed in 1877, Evgeniy (husband of famous Zenaida of Leuchtenberg, lover of GD Alexei Alexandrovicth) and Georgiy themselves were twisting around the Imperial throne to get the favor of the Emperor (btw, Georgiy all his life was trying to disperse the rumours that his was not a son of Duke Max).
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 03, 2009, 07:48:41 AM
Ok,so her out of favor was so and so because of her birth,but more because of her character...if she was not so eager in everything maybe they would respect her more...or not?Did her parents left her anything?Did she get a good dowry?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 04, 2009, 01:32:46 AM
Ok,so her out of favor was so and so because of her birth,but more because of her character...if she was not so eager in everything maybe they would respect her more...or not?Did her parents left her anything?Did she get a good dowry?

Her parents, esp. GDss Maria N. did leave a fortune for Elena, and she of course had a good dowry (can't say exactly the sum). But her husband Vladimir Sheremetev definitely wasn't able to save money and rapidly burnt a hole in their pockets. In 1885 the fortune of the Sheremetevs had been melt thanks to their way of life. They even had plans to left for Moscow for more cheap existence. Duchess Evgenia of Oldenburg gave them 2 thousands rubles monthly (it's hard to exchange the sum into our modern currencies) just to live more or less properly and bring up the children.
 
Actually if I got right the sources Vladimir Sheremetev played the main tune in Elena's relations to the Romanovs - he was proud of  "the connect" through his wife to the Imperial Family and maintained "the course" of Elena as a Romanov offspring. Sheremetev itslef, as the contemporaries said, was a vain and narrow-minded person so the result was that he and his wife were not in a high respect in the society and among the Romanovs.
Elena itself also wasn't a brilliant or sophisticated person to attract the attention or universal  love (GD KR had a platonic crush on her though). She in fact was at the Empress MF's side very often, and even went with the Imperial Family to their annual visits to Finland on board of "Tsarevna", but seemed Elena nonetheless was treated like a very noble lady-in-waiting. Probably if she was married to another- more noble and rich man without fool ambitions - she would have been respected more.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 04, 2009, 06:56:25 AM
So,that's true what I thought...I get a bit confused...in genealogy site she is listed as Countess Marie Helene Strogonoff and yet her husband was listed without the title which he of course didn't have,so was her father a count or not?

One more interesting thing is that her descendant Sergei Vladimirovitch married Countess Alexandra Alexandrovna Sheremeteva,so obviously a member of another rich and titled branch of the same family...did he gain some fortune with this marriage?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 05, 2009, 01:41:39 AM
So,that's true what I thought...I get a bit confused...in genealogy site she is listed as Countess Marie Helene Strogonoff and yet her husband was listed without the title which he of course didn't have,so was her father a count or not?

One more interesting thing is that her descendant Sergei Vladimirovitch married Countess Alexandra Alexandrovna Sheremeteva,so obviously a member of another rich and titled branch of the same family...did he gain some fortune with this marriage?

Elena was born Countess Elena Grigorievna Stroganova (no Marie Helene, she was an Orthodox, so only one first name) and married to an untitled Sheremetev (from the other, poor branch of the famous family). The Stroganovs were indeed rich, Elena's father owned a factory in the Ural region but seemed was only wealthy.

Sergei Sheremetev, Elena's son, married firstly his distant cousin Countess Alexandra Alexandrovna Sheremeteva, daughter of the famous mecenat Count Alexander Dmitrievitch Sheremetev. Probably Sergei wanted to play a more weighty part at the society and chose the daughter of such respected and rich (of course!) person as Count Sheremetev. Obviously the dowry of Alexandra was very attractive : )

Here's the Sheremetevs - the whole family of Count Alexander including his daughter Alexandra and her spouse Sergei Sheremetev:


(http://www.picatom.com/v/1copy-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/v/1copy-1.html)


Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 05, 2009, 07:24:54 AM
Thank you Svetabel...great picture of them...so,at her birth Elena was a countess and was rather well off...what happened later to this fabric and everything?Her husband or it is just her to blame...?

Countess Alexandra Alexandrovna Sheremeteva must have had a good dowry,but I wonder what did he have...I don't think her father would let her marrying Sergei Vladimirovitch even if he is from the same family(distant cousin) and Imperial family descendant if he didn't have any money...or he would?
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on March 06, 2009, 01:39:56 AM
Thank you Svetabel...great picture of them...so,at her birth Elena was a countess and was rather well off...what happened later to this fabric and everything?Her husband or it is just her to blame...?

Countess Alexandra Alexandrovna Sheremeteva must have had a good dowry,but I wonder what did he have...I don't think her father would let her marrying Sergei Vladimirovitch even if he is from the same family(distant cousin) and Imperial family descendant if he didn't have any money...or he would?

I didn't find out what exactly happened to the factory of her father, but her mother gave Elena Villa Quarto in Italy where they had been living almost all 1860-1870s years. Obviously  Elena sold this Villa...The other fortune Elena and her husband definitely let go down the wind.

I agree that Alexandra's father would not have been pleased with such a son-in-law, but who knows - possibly Alexandra fell in love with Sergei and wanted only him...If I find any extra info on the subject I post it ; )
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on March 06, 2009, 04:27:42 AM
Please do,I would like to know even more about this family...
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: kmerov on March 06, 2009, 05:48:35 PM
I thought Elena was close to the Romanovs. I remember reading that GD Konstantin Konstantinovich invited her to take part in a little soirée at the Marble Palace together with Maria Feodorovna, Evgenia of Oldenburg and Maria of Baden, but maybe she only got invited because he had a platonic crush on her. :-)
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on April 07, 2009, 05:33:08 AM
Some extra info on Sophia Vladimirovna, daughter of Elena Sheremeteva.  She was on friendly terms with Empress Maria Fedorovna and other Romanovs. Empress MF very often mentions “Sonya Dehn” or “the Dehns” and her visits to them  in her diaries of 1917-1918 years (the Crimea period of some exiled  Romanovs).

Also in her childhood Sophia and her brother Sergei played with  Empress MF’s children -  in 1884 year little GDss Xenia in her letters to a friend says that “children of Elena Sheremeteva come to us every day and little one [Sophia] even stays all day long with Baby [GDss Olga Alexandrovna]. She is so sweety”.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on April 09, 2009, 06:04:03 AM
Finally a photo of Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva -  in her teens of 1874-1875 years

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/1874helena.jpg)

Pretty girl.



Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on June 24, 2009, 03:13:49 AM
Interesting additional info on Sophia Dehn, daughter of Elena.

While reading the diaries of Empress Maria Fedorovna I came across the lines that "Sonya Dehn visited me with her little boy". In the  genealogical sources I've never seen any mention on Sophia's child or children and thought the Dehns were childless..This puzzled me but yesterday in a Russian genealogical almanach with obituaries I found Alexander Dehn (1908-1979) and the  intriguing info such as:

Alexander Dmitrievitch Dehn (1908, Switzerland - 1979, New York). Painter. Son of Countess Varvara Vorontsova-Dashkova (widow of Count Ivan) and Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovitch. After his birth a friend of his mother, Sophia Vladimirovna Dehn, adopted him. He spent his childhood in Italy where his adopted father Dmitriy Dehn was on naval service . Alexander was a well-known artist and often showed his water-clolours at American galleries.


So, here we have an illegetimate son of GD Sergei M. and the situation when a descendant of a morganatic marriage of a Romanov (Sophia Sheremeteva-Dehn) adopted another Romanov  : )
The brief info I've found on Countess Varvara, mother of Alexander Dehn:

Varvara Davidovna,nee Orlova (1870, Paris -1915, Petrograd), spouse of Count Ivan Illarionovitch Vorontzov-Dashkov (1866-1897), son of famous Count Illarion. Varvara abd Ivan had 3 children, and the last child Ivan was born in 1898,posthumously, when the Countess became a young widow.
She was quite pretty:

(http://www.picatom.com/10/1870-1-th.jpeg) (http://www.picatom.com/10/1870-1.html)

Here's she in 1903, famous ball at Winter Palace.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on June 25, 2009, 05:12:52 PM
She had very elegant face...
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Janet Ashton on June 25, 2009, 08:00:46 PM
yesterday in a Russian genealogical almanach with obituaries I found Alexander Dehn (1908-1979) and the  intriguing info such as:

Alexander Dmitrievitch Dehn (1908, Switzerland - 1979, New York). Painter. Son of Countess Varvara Vorontsova-Dashkova (widow of Count Ivan) and Grand Duke Sergei Mikhailovitch. After his birth a friend of his mother, Sophia Vladimirovna Dehn, adopted him. He spent his childhood in Italy where his adopted father Dmitriy Dehn was on naval service . Alexander was a well-known artist and often showed his water-clolours at American galleries.


So, here we have an illegetimate son of GD Sergei M. and the situation when a descendant of a morganatic marriage of a Romanov (Sophia Sheremeteva-Dehn) adopted another Romanov  : )
The brief info I've found on Countess Varvara, mother of Alexander Dehn:

Varvara Davidovna,nee Orlova (1870, Paris -1915, Petrograd), spouse of Count Ivan Illarionovitch Vorontzov-Dashkov (1866-1897), son of famous Count Illarion. Varvara abd Ivan had 3 children, and the last child Ivan was born in 1898,posthumously, when the Countess became a young widow.


Thanks for this - this is very interesting, as there was discussion about this on the Europeans Royals Message Board about a year ago, when a poster asked who were the real parents of Alexander. He felt that it was very unusual for someone to be allowed to adopt a child as heir, and that the rank of Dmitri Dehn was not high enough to merit such a privilege under ordinary circumstances. There was some discussion about whether Alexander's adopted mother might also have been his REAL mother by birth, hence her being allowed to adopt him.

Very interesting that Sergei Mikhailovich was the father - so there were actually at least four people in his menage a trois with Andrei and Kschessinka, and he paid her back in kind for giving him the runaround....
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on June 26, 2009, 12:16:12 AM

so there were actually at least four people in his menage a trois with Andrei and Kschessinka, and he paid her back in kind for giving him the runaround....

Exactly : ) . All this is really interesting, just yesterday I looked through a bio on Count Vorontosv-Dahskov and saw in it 3 group-hotos of his family in the 1890s - there is all his family including Varvara with husband and GD Sergei M. : ) So he had been close to their family for years.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Janet Ashton on June 26, 2009, 12:18:37 PM

so there were actually at least four people in his menage a trois with Andrei and Kschessinka, and he paid her back in kind for giving him the runaround....

Exactly : ) . All this is really interesting, just yesterday I looked through a bio on Count Vorontosv-Dahskov and saw in it 3 group-hotos of his family in the 1890s - there is all his family including Varvara with husband and GD Sergei M. : ) So he had been close to their family for years.

It is very ironic for Sergei that his biological son grew up another family under a different patronymic while Sergei raised Vova Kschessinsky, who had his patronymic at that point but was quite possibly not his son!
As Maria Pavlovna wrote scathingly of Andrei's affair: "It is complicated as there is a child, and he believes himself the father, as Sergei Mikhailovich also believes himself the father..."
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: ashdean on June 26, 2009, 12:28:24 PM

so there were actually at least four people in his menage a trois with Andrei and Kschessinka, and he paid her back in kind for giving him the runaround....

Exactly : ) . All this is really interesting, just yesterday I looked through a bio on Count Vorontosv-Dahskov and saw in it 3 group-hotos of his family in the 1890s - there is all his family including Varvara with husband and GD Sergei M. : ) So he had been close to their family for years.
Could you please furnish details of the Vorontsov Dashkov book.Is it in English? I have always been fascinated in the life of the Viceroy..his elegant wife who died in exile in 1924 and their 6 children.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on June 27, 2009, 11:07:35 AM

so there were actually at least four people in his menage a trois with Andrei and Kschessinka, and he paid her back in kind for giving him the runaround....

Exactly : ) . All this is really interesting, just yesterday I looked through a bio on Count Vorontosv-Dahskov and saw in it 3 group-hotos of his family in the 1890s - there is all his family including Varvara with husband and GD Sergei M. : ) So he had been close to their family for years.
Could you please furnish details of the Vorontsov Dashkov book.Is it in English? I have always been fascinated in the life of the Viceroy..his elegant wife who died in exile in 1924 and their 6 children.

The book is in Russian.
D.I.Ismail-Zade. I.I.Vorontsov-Dashkov. Governor of the Caucasus. published 2005. the ISBN   5-9524-1971-2

The edition is really wonderful, with interesting text and 3 inserts of family portraits and photos.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: ashdean on June 28, 2009, 03:43:33 PM
Thankyou
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on November 12, 2009, 07:04:49 AM
More info on Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva.

Even after her marriage to Grigoriy Milashvetich (the Romanovs were quite shocked with such allaince) Elena was often seen at the court and Emperor Nicholas II was deferring to her opinions on some political questions (!!! I think he was just very polite to his mother’s friend).
But in 1902, in the height of Monsieur Philippe’s influence on Empress Alexandra F., Elena was very near to disgrace as she sided with Philippe’s enemies and Alexandra tried to turn Nicholas against Elena.

There are some mentions on Elena’s appearance and character in the diary of GD Sergei and memoirs of Countess Vera Kleinmikhel. GD Sergei described her as “hippopotamus” due to Elena’s fatness and Vera Kleinmikhel said more kindly “very tall and very corpulent, the cleverest and kindest woman”. Countess Vera was a friend of Elena’s daughter Sophia Dehn, so she hardly intended to paint Mme Milashevitch in dark tones.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on December 02, 2009, 06:32:32 AM
Here is a photo I had posted a long ago at the topic about GDss Xenia.

The Imperial family and their suite in the 1887-1888 in Finland.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/MP/finl.jpg)

After some searching and comparing I think the lady in the striped dress is Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva. And that's why:

1. She was quite close to Empress MF and her inner circle.

2. She and her husband almost every year went on a vacation with the Imperial Family to Finland

3. She looks (even sitting) very tall and with inclination to stoutness - and such was Elena's appearance as her contemporaries described her.

4....and the most interesting - she has a strong resemblance to GDss Maria Nikolayevna and Emperor Nicholas I. Also she resembles her photo a s a girl (posted by me above).
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on September 20, 2010, 03:50:22 AM
As a reply to the poster who asked about Elena's grave.

She died in Tsarskoe Selo in 1908 and was buried in Troitze-Sergievna Pustin', in Strelna, near Saint-Petersbourg.

Here're some photos of the place.

http://encspb.ru/article.php?kod=2804009846 (http://encspb.ru/article.php?kod=2804009846)

Don't know if the tomb is on its place as in 1921 the cemetery was almost all destroyed by the Soviets.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Marc on May 13, 2016, 05:09:49 AM
Photo of Elena in court dress:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e1/a2/97/e1a297c96fbe7e46b2314a875c2414f4.jpg

Here is the close up:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/ff/9c/b3/ff9cb3d38d1b4dcb77671bf7b9da4bf5.jpg

She seems to be wearing some very heavy diamonds around her neck...
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 16, 2016, 02:07:35 PM
Those are riviere cut diamonds!! and those are probably emerald tears. WOW!
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: rgt9w on May 08, 2019, 09:49:50 AM
Does anyone know if Elena was onboard the imperial train when it derailed at Borki in 1888? Her husband, Vladimir as head of the Kovoi, was traveling on the train and injured.  Zichy references a Stats-Dama Sheremeteva that was on the train, but I do not think that is her, as I can find no reference to Elena holding that position.
Title: Re: Elena Stroganova-Sheremeteva, daughter of GDss Maria Nikolayevna
Post by: Svetabel on May 09, 2019, 07:08:21 AM
Does anyone know if Elena was onboard the imperial train when it derailed at Borki in 1888? Her husband, Vladimir as head of the Kovoi, was traveling on the train and injured.  Zichy references a Stats-Dama Sheremeteva that was on the train, but I do not think that is her, as I can find no reference to Elena holding that position.

No, she was not on board. She didn't have a position at the court either.