Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 03:17:51 AM

Title: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 03:17:51 AM
Olga Paley:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/16851acf.jpg)

The family in 1916:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/1916paley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 03:21:22 AM
Irina at her wedding in 1923 with Theodor Alexandrovich.
From l. to r.: Dmitri Pavlovich, Xenia, Theodor Alexandrovich, Irina Pavlovna, Alexander Mikhailovich, Olga Paley and Maria Pavlovna.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/1923a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 03:25:25 AM
Natalia:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/p29.jpg)

in 1952:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/1952.jpg)


With her husband Lucien Lelong:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/n084346.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/File0002a.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/a.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 03:33:03 AM
Vladimir: in 1916
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/1916bis.jpg)

With his nyanya in 1898:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/1898niania.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on August 23, 2004, 06:38:31 AM
Wonderful photos Lisa.  Natalie Paley was really beautiful.
Am I correct in thinking that her nickname was "Babe" and that she had a short career as an actress in Hollywood?
Does anyone have more information about her and her sister Irina?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 07:37:21 AM
Natalia was born in 1905, dead in 1981.
She was a model for Lucien Lelong and an actress. She play in Sylvia Scarlett by Cukor (1935)
           L'Epervier by Marcel L'Herbier (1933) with Charles Boyer
          Les hommes nouveaux by Marcel L'herbier
Married in 1927 with the fashion designer Lucien Lelong, divorce in 1937.In 1932, she had a loveaffair with Jean Cocteau.At New York in 1937 she became Mrs John WILSON (1899-1961)

Irina was born in 1903. She was dead in 1990. She divorce in 1936(she was maried since 1923 with Theodor Alexandrovich).In 1950 she became the wife of Comte Hubert de MONBRISON (1892-1981) She have 2 children with Theodor:

-Michel (b. 1924 in Paris)
-Irene (b.  1934 in Fontenay).
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: pushkina on August 23, 2004, 09:26:49 AM
"babe" paley was the famous and fashionable second wife of william paley, the founder of the american radio/Tv network, CBS.  william paley was not related to the romanov family in any way.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on August 23, 2004, 10:11:15 AM
Quote
Thanks for the information Lisa.  Is there anything in any depth about Princess Paley and GD Paul's second family?

Frederic Mitterrand has written a book called "Mémoires d'exil". It's about the royal families after the WW1. I found my informations here.

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2266104519/qid=1093274128/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/171-3726130-1171452

http://www.alapage.com/mx/?id=87491054807505&donnee_appel=KELKO&tp=F&type=1&l_isbn=2266104519&devise=&fulltext=&sv=X_L
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on August 23, 2004, 12:43:31 PM
Did the Paley Children got along with thier half-brother and sister?  [Dmitri and Maria?]

-MP
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on August 23, 2004, 12:46:42 PM
I heard from Natalia Paley's family, the Wilsons during the 1990's. They were delighted to have a Romanov princess as a relative by marriage. They took care of the costs of burying her and maintaining her grave. They sounded like lovely people - and Natalia did her best to make a new life for herself in the United States.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Teddy on September 04, 2004, 07:23:23 AM
How did the Paleys fled from Russia after the arrest of the Grand Duke Paul and Vladimir Paley.

And why was the rest of the family arrested as well?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on September 04, 2004, 07:38:28 AM
Olga (his wife) visited Paul until his death in jail in 1919.
The daughters went out Russia by Finland, without their mother and in very bad conditions. They certainly were sexually assaulted, indeed raped for Natalia. The mother and her daughters met again in Paris, when they understood  there was no hope for Vladimir (he was shot in 1918 in Alapaievsk)...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Teddy on September 04, 2004, 07:59:28 AM
Hi Lisa,

Where did you got all this kind of information about the Paleys?
Every book I have and on the Internet, there always been a bit of information about them, little by little I learn of this family.
:D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on September 04, 2004, 08:02:06 AM
In this book:

Quote
Frederic Mitterrand has written a book called "Mémoires d'exil". It's about the royal families after the WW1. I found my informations here.

http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2266104519/qid=1093274128/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/171-3726130-1171452

http://www.alapage.com/mx/?id=87491054807505&donnee_appel=KELKO&tp=F&type=1&l_isbn=2266104519&devise=&fulltext=&sv=X_L

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bookworm on September 04, 2004, 05:48:45 PM
Poor Vladimir would probably not have been considered a proper match for Grand Duchess Olga as he was the offpring of a morganatic marriage. I think there was considerable animositiy against the Paleys. His half-brother Dimitri apparently was considered a match for Olga, though I don't think she ever was in love with him. She was extremely fond of another Dimitri, her golden "Mitya."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 04, 2004, 06:20:22 PM
Natalia was raped?!?! oh my goddness she would had be 16! poor N.

My friends and i were think of that too
-Prince Paley with one of the tsar's daughters.[A story line]

but it wouldn't happened because Princess Paley was unliked in the family,for being a wife of a grand duke. Also the Paley children was illegamate [Vladimir exp].

-M

P.S I think Vladimir is a cutie too, [the handsome  Romanov look he has] he was much cutier the his half-brother Dmitri.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Gerjo on September 05, 2004, 01:11:55 AM
Illegamated or not illegamated they saw some of the Romanovs in private life. In some letters of Alexandra to Nicky she writhes that she saw princess Paley (and maybe her daughters) in church. And she was invited on a birthday party of the Dowager Empress. She haves also visits the family in captivity and writes letters to the family.

Are there also photographs of the Paleys with the IF?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on September 05, 2004, 04:30:49 AM
Quote
Natalia was raped?!?! oh my goddness she would had be 16! poor N.

.


We don't know exactly what happened... But later, Natalia was famous for her "love-affairs "with gay men! (Jean Cocteau, even her husband Lucien Lelong...). She was a very mysterious woman..
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Elija on September 05, 2004, 08:15:51 AM
Vladimir Paley A POET AMONG THE ROMANOVS
where can I find his poetry, is it possible??
information about him http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/library_en/royal_paley.html
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on September 06, 2004, 01:11:59 PM
I am pretty sure that I have read that Princess Paley went to considerable lengths to win the Alix's favour and friendship and that that was one of the reasons why GD Paul built a house at Tsarkoye Tselo.
Does anyone know what Alix's feelings about Pcss Paley were after they wrere allowed to return to Russia?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Gerjo on September 06, 2004, 02:27:17 PM
I think Alix and Princess Paley did get along with eachother. Alix describes many times the princess in her letters to Nicky.

The women had also a little correspondce with eachother. Even in captivity.

I noticed in many letters that there were also meetings between the 2 women. And also the Imperial children seems to get allong with the princess and her children.

But I think Alix have accepted the wife of GD Paul. But if they were true friends I don't know 4 sure. Maybe when the monarchy had survived they would be.

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on October 08, 2004, 10:01:23 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/grandduchessella/HIHthegranddukePavlAleksandrovitchofRussiatheprincessPaley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Namarolf on October 22, 2004, 11:00:06 AM
According to princess Paley memoirs, she sent Irina and Natalia abroad in 1918 and they reached Finland safely. Of course, it was very unlikely for a mother to tell about one of her daughters being raped, but she doesn't seem to be under the impression that the girls had been harassed sexually. Anyway she and the girls met again in Finland in 1919, not in Paris. I know there is a biography of Natalia, "Une princesse dechirée", but I haven't got it - does the information about her being raped in 1918-1919 comes from that book?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Teddy on December 16, 2004, 06:24:47 AM
Princess Paley corresponded to the Tsar en Tsarina. But were are her letters of her to N.A. and A.F. and vice versa?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Labuanbajo on January 05, 2005, 04:17:11 PM

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/Larantuka/Scan11.jpg)





From a collection of photographs by Jerome Zerbe:

    "The opening of a fashionable shop on Madison Avenue.
      It was called Karinska's, and in the window on opening
      day stand two friends of the proprietress-Niki de Gunzburg
      and Natasha Paley Wilson. Zerbe can be seen smiling up
      at them as he takes the picture from the curb".

There's no date given but it was probably shot in the late 30's.

Natasha was evidently married to a man named Wilson. Any relation, Penny?

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on January 05, 2005, 05:35:26 PM
What a great picture, is it from 'Beauty in Exile'?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on January 06, 2005, 12:04:06 AM
I don't know Penny's family tree, but Natasha's Wilson relatives remember her fondly and arranged her burial. They were thrilled to have a Russian princess in their family.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on January 31, 2005, 04:59:12 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/OlgaPcssPaley.jpg)

This is the picture that got me interested in the Romanovs, and in particular the Paleys.  In 1985, I bought a book about Cartier that featured this picture.  I thought that this was possibly the most glamorous photo that I had ever seen from that era and longed to know more of the stunning woman featured in the photo.
I was intrigued by the term 'morganatic', not knowing its significance and that the wife of Grand Duke Paul was known as Countess Hohenfelsen, Princees Paley - none of which made any sense.
She is dressed for a ball given by the Comtesse d'Yturbe; does anyone understand the signifiacnce of her costume, the fur hat and the velvet cloak....?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on January 31, 2005, 07:11:36 PM
That is a great photo, isn't it Martyn? Her necklace looks like one of those fringe tiaras that can be worn as a necklace as well. Do you know if it is?

sorry this isn't bigger
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/paley251.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/paley2.jpg)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on February 01, 2005, 07:29:03 AM
I'm not sure whether her necklace can be worn as a tiara but she is wearing her other jewels in a different way to the manner in which they were customarily worn.
You may notice that she is wearing her wonderful diamond tiara strung across the bosom of her dress as a stomacher and her pearl and diamond crescent shaped stomacher as a hat ornament.  Both jewels were made by Cartier.
I wondered whether her costume is an allusion to Austrian dress, as there is an image of Archduchess Isabella wearing a similar court toilette from around the same period........
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on February 01, 2005, 07:32:22 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/ArchduchessIsabellaofAustria.jpg)

Isabella wearing her amazing parure of huge peridots and diamonds and the enseble that I mentioned previously.....Sadly the image that I have is rather small - anyone have it larger?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on February 01, 2005, 07:35:10 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/Jewels/PcssPaleyCartiertiara.jpg)

Pcss Paley's diamond tiara (the second version) by Cartier.......Those pear shaped diamonds are enormous!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on February 01, 2005, 09:48:27 AM
Quote
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/ArchduchessIsabellaofAustria.jpg)

Isabella wearing her amazing parure of huge peridots and diamonds and the enseble that I mentioned previously.....Sadly the image that I have is rather small - anyone have it larger?


Is this the one? Sorry it's not full-length.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v282/ellahesse/Aartshertogin20Isabella2D01.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on February 01, 2005, 10:09:47 AM
Oh I agree entirely GDElla.  I love the Fife tiara as well.  It must be something about pear-shaped stones.  The Paley tiara has much bigger stones than the Fife one - this is a truly Romanov piece of jewellery.
I think that I am correct in saying that this is the second incarnation of Olga's tiara.  The first version was a wire frame that featured the pear-shaped stones inverted as spikes; she must have decided to have the tiara remodelled.  The second version with the pendant drops must have been a magnificent sight and is quite similar in style to Miechen's pearl and diamond circle tiara and Nancy Leeds' pearl and diamond tiara.  Apparently, whilst in Paris, GDss Vladimir left her tiara at Cartier to be cleaned at which time they took the opportunity to make copies of it; thus it may have been the inspiration for the designs of the Paley and the Leeds tiaras.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on February 01, 2005, 10:17:36 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/RUS20Grand20Duchess20Wladimir201905.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/Jewels/NancyLeedsCartiertiara.jpg)

Miechen wearing her pearl and diamond tiara and Nancy Leeds' Cartier pearl and daimond tiara below......
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on February 01, 2005, 10:31:40 PM
Quote
is quite similar in style to Miechen's pearl and diamond circle tiara and Nancy Leeds' pearl and diamond tiara.  Apparently, whilst in Paris, GDss Vladimir left her tiara at Cartier to be cleaned at which time they took the opportunity to make copies of it; thus it may have been the inspiration for the designs of the Paley and the Leeds tiaras.


Nancy Leeds in I believe the tiara Martyn is referring to:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v650/empressfrederick/gr20anastasia.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on February 10, 2005, 02:52:50 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/Jewels/OlgaPaleysstomacher.jpg)

I finally found it - Olga Paley's stomacher by Cartier that she is wearing as a hat ornament in the earlier photos.  This is really is a lovely piece of Belle Époque jewellery and I believe that Cartier still possess the cast of this piece.  Set with diamonds and pearls, it is intended to be worn on the front of the bodice and is a departure form the traditional forms of stomacher that were fashionable in the 18th and 19th centuries and which we associate with Queen Mary; these normally are composed of interlockuing and usually detachable ornaments, whereas this piece is really like a huge oversized brooch......Very lovely - I wonder what became of it and whether Olga managed to take her jewels out of Russia.......?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LecomtedeMazzano on July 03, 2005, 05:06:30 AM
I would like to have some information about the palace of the princess Paley (morganatic wife of Granduke Paul), where I can find pictures of it, if it still exists and, also, where has gone the furnishing of the palace after the revolution. A detailed answer will be appreciated. So I would like to have some informations about Princess Paley, about her first family and about the marriage with Granduke Paul.
Thank you very much.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2005, 02:45:28 PM
Princess Paley was born Olga Valerianovna Karnovich in 1866.  She married Grand Duke Paul in 1902.  In 1904, the Prince Regent of Bavaria created her Countess von Hohenfelson and in 1915 Nicholas II created her Princess Paley.  

Her parents were Valerian Valerianovich Karnovich and Olga Meszaros.

Her children:

Prince Vladimir (1897-1918), executed with his Aunt Ella in 1918 and thrown down a mine shaft.  He was a talented poet.

Princess Irina (1903-1990), married Prince Feodor Alexandrovich of Russia (nephew of Nicholas II) and had a son, Michael.  Irina divorced him and married Count Hubert de Monbrison and had a daughter, Irina.

Princess Natalia (1905-1981), married Lucien Lelong and divorced and then married John Wilson and lived and died in New York City.

Princess Paley had an unfortunate life, her husband and son both being murdered by the Soviets.

I'm not sure about her palace, but I remember reading that at one point she tried to sue the government to get her belongings back.  I don't remember if the suit was successful or not.

Hope this helps!!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2005, 02:50:16 PM
She died 1929 in Paris.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 03, 2005, 03:00:39 PM
What has not been mentioned is that at the start of her romance with Grand Duke Paul, she was still married to Major-General Eric von Pistolkors of the Chevaliers Guards Regiment of a very prominent Baltic family from Tartu (Dorpat) in Livland. Her romance with GD Paul was a double egded sword, bring her great happiness and  great sorrow.

DAP
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 03, 2005, 03:03:10 PM
Did she have children with Pistolkors?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 03, 2005, 03:21:35 PM
Yes she did. I found a link to a photograph of her son Alexander taken at his graduation from the Ecole des Pages in 1905:
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/lweb/eresources/exhibitions/pages/html/2q001.html

If I remember correctly Alexander had a strained  relationship with his mother after she ran off with Grand Duke Paul. Alexander went on to marry the younger sister of Anna Vyrubova. This marriage could not have helped to improve Princess Paley's relationship with Empress Alexandra.

DAP
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Martyn on July 05, 2005, 07:08:41 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v404/SMROD/Royalty%202/OlgaPcssPaley.jpg)

My very favourite image of Princess Paley.

Dressed for a costume ball held by the Comtesse d'Yturbe in 1913, she is the very epitome of elegance.  Easy to see why Paul fell in love with her.

It is said that Olga was the only person to have made an effort to have friendly relations with Alix towards the end.......
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Marc on July 05, 2005, 07:16:31 AM
Any regal colour portraits of her or her children?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: RealAnastasia on July 05, 2005, 08:01:17 PM
She dead for she suffered from breast cancer.

RealAnastasia.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on July 06, 2005, 04:11:20 PM
Anyone know anything about her lawsuit to retrieve her belongings in Russia?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Marc on July 07, 2005, 06:03:58 AM
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y140/auersperg23/Paley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on July 07, 2005, 11:16:43 AM
Quote
Anyone know anything about her lawsuit to retrieve her belongings in Russia?


I imagine that it failed as with other such lawsuits. The Dowager Empress filed such a suit to block the sale of her personal property at a well known London auction house. It was determined in an English court that the Government of the Soviet Union owned these articles under a Soviet law nationalising such property, and therefore had the right to dispose of such property as it saw fit. If the British Government had not already recognised the Soviet Union and traded diplomatic personel, the suit would likely have gone in favour of the Dowager Empress.

DAP
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on July 15, 2005, 11:50:43 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/olgapaveleugen.jpg)

Olga and Pavel at the height of their romance.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Bsquared on August 08, 2005, 04:55:21 AM
When in exile in Paris after the Revolution, did Princess Paley have money and properties at her disposal in France to enable her to survive in exile?  
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on August 08, 2005, 02:58:06 PM
Quote
Did she have children with Pistolkors?


She had three children with Mr. Pistolkors: (from what i know of; they were born in the 1880s or early 1890s)

Alexander    Marianna   Olga



I'm at my Aunt's house for the rest of the week :-/, so when i get home ;i'll chick again.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchess_42 on August 09, 2005, 11:45:51 AM
Quote

She had three children with Mr. Pistolkors: (from what i know of; they were born in the 1880s or early 1890s)

Alexander    Marianna   Olga



I'm at my Aunt's house for the rest of the week :-/, so when i get home ;i'll chick again.



thank you never knew she had children
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 09, 2005, 10:23:21 PM
I think Marianne's married name was Zarnekau, or something like that....

One of the daughters was married and expecting a child when Paul and Olga came back to St. Petersburg to live for the last time....I wonder what happened to her?

Did they escape during the revolution with Olga and her younger daughters?

Does anyone know where Olga ended up living in exile?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on August 10, 2005, 02:52:43 AM
There are still many von Pistolkors living in Estonia and Latvia. The von Pistolkors mansion in the center of Tartu can be seen at the link below:

http://linnamuuseum.tartu.ee/en/museum/history.html

Princess Paley's youngest daughter from her first marriage, Marianne von Pistohlkors, was born on 30 June 1890 at St. Petersburg. On 30 October 1917 at Tsarskoye-Selo, she was married to Nikolai Konstantinovich von Zarnekau, Count von Zarnekau, the son of Konstantin Friedrich Peter von Holstein-Gottorp, Duke of Oldenburg and Agrippina Djaparidze. The couple were divorced in 1930.

Below is a link to a story about Princess Paley's grand-daughter by her son Alexander von Pistolkors and his wife Alexandra. The text is in Swedish but there are some pre-1917 photographs:

http://www.viken.cc/b20.html
     
David


PS: Marianne von Pistolhkors, later Countess von Zarkenkau died on 14 May 1976 at New York City.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 10, 2005, 07:52:55 AM
Thanks, David, for the interesting links!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 10, 2005, 07:41:04 PM
I find myself so intrigued by Princess Paley and her family.  She was a stunningly beautiful woman, though not traditionally so.  Her taste in fashion was exquisite, she must have loved entertaining and social events.

Judging by Volodia's poetry and Natalie's careers as well, they must have been and extremely intellectual, talented, and artistic family....
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on August 10, 2005, 10:56:05 PM
Grand Duke Paul was not your average grand duke. He was much more liberal and contemplative than the rest of his family. I believe that he would have made a wonderful reformist emperor, that is if he replaced Nicholas II before 1904. I am sure that his worldliness and his open mind was most attractive to Princess Paley.

David
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 11, 2005, 07:48:42 AM
Yes, I'm sure you are right, David.  He would have been great as a tsar, may have saved the dynasty....
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Dominic_Albanese on August 11, 2005, 08:22:47 AM
David - I have had some trouble getting genealogy details on the children from her first marriage.  I show three children Alexander (Born 1885); Olga (Born 1888) and now I have more info on the youngest daughter Marianna thans to you.  

Do you know of an online genealogy source on this family?

Thanks so much.

best,
dca

Quote
There are still many von Pistolkors living in Estonia and Latvia. The von Pistolkors mansion in the center of Tartu can be seen at the link below:

http://linnamuuseum.tartu.ee/en/museum/history.html

Princess Paley's youngest daughter from her first marriage, Marianne von Pistohlkors, was born on 30 June 1890 at St. Petersburg. On 30 October 1917 at Tsarskoye-Selo, she was married to Nikolai Konstantinovich von Zarnekau, Count von Zarnekau, the son of Konstantin Friedrich Peter von Holstein-Gottorp, Duke of Oldenburg and Agrippina Djaparidze. The couple were divorced in 1930.

Below is a link to a story about Princess Paley's grand-daughter by her son Alexander von Pistolkors and his wife Alexandra. The text is in Swedish but there are some pre-1917 photographs:

http://www.viken.cc/b20.html
      
David


PS: Marianne von Pistolhkors, later Countess von Zarkenkau died on 14 May 1976 at New York City.
 

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 11, 2005, 04:27:23 PM
It doesn't have anything about her Pistolkors grandchildren.  Anyone know who they were, etc.?

Wasn't Alexander von Pistolkors married to the sister of Anna Vyrubova?  What was her name?  Did they have children?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on August 11, 2005, 05:55:41 PM
Her name was Alexandra Tanaieva (younger sister of Anna). Alexandra and Alexander von Pistolkors married in 1910 and had three daughthers- Tatiana (b.1910), Olga (b.1912) and Alexandra (b.1914). Not sure if they had more children. ?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 11, 2005, 07:55:56 PM
Thanks so much, Mandie!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on August 12, 2005, 12:18:33 AM
On 29 October 1904, when the Prince Regent of Bavaria conferred the title  of Gräfin (Countess) von Hohenfelsen upon Olga Valarianova Karnovich, aka Madame von Pistohlkors, aka Princess Paley, he also granted her the hereditary noble coat-of-arms below:

(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7250/hohenfelsen5hb.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 12, 2005, 07:00:37 AM
What made the Prince Regent of Bavaria create Olga a countess?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on August 12, 2005, 08:14:25 AM
Quote
Princess Paley's youngest daughter from her first marriage, Marianne von Pistohlkors, was born on 30 June 1890 at St. Petersburg. On 30 October 1917 at Tsarskoye-Selo, she was married to Nikolai Konstantinovich von Zarnekau, Count von Zarnekau, the son of Konstantin Friedrich Peter von Holstein-Gottorp, Duke of Oldenburg and Agrippina Djaparidze. The couple were divorced in 1930.

 


The Zanekau's had some interesting marriages. Nikolai's sister Alexandra Grafin von Zarnekau  married 11 Feb 1900 (div 1908) Prince George Yurievsky (son of AII & Katia) in Nice.

Their brother Alexei was murdered by the Bolsheviks at St Petersburg 16 Sept 1918 the same month he married an Anna Behrs. I guess his crime was being a close-enough-Romanov like Vladimir Paley.

Their first cousin was Peter of Oldenburg who married GDss Olga A.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on August 12, 2005, 09:14:08 AM
There was an online article written about her. It's in Russian and long and I'm working my way through it. Where meaning could be misunderstood by me too much I've left the awkward phrasing so as not to change anything significant.

She knew how to love. She knew the price of high suffering. She knew how to hate. Her ambition and vanity knew no limit in the achievement of the objective. In order to attain that desired it she was, at times, impossible. She feared no one ever. She quivered only before her husband and her whom she infinitely adored. Her fascination was so attractive, that, calling her for the eyes "predator, by upstart", by "lady - polkovnitsey", half of high-society Petersburg considered it an honor to breakfast or to finish dinner with her the Countess Hohenfels, princess morganatic princess of  the junior uncle of the sovereign Nicholas II, Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich Romanov. Olga Karnovich, charming, lively girl with the deep, dark as river pool, eyes, the daughter of state councilor and Valerian Karnovich and Olga Vasilyevna Meszaros. In the childhood of Lel' * (* childhood nickname of Olga) She did not especially trouble her parents: she learned lustrously, reading Lermontova and Pushkin, extracting into the writing-books memorable lines, even drawing herself by the slate pencil above the simple rhymes, diligently she learned the piano, but on the children's balls was unequalled in the dance of the mazurka and intricate movements of the quadrille. Also - there was the attention of the young cavaliers. But separately all all around her noted her extraordinary courtesy to the elders, skill to hold themselves with the merit and, by rare for so young a creation, time. The penetrating and caustic observers, however, said here that the respect of the girl sometimes bordered on the sticky over-sweetness of servility, and in everything - will know how "to go far and to leave – far.

The tender, poetic youth of Olen’ki Karnovich ended more rapidly than is usual for the girl with her high secret desires and inextinguishable flame of ambition in the soul. Before she was twenty she married the lieutenant of horse guards Eric - Gerhard von Pistolkors and within three years she had already became the mother of three children – of a son and two daughters - and the very respectable regimental lady, whose straight responsibility it was to arrange methods, make visits. Young, elegant lady, the husband of a regimental officer she knew how to make fascinating conversations and therefore was rapidly by a circle of admirers devoted to her, among whom, was Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich himself the uncle of the young emperor, who commands the tsarist guards. This acquaintance gave Olga much luster in the eyes of those surrounding. Much  was spoken. For example, then the judge and patron of fine arts, Grand Duke Vladimir Alexandrovich was clear without the mind from Olga and about this they knew everything, besides her unlucky husband and wife of the grand duke-- terrible and brilliant, arrogant Marie Pavlovna, which Olga who also knew how to charm and to captivate. Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, called Miechen, who claimed to the role of the ‘first lady of the empire’ and always and everywhere leading, reigning, supposedly another empress. She brought Olga on friendly visits, invited her to tea in her luxurious palace on the palace embankment.

The Grand Duchess, obviously pleased herself to listen to the incense of refined flattery which ‘neustanno’ smoked around her new friend. It is interesting how if by accident, there suddenly fell into Marie Pavlovna’s hands one of the scented notes of Madame Pistolkors which she sent into abundance to Grand Duke Vladimir. I will give the text only of one "romantic - prohibitive" nature of the message: "by my road be commander-in-chiefing! You were so good to me to drop in, and, spoiled by you, I vaguely hoped that you will repeat your attempt. But, alas! That is why in the life there are disappointments,  that we hope for too much!!! Thus, before my departure I will not really see you? Today I confess, tomorrow am introduced, and therefore - you prostate [?] me, culpable, in - the first, in everything, and the second for the fact that I will ask you to arrive on Thursday, from three to six, or on Saturday at the same time. I beg you to drop in because I want to give you, as always, a small Easter egg and fear that I will not see you before the  holiday. By always entire heart your - Olga Pistol'kors." (April of 1898)

And although Olga in her other messages ardently entreated "tsarskorodnogo" worshipper, "to hush up before all about our correspondence and to tear astrakmans", they so remained in Vladimir Alexandrovich's papers. He too valued them to destroy."Favors" fell to the modest "regimental couple" from all sides. The career of Eric Pistol'kors, who through his fingers looks at the high-society escapades of his fascinating and captivating wife, became Colonel. The Grand Duchess valued her friendship, devoted to the family and family secrets, she invited her to the balls and routs. How but could be turned the head of this poor “madame la colonel”? Olga’s head actually probably turned because of her fascination to others was multiplied. She was given Parisian caps and toilettes, treasures - gifts of admirers - and the bright parties, in which was assembled noble surnames from the number of officers of guards. Here there were members of the Romanov dynasty. There are here the representatives of romanovskoy dynasty. Often in these gatherings was the not long widowed Grand Duke Pavel Alexandrovich, together with the nephew, then still the heir of throne, Cesarevitch Nikolai and cousin Constantine Constantinovich. Evenings were carried out very pleasantly. Remained entry in Constantine Constantinovich's diary about one these evenings: "on 8 June, 1893. In seven is hour we from Niki they went to have dinner into krasnoe selo, to the wife of konnogvardeytsa Pistol'kors…. There were there Pavel, Madame Trepova, the new commander of the escort  meyendorf and his wife... after obtaining from her notes with the invitations, we were confused; Niki wrote to Pavel; what is to be done? Pavel requested to arrive, indicating that it will be very gay. And actually, it was boringly not. Champagne again flowed in the abundance and my cesarevitch my went on a spree. However, he can drink and very much, but always - he is sober. We returned to the camp in the twelfth to the hour of night."

Mistress invited to be also, kingly guests - solidly promised, and one additional high-society victory: her modest urban house soon will be visited by the heir himself!  But the heir did not. Other matters turned him: the wedding of his cousin, the Duke of York, and his own betrothal with the Hessian princess Alix. Madame Pistolkors, sighing sometimes about that not disposing, long years trembling stored Nikolai vtory's note, which he sent on the eve of the cancelled breakfast: " Greatly I please to forgive me, but in view of the my earlier departure into England, not had have pleasures to breakfast you in the city, as it was agreed earlier. Those more I will regret, that the breakfast in you could serve as the continuation of that excellent evening of eighth June, which so gaily passed in your red."

She wonderfully sang operatic arias, played on the piano, was up to date in all literary novelties, could support the conversation in the unconstrained manner, to each guest she attempted to pay attention and to do so that this guest, would feel itself significant and respected that evening. The nature of Grand Duke Pavel, who in the extensive Romanov family was famous for his natural artistic taste, refinement of taste and predilection for the amateurish theatrical productions and by certain tendency toward only deliberate melancholy. Olga struck by the fact that itself, first acknowledged to him the boundless love, after sending the poetic acknowledgement: "I cannot forget the strange instant! Now you for me and happiness and rest! In you my dreams, hope….From now on life my, is filled by you. In you also, my friend, is strong vospominan'e, You cannot forget your past.  But on the mouths of your burns already priznan'e  And your heart it again is desirable to love! And I love you! so you I will warm! In my embraces you again will revive. You will take pity then above the tenderness moyeyu And it is more perhaps me you will not repel!" August of 1893.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on August 12, 2005, 12:33:22 PM
Quote
What made the Prince Regent of Bavaria create Olga a countess?


The Prince Regent of Bavaria was asked by his friend Grand Duke Paul to grant her an appropriate title since Nicholas II would not.

David
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 12, 2005, 05:24:48 PM
Grandduchessella,
Thank you so very much for the article.  It is certainly wonderful and you did a good job on the translation, something I could not have attempted.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 12, 2005, 05:25:25 PM
I wonder where the "Paley" title came from.  It does not sound Russian....
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: David_Pritchard on August 12, 2005, 06:08:09 PM
Quote
I wonder where the "Paley" title came from.  It does not sound Russian....


It came from the frst name of her husband Pavel add a suffix of -y (actually -ei in cyrillic) to mean from or of Pavel and then drop the "v".

The Princes Yurievsky came by their family name in an interesting fashion. Their mother was Princess Dolgoruka, the city of Moscow was founded by her ancestor Prince Yuri Dolgoruki. Take his first name and convert it into Yurievsky mean of or from Yuri.

David
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on August 12, 2005, 06:23:52 PM
Thanks, David, for taking the time to answer my questions.

It is interesting how they came up the titles for the morgantic wives.

Audrey Emery's title must have come from Dmitri's Ilyinskoe estate.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: eve on August 17, 2005, 10:30:42 PM
The lawsuit to retreive her belongings was commenced in England in 1929 and was unsucessfull. It is a very famous common law case in the area of Private international law. The case citation is: Princess Paley Olga v Weisz[1929] 1 K.B. 718
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: lancashireladandre on September 19, 2005, 01:34:22 PM
Hans Nadelhoffer -who sadly died in1988, only 4 years after his authorative work on Cartier was published- told me that Olga Paley managed to save the Cartier items by sending them out with a foreigner (though not Albert Stopford). These gems and the house in Paris that GD Paul had bought from the Youssoupoff family provided her family(she had a son and 2 daughters by her first marriage,all of whom managed to escape) with enough money to live in the early years. However shortly before her death she lost in London a court case to try and recover the contents of her Tsarskoe Selo house which the Soviets had shipped to the west to sell. This swallowed up most of the remaining money.In a slim way Cartiers involvement  with the Paley family continued. Natasha Wilson would later own a huge multi-gem clip & two bracelets made especially for her great friend  Mrs Cole Porter and given to her by the composer after his wife's death as a memento. These gems are often exhibited in books or at Cartier exhibitions as prime examples of the grat jewellwers "tutti fruitti"jewels.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: amelia on September 19, 2005, 07:17:02 PM
Dear Lisa,


I just saw your posting about the book that Francois Mitterrand wrote about the royal fammilies after the war. Is the book in English?

Thank you
Amelia
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Eddie_uk on September 24, 2005, 05:49:47 AM
For anyone wanting to learn more about the Paleys - In "The Romanovs 1818 - 1959" by John van der Kiste they are mentioned frequentlly and is a good read.  :D
Awful what happened to Grand Duke Paul. Princess Paley ends her memoirs on a very sad note I seem to recall.   :(
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on September 24, 2005, 09:22:51 AM
I think it is sad that the Paley family did not flourish and produce descendants.... :'(
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Helen_Azar on September 24, 2005, 09:29:24 AM
Prince Vladimir Paley (the poet):

(http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5161/princepaley8ig.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Luke on October 04, 2005, 12:46:16 AM
Princess Olga Valerianovna Paley (1866–1929)



(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Luke03/PcssPaleyJewels.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/Luke03/Paley3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on October 06, 2005, 11:43:11 AM
That article about Prince Vladimir is fascinating. It is obvious that he was very thoughful, and talented and that Russia lost someone who was important to their country, not only to people who supported the Romanovs. He was not comptely Romanov, had never done anything wrong, and was very gifted, so he should have been allowed to live. His death is one of the most senseless ones apart from that of the Imperial family, and so brutal. I am sure that those Bolsheviks got their eventual punishment   ;) so I don't worry. But Prince Vladimir was an asset that could never be replaced.  :'( I have been fascinated with him since I first read his name. Does anyone have any other thoughts about him, or any his verse, or examples of it.
And he was so good looking. 8)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: amelia on October 06, 2005, 12:05:44 PM
Dear Romanov_fan,


Eurohistory.com (Arturo Beeche) published a book on Prince Vladimir, A poet among the Romanovs.  It is very good, with nice photographs and a lot of information that I never read before.

Amelia
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on October 06, 2005, 09:29:29 PM
God is in Every Place and Thing...

God is in every place and thing,
Not only in our lucky star,
Not only in the fragrant flower,
Not just in joys sweet dreams bring,
But also in the darkness of poverty,
The sightless terror of our vanity,
In hurtful things, where light is not,
In things to bear which is our lot...
God's in the tears of our pain,
The wordless sorrow of goodbyes,
The faithless seekings of our brain,
In suffering itself is God.
It is through life upon this sod,
That we must reach the unknown land,
Where the crimson trails of nails
Lord Christ will touch the wounds of man.
And that is why all flesh must die,
And why God is in all that is.

by Prince Vladimir Paley
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on October 06, 2005, 09:34:15 PM
And from a poem entitled "Inscription on a Grave":

"His soul with tired wings
will fly up, murdered, to the Creator."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on October 07, 2005, 10:48:23 AM
Thank you so much for posting some of Prince Vladimir's poems, the first one especially. He was talented, more than that thought depply about things for someone age only 21 at death, but than I guess poets are deep thinkers. When did he write that first one, does anyone know?

I enjoyed that he regcognized that God is not only in the good in life, but the bad too, that out of bad comes good, and that God is in the bad things too because they are for our good.
His language in describing how God is in the bad things is excellant. I loved the '' in the wordless sorrow of goodbyes'' part.That reminds of the Romanov's last days, and their goodbyes to each other, some in the case of Prince Vladimir forever. It is also reminds me of parting with anything, of loss.

I like to write poetry and I have always thought that poets can write something relevant to their day and age, but one which a century down means the same thing to another person in a different age. The loss of Prince Vladimir Paley so young was very tragic  :( But I think Prince Vladimir realized what was important in life, and death.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on October 07, 2005, 10:50:27 AM
Thank you so much for posting some of Prince Vladimir's poems, the first one especially. He was talented, more than that thought depply about things for someone age only 21 at death, but than I guess poets are deep thinkers. When did he write that first one, does anyone know?

I enjoyed that he regcognized that God is not only in the good in life, but the bad too, that out of bad comes good, and that God is in the bad things too because they are for our good.
His language in describing how God is in the bad things is excellant. I loved the '' in the wordless sorrow of goodbyes'' part.That reminds of the Romanov's last days, and their goodbyes to each other, some in the case of Prince Vladimir forever. It is also reminds me of parting with anything, of loss.

I like to write poetry and I have always thought that poets can write something relevant to their day and age, but one which a century down means the same thing to another person in a different age. The loss of Prince Vladimir Paley so young was very tragic  :( But I think Prince Vladimir realized what was important in life, and death.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on October 07, 2005, 08:38:51 PM
Vladimir's mother wrote this about him:

"Ever since the age of thirteen Vladimir had been writing delightful verses....Each time he returned home, his poetic talent displayed itself more decidedly....He availed himself of every free moment to devote his mind to his cherished poetry.  By temperament a dreamer, he observed everything, and nothing escaped his subtle, watchful attention....He loved Nature ardently.  He went into ecstasy over everything God had created.  A moonbeam inspired him, the scent of a flower gave him an idea for a poem.  He had a prodigious memory.  What he knew, what he had time to read in his short life, was truly marvelous"
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on October 07, 2005, 08:49:22 PM
Paley was truly a remarkable poet.  He was inspired as well by the poetry of his cousin, Grand Duke Constantine Constantinovich, who considered Paley his literary heir, and thought of him as sort of a son.  Paley translated the Grand Duke's play, The King of the Jews, into French.

His early death was a great loss to Russia, IMO.  His only crime was being related to a family which he was technically not part of.

Here is a link to an extremely good article about Prince Vladimir Paley:

http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/library_en/royal_paley.html
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on October 07, 2005, 09:04:42 PM
O, Gentle Light

O, gentle Light! O, one true God!
Send us the blessing of Thy rays,
Within the mystic setting place
The diamonds of our yearning hearts.
Worn out am I with silent pain
And know not what my soul could fill,
So let it be Thyself, Thy grace,
Which in my soul shall henceforth reign.
In me but barely flickers still
The dream which I cannot attain,
So take it, take to paradise,
Where there is beauty, all serene.
And Thou, O Virgin full of grace,
Protect a life so young, so green,
And let Thy hand extract unseen
The strain of sadness from my lays.
O, keep it safe! In it repose
All strivings and all thoughts of light.
It is the pledge of earthly love,
Of all my springs it is the source.
O, keep it safe above the clouds,
Within the peace of azure heights,
And, when our carefree times return,
Anew to my embrace restore.
And then some strain not heard before
Upon this earth will in my verse
Ring ever more.  All that is right,
Holy and high will then unite
And merge into life-giving fire.
Then echoes of an angels' choir,
As limpid as a tear will rise,
And I shall know then that Thine eyes
Have searched and seen my heart's desire.

by Prince Vladimir Paley


Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on October 10, 2005, 10:41:12 AM
Thank you for posting that poem of Prince Vladimir Paley, and your thoughts about  him. I enjoyed all his poems, he was very pereceptive, and really understood many deep things. The more I read of his writings, and learn about him, the more I realize he was a great loss to Russia, and literature.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on October 10, 2005, 12:41:56 PM
Princess Paley was a fascinating woman, and very physically beautiful, and it is too bad that there isn't a biography of her or is there? Her children are fascinating, they all had interesting lives ( her children by Grand Duke Paul). It is too bad Prince Vladimir didn't live longer, because he would have been the most accomplished of the children. Interesting thread.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Emilia on February 19, 2006, 12:55:53 PM
I have a question about Vladimir Paley: Was his nickname really Bodya?
(source:http://www.nikolairomanov.com/doc/iv13pre/index.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 19, 2006, 09:55:45 PM
Among his family, he was known as "Volodia".
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on February 20, 2006, 02:53:30 AM
His nickname was "Bot'ka" according to GDss Maria Pavlovna-younger.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Emilia on February 20, 2006, 06:42:22 AM
Quote
His nickname was "Bot'ka" according to GDss Maria Pavlovna-younger.


Thank you! Always those bad-researched articles! ::)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: dp5486 on March 04, 2006, 12:04:38 PM
What was the nature of the relationship between Grand Duke Paul and the children of his wife's previous marriage? I was reading the account of the revolution by Lili Dehn and she mentions that Alexandra von Pistolkors had taken leave of her sick sister (Ania Vyrubova) at the Alexander Palace and left for Grand Duke Paul's palace in Tsarskoe Selo.

How did the von Pistolkors make it out of Russia (with their mother or half-sisters?

Thanks!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 05, 2006, 09:53:48 AM
The girls spent most of their childhood in Paris where their parents were in exile. They lived in Russia for a short time during WWI until they needed to escape the Bolsheviks in 1918. They fled via Finland, where they were eventually reunited with their mother, Princess Paley, and able to return to Paris.

Irina married her cousin, Prince Feodor Alexandrovich, which made her a niece by marriage to Nicholas and Alexandra. They had two children, Michael and Irina, and had descendants from both. By the way, when I read on another thread that there were no Paley descendants, I was going to point out that due to these descendants, that's not strictly true.

Natalia had a career as an actress and model, her last husband was a theatrical producer. I have heard from this man's family, and they arranged her funeral and burial. Natalia Paley had no children.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: frimousse on March 07, 2006, 11:21:54 PM
Don't forget to specify that Nathalie (or Nataliya in Russian) Paley's first husband was Lucien Lelong, the famous French couturier during the twenties and thirties.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: frimousse on March 07, 2006, 11:37:59 PM
Quote
I think it is sad that the Paley family did not flourish and produce descendants.... :'(

Irina Paley married prince Feodor Alexandrovich who lived in Biarritz France, they had two children Irina ( Irène) and Mikhail ( called officially as a French citizen Michel Romanoff); Mikhail Feodorovich had a carreer in French film business. He was a charming old gentleman, and spent mostly his life in Paris and Biarritz ( famous French resort  on the Atlantic Coast where he was raised) and afterwards in Spain after the tragic death of his unique son in India in 2001. He adopted his orphaned grand daughter Tatiana.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: AkshayChavan on March 08, 2006, 06:09:37 AM
Death of his son in India in 2001? Never heard of it, Could you give me more details?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: José on March 08, 2006, 11:34:55 AM
It seems a very strange story  :P:

Michael (or Michel) had a son another Michael, b.Paris 1959-died Mumbai 2001.
Does someone know how ?
Michael (junior) had a daughter Tatiana (b.1986 ) by Mercedes Ustrell-Cabani (b. 1960 )

In 1994 Michael (senior) married Mercedes  :o , his grand-daughter's mother .
He also adopted her grand-daughter but I don't know if that happened before/after Michael (junior)´s death.

Could the child be Michael's senior   ;D ?

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: frimousse on March 08, 2006, 12:28:20 PM
No it was not  question of what you think...Michel was a perfect gentleman, this solution was due to material help towards Tatiana. I can't  say anything more about his son's very sad death for a father, because it was too recent... and we must respect on this forum private life of people who proved to be absolutely respectable to such an extent that they found "different" solutions to very difficult situations and who are still alive...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Paul on March 10, 2006, 12:43:43 PM
A question, concerning Olga's Hohenfelsen title.

Following her marriage to Paul, Olga was granted the title of Countess Hohenfelsen in 1904 by Prince Regent Leopold of Bavaria.
Why did the Prince Regent of Bavaria give her a title?

Was this a courtesy, extended from one reigning family to another? Did Grand Duke Paul pay the Bavarians for the title?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Maximilian on March 10, 2006, 02:13:32 PM
Quote
Following her marriage to Paul, Olga was granted the title of Countess Hohenfelsen in 1904 by Prince Regent Leopold of Bavaria.
Quote


Indeed, and by the way, who is the current Count/ Countess Hohenfelsen? is Prince Michael Feodorovich the current count Hohenfelsen?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 10, 2006, 04:29:06 PM
Quote
Why did the Prince Regent of Bavaria give her a title?



I think Paul and the Prince Regent of Bavaria were friends, and Olga received her title as a result of that friendship.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 10, 2006, 04:30:19 PM
Quote
Indeed, and by the way, who is the current Count/ Countess Hohenfelsen? is Prince Michael Feodorovich the current count Hohenfelsen?


I would think that the title is extinct, as it was German and could not pass through women.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 10, 2006, 04:50:19 PM
Does anyone know if Prince Vladimir Paley had any romantic interests?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on March 11, 2006, 07:14:38 AM
Quote
The girls spent most of their childhood in Paris where their parents were in exile. They lived in Russia for a short time during WWI until they needed to escape the Bolsheviks in 1918. They fled via Finland, where they were eventually reunited with their mother, Princess Paley, and able to return to Paris.

Irina married her cousin, Prince Feodor Alexandrovich, which made her a niece by marriage to Nicholas and Alexandra. They had two children, Michael and Irina, and had descendants from both. By the way, when I read on another thread that there were no Paley descendants, I was going to point out that due to these descendants, that's not strictly true.

Natalia had a career as an actress and model, her last husband was a theatrical producer. I have heard from this man's family, and they arranged her funeral and burial. Natalia Paley had no children.


Are you sure that Feodor and Irina Paley had two childs ? I believed they had a only son, Michel, because in the Documentary "Mémoires d'éxil", Frederic Mitterrand never called to an another child of this couple.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ukupeeter on March 11, 2006, 09:29:01 AM
3h) Feodor (St.Petersburg 23 Dec 1898-Ascain, France 30 Nov 1968); m.Paris 21 May 1923 (div 1936) Pss Irina Paley (1903-1990)





1i) Pr Michael Romanov (b.Paris 4 May 1924); m.1st Paris 15 Oct 1958 (div 1992) Helga Staufenberger (b.Vienna 22 Aug1926); m.2d Josse 15 Jan 1994 Maria de las Mercedes Ustrell-Cabani (b.Hospitalet, Spain 26 Aug 1960)
 



1j) Pr Michael Romanov (Paris 31 Jul 1959-Mumbai, India 24 Jan 2001)
 



1k) [by Mercedes Ustrell-Cabani] Tatiana (b.Bayonne 21 Oct 1986); she was adopted by her paternal grandfather





2i) Pss Irene Romanov (b.Fontenay 7 May 1934); m.1st Biarritz 23 Dec 1955 (div 1959) Andre Jean Pelle (b.Biarritz 29 Nov 1923); m.2d Le Pin 26 Dec 1962 (div) Victor-Marcel Soulas (b.St.Méen-le-Grand 26 Aug 1938)
 



1j) Alain Pelle, b.Biarritz 19 Sep 1956; m.Monbahus 14 May 1983 Pascale Deletre
 



1k) Olivier Pelle, b.Biarritz May 1984

2k) Christophe Pelle, b.Biarritz 15 Feb 1987
 
 


2j) Joelle Soulas, b.Marseille 12 May 1966

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ukupeeter on March 11, 2006, 09:30:18 AM
 Pss Irina Paley (Paris 21 Dec 1903-Biarritz 15 Nov 1990); m.1st Paris 4 Jun 1923 (div 1936) Feodor Pr of Russia (below); m.2d Biarritz 11 Apr 1950 Cte Hubert de Monbrison (St.Avertin, France 15 Aug 1892-château de St-Roch 14 Apr 1981)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ukupeeter on March 11, 2006, 09:33:22 AM
Pss Irene Romanov (b.Fontenay 7 May 1934) is a daugther of Cte Hubert de Monbrison, but legaly a daugther of Pr. Feodor Romanov
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on March 11, 2006, 10:19:24 AM
I understand better now... Thanks for this precious precision !
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: lancashireladandre on March 11, 2006, 11:52:00 AM
Natalie Paley is often mentioned in the numerous biographies of Cole Porter with whom her second husband the impresario Jack Wilson was linked Professionally (& some say romantically).The Wilsons were certainly part of the Porter set.After Linda Lee Porter died Cole gave Natalie 2 sumpteous Multistone bracelets and a matching double clip from Cartier that had belonged to his wife.On his own death she inherited a portrait of herself which had hung in pride of place in the composers apartment in the Waldorf Towers...Natalie was said to be a serial binge drinker because of her husbands bi sexual adventures......
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 11, 2006, 01:08:12 PM
Princess Natalie Paley, a beauty if ever there was one

(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/3513/nataliepaley3ae.jpg)


(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7077/nataliepaley25pm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on March 12, 2006, 01:48:50 AM
Quote
Does anyone know if Prince Vladimir Paley had any romantic interests?


Probably he had. Though I've never find out in books/articles related to him such info. Some extracts from his journals of 1917-1918 years are published in memories of his mother Olga Paley - there one can find only discourses about situation in Russia. :-/
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ukupeeter on March 12, 2006, 03:16:15 AM
Quote
No it was not  question of what you think...Michel was a perfect gentleman, this solution was due to material help towards Tatiana. I can't  say anything more about his son's very sad death for a father, because it was too recent... and we must respect on this forum private life of people who proved to be absolutely respectable to such an extent that they found "different" solutions to very difficult situations and who are still alive...



Prince Michael Feodorovich is not only a perfect gentelman  , he is a super-Romanov.

One his grandfather was Grand Duke Alexander Michailovich, another grandfather was Grand  Duke Paul Alexandrovich. And one grandmother was Grand Duchesse Ksenia Alexandrovna, daugther
of empror Alexander III.

Pr. Tatiana Romanova is so lucky! Michael Feodorovich is a perfect grandfather  .
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Maximilian on March 12, 2006, 09:40:31 AM
Quote
I would think that the title is extinct, as it was German and could not pass through women.


Well, the title was created for a woman; Mrs Olga Pistolkoffrs, later on, she passes her title to her children, therefore if the title was created for a woman it might be logic that could pass through women.
Thus there are descendents of the 1st Countess of Hohenfelsen who can claim their right to this title.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 12, 2006, 11:39:16 AM
Quote

Well, the title was created for a woman; Mrs Olga Pistolkoffrs, later on, she passes her title to her children, therefore if the title was created for a woman it might be logic that could pass through women.
Thus there are descendents of the 1st Countess of Hohenfelsen who can claim their right to this title.


Yes, the title was created for a woman.  But like other similar titles (Battenberg), it was created to avoid the embarassment of the woman and her children having no title at all.  Olga's daughters could have used the title, just like Julia Hauke's daughter Marie was Princess of Battenberg before she married.  Daughters would be expected to marry and their children would use whatever title the daughter married.  Unless there are special remainders of some kind, I don't know of any German title that can pass THROUGH a woman.  Irina's descendants are Romanovs, etc., not Paleys, and I guess they could claim the title but I think that claim would be suspect and tenuous.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 12, 2006, 11:11:19 PM
Quote

Well, the title was created for a woman; Mrs Olga Pistolkoffrs, later on, she passes her title to her children, therefore if the title was created for a woman it might be logic that could pass through women.
Thus there are descendents of the 1st Countess of Hohenfelsen who can claim their right to this title.


I think there is some confusion between titles and styles. The reason Paul's second wife needed a style - a way of being addressed - is that her husband's Imperial name was not available to her due to the difference in their ranks. She could be neither HIH The Grand Duchess Paul nor Mrs. Romanov. Thus, the style of Countess Hohenfelson (not 1st Countess of) was given to her so that she could be known by some name. However, there was no title to be passed down the line to her descendants.

Her son by the Grand Duke was at that time legally still the son of her former husband, having been born before the divorce. Their daughters were still unborn. I have no idea what the Paley girls were called before they returned to Russia during WWI.

What I do know is that the Tsar regularized their styles when they did. The wife was henceforth known as Princess Paley, and never again as Countess Hohenfelson, which I think if pretty good evidence that it was a style, not a title. Their son Vladimir was known as Prince Paley and their two daughters as Princess (First Name) Paley.

The daughters continued to be known by their Paley names and never used the Hohenfelson style of their mother, who died in 1929.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 13, 2006, 08:47:07 AM
Do you think that if Nicholas II had not welcomed them back to Russia and the Paley family remained in exile, that Vladimir, Irina, and Natalie would have been known as Count or Countess Hohenfelsen?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Maximilian on March 13, 2006, 08:49:06 AM
Quote
What I do know is that the Tsar regularized their styles when they did. The wife was henceforth known as Princess Paley, and never again as Countess Hohenfelson, which I think if pretty good evidence that it was a style, not a title. Their son Vladimir was known as Prince Paley and their two daughters as Princess (First Name) Paley.


Thank you Lisa Davidson,
What about of the title of Prince Paley, was this a title or a style? If this is a princely title. Who is the current Prince Paley? The Romanov- Paley branch is not extinct and still they can also claim this title.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 13, 2006, 04:36:00 PM
Quote

Thank you Lisa Davidson,
What about of the title of Prince Paley, was this a title or a style? If this is a princely title. Who is the current Prince Paley? The Romanov- Paley branch is not extinct and still they can also claim this title.


While the branch itself is not extinct, it is extinct in the male line and became so in 1918 with the murder of Prince Vladimir Paley.

Had Prince Paley been able to survive the Revolution, it would be likely that Kiril would have permitted a morganatic surname such as Romanovsky - Paley or some such concotion for his male line descendants.

The only remaining Paley descendants are the descendants of Princess Irene Paley, and they claim no such styles.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on March 13, 2006, 04:54:19 PM
Quote

I think there is some confusion between titles and styles. The reason Paul's second wife needed a style - a way of being addressed - is that her husband's Imperial name was not available to her due to the difference in their ranks. She could be neither HIH The Grand Duchess Paul nor Mrs. Romanov. Thus, the style of Countess Hohenfelson (not 1st Countess of) was given to her so that she could be known by some name. However, there was no title to be passed down the line to her descendants.

Her son by the Grand Duke was at that time legally still the son of her former husband, having been born before the divorce. Their daughters were still unborn. I have no idea what the Paley girls were called before they returned to Russia during WWI.

What I do know is that the Tsar regularized their styles when they did. The wife was henceforth known as Princess Paley, and never again as Countess Hohenfelson, which I think if pretty good evidence that it was a style, not a title. Their son Vladimir was known as Prince Paley and their two daughters as Princess (First Name) Paley.




In Education of a Princess, Grand Duchess Marie Pavlovna, eldest daughter of Grand Duke Paul by his first wife, Princess Alexandra of Greece, writes: "His wife now bore the Bavarian title of Countess Hohenfelsen; and their marriage had been recognized by the crown."
(p.101).  The German princes were famous for giving titles to their common/morgantic wives, titles that passed to the children.  I can think of several right off hand.  I imagine the title given by the Crown Prince of Bavaria to Olga would have been very similar to the Battenberg, Hartenau, or Hohenberg titles.  That was the only type of title he could have given.

Once Olga had been raised in status by the Emperor to "Princess", she of course had no use for her German title.  I would think that to continue to use it would have been a direct insult to the Emperor and that was the last thing Olga and Paul needed.

I think the confusion lies not in styles/titles, which can definitely be confusing, but in the fact that some seem not able to grasp the fact that in those days, very few titles passed THROUGH women.  

Simply put, there is no Count Hohenfelsen or Prince Paley today, not because Olga lacks descendants, but because she lacks them in the direct male line.



Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: anabel on March 19, 2006, 06:54:24 AM
Hi!

Does anybody have photos of Grand Duke Pavel´s house in Boulogne-Sur-Seine, where he lived with his family during his banishment from Russia? Thanks! :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on March 31, 2006, 08:30:05 AM
Prince Vladmir Paley fascinates me as a royal who died very young, but who we still know exactly what he did, and might have contributed to the world. He seems to have been a very talented, gifted young man, and good looking as well, that had his life taken from him unfairly, and he only a morgantic member of the family, and he had no connection to the political issues of the dynasty. If you read his poetry, you realize he was wise beyond his years, and beyond those of many people. The Paley thread has some good info on him, but I am happy to contribute to this thread as well. I started a thread about him last fall, that ended with someone giving me directions to the Paley thread, which is fascinating. :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Emilia on March 31, 2006, 08:52:44 AM
Has somebody read Vladimir´s biography, "A poet among the Romanovs" by Saenz? There must be some informnation on him in this book... ;)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on March 31, 2006, 10:04:37 AM
I have never bought it, nor read it, but I have long thought of buying it.. there are so many books though. I am sure it is a very good book, from what I've read about it.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Emilia on March 31, 2006, 01:31:10 PM
Two of Vladimir Paley´s poems:


THE GREAT LENT

Dark somber vestments… soft gentle singing…
Glowing reflection of red vigil lights…
O God Almighty! Grant me endurance:
Heaven and hell battle deep in my heart…
 
Whisper of prayers… Sternness of faces…
Sonorous censers and pale blue smoke…
O God Almighty! Grant me Thy mercy:
Lightly as incense I rise unto Thee!
 
Out of the church yet again I shall forfeit
Those solemn promises given to Thee –
Fortify me in this combat eternal,
Purify, Holy, my sin-laden soul!
 
Give me resolve to speak bravely and boldly
When I am caught in life’s prickly embrace.
Dark somber vestments… Evening twilight…
Yellow wax candles’ sorrowing flame…
 


 
GOD IS IN EVERY PLACE AND THING . . .

God is in every place and thing,
Not only in our lucky star,
Not only in the fragrant flower,
Not just in joys sweet dreamings bring,
But also in the dark of poverty,
The sightless terror of our vanity,
In hurtful things, where light is not,
In things to bear which is our lot…
God’s in the tears of our pain,
The wordless sorrow of goodbyes,
The faithless seekings of our brain,
In suffering itself is God.
It is through life upon this sod
That we must reach the unknown land,
Where with the crimson trail of nails
Lord Christ will touch the wounds of man.
And that is why all flesh must die,
And why God is in all that is.

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Emilia on April 03, 2006, 01:49:01 PM
Were Vladimir´s poems published or were they only know to the family (e.g. K.R. who praised him so much)?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: hg123 on April 03, 2006, 02:05:48 PM
As far as I know two books with his poems were published. One in 1916 and one in 1918. The last one probably not even half a year prior to his Death.  :'( His death is one of those, that makes me the most angry. Just thinking how much was wasted there.  :(

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on April 05, 2006, 08:13:08 AM
Yes, I agree about that. A very talented poet, and promising young man who could have contributed alot died when Vladimir died. The product of a morgantic marriage, he was one of the most talented of the Romanovs.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: s.v.markov on April 06, 2006, 02:01:47 AM
Followers of this thread may be interested in a book I've just posted on the 'Duplicate Books' thread ~'Memories of Russa, 1916 -19' by Princess Paley.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: frimousse on April 06, 2006, 11:48:05 AM
Quote
I have a question about Vladimir Paley: Was his nickname really Bodya?
(source:http://www.nikolairomanov.com/doc/iv13pre/index.html)

 Wladimir Paley's nickname was DEFINITLY : Botka : B-O-T-K-A , read Gd Duke Gabriel Konstantinovich memoirs...

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on April 13, 2006, 12:59:28 PM

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/natacha.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on April 18, 2006, 10:11:36 AM
Natalie married two times. The first, in 1929, with the french couturier Lucien Lelong :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/lelong.jpg)

After their divorce, she re-married with the american producer John C.Wilson :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/withhusband.jpg)

But, to the end of her life, she became blind and found oneself alone.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on April 18, 2006, 01:56:33 PM
I read somewhere that Natalia had a love affair with Erich Maria Remark... :-/
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 18, 2006, 02:33:51 PM
It's not quite true that Natalia Paley was alone at the end of her life. I have letters from her husband's family indicating that they looked after her. When she died, they took care of her funeral. In contrast to many of the exiled Romanovs, Natalia had both family and fortune.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Prince_Christopher on April 18, 2006, 03:31:39 PM
Anyone know where Natalie lived towards the end of her life?  Was it New York?  And where was she buried?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on April 18, 2006, 04:55:11 PM
She spent her final years in New York and is indeed buried there.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on April 23, 2006, 05:32:23 AM
Quote
It's not quite true that Natalia Paley was alone at the end of her life. I have letters from her husband's family indicating that they looked after her. When she died, they took care of her funeral. In contrast to many of the exiled Romanovs, Natalia had both family and fortune.

Just a precision.
When I explain that Natalie found oneself alone, I want to tell that she finished without husband and without childs. Of course, members of her family, like her nephew Michel Romanov for example, visited her until end of her life.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: griffh130 on May 11, 2006, 10:17:06 PM
In 1927 Princess Nathalie Paley married the Paris couturier. Lucien Lelong.  Because of her stunning beauty, the Princess modeled for Lelong and became one of Cecil Beaton's favorite people to photograph.  Many fashion photogaphs of her by Beaton appeared in Harper Baazar and Vouge in the late twenties and thirties.  Princess Paley caused a sensation when she appeared in a short evening coat that Lelong had made completely out of cellophane.  You can see several wonderful pictures of her in some of Beaton's books.  

Princess Nathalie Paley also became a film actress, appearing in Korda's "The Private Life of Don Juan" (1931), Marcel L'Herbier "L'epervier" (1933), George Cukor's "Sylvia Scarlett" (1935).  During her years as a film actress she met and became a close friend Katherine Hepburn, a friendship that lasted all through her life.

In 1937 she divorced Lelong and married theatre producer John Chapman Wilson and settled with him in New York City.  She returned to the fashion world and did promotion work Main Boucher.  It is really quite amazing that, after she passed on, she was laid to rest in the First Presbyterian Church of Ewing Cemetery, Trenton, New Jersey, not far from my home in Ocean Grove.  

I hope this information helps to fill in some of the Princess' accomplishments.  Post war society was torn by the collapse of a social order that had lasted for 500 years.  We still live in the wake of that decline but the post war generation felt it much more acutely and their dissolutionement understandably lead to social excesses and whirl-wind lives that were desparately trying to out pace the sorrow and depression that haunted them.

I am not sure that Princess Nathalie Paley ever fully recovered from the loss of her tremendously talented younger brother, Volodya, who perished when he was 20 years old with the Grand Duchess Ella other memebers of the Romanoff family in Alapayevsk on the evening of July 17, 1918.    
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on May 12, 2006, 09:25:06 AM
Some of Beaton's portraits of Natalie

http://www.npg.org.uk/live/search/person.asp?LinkID=mp63301



I found this info:

"Jean Cocteau, 1889-1963, was a french poet, novelist, dramatist, designer and filmmaker. He struggled with opium addiction for most of his adult life and was openly gay, though, in the 1930s, he had at least one significant affair with a woman, Princess Natalie Paley, the beautiful daughter of a Romanov grand duke and herself a major fashion-plate, sometime actress, model, and former wife of couturier Lucien Lelong. She became pregnant. To Cocteau's distress and Paley's lifelong regret, the fetus was aborted due to the intervention of Marie-Laure de Noailles, who had loved Cocteau as a young woman and was determined to ruin his new romance. Cocteau's most lasting relationship was with the handsome French actor Jean Marais, whom he discovered and cast in "Beauty and the Beast". "

In a bio of Jean Cocteau (by Jean Touzot: “Jean Cocteau - the poet and his doubles), the relationship is further elaborated on:

"It would have required that Nathalie Paley acknowledge their reports/ratios with her husband, Lucien Lelong. Since months, the jealousy which corrodes it ends up preventing it from living. They are perhaps these words of love which it received forever, those which Jean Cocteau, allotting the role of Tristan, writes in Iseult the blonde, alias Natalie Paley. “Jean, my love, I think of you continuously and loves you unbounded”, telegraphs him it. It has eyes only for the chimerical princess: “To think of you in this sun intoxication is a quite large pleasure....Ten years later, in its Newspaper, he [Cocteau] will write in connection with Marie Laure: “Its attitude during my loves with Natalie Paley is that of a heroin of Sthendal. Jealous and terrible, become the inseparable one from Natalie, tearing at home his hats and its dresses, wanting to draw up between us two like a head of Jellyfish.” “The word is of it”, specifies Jean Cocteau. [...] Of return in Paris, in a fit of anger, Marie Laure will destroy all that Cocteau gave him: sculpture of a head out of pipe-cleaner, the manuscript of the Explosive device and “other things still”, according to Charles de Noailles. Able to make pass an attack of nerves in surrealist act and the opposite, Marie Laure is known safe from no treason. Exhibitionist, it can be it from now on, because it knows that it very lost. It does not have anything any more to hide. “It broke all in the house, involved Charles and came recasser all at home, street Vignon, opposite Charles”, will tell Jean Cocteau. “The dramas started again until the famous slap of the hotel of the Madeleine. She deserved it. It was not for me the countess of Noailles. It was the small Marie Laure de Grasse, spoiled, disturbed, like Natalie, by films of Marlène and Garbo. Natalie attended this slap and feared to receive one from them. Jean Cocteau will sign his revenge in the End on Potomak, a novel gone back to 1939 when vis-a-vis the princess Fafner, the favorite one (it is of course about Natalie Paley), Marie Laure will appear as a viscountess Méduse.”



and also this book on amazon.fr

Natalie Paley : Princesse en exil by Jean-Noël Liaut

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: griffh130 on May 12, 2006, 11:02:50 AM
Thank you grandduchessella for that wonderful description of Princess Paley's stormy and tragic affair with Jean Cocteau and thank you for alerting us to the book, Princesse en exil by Jean-Noël Liaut.  

You know as I read the exerpt from Cocteau's biography describing that wonderfully excentric Countess de Noailles jealous rage and spitefullness I could not help being reminded of that fascinating film Cocteau made during the German occupation of Paris (which in itself was a scandal) called "Women of the Bois" where he describes the length jealousy and pride go to revenge a wounded heart.  The movie must have drawn, in part his stormy relationship with Princess Paley and the Countness de Noailles.  

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: frimousse on May 12, 2006, 12:23:46 PM
Frédéric Miterrand points in his documentary that Cocteau has largely exaggerated this relationship , a platonic affaire, he spent many times on the telephone spreading the news to his friends that he was in love with her.

In fact Nathalie was incapable of physical relationships. She was very much annoyed by all the fuss Cocteau made around her and broke relationship with indelicate Cocteau. He spoke about her  supposed pregnancy only afterwards, and to prove something she was very far to admit and understand. She was disgussed by all the noise about that.

When you read memoirs of other writers of this time, the "Tout Paris" laughed about this strange friendship between Princess Paley and Cocteau.

She was traumatized by her rape by the Bolsheviks in her teens. Even close romantic friendship was hard for her to maintain.
Luchino Visconti's sister had tried also to retain her, but as usual Nathalie escaped. She always escaped love ( as her half sister Marie Pavlovna did ) and ran away as far as possible.
She brought elegance and poetry to Lelong who needed her partnership for his social climbing. They appreciated each other, but no passion, no physical love was permitted. It was their deal...
As to Wilson he was a notorious homosexual, as practically nearly all the men who approached her in her private circle.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: griffh130 on May 12, 2006, 02:40:10 PM
Frimousse, I did not know that Nathalie had been sexually assaulted during the revolution!!!  How tragic that Princess Olga Paley was unable to save her daughter from that brutal humiliation.  I have heard that Audrey Hepburn’s titled but impoverished mother smeared Audrey with garbage during WWII so that the soldiers would not take advantage of her.  (I also just learned that the Castle Dorn, where the Kaiser spent his exile, was purchased from Audrey Hepburn’s grandmother)  

I must admit that it makes sense to me that Cocteau would have exaggerated his infatuation with Nathalie for it must have helped him maintain his very precarious place on the edge of the beau mode of Paris and London and have helped to have promoted himself as an artist.  

But Fimousse, I really can’t say that I see the connection with the Grand Duchess Marie.  I think that Marie was damaged by the separation from her father at an early age, the public humiliation he caused by his second marriage and then the loveless marriage that the Grand Duchess Ella, with the help of Princess Henry of Prussia, forced her into.  To me, Marie was struggling with a loss of power and was somehow more practical and not as innately alienated from love as Nathalie appeared to be from the information that you shared about her.  I think, from what you have shared, that Nathalie was probably much more akin to Irina Yousopov or Lady Diana Manners.      

I don’t know, I might be completely off base here but in thinking about the similarities of Nathalie with Diana Manners I searched about my library for the Philip Ziegler’s biography of Lady Diana Cooper.  The book was a gift from a great friend of mine Christiana von Zimmer, the daughter of Hugo von Hofmannsthal, the well-known Austrian poet and librettist for Richard Strauss.  

The book was Christiana’s parting gift to me when I left NYC and Ziegler’s description of Christiana’s brother, Raimund von Hofmannsthal’s infatuation with Lady Diana Manners captures the kind of “pseudo-romantic” passion that Cocteau might have felt for Nathalie even though Raimund was only 18 years old when he fell madly in love with Diana.  Clearly Raimund’s passion was that of a young novice but at the same time it was probably no less exaggerated as Cocteau’s for Nathalie.  And even though this is not about Nathalie, still Diana ran in the same international circles and I think her experience with Raimund helps to give historic context.  As the author Ziegler told Lady Manners, who was still living in 1982 when he wrote his book on her, “When I began the work I warned Diana that the many generations of middle-class respectability which lay behind me would make me out of sympathy with her attitudes…”

Diana had come to Salzburg in 1925 where she had gone to play the Madonna in “The Miracle.”  She was introduced to Hugo von Hofmannsthal but she found his son Raimund so attentive to her and so smitten with her beauty that she invited him to join her group of traveling companions when they got to San Francisco.  Raimund cabled his father, “If you met Helen and she asked you to go to Troy with her, would you send your son $100.?”  Well it turned out that his “besotted love” for Diana only took the form of running her bath, brushing her hair, taking off her shoes, and sitting outside her bedroom door all night long.  

In spite of the innocence of Raimund’s unrequited love for Diana the other male members of Diana’s traveling party, became madly jealous that one of the men threatened suicide, and all of them were “green-tinged with raging, furious jealousy over the child-lover,” and eventually all of them, including Raimund, walked out on her.  Even Diana’s husband in London was miffed by Raimund’s attentions to his wife.  He dashed off a disquieted letter of protest to Diana about her uncanny “fascination that German Jews (the Hofmannsthal’s were 1/8 Jewish) seem to possess for you,” and he continued to describe how another German Jew, Princess Elizabeth Bibesco had embarrassed everyone by passing out at the table during one of Lady Cunard’s dinner party.  Of course when Duff proceeded to go on a rampage with Michael Herbert and Fred Cripps in Paris, where the three were arrested for stealing taxis, Duff’s did not seem to connect his behavior to race.  As a matter of fact it was his constant repetition of, “Je suis un député très important,” ("I am a very important deputy") to his jailor’s that finally secured their release.  

Well I know that I have transgressed here from Nathalie but I was attempting to give a flavor of that group, the international set, that Nathalie ran with.  By-the-by Raimund went on to marry Prince Oblensky’s second wife, Alice Astor.  Alice played an enormous role in getting Christiana, her husband and sons out of Nazi Germany and later one of Christiana’s sons married a niece of Alice Astor.  

Christiana bought a house in the West Village on Commerce Street in NYC and spent 6 months of the year there and 6 months of the year in her home in Munich.  When she was in NYC, my friend Stepfan Hertlieg and I would act as “boys of the house” and help host her Sunday evening salons so I got to meet many fascinating titled and creative Germans.  Stepfan was the son a famous German movie star and a famous playwright.  I was Stefan’s best friend and held my own on the precarious edge of that group of socialites and intellectuals because I was a struggling artist.  
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Yoyo on May 12, 2006, 02:47:00 PM
I am not sure that Princess Nathalie Paley ever fully recovered from the loss of her tremendously talented younger brother, Volodya, who perished when he was 20 years old with the Grand Duchess Ella other memebers of the Romanoff family in Alapayevsk on the evening of July 17, 1918.    [/quote]

You mean her OLDER brother, Vladimir Pavlovich
 8-)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: frimousse on May 12, 2006, 04:00:02 PM
Quote
 

But Fimousse, I really can’t say that I see the connection with the Grand Duchess Marie.  


Thank you Griffh for your point of view. I didn't know that Hofmannstahl had such an interesting daughter.

As to Cocteau, he was older and a grown-up. He has been socializing with this elegant set of the twenties for a long time. He was already connected with Diaghilev and the artistic "salons" BEFORE WW I. He had already a reputation, a certain fame, and not only : he had a special feeling for connecting with great artists of the time: Picasso, Dali, etc... and Chanel of course. so I think that Nathalie was a "prey" for him.
Raimund, as you quote it, seemed rather a victim of his own infatuation to his idolized love , as Nathalie was a sort of victim of Cocteau's ambition.

As far as Gdss Marie is concerned, I can say that of course she was different in character from her half sister, but they both socialized in Paris in the same set at the beginning. Even if Nathalie was more naïve and younger than Marie.

Nathalie always tried to be an actress ( after being a model) and was helped by the men she matched with. She seduced them but not directly on purpose, with always a sort of ethereal flavour. These men, as I wrote in the previous post, had to be physically NOT involved. She "played" seduction but never "acted" seduction ( that's why perhaps she did'nt succeed in being a first rank actress). So I see a difference with Marie who didn't search for men's support and relied on her own forces. But at the end they both escaped love...

Nathalie never spoke of the past and wanted to forget anything connected with her Russian past. Of course she failed...Her silence was too eloquent. Her scars were so deep that they "speak" for herself. She was mostly raised in Paris and had a very happy and high spirited life with her parents in France. Their return to Russia was linked with a certain humiliation of being the children of Olga, divorced, mundane, and despised by less brilliant but more well-born ladies of the court. And secondly the atrocities of their escape and the assassinations of her father and brother were associated with her native country. All that she wanted to forget about.  

Gdss Marie, who was very proud of her Russian past, on the contrary was lost by the  disappearance of Imperial Russia, lost by the exile of her father, lost when being a mother in a foreign boring country and narrow minded Swedish court. She lacked maternal love, as she never knew her own mother and was incapable of being a mother herself.
She was more pragmatic than Nathalie and ran her own fashion business, but she soon got bored, and became a photographer, always running after an ideal of beauty as her half sister did with being an actress. They shared this quest for a an ideal world of elegance and art, because they had so much in common after the brutality ( so to speak...) they witnessed in their younger years.

Their lives were a mix of running after an ideal and escaping any links.

Sorry for my bad English and thank you again with the explanations of the international set you shared with us.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: griffh130 on May 12, 2006, 06:06:45 PM
First off, Frimousse (please forgive me for not spelling your name correctly), I must thank you for engaging me in a delightful and instructive exchange of ideas.  Often times in this forum there is this harshness that I can’t understand.  You have a very genteel manner and I am so grateful for it as it helps me to expand my understanding.  You also have a wonderful command of English, so much so, that I had no idea it was not your native tongue.  

Having said that, you know I believe that you are exactly right about Cocteau being well established by 1925 and having a motivation that was far more self-serving that Christiana’s brother.   In the book, “A Fashion for Extravagance,” which covers the history in the 1920’s and 1930’s of the great couture houses and designers, Sara Bowman and Michel Molinare (joint authors of the book) describe the most fashionable night spot in Paris, Le Boeuf Sur le Toit in the Rue Boissy d’Anglais which had been named after one of Jean Cocteau’s farces!!!  Your proof in point!!!  

Next, the authors quote the French poet Blaise Cendrars description of a New Year’s Eve gala at Le Boeuf:

“…On entering I knew who I would meet there.  There was a seaworthy dowager, the old Duchess d’Uzès, with her straight talk, her clay pipe, her bottle of Bordeaux.  There was Coco Chanel, a loner.  When the jazz warmed up, Jean Cocteau, like a jack-o’-lantern, his wick smelling of heresy, would perch himself behind the drums…There was Madame Leygues, with her famous necklace of I don’t remember how many, many meters of pearls, Misia Sert, young Auric, old Fague…”        

Frimousse, I accept your penetrating, and I believe, your very accurate understanding of Princess Nathalie Paley.  I feel that you are "spot on" with your analysis of Nathalie’s emotional character and motivations.  And the more I read about Cocteau, the more I agree with your assessment of him.  That is so interesting about how Nathalie lived in the now and did not look back.  I think that is the distinction between Nathalie and her half sister Marie is what I was trying to get at.  Did you know Marie was voted “Business Woman of the Year” in America in 1936?  I did not know that Marie abandoned her design house, Kitmar for photography.  Amazing, isn’t it.  I think that Marie, who had been raised to be a representative of a dynasty, was trying to find what it meant to be an individual, a challenge that Nathalie had already conquered because of the circumstances of her birth.  

By-the-by, Yoyo thank you for correcting me about Nathalie’s brother being older than she was.  

Oh Frimousse, I can’t find the book in my library that gives credit to Marie’s embroidery studio, Kitmar, but somewhere around here I have a history of fashion in which Kitmar is included for its contributions to the French fashion industry.  Of course Channel’s exclusive contract with Kitmar embroideries rather threw the Kitmar into the shade, and I suppose there are some mean-spirited people who would say that Marie got the contract only because her brother Dimitri was having an affair with Channel.  But I discount this bit of cruelty because when Marie got her divorce from the Swedish Prince Wilhelm of Södermanland on March 13, 1914 (made final by an edict issued by the Emperor Nicholas on July 15, 1914), Marie returned to Paris where she studied painting and then traveled to Italy and Greece.  That short sojourn between March and August of 1914 must have left an indelible impression on her creative spirit that emerged in exile.  Perhaps I am stretching it a bit here, but I think that she must have found a haven for her self expression in art during that time in the Spring of 1914 when she was held in such universal distain.  Even the liberal minded Princess Zinada Yusupov wrote to a friend just before Marie’s divorce was final, “Maria Pavlovna of Sweden is also a sad example of a disorderly life without any principles or foundation.”  (Oops, Zinada, I think that you must have lived to regret throwing that particular stone in your house of glass.)  I am getting a little edgy aren’t I?  Please forgive me.  

But, in my search for that history of French fashion in the nineteen twenties, I happened across one my favorite new books, “Beauty in Exile,” by the Russian edition of Vogue and Harpers Bazaar, Alexandre Vassiliev and there is a whole section on Princess Nathalie Paley!!!!!!!  I have got to take a break and read what Alexandre has to say.  I will share any new information I learn.  Toodle pip for now….griff
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: griffh130 on May 13, 2006, 03:53:27 PM
I really do apologize for the very flippant tone of that last email especially in regard to my cutting remarks about Princess Yusupov’s condemnation of the G.D. Marie.  I am no one’s judge, nor do I ever want to be.  I am also embarrassed that I misspelled the G.D. Marie’s embroidery studio, Kitmir.  However, I did find out where the name Kitmir came from.  The G.D. Marie was close friends in Paris with the former Russian Ambassador to the US, Bakhmetiev and his American wife.  He had three Pekinese dogs that he was devoted to and had named one of the Kitmir after a celebrated dog in Persian mythology.   The dogs name enchanted the G.D. Marie and she decided to use it for her Studio.  And just as a side note the Bakhmetiev estate was sold at auction in NYC not long ago, a costumer friend of mine bought all of Madame Bakhmetiev’s gowns.  I was invited to see some of them and remember seeing a beautiful pre-revolution blue and silver evening gown that was quite stunning even though Madame Bakhmetiev appeared to have a very mature figure.  

There is just a bit more to share about Nathalie that I have learned from reading “Beauty in Exile,” by the Russian editor of Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar, Alexandre Vassiliev.  Apparently Coco Chanel started the rage for Russian fashion models which caught on in the other couture houses in Paris, including Lucien Lelong’s fashion house and that is why he eventually hired Nathalie Paley.  Nathalie had apparently been drawn into the fashion world when her half-sister, G.D. Marie opened Kitmir and Nathalie also did some modeling for Yteb, a Russian fashion house that opened in Paris in 1922 by a former Lady-In-Waiting to the late Empress Alexandra, Baroness Elizaveta Hoyningen-Huene.  The Baroness introduced her brother George to Elka Chase, the editor of Vogue and he became their fashion photographer.  He took almost as many photos of Nathalie as Beaton did.)  Of course having her brother on the staff of Vogue was an advantage for the Baroness, who changed her name to Madame Yteb, but her elegant designs stood on their own and not only graced the pages of Vogue, but Harper’s Bazzar and the leading French fashion magazines.  

After Nathalie’s short time at Yteb she was hired by Lucien Lelong who eventually divorced his wife, Anne-Marie Audoy, on July 16, 1927 (a haunting date for any Romanoff) and Lucien married Nathalie the following month, on August 10, 1927.  The ceremony was held in the Cathedral of Alexander Nevsky on rue Daru.  The press called the marriage a misalliance and said that, “The crown is leveled with a pair of scissors.”  Nathalie was not only photographed by Cecil Beaton, and Baron Hoyningen-Huene, but also by other equally famous fashion photographers of the day including, Horst, Dorvin, and André Durst.  Princess Paley’s film career began in 1931 when she appeared in Cukor film.  ThenShe had attracted the attention of French film maker, Marcel L’Herbier who included her in his movie, “The Hawk,” that stared Charles Boyer.  Dressed in elegant gowns by Lelong, Nathalie played the part of a superficial, eccentric society beauty.  In 1934 Princess Paley appeared in Jean de Margen’s movie, Prince Jean.  Then she left for Hollywood in 1935 and made three films which I believe I have already mentioned in another post.  It was while she was appearing in her last American film, “Sylvia Scarlett,” that stared Cary Grant and Kate Hepburn that Nathalie formed her life long friendship with Kate.  She then returned to France in 1936 and made her last film with the same French film maker, Marcel L’Herbier, “New Men.”

Then in 1937 Princess Paley divorced Lucien and moved to NYC where her half-sister G.D. Marie was living and Nathalie started working for the NY fashion house of Mainbocher who was dressing, among others, the then notorious Duchess of Windsor.  That same year Princess Paley met and married John Chapman Wilson and spent her time between Wilson’s homes in NYC, Connecticut and Jamaica.  She was considered very unconventional.  Her nephew, Prince Mikhail Romanoff, described her bedroom in her Manhattan penthouse, the walls entirely covered in black satin and the windows tightly closed and draped in black curtains, as markedly eccentric.  I rather like it as it seemed sort of very Dorothy Draper to me.  But anyway Princess Paley returned to Europe just once, in September of 1951 to take part in a famous carnival thrown in Venice at the fabulous Palazzo de Labia by Charles de Beistegui.  When Chapman died in 1958, Nathalie withdrew from the world, not unlike Greta Garbo.  She refused to see even her sister and only spoke to her on the phone. Several months after a fall in her bath in 1982 in which she broke her hip, she died at Roosevelt Hospital in NYC.  As she lay dying, she whispered, “I want to die with dignity.”  She was buried next to her second husband in the Presbyterian cemetery in Trenton, New Jersey.  G.D. Marie wrote in her introduction to “Education of A Princess,” the most moving remarks, that to me sum up what all of the Romanov’s must have gone through emotionally.  She states:  “…My earliest memories are of surroundings so remote, so unlike the world of swirling traffic and shining towers that I see from these windows, as to be, by comparison, mediæval.  When I try to think back to that time, I am persuaded that in calendars there is no reality, that time itself has no meaning..."  I can't help thinking of Nathalie's black drapes
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Yoyo on June 30, 2006, 08:12:36 PM
I was reading Olga Paley's memoires today on this board, but they are not finished yet. Being a bit impatient and very interested in the Paley's, I was wondering if anyone can fill me in how the Paley's managed after the arrest and death of GD Paul and how they escaped from Russia.

Thanks
Yoyo
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on July 28, 2006, 11:56:30 AM
Glamourous Natalie :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/paley1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Janet_W. on July 28, 2006, 01:42:30 PM
In those days everyone was trying to look like Greta Garbo. I think Nathalie came closer to that look than most!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Lisa on July 28, 2006, 02:38:39 PM
I think she was considered as the French Garbo, a sort of rival...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on July 28, 2006, 03:50:21 PM
I think she pulled the whole look of the era off well--a real beauty. She looks much better than Irina did at the same time--she looked so gaunt.  :(
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Maximilian on October 21, 2006, 09:55:28 AM
It is look a very nice house, does anybody knows more..... what is the current status of the house, how Princess Paley sold the house and to who?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: RogerV on December 31, 2006, 10:19:41 PM
She did not mention it in her own memoirs, but when HSH Princess Olga Paley escaped from Russia after the execution of her husband, she was suffering from untreated breast cancer.  She underwent very serious surgery almost immediately after arriving in Finland, and was nearly a year in recovering.  The disease recurred and was the eventual cause of her death in 1929.  There does not seem to be an end to the tragedy that poor woman suffered!

This information was related by GD Marie Pavlova in her second book, A Princess In Exile.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 31, 2006, 11:36:47 PM
In my opinion Natalia is the beautiful one out of the sisters. Maria, Irina and even Princess Olga's daughters by her first marriage- Marianna and Olga. I have seen one photograph of those girls (Marianna and Olga), dated early 1906, when Natalia was an infant and I still say Natalia is the prettiest.  I have seen many of Maria and of Irina, but it rare to see the Paley children's half siblings on their mother's side in photos.
It like Grand Duke Michael Alexandrovich's wife Natalia's daughter Natalia by her first marriage, I only seen two photographs of her (both in childhood) and at least five or more of George, Michael's son.
Photographs of the Step-children of the Russian Grand Dukes are hard to find.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashdean on January 01, 2007, 05:53:37 AM
She did not mention it in her own memoirs, but when HSH Princess Olga Paley escaped from Russia after the execution of her husband, she was suffering from untreated breast cancer.  She underwent very serious surgery almost immediately after arriving in Finland, and was nearly a year in recovering.  The disease recurred and was the eventual cause of her death in 1929.  There does not seem to be an end to the tragedy that poor woman suffered!

This information was related by GD Marie Pavlova in her second book, A Princess In Exile.
In 1927..Olga already sickening again..went to London to try & recover the contents of her Tsarskoe selo home..which were being sold en bloc in Berlin by the Soviets....she behaved with immense dignity but lost the case..a hard blow both to her morale & financially....Life was very bitter at the end for this charming woman..
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on January 01, 2007, 04:46:56 PM
I had written this in the thread on Marie & Dmitri in the Ella section:

Later, when they were able to reconnect in Paris (they exchanged letters but Pss Paley had to undergo an operation for breast cancer and wasn't able to travel) they met up at the Ritz. 'And then she appeared. Her face was deathly pale and transparent, terribly aged and lined. She had grown smaller, she seemed to have shrivelled up...We fell on each other's neck, weeping and speechless. That afternoon we sat in silence; nothing that we could say would have expressed our feelings or brought us any comfort. After that I came back after day as long as her stay in Paris lasted....Her grief had completely changed her; she was broken, miserable creature..all the magnificent self-assurance, the composure of the past, had totally disappeared...she abandoned herself to her misery completely, passionately. Hidden beneath her outward worldliness there had always been something untamed, elemental about her nature which was now more appearent than ever....Afterwards, however, she slowly recovered her balance; her amazing vitality got the better of her moral depression and she began to again take an interest in life. She was forced to by her daughters' need for her, but her wounds never healed; they remained as fresh as on the first day....The attention she had to give these matters [the practical ones of finance and where they'd live] brought her out of her torpor, and eventually she proved herself to be a much sounder business woman than any of us....Once a year at Christmas she used to gather us all around a Christmas tree for a celebration in memory of the past...her energy was still astounding; her interests and those of her children she defended with persistence and tenacity, clinging to the few possessions which still remained to her....During the summer holidays we [she, Dmitri and Putiatin before their divorce] usually motored down to Biarritz...[and] spent two or three weeks by the ocean, sometimes in the company of my stepmother..and my two step-sisters...[Upon deciding to go to America] The leave I took from the Princess Paley was the most painful of all. She was my last tie with the older generation, and I knew that I should never see her again. [Her cancer had reoccured and was terminal] My courage failed me to go and say good-bye to her at Natasha's house in St Cloud...We met in Natasha's office...in Paris...Although she had longed for death for all these years, when her time came her fundamental strength fought desperately for life. Step by step, inch by inch, she relinquished her hold and only gave way at the last moment, when her animal energy had been completely exhausted.' [A Princess in Exile]

and in The Buchanans thread in the Servants and Friends section:

Sir George Buchanan was accused viciously in the press in 1923 by Princess Paley (widow of Grand Duke Paul) of abandoning the Romanovs--Ducky and Cyril as well as the Imperial Family--in their time of need. It played out for several weeks in the papers with Sir George writing several articles and letters giving his side of the story. Princess Paley accused him of promoting the Russian Revolution (along with Lloyd George) and of not delivering a telegram from George V to Nicholas II regarding asylum. This came as he was preparing his memoirs for publication and there were several long excerpts--many dealing with the Revolution and its aftermath--in the Times of London. Sir George said that Princess Paley was blessed with a vivid imagination and that her home had been a hotbed of gossip and that basically she was repeating baseless slurs of which she had no real knowledge. After the excerpts and then the book had been published, Princess Paley gave interviews to French newspapers 'disdaining...the offensive accusations...[that he made] against a widowed woman'. She said that he was 'obliged' to admit that the telegram wasn't given to Nicholas II and she reiterates that his meeting with members of the Provisional Government was tantamount to supporting the Emperor's enemies--seemingly ignoring the fact that, as Ambassador, he was obliged to once the British government recognized them. After this, Sir George refused to engage any further--despite the French papers wanting a rebuttal--and was content to say that his records and memoirs said all that needed to be said on the matter.

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: helenrappaport on March 10, 2007, 11:52:25 AM
Does anyone know what happened to Princess Paley's papers after her death - e.g. letters received from other family members such as her son Vladimir.?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashdean on March 11, 2007, 03:12:48 AM
Nathalie Paley & her second husband Jack Wilson became great friends of Cole Porter & his exqusite wife Linda..indeed it is said Cole & Jack were lovers...and their understanding but sad wives hit the bottle together in consolation !!! After Linda's death,as a memento  Cole gave Natalie a large double clip brooch & two bracelets. amongst Cartiers most famous examples of multicoloured jewelry known as "tutti-frutti"....They were later in the Esmerian collection in NYC and have been exhibited at various times...Cole also owned a portrait of Natalie by Tcheticlew (Sp)...It would be interesting to know of this pictures current location...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 11, 2007, 06:34:14 AM
Thank you GD Ella for writing that out. Is terribly sad.  :'(

The last few lines of Princess Paleys biography are very sad.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: scarlett_riviera on March 12, 2007, 07:23:32 AM
Yes, I do wonder what happened to Princess Paley's papers. From what I can recall, she left a few letters from Vladimir in her old home, or that it somehow ended up getting lost there during the whole chaos, and that she had asked her daughters to find some of his lost works/letters. Really sad. Does anyone know if Vladimir and Dmitri got along, or eventually became close? They were brothers after all. I read somewhere on this board that Vladimir wrote pamphlets against Alix- is that true? He seems like one of those really gentle, kind guys. But i don't know much about him, unfortunately. :\
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on March 12, 2007, 06:24:34 PM
He tends to be shadowy, yes. I have seen in The Romanovs LPT that photo book, some drawings that he did of the Alexandra/ Rasputin thing, that made me wonder what he truly thought. He seemed to be doing things like the infamous stuff that went around at the time about her and Rasputin- an interesting attitude for a member of the Imperial Family, albeit morgantic to have. :-\
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: scarlett_riviera on March 13, 2007, 04:27:31 AM
That's sad... were the pamphlets he created graphic in nature? I understand that there were a lot of those circulating in Russia. But from Princess Paley's memoirs it seemed that she and Vladimir got along quite well with Alexandra- at least, that's the impression I got. She even mentioned that Alexandra found Vladimir's poems delightful and "made him a present of a beautiful little ikon and a prayer-book." I guess they got tired of the way the country was being run. :(
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on March 13, 2007, 09:07:15 AM
I don't ever recall reading about pamphlets, but it does seem to fit with what I saw of his in that book. I will look it up. It just showed pictures and didn't give much info. It wasn't graphic stuff, just it seemed to be saying to me that he didn't like the current way the country was being run, that Alexandra was under Rasputin's influence, that is how it portrayed her, in my opinion. Other members of the Imperial Family felt this way, because he was discrediting the dynasty. Prince Vladimir seems to have shared those emotions, perhaps not a surprise, but I don't think other members of the Imperial family did drawings on it or more. Of course, Grand Duke Dmitri took it as far as murder.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on March 15, 2007, 12:52:26 AM
Yes, I do wonder what happened to Princess Paley's papers. From what I can recall, she left a few letters from Vladimir in her old home, or that it somehow ended up getting lost there during the whole chaos, and that she had asked her daughters to find some of his lost works/letters. Really sad. Does anyone know if Vladimir and Dmitri got along, or eventually became close? They were brothers after all. I read somewhere on this board that Vladimir wrote pamphlets against Alix- is that true? He seems like one of those really gentle, kind guys. But i don't know much about him, unfortunately. :\

It's most likely that the few papers Princess Paley had at the time of her death were given to her surviving daughters - although this is pure conjecture on my part.

Dmitri and Vladimir never really had a chance to get close - they never lived in the same house - and were always raised separately. Dmitri had affection for his father's second family and that's about as far as it could have gone.

Prince Paley did some drawings that painted Alexandra in a negative light. He was a complex person - I am sure he was nice to his immediate family, but he was a poet and artist and so had much to express in those dramatic times. There was a book about him published recently - it's available through Eurohistory.com
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on March 15, 2007, 09:34:34 AM
Thanks for that info! I agree about Prince Vladimir. I guess it wasn't a well known fact that he had these views or was it? Certainly, many other Romanovs would have supported him, had it been generally known, or if it was. It would be interesting if others in the Romanov family or the Russian court knew of this. I suppose it is just a coincidence that his half brother murdered Rasputin, and he had these views..
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Labuanbajo on June 10, 2007, 08:20:56 PM
I'm curious about the origin of their surname. Nicholas II granted it to Paul Alexandrovich's children but it doesn't sound very Russian.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on June 19, 2007, 12:58:21 AM
Paley refers to Grand Duke Paul, specifically, Paul. Don't know the ethnic origin of the name.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on July 21, 2007, 04:53:50 AM
The Grand Duc Paul and his wife Princess Paley about 1908 :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/1.jpg)

Grand Duc Paul, Princess Paley and their children Irene, Natalie and Vladimir :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/pal.jpg)

The family in 1916, in Tsarskoïe Selo shortly after their return of France :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/fam.jpg)

Prince Vladimir in 1916 who will die during the revolution under atrocious conditions :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/vl.jpg)

The Princess Paley in 1918, at the moment of the revolution. She tries near the bolcheviques to save her husband and her son and prepares the escape of her daughters in Finland :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/psspaley.jpg)

The wedding of Irene Paley and Théodore of Russia in Paris in 1923. From left to right : Dimitri, Xénia, Théodore, Irene, Alexandre, Princess Paley, Maria Pavlovna. Natalie misses.

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/weddingirina.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: allanraymond on July 21, 2007, 07:59:27 PM
Apparently, the name Paley came from one of the estates of Grand Duke Paul and also a surname of one of the ancestors of Olga.

I'm not certain if the original source of my information came from  Jorge F. Sáenz's book "A Poet Among the Romanovs - Prince Vladimir Paley 1897-1918" published by Eurohistory.com.

I have a copy stored in my attic library if confirmation is needed.

Allan Raymond

I'm curious about the origin of their surname. Nicholas II granted it to Paul Alexandrovich's children but it doesn't sound very Russian.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: dmitri on July 25, 2007, 01:53:03 AM
I always found the murders of Grand Duke Paul and his son Prince Vladimir Paley extremely sad. Unlike Nicholas II and his family, Grand Duke Paul was a prisoner in the St.Peter and Paul Fortress. That must have been truly awful. He was taken out and shot in the bitter cold of winter in 1919 with other relatives. As for the son, I think that was particularly awful as from what you can read it took a long time for the victims to die down that mineshaft. I guess the rest of Alexander III's brothers, with the exeption of Grand Duke Serge were rather luckier as they were not murdered. Mind you Paul had a much longer life than his older brother, Nicholas who was heir before Alexander.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on July 25, 2007, 09:23:47 AM
I always found it a sad irony that Paul (and Michael for that matter) should have been allowed back into Russia to live at the worst time. Had their exile been complete (like 'Miche-Miche' in England) they would've survived. At the time it probably seemed like a great gift to be allowed to resume their life in their homeland.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on July 25, 2007, 04:21:40 PM
I always found it a sad irony that Paul (and Michael for that matter) should have been allowed back into Russia to live at the worst time. Had their exile been complete (like 'Miche-Miche' in England) they would've survived. At the time it probably seemed like a great gift to be allowed to resume their life in their homeland.

This goes right along with the money issues faced by the surviving Romanovs in exile - they were so patriotic that they withdrew most or all of their foreign bank accounts. All at the Tsar's command, millions of dollars from abroad was brought back to Russia, where scarcely months later, it was stolen by the Bolsheviks. (And now their descendants are supposed to roll over and play dead and not try to recover their stolen property.)

I always felt particularly bad about Volodia Paley - he was actually born while his mother was married to her first husband, Piskeltors, and so originally was (at least legally) not considered GD Paul's son - and he was never a dynast. So, he was a brilliant young poet murdered because his biological father made sure that he was legally made his son - and because that father was a grand duke.

And, as another poster said, how terribly sad that the two returning grand dukes lost their lives.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 28, 2008, 02:35:12 PM
Hello, I wanted to know if there is a site devoted to Prince Vladimir Paley, I find that 21 years he has shown courage and determination in misfortune, I really admire him for he has done, Learn not to have waived his father and sn talent for poetry.

Alex
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 31, 2008, 08:51:47 AM
Hello,
A french Poem of Prince Vladimir Paley:

Elle disait:
Je veux par les
sentiers ombrageux m'en aller
 pour ne voir et n'aimer personne...
 Me sentir delivré enfin
 et n'entendre dans le lointain
que la vieille cloche qui sonne..."

Agonie, Saint-Pétersbourg, novembre 1913
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 31, 2008, 12:05:46 PM
The rest of the poem:

Fuyant tes sournoises revanches
"je veux me perdre dans les bois
et tu n me retiendra pas ...
tu me quitteras à l'orée
Contant avec l'adorée
élloigné le bruit de ses pas."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 12, 2008, 08:51:19 AM
Another  french poem by Prince Paley:

C’etait le bon temps de l’Empire!
Helas! tout va de mal en pire:
Ou sent mes seize ans d’autre fois,
Que j’eus sous Napoleon Trois?
La Republique m’a fait don
D’un rhumatisme et d’un baton...

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 14, 2008, 09:59:49 AM
The cover of a book on Vladimir Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Photo/07031.jpg

Photo olga (already reported on the site):
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Photo/c0696cb464c6b4d1982.jpg
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on April 14, 2008, 11:19:50 AM
Wonderful pics Nadya and Alexandre64, thanks to you !!!

But, any photo of the elder sister of Natalie, Irene ?

I can't seem to find pictures of Irene anywhere. Which is surprising since she married her cousin Feodor Alexandrovich.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 15, 2008, 06:33:00 AM
Hello,
I cheat by putting one of the poems of Vladimir Paley, here is the true version:

Elle disait:
Je veux par les
sentiers ombrageux m'en aller
 pour ne voir et n'aimer personne...
 Me sentir delivré enfin
 et n'entendre dans le lointain
que la vieille cloche qui sonne..."

Fuyant tes sournoises revanches
"je veux me perdre dans les branches
et tu n me retiendra pas ...
tu me quitteras à l'orée
Ecoutant avec l'adorée
S'élloigné le bruit de ses pas."

With all apologies!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 15, 2008, 06:42:34 AM
And another poem:

Je murmure à la flamme
Les chagrins de mon âme
Tout mes petits secrets
L'heure sans violence
Fait monter du silence
des murmures discrets ...
         -----
Pourtant je suis heureuse
Quand douillette et frileuse
je m'assoie prés du feu
Mais je sens quelque chose
Dont je ne sais la cause
et qui me trouble un peu
         -----
Malgré moi ma pensée
S'enfuie comme enlacée
Par un vague désir
Vers un vague plaisir ...
Je suis toute songeuse ...
Si j'étais-amoureuse ? ..
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 19, 2008, 08:35:00 AM
Olga P., Alexander von Pistolkors, Marianne von P., Paul, Irene and Nathalie, Vladimir and Olga von Pistolkors in Biarritz
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-166755.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-166873.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 19, 2008, 08:40:59 AM
Pictures from the issuance "Memoire d'éxil" by  Frederic Mitterand:

Princess Irene:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-171392.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170646.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170437.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170120.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170120.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170021.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-169926.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-169809.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-169512.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 19, 2008, 08:48:31 AM
Irene and Nathalie at Biarritz:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-167170.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-167277.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on April 19, 2008, 09:38:34 AM
Amazing photos!! Thanks so much for sharing!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 19, 2008, 09:57:43 AM
Vladimir:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-171246.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-171062.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170988.png

Paul and Irene:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-170543.png

Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-169720.png

Princess Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-168755.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-167973.png

Irene, Princess Paley and Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-168170.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 19, 2008, 10:09:08 AM
Olga Paley and Pau, at Biarritz:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-166637.png

Lers coffins of Elizabeth and Vladimir:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-163372.png

Drawing and Vladimir poem:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-155660.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-155779.png

Irene and Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-159835.png

Vladimir(In the background School Alapaevsk):
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-162436.png

Vladimir:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-162141.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-161805.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-155396.png

Vladimir uniformed Corp. of-the-pages:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-156011.png

Vladimir and his guardian?:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-155518.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on April 19, 2008, 04:12:37 PM
AWESOME PICTURES! there fabulous!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 02:47:04 AM
Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-158736.png

Irene and Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-158507.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-156236.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-156117.png

Paul:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-157307.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-157200.png

Olga, and in the background Petrograd:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-159111.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 03:36:12 AM
Irene and Nathalie, children:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-107768.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-106935.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-106688.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-106233.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-105363.png

Irene:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-107486.png

Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-107599.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-107062.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 07:53:53 AM
Olga (background forest):
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-155186.png

Paul, Irene and Paul:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-107943.png

Olga:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-107392.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-106458.png

Paul:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-106573.png

Paul and Olga:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-104951.png

The house of Paris, today:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-105978.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 08:04:16 AM
Vladimir, Irene and Nathalie, children:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-106134.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-105363.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-105127.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 08:10:15 AM
Olga, Irene or Nathalie, and Vladimir;
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-105014.png

Young Volodia:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-104496.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on April 20, 2008, 10:02:45 AM
Beautiful photos and very great work, Alexandre64 !!!

With these few images, we can see how Irene is as beautiful as her sister Natalie.

Also numerous pictures on the Youssoupov in this documentary.

Many thanks !!!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 10:26:30 AM
KarlandZita, I am currently working on the documentary speaking Youssoupov.

But I still have some photos on the family Paley.

Alex
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 20, 2008, 10:33:18 AM
Olga and Volodia:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-104365.png

Paul:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-103630.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-96218.png

Olga:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-103818.png

Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-102679.png

Irene:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-102549.png

Vladimir:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-101649.png

and

The title of the chapter on Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-276321.png

Alex
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on April 20, 2008, 05:11:19 PM
Wonderful pictures Alexandre! Thank you so much for sharing!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on April 21, 2008, 06:16:19 AM
Alexandre, as always your photographs are just incredible. Thank you for sharing them with the rest of us. :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 21, 2008, 06:27:04 AM
Nadya Arapov,
Thank you for the compliment, but I think it is normal to share pictures and information.

Alex
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 21, 2008, 10:26:56 AM
I would like to know if anyone knows, the rank of Prince Paley, in the "Memory" of Princess Paley, she said he began with Hussard be the Emperor, but after ...

Alex
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 22, 2008, 02:34:32 PM
Olga Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-42396.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-42298.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 25, 2008, 03:08:41 PM
Burial of Princess Olga Paley, November 1929:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-205334.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-205233.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-205009.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 27, 2008, 04:29:53 AM
At a party pure substance of Russian aid:

Princess Paley and Sandro:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-43587.png

Princess Paley and Dimitri:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-44164.png

Irene, Princess Paley and Sandro:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-44516.png

Theodor, Princess Paley, Irene and Sandro:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-44706.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 27, 2008, 11:11:48 AM
Princess Paley and Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-255735.png

Princess Paley and Lucien Lelong:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-255834.png

Princess Paley, Nathalie and Lucien Lelong:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-255622.png



Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashdean on April 27, 2008, 11:13:44 AM
Thanks for the great pics...Obviously Olga had not had to sell all the gems from the one case she had been able to send out of Russia ahead of her own flight..No doubt the sale of the house in the Parc au Prince  (to become a school..the Cours dupanloup)more than provided for her comfort in exile.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on April 27, 2008, 11:58:06 AM
Very nice pixs :)

The one with Dmitri- Also on the left, the lady is Princess Nicholas of Greece, Grand Duchess Helen!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on April 27, 2008, 12:49:59 PM
The one with Dmitri- Also on the left, the lady is Princess Nicholas of Greece, Grand Duchess Helen!

Thank you for confirming that Mandie ;-) I thought it was her, but wasn't positive.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 27, 2008, 01:56:15 PM
The School of Alapaevsk:
Outside:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-246272.png

Inside:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-246625.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-246448.png

The Marquess of Milford Haven, which identify the body of Elizabeth and Vladimir at Beijing:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-246930.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 27, 2008, 02:02:37 PM
The wedding of Irene and Theodor, Paris, Church of St. Alexander Nevski:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-253031.png

Irene, Theodor and Xenia:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-252764.png

Princess Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-252668.png

Irene and Theodor:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-252432.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-252534.png

Irene leaving car with Dimitri:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-252246.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-252351.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 27, 2008, 02:11:13 PM
Princess Olga Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-42810.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-253574.png

Princess Irene and Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-251215.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 28, 2008, 07:02:50 AM
Paley and Vladimirovitch:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vladandpaleysbefore1909-1.jpg)

Paul:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-244483.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nadya_Arapov on April 28, 2008, 11:47:08 AM
From the picture above (another wonderful find Alexandre!).

Sitting left to right: Olga Paley holding Nathalie, Irina Paley, Victoria Melita, Vladimir Paley, Maria Pavlovna "Miechen", GD Vladimir.

I only recognize two men in the back row. GD Paul is right at the center and to Paul's right is GD Kirill.

Does anyone know if the others are Olga's older children? Or are they members of GD Vladimir's suite?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 28, 2008, 02:01:17 PM
I think it is two brothers from Kyrill.

Alexandre
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on April 29, 2008, 12:30:55 AM
I think it is two brothers from Kyrill.

Alexandre

No, they are not brothers of GD Kyrill. Somewhere I saw a description to that photo. I'll check this.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 30, 2008, 01:05:48 PM
Poem and Vladimir:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-245014.png

Vladimir, Irene and Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-243396-1.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 15, 2008, 03:13:55 PM
Olga Paley:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-38115.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-46530.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-46686.png

Paul:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-41078.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 19, 2008, 02:36:46 AM
Olga and Nathalie:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-51282.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-49611.png

Olga and Lucien Lelong:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-51198.png

Olga, Nathalie and Lucien L.:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-49513.png

The cover of the book by Jose F. Saenz: "A poet among the Romanovs":
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/51Q1KCP3VEL_SS500_1.jpg


Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Norbert on May 19, 2008, 09:13:09 AM
Irina's daughter Irene ( madame Soulas)...is she styled Pss Romanoff  since her divorce or does she see herself as the daughter of de Monbrison. I see the Count died at Chateau de St Roch. Was this his estate and did it pass to Irina and her daughter?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 20, 2008, 02:43:28 AM
French Version of "Sonnet to my mother" Vladimir Paley, published in "Memoirs of Russia" of Princess Paley:

                            Sonnet à ma Mère.
Tandis que, faible, je dormais dans le nid familial,
Sous ton aile maternelle mes rêves se blotissaient.
C'est toi qui les berças et quand sonna mon heure
Les roses de mes rêveries fleurirent somptueusement...
Rien ne menaçait le chemin de ma vie,
Aucune ombre n'obscurcissait mon jeune horizon.
Les larmes que je versais, c'étaient encore tes larmes.
De mes pensées, de mes rêves, tu étais l'idéal!
Tu soufflas en moi la force, la foi, l'espérance,
Tu habillas mon âme de vêtements brillant,
Tu tremblais pour moi comme je tremble à présent.
Que la Rime m'a ouvert largement la porte,
C'est toi et non pas moi que les archanges frôlèrent.
Mes vers ce sont tes vers, Ils sont revenus vers toi

Vladimir P. Paley.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 22, 2008, 03:01:50 AM
Vladimir in the uniformed corps of pages of ST Petersburg:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Vladimir1.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Vladimir.jpg
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 24, 2008, 02:41:17 AM
Vladimir:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Vladimir3.jpg
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Vladimir2.jpg
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 25, 2008, 05:57:30 AM

Hello,
in this picture, which I have already put on the forum, a retail questioned me, the shadow that this left the prince, is it possible that this is a shadow of Elisabeth, I pause to this question Because of the veil that covered the Grand Duchess?

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-162141.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on May 26, 2008, 11:57:51 AM
While it's possible it was Grand Duchess Elizabeth, I think it's also possible it was any number of women acquainted with the Paley family who worked as nurses during the war. (I am guessing it was during the war because of VP's apparent age in the photo.). It could be his sister Maria Pavlona, it could be one of his cousins (Tatiana or Olga) or any number of other women.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 26, 2008, 12:04:57 PM
Lisa,

Thank you for your answer, it's true that I had not thought that several women close to Paley work in hospitals.

Alex
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 02, 2008, 08:06:40 AM
Villa leased by the Grand Duke Paul, in Biarritz:
<a href="http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-199250.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-199250.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 
Irene, Theodor, Lucien L. and Nathalie, Paris:
<a href="http://s273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/?action=view&current=vlcsnap-200810.png" target="_blank"><img src="http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-200810.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 03, 2008, 02:38:06 AM
Nathalie, top model and actress:
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-202416.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-202307.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-202172.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-208715.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-208567.png

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-202575.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-209222.png
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-208981.png
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 05, 2008, 02:42:58 AM
Prince Vladimir poem written Viatka in 1918, appeared in "Memories of Russia" La Princesse Paley:
French version and English version:
French:
Viatka

"Nuit tranquille,
Mais dont le silence est sinistre,
Le prisonnier ne dort pas.

Les souvenirs d'un passé lointain,
D'un passé chéri,
Envahissent son âme,
Tandis que, sous sa fenêtre, un geôlier veille.
C'est un ennemi féroce, un letton...

Les proches, les aimés sont lugubrement loin,
Tandis que l'ennemi est lugubrement près..."

English:
Viatka

"Night quiet,
But whose silence is sinister,
The prisoner does not sleep.

The memories of a distant past,
From a cherished past,
Envahissent his soul,
While under his window, a jailer day.
It is a fierce enemy, a Latvian ...

The relatives, loved ones are far lugubrement,
While the enemy is near lugubrement ..."

Alex.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 16, 2008, 02:59:40 AM
A French version of "memorie of Russia":
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Souvenirspaley.jpg
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: alexia on June 16, 2008, 03:01:26 PM
Re the comment on Natalie Paley having a short career in Hollywood. The star of Sylvia Scarlett-Katherine Hepburn and her were watching a public showing of the film, Natalie said to Hepburn "Why aren't they (the audience) laughing" (film supposed to be a comedy) Hepburn to Natalie -"They don't find it funny" The film was a huge flop!

Alexia
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: RogerV on June 22, 2008, 02:31:22 PM
Do you think that if Nicholas II had not welcomed them back to Russia and the Paley family remained in exile, that Vladimir, Irina, and Natalie would have been known as Count or Countess Hohenfelsen?


Well, I just happened to come across this entry on www.thepeerage.com:

Vladimir Pavlovich Hohenfelsen, Count Hohenfelsen was born on 9 January 1897 at Paris, France.1 He was also reported to have been born on 9 January 1897 at St. Petersburg, Russia. He was the son of Pavel Aleksandrovich Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia and Olga Valerianovna Karnovich. He died on 17 July 1918 at age 21 executed by the Bolsheviks by being thrown down a mineshaft.1
Vladimir Pavlovich Hohenfelsen, Count Hohenfelsen gained the title of Count Hohenfelsen.1 He was created Prince Vladimir Paley in 1904.


So there's at least ONE site which maintains that Vladimir/Volodia held the title of Count Hohenfelsen.  The same page lists his sisters without the surname Hohenfelsen.  Is it possible that Grand Duke Pavel/Paul requested a title for his wife, as well as his son?  It actually makes sense, as Volodia's contemporaries would most likely have held titles of nobility or royalty of some kind.  His sisters would have had the chance to gain titles by marriage, but it doesn't work that way for men. 

The reference to Volodia becoming Prince Vladimir Paley in 1904 has to wrong.  Possibly a typograpical error, and should read 1914?   EDIT:  I just realized it should probably read "after 1904."

This is a link to the entire page:   http://www.thepeerage.com/p10200.htm#i101999   Scroll down about halfway to find the entry.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on June 25, 2008, 01:04:11 AM
Do you think that if Nicholas II had not welcomed them back to Russia and the Paley family remained in exile, that Vladimir, Irina, and Natalie would have been known as Count or Countess Hohenfelsen?


Well, I just happened to come across this entry on www.thepeerage.com:

Vladimir Pavlovich Hohenfelsen, Count Hohenfelsen was born on 9 January 1897 at Paris, France.1 He was also reported to have been born on 9 January 1897 at St. Petersburg, Russia. He was the son of Pavel Aleksandrovich Romanov, Grand Duke of Russia and Olga Valerianovna Karnovich. He died on 17 July 1918 at age 21 executed by the Bolsheviks by being thrown down a mineshaft.1
Vladimir Pavlovich Hohenfelsen, Count Hohenfelsen gained the title of Count Hohenfelsen.1 He was created Prince Vladimir Paley in 1904.


So there's at least ONE site which maintains that Vladimir/Volodia held the title of Count Hohenfelsen.  The same page lists his sisters without the surname Hohenfelsen.  Is it possible that Grand Duke Pavel/Paul requested a title for his wife, as well as his son?  It actually makes sense, as Volodia's contemporaries would most likely have held titles of nobility or royalty of some kind.  His sisters would have had the chance to gain titles by marriage, but it doesn't work that way for men. 

The reference to Volodia becoming Prince Vladimir Paley in 1904 has to wrong.  Possibly a typograpical error, and should read 1914?   EDIT:  I just realized it should probably read "after 1904."

This is a link to the entire page:   http://www.thepeerage.com/p10200.htm#i101999   Scroll down about halfway to find the entry.

Olga Valerianova was created Princess Paley in 1915 after her return to Russia with her husband and children in WWI. She was warmly welcomed by the Emperor and his family. As a result of being fully accepted back into the dynasty and receipt of the title, their son Vladimir was known thereafter as Prince Vladimir Paley, and their daughters as Princess Irene (or Natalie) Paley.

Prior to their return to Russia, Olga V used the style Countess Hohenfelsen from 1904, which had been granted to her by the Regent of Bavaria. Her children were known as Count/(ess) (First Name) Hohenfelsen. This style  was in use from 1904 until they were designated Paleys. However, Hohenfelsen was not a surname, it was part of their style. And, a style is not the same thing as a title. After they were designated Paleys, they no longer used the Hohenfelsen style.

From the time of her marriage to Grand Duke Paul in 1902 until 1904, Olga V and Vladimir were in a kind of legal name limbo. Olga V married a man without a surname, and so she likely had to use the name from her first marriage, Olga von Piskeltors, and their son was probably still known by his birth name, Vladimir Ericovich von Piskeltors.

For someone who was only alive 21 years, Prince Paley had an amazing number of names. He began his life as legally the son of his mother's first husband, even though his actual father was known to be Grand Duke Paul.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on June 28, 2008, 02:53:11 AM
Portrait of Princess Paley:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-43273.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on July 06, 2008, 04:19:07 AM

Poem, in french, appeared on the book by Jorge Saenz and will link:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Pavlovitch_Paley

"A mes petites soeurs

Pendant des mois, des ans et des siècles entiers,

Tandis qu’au fond du ciel, Anges, vous sanglotiez,

La femme a pu se plaindre et l’homme a pu maudire –

Mais les petits enfants n’ont cessé de sourire!"

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on July 08, 2008, 03:45:45 AM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-77315.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-77394.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on July 12, 2008, 08:24:21 AM
Paul Alexandrovitch:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Paul.jpg)

Olga Paley, in 1914:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/OlgaPaley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on July 12, 2008, 10:25:09 AM
Nice!  :D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Paul on July 13, 2008, 11:01:02 AM
Natalia Paley was, indeed, stunning!

Mixing Romanov w/ commoner blood seemed to produce some remarkable looking women, if Princess Paley, Countess de Torby, and Princess Iskander are any indication.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on July 16, 2008, 03:15:43 AM
Poem of Prince Paley,French version (translated by me) and Spanish version (translated by Jorge Saenz):

Soeurs de Charité

Soeurs de Charité, les anges sur terre,
bon et gentils, un peu triste,
Vous versé vos  baume sur les cœurs des patients,
vous, amis lumineux, cadeau de Dieu.

Pour vous - bénédictions, les sœurs de l'âme fatiguée,
fleur rose, sur le champ de bataille,
et le rayonnement des croix, la luminosité - rubis brillant,
Les prières tranquille prisent sur  les blessures ...

Crimée. Juin 1915.

------
HERMANAS DE LA CARIDAD

Hermanas de la caridad, ángeles terrenos,
buenas y gentiles, un poco tristes,
vosotras, bálsamo derramado sobre los corazones pacientes,
vosotras, amigas luminosas, regalo de Dios.

A vosotras – bendiciones, hermanas de las almas cansadas,
rosas florecidas, allí, en el campo de batalla,
y en la radiantez de las cruces, el brillo – brillo rubí,
las plegarias tranquilamente tomadas de las heridas...

Crimea. Junio de 1915.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on July 28, 2008, 08:12:09 AM
Princess Paley, in 1923:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/OlgaPaley1.jpg)

Prince Vladimir, 19 years:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/WladimirPaley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on August 26, 2008, 02:41:31 AM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-78400.png)

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-77201.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 07, 2008, 07:42:47 AM
Grand Duke Paul:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-41201.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 10, 2008, 10:23:11 PM
Great Pics!

Princess Fyodore of Russia (nee Irina Paley)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/Russia/Mikhailovichi/rene.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 11, 2008, 08:47:57 AM
beautiful picture!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 12, 2008, 07:26:50 AM
Hello,
In his memoirs, Princess Paley says that his son, Alexandre, and daughter, Olga, were exiles, but it does not say what came to her second daughter, Marianne, after his departure, is what someone know what is arriving?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: danwillis on September 12, 2008, 08:35:58 AM
The younger Paley daughter, Natalia (Marianne was a nickname), lived in the theatre world, mostly in New York City. She performed herself a few times in forgettable instances. Both of her husbands were theatre folks, one a designer the other a producer, and both were rumored to be gay. There were also rumors about her own sexuality.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 12, 2008, 09:04:09 AM
In fact, I talk about the girl that Princess Paley, had with her first husband, Marianne Pistolkors therefore, by his marriage Countess Zarnékau
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 12, 2008, 11:53:25 PM
Irina at her wedding in 1923 with Theodor Alexandrovich.
From l. to r.: Dmitri Pavlovich, Xenia, Theodor Alexandrovich, Irina Pavlovna, Alexander Mikhailovich, Olga Paley and Maria Pavlovna.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/1923a.jpg)

Who is the little boy on the floor?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 13, 2008, 12:49:09 PM


------
HERMANAS DE LA CARIDAD

Hermanas de la caridad, ángeles terrenos,
buenas y gentiles, un poco tristes,
vosotras, bálsamo derramado sobre los corazones pacientes,
vosotras, amigas luminosas, regalo de Dios.

A vosotras – bendiciones, hermanas de las almas cansadas,
rosas florecidas, allí, en el campo de batalla,
y en la radiantez de las cruces, el brillo – brillo rubí,
las plegarias tranquilamente tomadas de las heridas...

Crimea. Junio de 1915.


This is beautiful. Thanks so much for posting the Spanish version.! And of course, thanks for the lovely pictures!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 14, 2008, 02:14:34 AM
Thank you, Katenka Fyodorovna
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on September 16, 2008, 12:41:11 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/Gowns/OlgaValerianovnaKarnovitchlaterknow.jpg)
Olga Paley with her first husband. I believe this was an egagement picture.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 16, 2008, 01:17:04 PM
Rare and beautiful photo!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 16, 2008, 03:48:31 PM
OOH, what Beautiful image of Princess Irene!!! Where, then, but did you found?

I got it "Beauty in Exile" by Alexander Vassiliev.  Its about Russian noble women & men in the fashion business (mostly in Paris). Theres pictures of Tsar Nicholas II, Grand Duchess Vladimir, Tsarina Alexandra with her two oldest daughters, Princess Marina Petrovna and many other noble ladies and actresses. there are stories of Grand Duchess Maria Pavelovna, Prince Gabriel's wife Antonina Nesterovskaya, Irina and Felix Yussupov, and Natalie Paley and others.. that photo was in Natalie's article, it very tiny, i try my best to get it good, but that was all i could master. glad you like it.  :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 18, 2008, 03:40:36 AM
Princess Paley Cartier Tiara, 1911:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Romanov%20Jewel/p.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 20, 2008, 06:23:36 AM
Paul:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Paul1.jpg)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on September 20, 2008, 09:44:06 AM
Natalie Paley :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/th_natapaley.jpg) (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/natapaley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 22, 2008, 02:21:35 AM
Hello,
What happened to the first husband of Princess Paley after divorce and after the revolution?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 23, 2008, 03:03:42 AM
Excerpt of "A Princess in exile" or Maria P. about his half brother Vladimir (in French, maybe someone could translate it into English):
"(durant les repas) Volodia, mon demi-frére, faisait beaucoup de bruit et posait des questions innombrables.
Inutile de prétendre causer en sa présence et inutile également d'essayer de lui imposer le silence.

Lorsqu'on approchait de Noël, Volodia écrivait des pièces qui faisait jouer à ses petites soeurs.
On improviser une scéne dans le grand salon avec les paravents de la nursery. On se servait de couvertures et de draps en guise de rideaux et de tentures.
La construction compliquée s'effondrait généralement au moment capital et tombait sur la tête des acteurs.
Pendants bien des jours consécutif , Volodia faisait répéter ses soeurs qui n'était guére encore que des bébés.

Ce souvenir tourna mes pensées vers Volodia, mon jeune demi-frére si bien doué, et qui, lui aussi, n'était plus...
Je me dirigeai vers sa chambre. Voila son bureau tailladé de coups de canif et maculé de taches d'encre.
Des dessins aux crayon et d'enfantines caricatures étaient épinglés aux murs, ses livres préférés et sa musique couvraient les étagéres.
J'ouvris même un des placards où restaient encore accrochés ses costumes devenus trop petits..."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on September 23, 2008, 03:15:24 AM
Hello,
What happened to the first husband of Princess Paley after divorce and after the revolution?

Not much info. Erich von Pistolkors died in Riga (Latvia) in 1935.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 23, 2008, 03:57:23 AM
Thank you for this information.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 28, 2008, 07:08:21 AM
Nathalie an Lucien Lelong:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-32175.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-32250.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on September 29, 2008, 08:29:34 AM
Paul and Olga :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/1-1.jpg)

Olga Paley :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/psspal.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 30, 2008, 02:06:54 AM
Wedding Nathalie and Lucien Lelong:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-31135.png)

Irene, Sandro and Nikita:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-31337.png)

Olga Paley:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-31236.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-31416.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on September 30, 2008, 02:08:17 AM
Irene and Michel:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-31627.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie%20and%20Lucien/vlcsnap-31526.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on September 30, 2008, 03:30:11 PM
Olga and her daughters by Pavel are beautiful, expt that Irene always (after 1918) looks so grumpy.

Princess Olga Paley is my favorite Morganatic Romanov member. my less favorite was Countess Brasova (Natalia Sheremetyeva), she was an odd one, sided with enemies of Nicholas and Alexandra, but enjoying her status as a wife of a high ranking Grand Duke. and the mean treatment of her daughter Natalia Mamontova "Tata" and the favoritism of her son Count George Brasov. I'm kind of glad that Misha treated Tata like his own, which was sweet.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 02, 2008, 10:02:14 AM
It is true that even in his memoirs, Princess Paley made no remark against Nicolas and Alexandra, one can feel how Princess loved his sovereign. And I think that even Nicolas and Alexandra preferred Princess Paley to Contesse Brasova.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on October 04, 2008, 09:09:12 AM
Natalie Paley posing as model for her husband Lucien Lelong :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/npllg.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 06, 2008, 07:01:23 AM
Irene and Dimitri:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-212735.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 08, 2008, 06:01:14 AM
I just found on the Internet is Prince Paley poem, I managed (through a translator Internet) to translate into French, speaking Alexis, but the translation is not perfect:

ЦАРЕВИЧУ
Тебе, вдохновенный царевич,
Божественной позе твоей,
Склонясь пред тобой на колени,
Играю на лире своей.
Если ищешь ты в мире добра,
Если хочешь ты ласки народной,
Чтоб народ полюбил бы тебя
И гордился бы вечно тобою.
Не забудь, о любимый мой князь,
Ты так ласков и кроток душою,
Приласкать наш унылый народ,
Заглянуть ему в душу с любовью.

-------
Tsarevich
Vous, inspiré Tsarevich,
Divine votre posture,
Avant de s'incliner aux genoux,
Jouant sur son Lira.
Si vous regardez le monde du bien,
Si vous voulez de l'amour populaire,
Que les gens vous aiment
Et toujours être fiers de vous.
Ne pas oublier mon favori prince,
Vous êtes si laskov âme et la douceur,
Snuggle terne de notre peuple,
Rechercher dans le coeur avec l'amour.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 08, 2008, 09:33:58 AM
A little Pavel Alexandrovich

(http://i38.tinypic.com/e6f913.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on October 11, 2008, 04:01:08 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/nlpy.jpg)
Natalie Paley as model of the Twenties
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on October 12, 2008, 10:21:24 AM
Irene and Dimitri:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-212735.png)

Moving image of two nostalgic for Imperial Russia.

But are there any photos of Irene with her son Michel ?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on October 12, 2008, 10:37:02 AM


But are there any photos of Irene with her son Michel ?

I think the photo had been posted before :

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/_-3.jpg)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on October 12, 2008, 10:51:13 AM
OHH ! Beautiful, thank you very much, Svetabel !

It's so rare to see Princess Irene with her little kid Michel...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 12, 2008, 11:43:47 AM
Taken at the same time:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-296215.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-296138.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 12, 2008, 03:05:13 PM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-298982.png)

Irene and Theodor family:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-297143.png)

Irene and Irina:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/vlcsnap-296989.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 13, 2008, 08:11:43 AM
Irene and Michel:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-297570.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-296899.png)
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-296685.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 17, 2008, 01:59:48 AM
Irene and Theodor:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-295935.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 17, 2008, 03:38:03 PM
Very Nice photos!! :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on October 18, 2008, 05:13:18 AM
Yes, indeed beautiful, new and rare for me; ¨ Those of Irene and little Michel are moving ; Thank you Alexandre 64 ! Do they always come from the documentary of Frederic Mitterrand " Memory of exile "?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 18, 2008, 06:43:36 AM
yes, they always come from "Memory of exile"
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Maximilian on October 19, 2008, 08:57:35 AM
Can someone explain me the difference of a Style and a noble title? I don't understand why the title of countess Hohenfelesn was a merely style and not a noble title granted by a sovereign king to the morganatic wife of Grand Duke Paul.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 19, 2008, 03:53:09 PM
Can someone explain me the difference of a Style and a noble title? I don't understand why the title of countess Hohenfelesn was a merely style and not a noble title granted by a sovereign king to the morganatic wife of Grand Duke Paul.

I'll give it a go.

Titles of nobility have a long and complex history, but, to simplify, they were given to members of the elite class in countries that had them to confer status, responsibility, or both. Generally, with notable exceptions, these titles were then inheritable by one's legitimate offspring in perpetuity. In some countries, such as Germany, all legitimate descendants are eligible to use the title, while in others, such as the UK, only one person is, for example, Duke of Norfolk.

Styles are how a member of the nobility or royal family are addressed. A grand duke of Russia's style was HIH, and the direct address was "Your Imperial Highness".

To put all of this on a more 21st century level, my title at work is Controller. But, no one would address me as "Controller Davidson" or "Controller Lisa", my "style" would be "Mrs. Davidson" or "Lisa" - that's what I am called.

Here is what I wrote on Reply #122 of the Paleys thread on this forum regarding Paul's second wife:

I think there is some confusion between titles and styles. The reason Paul's second wife needed a style - a way of being addressed - is that her husband's Imperial name was not available to her due to the difference in their ranks. She could be neither HIH The Grand Duchess Paul nor Mrs. Romanov. Thus, the style of Countess Hohenfelson (not 1st Countess of) was given to her so that she could be known by some name. However, there was no title to be passed down the line to her descendants.

Her son by the Grand Duke was at that time legally still the son of her former husband, having been born before the divorce. Their daughters were still unborn. I have no idea what the Paley girls were called before they returned to Russia during WWI.

What I do know is that the Tsar regularized their styles when they did. The wife was henceforth known as Princess Paley, and never again as Countess Hohenfelson, which I think if pretty good evidence that it was a style, not a title. Their son Vladimir was known as Prince Paley and their two daughters as Princess (First Name) Paley.

The daughters continued to be known by their Paley names and never used the Hohenfelson style of their mother, who died in 1929.
 


The short answer - they needed to have something to call the wife and the children of the second marriage, so the Prince Regent of Bavaria granted the style. It had nothing to do with a title granting honors or responsibilities.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 21, 2008, 02:03:09 AM
Vladimir:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/w.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 21, 2008, 02:29:56 PM
As a postscript - there are (for example) websites that list Irene Paley - who went on to become Princess Feodor of Russia - as Princess Irene Paley, Countess Hohenfelson - but she would never have that name or been styled "Princess" as though she was a cocker spaniel in Russia.

In Imperial Russia, she was (after the family returned) HSH Princess Irina Pavlovna, Princess Paley. She would have been addressed as "Your Serene Highness", and would have been more casually referred to as "Irene Paley" or Princess Irene Paley".

AFAIK, the "Countess Hohenfelson" style would have only been used pre-1915 for either of the girls or VP.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Maximilian on October 23, 2008, 01:08:11 PM
Thank you Lisa,  :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 28, 2008, 02:37:46 AM
Nathalie Paley at the exhibition colonial (right):
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-31967.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on October 30, 2008, 04:33:50 AM
Nathalie, (right):
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-31529.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 31, 2008, 11:23:38 PM
Hi everyone,

In last month's french vogue there was an article on Nathalie Paley. Did anyone read it? I flipped through it but my french is terrible, does anyone have a copy of this magazine?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on November 02, 2008, 10:16:22 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-33218.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Joanna on November 03, 2008, 09:27:28 PM
Interesting journal entries in August 2008 on Olga Paley with photographs that may be new to some, for example Vladimir and his sisters:
http://img0.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/c/0/30/296/30296084_vlcsnap2433961.png

Part 1:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/arin_levindor/post82285904/
Part 2:
http://www.liveinternet.ru/users/arin_levindor/post82286034/

Joanna
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 04, 2008, 05:47:42 AM
Thanks for ther links!. There are pics i ve never seen of princess Paley and family!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on November 06, 2008, 02:41:38 AM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Nathalie/vlcsnap-32132.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: gogm on November 06, 2008, 02:50:25 PM
My gosh! This looks like some Hollywood movie from the 20s or 30s about how the swells live in Florida! And who (or what) is in the center of the lower row!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 14, 2008, 06:29:06 AM
Irene s wedding from maria pavlovna s book "A princess in exile"

(http://i33.tinypic.com/2hf2e11.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on November 23, 2008, 01:52:02 PM
Theodor and Michel:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/vlcsnap-296302.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on November 23, 2008, 04:09:34 PM
Very nice! :)

Marianna von Pistolkors:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/A%20Imperial%20Album/Russia/Morganatic%20Russians/annenkov_marianna_pistolkors_400.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on November 24, 2008, 02:51:50 AM
Beautiful portrait
Marianne managed to flee Soviet Russia?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on November 24, 2008, 07:51:59 AM
Beautiful portrait
Marianne managed to flee Soviet Russia?

Yes, she died in 1976, though I can't remember exactly there.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Marc on November 25, 2008, 07:19:25 AM
She was Countess von Zarnekau?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on November 25, 2008, 12:27:31 PM
She was Countess von Zarnekau?

Yes, in 1917 she married Nikolai Konstantinovitch, Count Zarnekau (1885-1976) and divorced him in 1930. She was married firstly to Petr Dournovo (1883-1945) and secondly to Chrisotopher von Derfelden.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on December 28, 2008, 07:54:43 AM
 Prince Paley French poem:
"Nous devons..." (janvier 1917):

"Nous devons remonter, au cours de cette vie,
Aux bords oubliés, vers la patrie inconnue,
Inspirant à nous ici ces rêves étranges,
Où la lumière et la musique sont mystérieusement unie...
Oh, degré inférieur! Oh, escalier vers le sacré!
Oh, prophétique, prophétique rêve de Jacob dans le désert!"
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on December 29, 2008, 07:56:33 AM
Alexandre von Pistolkors, 1915:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Gardes-a-Cheval_ca_1915_-_Pistolkho.jpg)

Grand Duc Paul, Princess Paley and Vladimir, France:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/GD_Paul_Alexandrovich_Romanov_ret1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on December 31, 2008, 02:41:36 AM
NathaliePaley
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/041.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 03, 2009, 02:24:35 AM
Is what Eric V. P. had a interview with the second  family of his ex-wife?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 10, 2009, 11:46:18 AM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/23996370an21.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 12, 2009, 02:28:14 AM
Paul:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/1212652996_portret-velikogo-knjazja.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 14, 2009, 02:41:59 AM
Irene and Michel:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/Irene%20and%20Theodor/img0001qu52fl31.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 16, 2009, 10:01:49 AM
Paul, Mria and Serge:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Photo/MariaAlexandrovnawithSergeandPaul1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on January 17, 2009, 10:03:47 AM
This of Irene and Michael is my favorite, thank you Alexandre 64 !
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Jose II on January 17, 2009, 12:30:52 PM
Does anybody have photos of Natalia's second husband John Chapman Wilson ?

And of Irina's second husband the Comte de Montbrison ? And his biological daughter Irene Feodorovitch ?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 29, 2009, 05:47:50 AM
Empress Maria A., Maria and Paul:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Photo/MariaAlexandrovnawithmotherandPaul1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 02, 2009, 03:52:32 AM
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/02-03-2009103820.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 02, 2009, 03:53:07 AM
Brief history
BY PHILIPPE DELORME
MOURNING IN Romanoff
Ia sad week for the Russian imperial family! A few hours
intervals, two heirs of the old tsars come to make their
soul to God. Distant descendant of Nicolas I, Michel Andréïevitch,
87 years, died September 21 in Sydney, Australia, where he
lived since 1941. The next day, his cousin Michel Feodorovitch
(photo) died in Paris. In this city, in the sixteenth
district, then "capital" of exiled White Russians, that the
Prince was born on 4 May 1924, told the state under the Civil
name "Romanoff of Russia." His father, Prince Feodor
Alexandrovich, was rear-grand son of Nicolas I, but also nephew
of Nicolas II, as the son of Archduchess Xenia
Alexandrovna. As for his mother, Princess Irene Paley, it was
After the marriage of Archduke morganatic Paul, son of Alexander II.
Thus, Michel Romanoff belonged to Russia by all fibers
of his being, carnal. But he was also very
French, "of heart and mind" and "grateful to France for
hospitality, "as emphasized in the do-part of mourning. High
between Paris and Biarritz, the Lord, who always combines simplicity and
nobility, grew up in a bohemian atmosphere of warm,
between his parents and aunt. The latter, Princess Nathalie Paley,
wife of couturier Lucien Lelong, will be a star of the arts
and mundane, muse of Jean Cocteau, Serge Lifar close, then
Luchino Visconti.
During the Second

World War,
Prince served in
infantry before
to begin from
1949, a
dazzling career
in the cinema.
During a
fifteen years,
he will attend the
large working
Edited by
Duvivier, Clouzot, Bresson, but also Americans Anatole Litvak
or Carol Reed. His name appears in the credits of
Evil, of Mutiny on the Bounty, Demoiselles de Rochefort,
the Wages of Fear, or ... Anastasia, on both sides of
Atlantic, his friends would be called Simone Signoret, Catherine
Deneuve, Tyrone Power, Ava Gardner, Yu! Brynner. Its first
union with Austria, Helga Stauffenberg, Michel had a
only son, named him and disappeared in early 2001.
Divorced, Michel Romanoff remarry with its companion
son, Mercedes Ustrell Cabana, of Catalan origin, and adopt its
own granddaughter, Tatiana. Since the fall of the USSR, Michel
Feodorovitch had the joy of discovering the land of his ancestors and
fought tirelessly to rehabilitate the memory of Romanoff.
His ashes, however, not based in Russia, but in
the island of Mainau on Lake Constance, Germany, near
those of his cousin, Count Lennart Bernadotte.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashdean on March 02, 2009, 05:55:38 AM
Does anybody have photos of Natalia's second husband John Chapman Wilson ?

And of Irina's second husband the Comte de Montbrison ? And his biological daughter Irene Feodorovitch ?

Thanks in advance.
There are photos of Wilson in at least one of the biographies of Cole Porter whose circle the Wilsons moved.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 04, 2009, 10:57:03 AM
These photos are beautiful, especially that of Princess Paley
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 13, 2009, 06:57:29 AM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/a6496d5899d0514e4b2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on March 16, 2009, 02:21:33 AM
Nathalie:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Paley/rd0707050451.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 02, 2009, 12:58:40 PM
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/histoire/BE07768011.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on April 05, 2009, 07:28:17 AM
Vladimir with his sisters:
(http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/5435/paley.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 05, 2009, 08:54:39 AM
(http://i42.tinypic.com/w6sac3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Reco on April 05, 2009, 03:42:34 PM
Vente du trésor retrouvé de la princesse Paley.
Article du magasine Point de Vue No 3167

Sale of the treasure found by the princess Paley.
Article of goes shopping Point of view N. 3167

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/967/parurepaley0.th.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=parurepaley0.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Reco on April 05, 2009, 04:02:20 PM

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6575/parurepaley1a.th.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=parurepaley1a.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Reco on April 05, 2009, 04:03:53 PM

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/451/parurepaley2az.th.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=parurepaley2az.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Reco on April 05, 2009, 04:04:58 PM

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6707/parurepaley3a.th.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=parurepaley3a.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Reco on April 05, 2009, 04:06:23 PM

(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4007/parurepaley4a.th.jpg) (http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=parurepaley4a.jpg)(http://)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 07, 2009, 07:00:47 AM
Princess Olga Paley, Courtesy of Minnie from "foros Dinastias"

(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5607/olgapaley.jpg) (http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=olgapaley.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on April 09, 2009, 07:55:28 AM
Natalie Paley:

By Cecil Beaton:
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/9998/natalien.jpg) (http://img9.imageshack.us/my.php?image=natalien.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/natalien.jpg/1/w650.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img9/natalien.jpg/1/)

In the movie "Sylvia Scarlett" from 1935:

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6426/88803465.jpg) (http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=88803465.jpg)
(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/88803465.jpg/1/w645.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img14/88803465.jpg/1/)

"L'epervier" (1933)

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1693/59918104.jpg) (http://img4.imageshack.us/my.php?image=59918104.jpg)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/59918104.jpg/1/w484.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img4/59918104.jpg/1/)

And I don't know where this comes from:

(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/67/nattyx.jpg) (http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nattyx.jpg)
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/nattyx.jpg/1/w502.png) (http://g.imageshack.us/img19/nattyx.jpg/1/)

To finish with, a video of her rehearsing a scene to the movie "L'epervier":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhpEw36cb_w


P.S. Does anybody have pictures of Irina Paley's daughter?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on April 12, 2009, 08:19:12 AM
Grand Duke Paul with the children of his first marriage, Marie and Dimitri :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/dpm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on April 18, 2009, 09:13:31 PM
Paul with quite a cloak!

(http://photo.fine-art-images.net/en/archive/medium/000697.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on April 28, 2009, 10:00:11 AM
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/eulaliapcsspaleyjr41.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on April 28, 2009, 11:09:04 AM
Just a remainder after viewing the whole thread : Please, use this topic only for the Paleys - GD Pavel's second family. GDss Maria Pavlovna-younger and her brother GD Dmitriy have their own threads.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 28, 2009, 11:33:03 AM
That last picture courtesy of Sabbatical from "foros dinastia" ;-)

Awesome one. Both ladies looking great ;-)







Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on June 07, 2009, 09:51:47 AM
Natalie Paley :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/nathapal.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 15, 2009, 09:54:44 AM
A very curious fact about Natalie! I've just started reading "Natalie Paley: Princesse en exil" by Jean Noel Liaut and, in the first pages he talks about a rumor that said that Queen Mary was impress by Natalie's beauty and tried to marry her off with one of her sons!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashdean on June 15, 2009, 11:42:40 AM
(http://i713.photobucket.com/albums/ww139/Romanov_06/eulaliapcsspaleyjr41.jpg)
Princess Paley is wearing her diamond diadem (centre pearshaped stone 27 carats) as a corsage garland and her diamond and pearl stomacher brooch as a hat badge..both items were by Cartier.The occassion was a fancy dress ball given by Countess de Yturbe in Paris
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 19, 2009, 12:22:57 PM
Natalie Paley with Serge Lifar:

(http://img7.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/4162/4162827006cb1a4cdd99b6529bae3086a5d96a3.jpg) (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=4162827&showlnk=0)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 19, 2009, 12:31:48 PM
And a little p.s. Where did the information about Natalie's supposed rape came from? I couldn't find any references to it in Jean-Noel Liaut's book, unless I've missed something... she did become distant and could only maintain friendships with men who looked physically like her brother Vladimir for a while, but does that necessarily mean that she was sexually assaulted? There is quote that explains her state of mind in the time that followed the events of the revolution, when she entered a private school in Switzerland and couldn't mix with everybody else because she felt different:

"At twelve, French girls were still reading Robinson Crusoe and watching Douglas Fairbanks movies. At twelve, I was taking some bread to my father in jail. How could I have been like them? I was mute, I would not play. But I was reading a lot. I had faced death, so close. My father executed, my brother, my cousins, my uncles, executed, all Romanov blood splashed on my adolescence. This gave me a taste for sad things, poetry, the icy and lightning antechamber of death. Soon, my classmates understood me. And respected the way I was, as strange as it have may seemed."

I may be wrong, of course and my French, I'm afraid, is not what you would call impeccable, but where did that came from?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: imperial angel on June 19, 2009, 03:18:42 PM
I didn't know there was a book about her, I guess it's never been translated into English. I liked the quote you posted from the book. Her brother of course was a poet, and some of his poems earlier on this thread, aren't so different from the perspective she expressed in that quote when she mentions" sad things, poetry", etc, although he didn't survive the Revolution.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on July 03, 2009, 10:19:59 AM
"And their love was called - Vladimir"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1x_JyRuFCI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1x_JyRuFCI)

R.I.P Vladimir, who died for love and devotion at a time when the world was filled with hatred and distrust
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 03, 2009, 11:40:17 AM
beautiful video!. I tried to post a comment there but i couldnt so, thanks for posting it and thanks for using my colorized picture =D!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on July 07, 2009, 07:01:26 AM
I didn't know there was a book about her, I guess it's never been translated into English. I liked the quote you posted from the book. Her brother of course was a poet, and some of his poems earlier on this thread, aren't so different from the perspective she expressed in that quote when she mentions" sad things, poetry", etc, although he didn't survive the Revolution.

No, unfortunately it has never been translated into English, which made it a lot harder to understand! Both Irina and Natalia were extremely close to their brother, which may have somehow affected their vision of the world (if that makes any sense). Irina had a particulary close relationship with her father and he doted on her because she reminded him of his own mother, Empress Maria Alexandrovna. Prince Felix Youssupov is also quoted in the book saying that Irina Pavlovna reassembled her grandmother physical. But, anyway, the point is that their deaths during the revolution were hard blows for both sisters, but Irina seems to have dealt with it a little better than Natalia.

As for books about the Paleys, I was surprised to know that there are a few of them. I don't recall all the titles and authors right now, but I will post them latter!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on July 12, 2009, 03:06:18 PM
(http://img9.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/4305/4305989be82d512a10cf8f9eae980654a740743.jpg) (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=4305989&showlnk=0)

With Maurice Chevalier
(http://img5.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/4305/43059953aebe9e2d6f3ff05022640fe2e338dd4.jpg) (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=4305995&showlnk=0)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on July 26, 2009, 03:09:48 AM


Vladimir Paley:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/8452/dsc00022ccc.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Ally Kumari on August 11, 2009, 09:25:08 AM
Grand Duke Pavel (can´t find a topic on him alone....)

(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/Romanovs/th_MES11240.jpg) (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff287/VelkokneznaMaria/Romanovs/MES11240.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on August 25, 2009, 07:51:35 AM
Irina and Feodor:

(http://img6.uploadhouse.com/fileuploads/4541/45415965b8b289a65ad37a352849152b3864897.jpg) (http://www.uploadhouse.com/viewfile.php?id=4541596&showlnk=0)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 01, 2009, 09:19:07 AM
Princess Olga Paley
(http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/8833/20054311204.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2009, 03:52:36 PM
GD Pavel Alexandrovich
(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2369/59762728.jpg)

Volodya
(http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2179/vladpalei3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 02, 2009, 04:14:52 PM
GD Pavel Alexandrovich
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2369/59762728.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2369/59762728.jpg)

Volodya
http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2179/vladpalei3.jpg (http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/2179/vladpalei3.jpg)

I never saw these before! They're great! Thank you for sharing!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on September 18, 2009, 02:11:07 PM
I wonder if someone has big sized pictures of Natalie Paley. Really need tham for my history progect and would be very grateful.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 18, 2009, 02:30:32 PM
I have a few big sized pictures of her:

(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3407/ogaaabhdx0qtrmfpzr4fvki.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/301/ogaaachosalw6fkni8a1lk9.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/8113/ogaaacnox4l69sqvdzu3fyd.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7159/ogaaadudtawkcnmhza6vwyy.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 18, 2009, 02:32:43 PM
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5894/ogaaaes3bltvnvqqaa5jmci.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5189/ogaaafsckyzpbm80rzbjlp7.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2879/ogaaagjn5uj1fjvk9411zwm.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/8227/ogaaah4rr67s3ktqrbwj4xj.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/9692/ogaaahcgl9vsshglpfemrft.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 18, 2009, 02:35:30 PM
(http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/7293/ogaaal9crirlvkxitfjisxk.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1679/ogaaanpyf6bffwqjvxmwhla.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4517/ogaaaoa1xlztnotfu4cvnna.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

(http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8325/ogaaap2yhugmultuhw0yzvd.jpg)
Shot at 2009-09-18

Well, some of them actually look bigger on Image Shack, but you can go there and see it: http://img15.imageshack.us/i/ogaaahcgl9vsshglpfemrft.jpg/
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on September 19, 2009, 09:36:20 AM
Thank you very much! You helped me a lot! Most of this pictures i have never seen before!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on September 26, 2009, 12:01:27 PM
Irina Paley and Feodor :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/irifeo.jpg)

Again Feodor with Irina :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/feodoriri.jpg)

Irina Paley on the Biarritz' beach :

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/iribeach.jpg)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: DuchessElla on October 08, 2009, 02:12:42 PM
Hello everyone.

I am very eager to learn about Prince Vladimir Paley.

I was wondering if pictures and information anyone has on this magnificent young man could be posted in this topic.

Thank you very much. :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: newfan on October 08, 2009, 09:44:55 PM
you should read a book about him ..A poet among the Romanovs
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 09, 2009, 06:46:20 AM
Vladimir seems to have been more of a quiet sort. His talents started to show very early on and they were deeply encouraged by his parents (especially his mother). He was very much loved within the family from all that I've read. His mother, particularly, doted on him more than in any of her children, but at least Irina and Natalia didn't mind the preference because they also saw their brother as a role model and loved him so much that they thought this connection of their mother with him was fair.

According to Jean-Noël Liaut, all this attention had an effect on him during his childhood and early teen years and he was somewhat spoiled and not very nice to others outside his family. His days were spent writing, composing and painting under the watchful eye of his mother. Eventually he started to grow a more mature personality and to let himself do more of his life than the arts when he was sent to St. Petersburg at age of about 13-14 to begin his military training in the Corps de Pages. There he started to be more sociable, to have new experiments, etc... and it was there too that he developed his already deep religious personality. He was well-loved by everyone he knew.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on October 10, 2009, 08:07:49 PM
Thank you. I have been there before.

But it seems his personality and such is still very vague to me.

Do you know if there is more insightful information on this Prince?

to add on to Sara's note, Vladimir is also a popular figure in among the circle of young people in his family's social strata, his mother Princess Paley called him "the life of the party" as he has a knack for entertaining people. Like many of his contemporaries, he also enjoys costume balls and was described as "prince charming" on one occasion (which made Princess Paley very proud). I thnk it's safe to say that he has a deep appreciation for all joys in life - from the sacred to the secular - and he knows which ones come first.
You can read "Memories of Russia" by his mother Princess Paley http://www.alexanderpalace.org/memoriesrussia/
also, I made a video tribute to him "Poet Among the Romanovs - Prince Vladimir Paley" which can be found here if you're interested http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1x_JyRuFCI
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: DuchessElla on October 11, 2009, 08:40:31 PM
My gosh. I had no idea Vladimir was considered spoiled and such, let alone unpleasant to others outside his family. Thank you for that new information!

I know this is a morbid question to ask but, is there any surviving photographs of his corpse. It seems there are photos of the others but I never came across a post mortem of Prince Paley. Does anyone know any information regarding this?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 11, 2009, 09:57:53 PM
where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled?  i just find it ridiculous, i've read a lot of his poetry and i find it frankly stupid that anyone would say Vladimir was spoiled, his poems are very humble imo and showing of a personality that is the opposite of arrogant.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on October 11, 2009, 11:10:55 PM
where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled? 

He was spoilt as a child,what's wrong with it? That doesn't mean he was a nasty boy or a digusting young man. Many children, especially those born of a great love of the parents, are spoilt. GDss Maria Pavlovna in her memoirs admitted that her half-brother was very charming and spoilt.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 11, 2009, 11:19:35 PM
I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on October 11, 2009, 11:40:22 PM
I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

You know I don't have an impression that Olga Paley liked Maria, she mentions step-daughter only once in her memoirs and somewhat passing reference. Maria with her conflicting character was not an easy daughter and step-daughter, but she obviously really was fascinated with Vladimir and his talent.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 11, 2009, 11:42:44 PM
where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled? 

He was spoilt as a child,what's wrong with it? That doesn't mean he was a nasty boy or a digusting young man. Many children, especially those born of a great love of the parents, are spoilt. GDss Maria Pavlovna in her memoirs admitted that her half-brother was very charming and spoilt.

oh i see, spoiled as a little boy hahh i quite overreacted there...thank you svetabel :D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 11, 2009, 11:45:56 PM
I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

You know I don't have an impression that Olga Paley liked Maria, she mentions step-daughter only once in her memoirs and somewhat passing reference. Maria with her conflicting character was not an easy daughter and step-daughter, but she obviously really was fascinated with Vladimir and his talent.

 I never read Olga's memoirs, ok.
also Maria was a self centered person to me, and only loved her brother.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on October 12, 2009, 05:10:21 AM
Of course, there was a distinct age gap between Paul Alexandrovich's two families, and the elder two can have seen very little of the younger three before their father returned to Russia. Further, it would only be human if Maria Pavlovna, having lost her mother before she could remember her, and then been effectively abandoned by her father, rather resented his second family, especially if they were spoilt.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 12, 2009, 08:11:17 AM
where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled?  i just find it ridiculous, i've read a lot of his poetry and i find it frankly stupid that anyone would say Vladimir was spoiled, his poems are very humble imo and showing of a personality that is the opposite of arrogant.

He mentions it on Natalie's biography. I don't have the exact quote with me right now because I've borrowed the book, but as soon as I get it I'll post it.  :)

I think Maria Pavlovna was very close to the second family. She used to spent two weeks with them in Paris, but there is no mention if her brother Dmitri would join her, and she seemed to get along with them very well. I've even saved a couple of quotes about it. I thought they were funny!  :D

"My father and stepmother lived a quiet life as common citizens, doing what they wanted to do. (...) It was for me great fun to forget etiquette for two to three weeks while I was on vacation with them. It was also a joy to belong to that wonderful family from time to time because they were truly happy."

"When I arrived for dinner, the children were impatient. (...) Next to my father was an empty chair, belonging to his wife, and it would remain so for most of the meal. My stepmother was never able to be ready on time. My father ended up accepting it. (...) The dinner proceed. The girls, siting on both sides of their governess, were pretending to be wise men. Volodia, my half-brother, was making much noise and countless questions. It was useless to make a conversion or to impose silence."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 12, 2009, 04:58:27 PM
I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

dmitri didn't like her either, i have read his letters to tsar nicholas about not being sorry he never sees her or her family...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on October 12, 2009, 05:00:55 PM
really? intersting. where did you find his letters about Princess Paley and her family?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 12, 2009, 05:39:16 PM
I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

dmitri didn't like her either, i have read his letters to tsar nicholas about not being sorry he never sees her or her family...

It would be interesting to read those letters... I never felt there was any special animosity between them. I actually think Dmitri thought very well of her. At least it was the impression I got from this part of her memoirs:

During our stay at Mohileff the Grand Duke Dimitri, who was on duty with the Emperor, often came to lunch and. dine with us. Very well informed about war matters and what was in progress at the headquarters of the General Staff, endowed with remarkable intelligence and with the faculty of grasping facts and drawing from them the necessary conclusion, this young man of twenty-five was a mature man and a shrewd observer. He also recognised the imminent danger which the country was running, and he had conversations on the subject more than once with the Emperor . and with his own father. I remember that one day at Mohileff, at tea time, he said to me:

"Ah, mamotchka (a tender diminutive of mama), if only you knew what is going to happen!"
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 12, 2009, 06:01:28 PM
I wonder was Vladimir close to Maria Pavlona jr?

His mother Princess Paley, seems like Maria, but disliked Dmitri.

dmitri didn't like her either, i have read his letters to tsar nicholas about not being sorry he never sees her or her family...

It would be interesting to read those letters... I never felt there was any special animosity between them. I actually think Dmitri thought very well of her. At least it was the impression I got from this part of her memoirs:

During our stay at Mohileff the Grand Duke Dimitri, who was on duty with the Emperor, often came to lunch and. dine with us. Very well informed about war matters and what was in progress at the headquarters of the General Staff, endowed with remarkable intelligence and with the faculty of grasping facts and drawing from them the necessary conclusion, this young man of twenty-five was a mature man and a shrewd observer. He also recognised the imminent danger which the country was running, and he had conversations on the subject more than once with the Emperor . and with his own father. I remember that one day at Mohileff, at tea time, he said to me:

"Ah, mamotchka (a tender diminutive of mama), if only you knew what is going to happen!"



what is funny to me is that i read this too, and this is why when i read his letter to nicholas i was surprised. if i recall right he says he never sees the paleys anymore and that's fine with him, and something about olga and putting up with the hohenfelzens...although i have also read that n&a were not close with the hohenfelzens...this might be a case of dmitri playing up certain opinions to get on one side of the tsar...not to be disrespectful !
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 13, 2009, 07:31:02 AM
It could be!  :)

But I also have another theory... couldn't Princess Paley have exaggerated the depth of her relationship with Dmitri? Or maybe that he would act kindly towards his stepmother in order to some sort of moral obligation to his father? 
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 13, 2009, 10:35:07 AM
it could certainly be a combination of all these things...it was the court after all, and manners before feelings to your face! olga ilked to play up her relationship to the tsarina as well i've noticed. perhaps the paleys felt like outsiders, because so many disapproved of their marriage, and were simply trying to fit in :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on October 14, 2009, 07:39:12 PM
My gosh. I had no idea Vladimir was considered spoiled and such, let alone unpleasant to others outside his family. Thank you for that new information!

I know this is a morbid question to ask but, is there any surviving photographs of his corpse. It seems there are photos of the others but I never came across a post mortem of Prince Paley. Does anyone know any information regarding this?

I don't think there is one taken of him even though pictures of others were taken.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on October 14, 2009, 07:49:14 PM
where in the world did jean noel liaut hear that Vladimir was spoiled?  i just find it ridiculous, i've read a lot of his poetry and i find it frankly stupid that anyone would say Vladimir was spoiled, his poems are very humble imo and showing of a personality that is the opposite of arrogant.

I agree, a lot of attention was lavished upon him as he is his parents' love child and he does enjoy employing his little sisters in his theatrical pursuits (and they happily did) but I don't think he was spoiled. When he entered the Corps des Pages at the age of 11 (not 13 or 14), he was at first shy because his Russian wasn't good due to his being raised in France. However, after he overcame his language problem he socialized quite well with his fellow cadets.

GD Maria said this about Vladimir in her memoir and I quote: "when he was still a baby, there was something indefinable about him that set him apart from the others......"
"when he was a child, in fact, I considered him a nuisance, affected and priggish. But later I understood that he was simply a being older than his years lost in the milieu to which his age assigned him."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 15, 2009, 12:18:40 PM
Some of Vladimir's music (as well as that of other Romanovs) will be performed in Moscow!

http://www.theroyalforums.com/12324-sound-of-the-dynasty-music-written-by-romanovs-to-be-performed-for-the-first-time

It's a very interesting idea, I think!  :)

Again... as soon as I get hold of my book about Natalie, I'll post the quote. It was just something that I read and struck me, but I'm not an expert to to say if he was spoiled or not. I'm just quoting...  :-[
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 15, 2009, 03:48:37 PM
And I've just found a picture I'd never seen before of Grand Duke Paul:

(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2258/paulot.jpg) (http://img301.imageshack.us/i/paulot.jpg/)

Along with further information about Princess Paley's relationship with Empress Alexandra, which indeed didn't seem to be very colourful. This is an excerpt from "The Court of the Last Tsar" by Greg King:

"Empress Alexandra dictated further humiliation: the countess could be presented to members of the Romanov family, but not formally through their official suites, as ordinary aristocratic women were - only in private and only by her husband. She also required, when visiting the imperial palaces, to leave her card rather than sign her name in the guest-book, as were other ladies of the court. Such deliberated slights left Paul Alexandrovich angry. He latter spoke of the many "insults at the hands of my Imperial relatives and their satellites, mostly men and women of social degeneracy and referred to his uncle, the emperor [a little error as he was his nephew] as one of the principal persecutors of myself and my family", terming him "a political imbecile". 

Which leads me to the conclusion that uncle and nephew were not in very good terms either...  :D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on October 16, 2009, 04:02:59 PM
And I've just found a picture I'd never seen before of Grand Duke Paul:

(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2258/paulot.jpg) (http://img301.imageshack.us/i/paulot.jpg/)

Along with further information about Princess Paley's relationship with Empress Alexandra, which indeed didn't seem to be very colourful. This is an excerpt from "The Court of the Last Tsar" by Greg King:

"Empress Alexandra dictated further humiliation: the countess could be presented to members of the Romanov family, but not formally through their official suites, as ordinary aristocratic women were - only in private and only by her husband. She also required, when visiting the imperial palaces, to leave her card rather than sign her name in the guest-book, as were other ladies of the court. Such deliberated slights left Paul Alexandrovich angry. He latter spoke of the many "insults at the hands of my Imperial relatives and their satellites, mostly men and women of social degeneracy and referred to his uncle, the emperor [a little error as he was his nephew] as one of the principal persecutors of myself and my family", terming him "a political imbecile". 

Which leads me to the conclusion that uncle and nephew were not in very good terms either...  :D

Not so. I think Nicholas' relationship with his Uncle Paul was fairly complex. I'm quite sure that PA was angry and annoyed with Imperial protocol and his niece by marriage's slights to his wife. On the other hand, Nicholas was more respectful of the "older generation" than many of his contemporaries, and he was very fond of Paul's son, Dmitri, bringing him into his own household to be raised.

Politically, Paul was much more liberal than the Emperor and indeed kept urging Nicholas right up until the end to grant a more democratic government.

The nuances of this relationship were lost on the Bolsheviks, who murdered the Grand Duke at his namesake fortress, Peter and Paul.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on October 25, 2009, 11:04:28 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/watermark/hpqscan0035-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 07, 2009, 07:14:31 AM
Those are trully wonderful pictures! I'd never seen them before! Thanks for sharing!  :)

So, I finally got my book on Natalie Paley back! So here's the quote I'd mentioned:

"We could, however, be surprised with the path given to Vladimir's studies, since nothing in him could predict such a turn. It's necessary to analyse in this choice the claw of Grand Duke Paul, whom, on the opposite of his wife, «was far remote from the qualities that gave his son all his value.» and «his sightly bohemian tendencies left him surprised, but perhaps also worried.»
Time would make him right. Bodia, separated from his family, far from the adoration of his mother and sisters, he gained contact with other boys of his age and the impeccable discipline of the Corps des Pages.
He became more natural, more spontaneous, but never neglected his different passions.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on November 08, 2009, 03:53:31 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/hpqscan0034-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on November 29, 2009, 09:14:21 AM
I just love the name Pistohlkors! It might interest some of you to know that it means "pistol cross" in Swedish, hence the arms:

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/PistohlkorsWappen.jpg)
One of those funny Swedish ornamental surnames.

Does anybody have a picture of the Paley arms? (To be found in Часть 20 Общего гербовника дворянских родов Всероссийской империи, стр. 1 = Part 20 of the General Armorial of Noble Families of the All-Russian Empire, page 1)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: newfan on November 29, 2009, 10:06:14 PM
HI ..The book on Nathalie Paley whats the title?is it in english?,,,I only saw one on wiki and its this one:Jean-Noël Liaut, "Natalie Paley: La princesse dechirée", Paris: Filipacchi, 1996 ISBN 2-85018-295-8
thanks
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 30, 2009, 07:09:55 AM
Yes, that's the one I have...  ;)

I think that is the only one entirely dedicated to her, but there is a great selection of books where she is mentioned.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 30, 2009, 07:16:08 AM
Lovely potos, thank you ashanti. Pity they are not dated.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on November 30, 2009, 09:21:29 AM
On the subject of the Pistolkors coat-of-arms, which came first, the name or the arms?

In English and Scottish heraldry, there is a concept of 'canting' arms, where the devices on the arms are a visual pun on the name. For example, a person named Stagg would include a stag or stag's head in his arms. There are lots of other examples.

However, it has been suggested that in some cases, before surnames became fully established, the coat-of-arms predated the surname and a person changed his name to fit his arms. The example I know is that of Lyon. The earliest Lyon arms show a lion rampant azure on argent, with only very minor differences from the better-known arms of Bruce. As it is unlikely that anybody in the 14th century would adopt Bruce-type arms unless there was a close family tie, the theory is that the earliest known Lyon (Sir John Lyon, who married one of Robert II's daughters) was a Bruce who changed his name.

Ann
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on December 06, 2009, 07:52:10 PM
Yes, the Pistolkors arms are absolutely canting.
On the subject of the Pistolkors coat-of-arms, which came first, the name or the arms?
I think they came at the same time - in 1645, when Queen Kristina of Sweden ennobled the Lieutenant Jöran Olufsson of the Karelian Cavalry. He, like so many Scandinavians ennobled by letters patent, obviously emulated the "armorially derived surname" of the ancient Scandinavian noble families like Vasa, Oxenstierna, Rosenkrantz, Gyldenstierna, Gedde, Banér, Bielke, Sparre, Stenbock, Galtung, Natt och Dag, Leijonhuvud etc. But simultaneously he needed arms to derive that surname from!

In Scandinavia (particularly Norway and Denmark) where so many people have farm names as surname, territorial surnames (or titles) are not much used by the nobility, in stark contrast to both Britain, but especially France and Germany.  But unlike in Russia (and Britain), any surname can't be seen as noble, they are usually either foreign (mostly German, e.g. Wedell, Von Essen) or "ornamental surnames" derived or pseudo-derived from arms, like Pistohlkors. But in Sweden ornamental surnames have crept further down than just the nobility: A farmer from Lindtorp (= Linden Croft) would for instance combine one part of the name of his ancestral hamlet with an "ornament" like gren (= branch) and get the name Lindgren.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on December 07, 2009, 03:30:25 AM
Thanks for this interesting info on the Pistolkors arms and surname - and Swedish arms and surnames in general.

Ann
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on December 26, 2009, 07:09:45 AM
Natalie's dance with Maurice Chevalier
(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAANb8VwOOAZGSxEoXQVP9ZhJN-TcwyqaES0518U8nUu6beyB-FTgCT_cKyizi0JPoYAvBx5-qOKT8kyghByxM4v4Am1T1UDAe9c-4VKTMkmxdY1vEa5jUvFpf.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on January 15, 2010, 06:48:10 PM
Property of Olga, Princess Paley

(http://www.saratogafineart.com/0902.jpg)

A highlight of the auction was "a selection of aquamarine and diamond jewels made by Cartier in 1912, which wasoriginally part of the collection of Olga, Princess Paley, Countess of Hohenfelsen. Following enthusiastic bidding, the prices fetched were well above their pre-sale estimates: the aigrette sold for CHF 566,500 ($512,014 / €379,034), the necklace for $392,710 (CHF 434,500 / € 290,715) and the devant de corsage for $164,947 (CHF 182,500 / €122,107). Each of these lots had pre-sale estimates of $100,000-150,000."

(http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sothebys/GE0902-281-lr-1?$lot_main$)

In the garland style centring on a cushion-shaped aquamarine drop within an open work millegrain surround of circular-, single- and rose-cut diamonds suspended from a pair of oval aquamarine brooches within open work lozenge shaped frames to a millegrain-set connecting chain, drop and brooches detachable.

(http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sothebys/GE0902-282-lr-1?$lot_main$)

In the garland style, centring on a cushion-shaped aquamarine within an openwork scroll frame of millegrain-set circular-cut diamonds, suspending a similarly set pear-shaped aquamarine drop, to a necklace designed as two graduated lines of circular-cut diamonds accented with a pair of circular aquamarine links, signed Cartier Paris, length approximately 380mm.

(http://s7d2.scene7.com/is/image/Sothebys/GE0902-283-lr-1?$lot_main$)

Centring on a cushion-shaped aquamarine within an arched surround of interlaced open work scrolls millegrain set with circular- and rose-cut diamonds, surmounted by a pear-shaped aquamarine, signed Cartier Paris, Londres, New York.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: katmaxoz on January 15, 2010, 09:10:50 PM
They are excellent aquamarines in this set.  They look the same quality as the ones owned by Queen Elizabeth. So many aquamarines you see today are washed out and lack the depth of colour you see in the really good stones like these.  Shows what you can buy if you don't have to worry about the cost I guess.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on January 15, 2010, 09:48:44 PM
Those pieces are stunning. Thank you for posting the photos
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on January 15, 2010, 10:15:47 PM
What a beautiful collection Princess Paley must have had, these and other jewels that have been posted. Did she sell them after the revolution?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on January 16, 2010, 05:15:26 AM
I believe she sold some of them by the time she bought a house in Biarritz, but there were also some that were literally stolen by the Bolshevists and latter sold in London. Princess Paley tried to recover them, but she couldn't.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nemos on January 21, 2010, 02:58:34 PM
1913-14 Павел Александрович
(http://i071.radikal.ru/1001/5a/e4dc8e0cc34ct.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/i071.radikal.ru/1001/5a/e4dc8e0cc34c.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on January 21, 2010, 09:13:44 PM
Hi, nemos, any chance you can mark which members of the paley family are in the picture? Thanks!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on January 22, 2010, 12:11:42 AM
HRH Pavl Alexandrovich, Prince Peter Alexandrovich, Countess Shuvalova, Klenmikel, Duke Dona-Shlobittyen, Prince Trubyetskaya, Duchess Pistolkers. . .A. P. Polostov, Count Starzhenski, Prince Bargration, Count Totylebyen, Grabbe, Kaufmann, Nikolaev, Rayevskaya, Neklyoodov, Lazareva.

Sorry if i missed a few it's hard to read some of it. . .looks like Paul and his wife Olga were there. Can anyone find them in either pictures?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on January 22, 2010, 12:54:59 AM
1913-14 Павел Александрович
(http://i071.radikal.ru/1001/5a/e4dc8e0cc34ct.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/i071.radikal.ru/1001/5a/e4dc8e0cc34c.jpg.html)

The famous fancy-ball at Countess Maria Kleinmikhel. Also you can see GDss Viktoria Fedorovna in the centre of the second picture (in the Persian costume and diadem).
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on January 22, 2010, 05:43:45 PM
HRH Pavl Alexandrovich, Prince Peter Alexandrovich, Countess Shuvalova, Klenmikel, Duke Dona-Shlobittyen, Prince Trubyetskaya, Duchess Pistolkers. . .A. P. Polostov, Count Starzhenski, Prince Bargration, Count Totylebyen, Grabbe, Kaufmann, Nikolaev, Rayevskaya, Neklyoodov, Lazareva.

Sorry if i missed a few it's hard to read some of it. . .looks like Paul and his wife Olga were there. Can anyone find them in either pictures?

Thank you Sasha! The name Kleinmichael reminds me of Princess Paley writing about Vladimir being allowed to attend a ball (along with his parents) given by Countess Kleinmichael when he was 17, which would make it 1914, it was a costume party like this one and he was wearing, to quote Princess Paley, "coat of white cloth, embroidered in gold, and close-fitting, showed off his slender figure. Loose trousers made of blue silk, boots of soft red shagreen, and a cap of white cloth with wide bands of sable". maybe he is in this picture as well?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on January 22, 2010, 11:28:43 PM
HRH Pavl Alexandrovich, Prince Peter Alexandrovich, Countess Shuvalova, Klenmikel, Duke Dona-Shlobittyen, Prince Trubyetskaya, Duchess Pistolkers. . .A. P. Polostov, Count Starzhenski, Prince Bargration, Count Totylebyen, Grabbe, Kaufmann, Nikolaev, Rayevskaya, Neklyoodov, Lazareva.

Sorry if i missed a few it's hard to read some of it. . .looks like Paul and his wife Olga were there. Can anyone find them in either pictures?

Thank you Sasha! The name Kleinmichael reminds me of Princess Paley writing about Vladimir being allowed to attend a ball (along with his parents) given by Countess Kleinmichael when he was 17, which would make it 1914, it was a costume party like this one and he was wearing, to quote Princess Paley, "coat of white cloth, embroidered in gold, and close-fitting, showed off his slender figure. Loose trousers made of blue silk, boots of soft red shagreen, and a cap of white cloth with wide bands of sable". maybe he is in this picture as well?

Yes, the same Countess Kleinmichel, they had such a beautiful villa just outside St Petersburg. She was very famous for her parties and managed to escape the revolution unharmed. I believe there is a story about her helping guests through the back entrance while the revolutionaries pounded at her door

Photos of her home:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0ADiKHoDjo/SNR_4X2bjUI/AAAAAAAACho/L5A-9DLwj7o/s400/Kleinmichel+Villa.bmp

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0ADiKHoDjo/SNR878JJzQI/AAAAAAAAChg/lSu1zyQDd0M/s400/Kleinmichel+Villa.facade.bmp

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on January 23, 2010, 04:40:10 PM
beautiful! :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nemos on January 26, 2010, 04:25:58 AM
http://pushkin-history.info/component/option,com_datsogallery/Itemid,143/func,detail/catid,39/id,6841/
1915. Дворец Е.И.В. Великого Князя Павла Александровича.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on January 27, 2010, 11:45:09 AM
Romans based on Vladimir's poem, sings Ylia Berezova
http://www.filehoster.ru/files/ei4784 (http://www.filehoster.ru/files/ei4784)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on January 29, 2010, 01:02:54 PM
Natalie:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OQAAAIoXMNruT5r_oAE-UvamERrrhAk_usCYPiGqSg5mgUXn_mSlUVR6etqwuOlDDwElyzVC08DErDIQtE6_Q6xDGXUAm1T1UNS8WtdvPCTLq7nDuqJp3G10ZkHy.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on February 21, 2010, 09:52:21 PM
Does anybody have a picture of the Paley arms? (To be found in Часть 20 Общего гербовника дворянских родов Всероссийской империи, стр. 1 = Part 20 of the General Armorial of Noble Families of the All-Russian Empire, page 1)
I am still so curious about their arms. If somebody knows, please post! :-)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on April 16, 2010, 03:56:38 PM
A letter from Natalie to Jean Cocteau:

"Suvretta House
Saint-Moritz
Vendredi 2 septembre 1932

Jean mon amour,

Ce n'est pas exactement la vérité. Car tu sais comme je sais que tu as parlé. Ce ne sont pas des potins. Je les aurais ignorés comme tu l'as toujours fait, mais c'est venant de toi qu'une indiscrétion me blesse et me fait mal.

Le fait même de trouver cela peu important me prouve combien nous jugeons la vie, les sentiments différemment. Voilà ce qui m'épouvant. L'amour n'est pas tout dans la vie. Il faut une entente absolue et cela nous ne l'avons pas. Tu as dit dans tes livres "Celui qui aime écrit sur les murs" et c'est vraiment ce que tu ressens profondément et que tu as besoin de traduire. Moi, c'est entèrement le contraire, et c'est un peu effrayant. Chéri, peux-tu penser uniquement à moi et me laisser être égoiste jusqu'au bout. Ne me presse pas de questions sur l'avenir. Je veux du calme et encore du calme et du repos. Si tu savais combien je suis moralment fatiguée. Je n'ai plus de courage de penser au futur. Je ne veux pas y penser. Je laisse peu á peu revenir à moi le goûte de vivre (j'étais si bas), du bonheur. Comment veux-tu que je fasse des plans, que je bâtisse une nouvelle vie alors que l'essentiel me manque, le désir de vivre.

Il fait beau, il y a du soleil, je t'aime et cela me suffit. Je ne veux rien savoir d'autre."

I would venture a translation, but my guess is that it would make both Natalie and Cocteau come out of their graves and kill me, so I'll keep it simple.  :D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 16, 2010, 04:09:21 PM
Comme à « La Montagne magique » de Mann !

Quote from: Sara Araújo
I would venture a translation, but my guess is that it would make both Natalie and Cocteau come out of their graves and kill me, so I'll keep it simple.  Cheesy

Don't worry, I'd say. People who don't understand that much French (or are too lazy to use Google Translate :-) don't deserve to read it!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 15, 2010, 01:56:23 PM
Here are some poems of Prince Vladimir Paley:

In French:

Les miettes

Je t'aimais bien, petite actrice
Aux yeux gris clair, aux cheveux blonds
Que longeant un foyer oblong
J'entrevis une nuit à Nice...

Bien avant que l'acte finisse
J'imaginais - pauvre garçon -
Le demi-jour de ton salon
Loin du grand fracat des coulisses

Parfois, vois tu, sans que l'on sache
Qu'un lien quelque part vous attache
Ce lien se dechire soudain...

Et l'on part emiettant sans cesse
Comme anx petits oiseaux le pain

Aux coeurs inconnus sa tendresse...

Novembre 1913
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 15, 2010, 01:57:04 PM
Agonie

Elle disait:"je veux par les
Sentiers ombrageux m'en aller
Pour ne voir et n'aimer personne...
Me sentir delivrer enfin
Et n'entendre dans le lointain
Que la vielle cloche qui sonne...

Fuyant tes sournoises revanches
"Je veux me perdre dans les branches
Et tu ne me retiendras pas...
Tu me quitteras à l'orée
Ecoutant, avec l'adorée
S'eloigner le bruit de ses pas"...

W.Hohenfelsen
St Petersbourg
Novembre 1913.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 16, 2010, 05:07:38 AM
indifference

C'est en marchant par la contrée
un jour que je t'ai rencontrée
Comme l'on dit - au coin d'un bois...

De bleuets tes mains étaient fleuries
Et le gazouillis des fontaines
Semblai murmurer dans ta voix...

Tu chantais un refrain d'automne...
Un refrain lent et monotone
J'aimais tes longs sourcils arqués...

Mais blasé, j'aimais d'avantage
Que, tel un oiseau de passage
Tu glissas sans me remarquer....

W.Hohenfelsen.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on May 16, 2010, 10:52:44 AM
Thank you for the wonderful poems! May I ask where you found them? :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 16, 2010, 12:43:41 PM
In the book of Jacques Ferrand.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on May 16, 2010, 04:59:15 PM
Thank you Alexandre :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on May 16, 2010, 10:13:06 PM
May I ask Sara Araújo, where did you find the letter to Jean Cocteau from N Paley? She writes very eloquently
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on May 17, 2010, 02:56:19 PM
From the Jean-Noel Liaut's book, "Natalie Paley: Un Princesse en Exil". I have been trying to write all the letters I've found from Natalie into my website. There aren't many yet, but you can go and check them if you want.  :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on May 17, 2010, 02:57:36 PM
Agonie

Elle disait:"je veux par les
Sentiers ombrageux m'en aller
Pour ne voir et n'aimer personne...
Me sentir delivrer enfin
Et n'entendre dans le lointain
Que la vielle cloche qui sonne...

Fuyant tes sournoises revanches
"Je veux me perdre dans les branches
Et tu ne me retiendras pas...
Tu me quitteras à l'orée
Ecoutant, avec l'adorée
S'eloigner le bruit de ses pas"...

W.Hohenfelsen
St Petersbourg
Novembre 1913.


I wonder to whom did he write this one... there's not much information about Vladimir's love life...
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 18, 2010, 01:15:04 AM
In "Remember deRussie" Princess said her son had his first love during stay in Crimea.

Some of soes poems express this feeling

"A la poursuite de l'amour"
"Ronde amoureaux"
"Idylle"
"Amour au milieu de l'Hiver"
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on May 18, 2010, 02:55:14 PM
Hello everyone, this is one more from him in French too :)

Je murmure à la flamme
Les chagrins de mon âme
Tous mes petits secrets
L'heure sans violence
Fait monter du silence
Des murmures discrets...

Pourtant je suis heureuse
Quand douillette et frileuse
Je m'assoies près du feu
Mais je sens quelque chose
Dont je ne sais la cause
Et qui me trouble un peu

Malgré moi ma pensée
S'enfuie comme enlacée
Par un vague désir...
Vers un vague plaisir...
Je suis toute songeuse...
Si j'étais-amoureuse ?


I don't know the title but if you need any translation about a text, don't hesitate to ask me because I'm French... His poetry are really beautifull :)
See you ;)
Severine
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 19, 2010, 01:00:16 AM
The poem's called "Chanson de Thérèse"

Par les soirs de décembre
Quand tout dort dans la chambre
Et quand l'âtre rougeoie
J'aime entendre la bise
Chanter sa plainte exquise
D'une lointaine voix...

Je murmure à la flamme
Les chagrins de mon âme
Tous mes petits secrets
L'heure sans violence
Fait monter du silence
Des murmures discrets...

Pourtant je suis heureuse
Quand douillette et frileuse
Je m'assoies près du feu
Mais je sens quelque chose
Dont je ne sais la cause
Et qui me trouble un peu

Malgré moi ma pensée
S'enfuie comme enlacée
Par un vague désir...
Vers un vague plaisir...
Je suis toute songeuse...
Si j'étais-amoureuse ?

It lacks a first Strophe.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: matushka on May 19, 2010, 05:08:15 AM
This last one is really good. Is sounds a little like Verlaine, does'nt it? The others are more from a debutant.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 20, 2010, 10:29:10 AM
Le Chemineau

Pourquoi sangloter en silence,
Sachant, que dans son vide immense
Mn coeur n'a pas compris ton coeur?

Mon âme, vois-tu , est trop triste
Trop vague et trop egoiste
Pour s'etonner de ta douleur...

Pein d'une volonté maussade
Je vais, mystériieux nomade
Vers un but de gloire et d'encens...

La bise gémit sur ma route
Elle ne veut pas que j'écoute

La plainte des autres passants...

W.Hohenfelsen
Novembre 1913
St. Petersbourg
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 22, 2010, 11:51:42 AM
Vieillesse

Quand les jours ont coulé dans le chemin des âges
Faisant de l'âme sombre un rayonnant crystal
Et que l'homme epuise dans la lutte du mal
Croit voir enfin le vrai de tous ces faux mirages

Alors avec sa main atrocement profonde
Qui dans un froid d'oubli, a les griffes du temps
La mort dans un rictus efface tout le nina
Pour ne pas lui laisser ce qui fut un instant
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 23, 2010, 03:14:37 AM
(http://image83.webshots.com/83/2/0/25/2005200250106516014UcChhm_ph.jpg[/img
[img]http://image76.webshots.com/76/2/40/87/2414240870106516014dViKrc_ph.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on May 25, 2010, 05:48:56 AM
(http://s12.radikal.ru/i185/1005/c1/feea92515ebet.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s12.radikal.ru/i185/1005/c1/feea92515ebe.jpg.html)


(http://s56.radikal.ru/i154/1005/15/f9f1b6fd61a9t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s56.radikal.ru/i154/1005/15/f9f1b6fd61a9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on May 25, 2010, 06:01:36 AM

(http://s003.radikal.ru/i201/1005/67/4edfe23644a7t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s003.radikal.ru/i201/1005/67/4edfe23644a7.jpg.html)


(http://s14.radikal.ru/i187/1005/94/fd019836613at.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s14.radikal.ru/i187/1005/94/fd019836613a.jpg.html)


(http://s005.radikal.ru/i209/1005/b4/275ec228eb49t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s005.radikal.ru/i209/1005/b4/275ec228eb49.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Alexandre64 on May 25, 2010, 12:00:44 PM
wonderful picture, thank you
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on May 25, 2010, 09:55:28 PM

(http://s003.radikal.ru/i201/1005/67/4edfe23644a7t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s003.radikal.ru/i201/1005/67/4edfe23644a7.jpg.html)


(http://s14.radikal.ru/i187/1005/94/fd019836613at.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s14.radikal.ru/i187/1005/94/fd019836613a.jpg.html)


(http://s005.radikal.ru/i209/1005/b4/275ec228eb49t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s005.radikal.ru/i209/1005/b4/275ec228eb49.jpg.html)


Such wonderful pictures and most are new to me! Thank you so much for posting them Bednayaliza! :) May I ask where you found them?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on May 26, 2010, 03:36:41 AM
Yes, plaase look hear you will find more   http://www.nashaepoha.ru/?page=obj85299 (http://www.nashaepoha.ru/?page=obj85299)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on May 26, 2010, 04:11:22 AM
I think they must be of Vladimir in Corps des Pages uniform.

Ann
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on May 26, 2010, 08:07:04 AM
Wonderful pictures! Thank you for the website, it's absolutely perfect!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 26, 2010, 08:13:44 AM
Yes it is!! i love love the pictures of Constantin Constantinovich and Sergei Mikhailovich *0*!!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on May 26, 2010, 08:30:38 AM
Beautiful photos!

I think they must be of Vladimir in Corps des Pages uniform.

Ann

Ann, exactly. Corps des Pages uniform at all photos (common uniform, white summer shirt, greatcoat, etc...)

Only the one photo where Vladimir is sitting alone - not Corps des Pages. This is War time (1916) and Vladimir here is Poruchik of the Guard's Hussar of HIM Regiment.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on May 26, 2010, 08:43:33 AM
Indeed.

Does anyone know who is the thickset elderly gentleman in the picture with Vladimir in corps des Pages summer shirt?

Ann
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on May 26, 2010, 08:59:11 AM
Indeed.

Does anyone know who is the thickset elderly gentleman in the picture with Vladimir in corps des Pages summer shirt?

Ann

This is his mentor/teacher from the Corps of Pages, Officer (Lieutenant Colonel) A.N. Fenu (1873-1954). He was teacher of the Corps des Pages and then (1917) it's director. Emigrated and died in Finland.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on May 26, 2010, 09:18:54 AM
Not that elderly then - could still be under 40 depending on when in Vladimir's Corps des Pages career the picture was taken. However, thick moustaches like that one put years on people.

Ann
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Nicolá De Valerón on May 26, 2010, 09:43:05 AM
Ann, picture is taken in 1913 during Vladimir's studies. Fenu at that time was 40 and he was a Lieutenant Colonel (1913). He looks like a typical 40-years old Lieutenant Colonel;). I don't see any contradictions here. Btw, in 1914 he was promoted to Colonel (then in 1917 director of the Corps) and ended his service with this rank.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Kalafrana on May 26, 2010, 09:46:01 AM
Forty-year-olds looked older then. In fact, Fenu looks not unlike my grandfather, born in 1878 and a sergeant in the Royal Engineers, at a similar age. Just to ram home the point, my grandfather was 50 when my father was born, and in photographs with his children he looks grandfather far more than father.

Ann
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on May 26, 2010, 10:19:26 AM
Thanks for sharing the photos, bednaya liza, I had not seen quite a few before.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sitka on May 26, 2010, 08:07:15 PM
Yes, plaase look hear you will find more   http://www.nashaepoha.ru/?page=obj85299 (http://www.nashaepoha.ru/?page=obj85299)

Thanks for the website, it's great! :D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 10, 2010, 10:52:02 AM
Natasha  Modeling

(http://i45.tinypic.com/1zmmtkp.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 17, 2010, 08:45:35 AM
Olga

(http://i46.tinypic.com/2i7ww2p.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: THERRY on June 17, 2010, 08:59:39 AM
Too bad this picture is so small  :(
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 17, 2010, 09:10:56 AM
yes , but soon it will appear in a bigger size. That always happens, is just wait and see ;-)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: susana on June 19, 2010, 10:45:55 PM
This is a query from a previous page: am I to understand that Pcss Irina Romanov b. 1934 was actually the daughter of a Monbrisson and being therefore born into a Romanov marriage was only legally a Romanov?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 22, 2010, 06:34:59 AM
Natalia with Charles Boyer:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAOIyyMWRcEf3vGNbf7uU-CJY-idtjEq5yRNq9JXOE75DSCM56FmgbX3vkkWLxmeD-4lA8EonEX2XOnuMmKBKGecAm1T1UNBCOgPH_x2lbOaRcDQi3pgLCElu.jpg)

And with Gabriel Signoret:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAJPYevlCIlqgmae3Vak9nyyrkqTzH7pgVGsTq3gq5SNYWtfuGD8KNwTYW-EZBNRlr_UiNOaoDRDVn4vjuyZlTLoAm1T1UKQ2IExXoo4GmaL4sySVfmXunC1Y.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 28, 2010, 06:17:07 PM
And I still can't believe this exists!  :) Natalie with Salvador Dali:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAHTZK2mWY6ZmEwmjFQoorKGiIgTlFgzKyDU4MHZqsmJ0zivb6DsYjRyq3RIoXjVyvBIMlmU4w0cSHLny3pTsqqgAm1T1UM6E2GdA0fXgld9cqISbHAhEcriq.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on June 28, 2010, 08:11:50 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/watermark/hpqscan0032-1.jpg)
Olga with her son Alexander
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on June 29, 2010, 04:07:07 PM
Madeleine Pochetat holding a very small Irina Paley

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/paley/Ferrand%20Book/hpqscan0152-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on August 06, 2010, 07:48:14 AM
Olga Paley (Hohenfelsen then)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/Rarefind/pal19019.jpg)

I think she is pregnant with Irina there.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on August 06, 2010, 10:21:25 AM
I think she may be pregnant as well in that photo. Wonderful photo thanks for posting.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on September 01, 2010, 10:15:37 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/inpaley1911-1.jpg)
Nathalie and Irina Paley
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 02, 2010, 03:53:50 AM
Olga Paley
(http://s57.radikal.ru/i158/1005/30/78f5a19b95c5.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 02, 2010, 04:19:18 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/inpaley1911-1.jpg)
Nathalie and Irina Paley

A truly amazing picture! It really shows how close they were when they were children!
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 03, 2010, 02:30:32 AM
Irina Pavlovna
(http://s53.radikal.ru/i142/1005/67/4dcab86869a6.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 06, 2010, 05:34:17 AM
Olga Paley
(http://s15.radikal.ru/i189/1005/0a/20ab10286693.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 07, 2010, 06:35:14 AM
Natalia Pavlovna
(http://i035.radikal.ru/1005/15/4ceb9160ddf0.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on September 07, 2010, 07:21:16 AM
Olga Paley
http://s15.radikal.ru/i189/1005/0a/20ab10286693.jpg (http://s15.radikal.ru/i189/1005/0a/20ab10286693.jpg)

Had been posted at this thread before,page18:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=672.255 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=672.255)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 07, 2010, 08:19:25 AM
Mostly of the pictures of the Paley found in places such as Livejournal another russian journals are taken from here so that s why its hard to finhd new ones no repeated here.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on September 07, 2010, 09:09:46 AM
Yes, but you can still find something new - sometimes.;)

 Honestly I've got some strange feeling  that every time I post anything on this forum - it's repeated - even if it's not, like it was last time with Vera Konstantinovna's picture. And the others can repeat pictures many times over and over - and nobody notices that, that's sad... Even in this topic of Paley's are really  A LOT repeated photographs.
I only regret not checking that before. Sorry, my mistake.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 07, 2010, 09:14:06 AM
if this wasnt a ultra busy forum, i think mods would have more time to delete repeated images as i do in the forums where i moderate.

Also, this is THE ultimate source on inet about royal images. I have accounts in livejournal and live inet and mostly if the images were taken from here, except a few cases
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on September 07, 2010, 09:32:38 AM
if this wasnt a ultra busy forum, i think mods would have more time to delete repeated images as i do in the forums where i moderate.



In old threads I always delete repeated images. Well, I shall do the same with 'new' ones.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 07, 2010, 09:39:56 AM
Really?. Well maybe because the forum is so big and has sometimes different mods  for each royal section i ve never noticed that. Its nice to know that someone is doing the job (as Alixz )
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on September 07, 2010, 12:01:22 PM
Really?. Well maybe because the forum is so big and has sometimes different mods  for each royal section i ve never noticed that. Its nice to know that someone is doing the job (as Alixz )

I don't only spread my "fave" - please don't double pictures and so on - as someone probably think...I also try to keep order at my moderating area. Every day.

Back to topic.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 10, 2010, 04:17:35 AM
I really like this one of Natalie:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAALJzDAImN_3UTC4yYJSjhytUtUdTZXGBQdsIs-8M2psK3O4qPcBCBQR40iTFhO1idq8YVJ174r0NleP4oQMCZyEAm1T1UMVp7eLgDjrqt6lJIDylJiF4eAD5.jpg)

She really looks like a Princess.  :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on September 16, 2010, 09:30:25 AM
Sorry if its repeated


Natalia in color

(http://s40.radikal.ru/i088/1001/9d/e56eac183ca3.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 17, 2010, 04:50:12 AM
A fabulous Mainbocher creation!  :)

Here's another one around the same time, but a little more relaxed. It shows Natalie on vacation in Jamaica with her second husband, John Chapman Wilson, his supposed lover, Noël Coward, as well as Coward's wife who would become one of Natalie's closest friend. I'm not sure who the other man is.

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAGIA1EkjLLNyRA8ADZTJHUoXeF27CmIQV1YjdF3KdnOAYGNgvH9Us-JfgKqHaG36cEA4E1G93OoiYbuHDVHBNBAAm1T1UBg-UNycA1hhq9MEdSVnacvJuvG-.jpg)

Noël Coward was actually  inspired by Natalie to create the character of Joanna in one of his short stories, "Nature Studies".
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashdean on September 18, 2010, 02:41:34 PM
A fabulous Mainbocher creation!  :)

Here's another one around the same time, but a little more relaxed. It shows Natalie on vacation in Jamaica with her second husband, John Chapman Wilson, his supposed lover, Noël Coward, as well as Coward's wife who would become one of Natalie's closest friend. I'm not sure who the other man is.

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAGIA1EkjLLNyRA8ADZTJHUoXeF27CmIQV1YjdF3KdnOAYGNgvH9Us-JfgKqHaG36cEA4E1G93OoiYbuHDVHBNBAAm1T1UBg-UNycA1hhq9MEdSVnacvJuvG-.jpg)

Noël Coward was actually  inspired by Natalie to create the character of Joanna in one of his short stories, "Nature Studies".
Noel Coward was never married.Cole Porters wife Linda Lee was a great friend of Nathalie Paley.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on September 19, 2010, 05:08:04 AM
My mistake.  :)

But the person in the picture is Noël Coward, since he was the one who had a house in Jamaica. So now I don't know who the other woman is.  :D Here's another picture of them, a few years later:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAABzRVCKRrgrg6DkoZh_qk3jaDFhOM9SJBM0eHLoopVqEeKLQYkEIY_bB6xBBHG1XeSLBOiklI1ZISbIrDjESRs0Am1T1UMKXkc3FVWJpjFR23As8rIKvDW8q.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on September 30, 2010, 12:38:39 PM
(http://s43.radikal.ru/i102/1009/3b/03a006e4ba54.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on September 30, 2010, 12:40:05 PM
(http://s08.radikal.ru/i181/1009/31/1a0a1442655d.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)

Vladimir
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on September 30, 2010, 12:41:55 PM
(http://i029.radikal.ru/1009/6f/0a04ef26c44c.jpg) (http://www.radikal.ru)

Vladimir
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on September 30, 2010, 04:14:03 PM
This is what I found on wikipedia and elsewhere from Vladimir Paley. Sorry I didn't find whole version of this poetries... It's just some extract


"A mes petites sœurs

Pendant des mois, des ans et des siècles entiers,
Tandis qu’au fond du ciel, Anges, vous sanglotiez,
La femme a pu se plaindre et l’homme a pu maudire –
Mais les petits enfants n’ont cessé de sourire!"


"C'était le bon temps de l'Empire !
Hélas, tout va de mal en pire
Où sont mes seize ans d'autrefois,
Que j'eus sous Napoléon Trois ?
La République m'a fait don
D'un rhumatisme et d'un bâton"


"Comment cicatriser la plaie
Comment oublier la tristesse,
Comment commencer un nouveau voyage,
Si vous n'êtes pas là ?"
(March 1918)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: katmaxoz on October 04, 2010, 05:21:36 PM
Here's another poem from Vladimir Paley. An ode to Tennis

ТЕННИС

О, благородная и светлая игра!
Когда придет весны желанная пора
И вновь покроются сады и парки тенью,
Как хорошо тогда предаться увлеченью

Игрой стремительной на court’е золотом!
В погоне трепетной за резвым прыгуном,
Люблю я юных тел красивый строй движений,
И service бешеный, и ряд шутливых прений.

Издалека видны, все в белом, игроки,
Ракетой легкою продолжен взмах руки,
И голоса девиц, подхваченные эхом,
Звучат таинственным и лучезарным смехом!..

«Play?» - «Ready!» - И летит чрез сетку быстрый мяч.
Люблю я handicap и очень строгий match,
Когда все зрители следят с немым вниманьем
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
О, жизнь! От горестей дневных к воспоминаньям,
От радости души к отраве прежних мук
Кидаешь в руки ты все нас из старых рук -
И мы, томимые двуличностью мгновений,
Познали твой удар и сетку преткновений!..

Владимир Палей
Крым. Август 1915

and a google translation

TENNIS

Oh, noble and light game!
When it's time to spring a desired
And once again covered with gardens and parks shadow
How well then indulge passion

Rapid game on court'e gold!
In pursuit of anxious for the high-spirited jumper,
I love the beautiful young bodies build movements
And the service mad, and a number of humorous debate.

Visible from a distance, all in white, the players
Rocket easily extended swing arm,
And the voice of girls caught up the echo,
Sound mysterious and radiant with laughter! ..

«Play?» - «Ready!» - And flies through the grid of quick ball.
I love the handicap and a very strict match,
When all the viewers watching with mute attentively
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Oh, life! From sorrow to the reminiscences of day,
The joy of the soul to poison the old pangs
Toss you into the hands of all of us of the old hands -
And we Tormented duplicity moments
Know your stroke and mesh block! ..

http://duchesselisa.livejournal.com/62911.html#cutid1

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on October 25, 2010, 10:28:26 AM
(http://i024.radikal.ru/1010/18/0d5b348512d9t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/i024.radikal.ru/1010/18/0d5b348512d9.jpg.html)

Natalie
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 13, 2010, 06:14:22 PM
Olga & Vladimir

(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7605/10409870a.jpg) (http://img529.imageshack.us/i/10409870a.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on November 14, 2010, 09:58:17 AM
Natalie in "The Private Life of Don Juan" (1934)

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAOdniREkCkjvWdtg3GJpGCcwpEUD8HrnvENFx9F3xm0q2JqCk4NIdCBT6N7hC0fCrUPp9v0e4dBVWVCdbJwJCGkAm1T1UG-sG1ypxTRzu60fm2WBycN3Jd-B.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on November 14, 2010, 10:03:51 AM
Portrait of  Natasha

(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/2305/l10115260lr1.jpg) (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/l10115260lr1.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on November 29, 2010, 04:26:06 PM
I found this extract from the last and sadly poem of Vladimir Paley:

"His soul with tired wings
will fly up, murdered, to the Creator"

Is anybody knows the whole version or other poems?
Thank you :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Tsarya on December 17, 2010, 01:26:00 PM
Thank you to those who have posted Vladimir's poetry. I'm doing some research on google but I just found one of his poem.

If it does interest someone, here you go: http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/antichrist-a-poem-by-prince-st-vladimir-paley-the-new-martyr-1897-1918/ (http://02varvara.wordpress.com/2010/02/06/antichrist-a-poem-by-prince-st-vladimir-paley-the-new-martyr-1897-1918/)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 18, 2010, 02:33:31 PM
Natalia & Brian Aherne

(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2540/1942250.jpg) (http://img525.imageshack.us/i/1942250.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Olgasha on December 20, 2010, 05:49:58 AM
Vladimir Pavlovich
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/484/720939690.jpg)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on December 20, 2010, 04:52:08 PM
Natalia on the beach

(http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/6203/1942205.jpg) (http://img69.imageshack.us/i/1942205.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on December 21, 2010, 06:17:10 AM
Love what she's wearing in her hair!  :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on December 28, 2010, 02:40:07 AM
Irina and Natalia in 1914

(http://www.picatom.com/1r/irnat-1-th.jpg) (http://www.picatom.com/1r/irnat-1.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on January 09, 2011, 04:35:13 PM
Here, another poetry from Vladimir Paley that I found:


THE GREAT LENT


Dark somber vestments… soft gentle singing…
Glowing reflection of red vigil lights…
O God Almighty! Grant me endurance:
Heaven and hell battle deep in my heart…

Whisper of prayers… Sternness of faces…
Sonorous censers and pale blue smoke…
O God Almighty! Grant me Thy mercy:
Lightly as incense I rise unto Thee!

Out of the church yet again I shall forfeit
Those solemn promises given to Thee –
Fortify me in this combat eternal,
Purify, Holy, my sin-laden soul!

Give me resolve to speak bravely and boldly
When I am caught in life’s prickly embrace.
Dark somber vestments… Evening twilight…
Yellow wax candles’ sorrowing flame…
- Prince Vladimir Paley

http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/poetry/poetry_lord.html (http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/poetry/poetry_lord.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 11, 2011, 04:47:56 PM
Natalia & Brian Aherne

 http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/2540/1942250.jpg
 

Yesterday i saw this movie (Sylvia Scarlett) and i loved it!

I wonder if someone knows if  that s Natalia s real voice or was dubbed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HafEh7S45hE
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on January 11, 2011, 06:44:17 PM
I think it's her real voice, dubbing still sounded very awkward back then. :D It also sounds very similar to her voice in Folies Bergère:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89gKz29rqs8
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 11, 2011, 06:58:48 PM
Then she had a very lovely voice! ^^

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on February 16, 2011, 12:38:43 PM
Irina Paley (looking very much like her grandmother Maria) with her son Michael:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAHMrLyAui7_h5uaXs43qhy79YoSZiuadGI9rI6k4is_nCvqw7jcOobSFKI-sX0KCimEYNZFWtyXWCeKZP6LcJJ8Am1T1UIVmB538Oj2KCxCs5kEfdkPxdu3x.jpg)

And on the beach:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAOSFOZLHkEi1ck0n2amlAQTtxPDRNjL3xKmlz10ooAt-t2SY0WBqyHMKM6_U1ygQ65U63JGv_YrqnYk_le33T_EAm1T1UFNoCqorX5x-GNySF5eTDrrAoYNm.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on March 28, 2011, 08:40:34 AM
Hi -
I've recently become very interested in the GD Paul and the Paleys and was wondering if anything is known about the relationship between Olga and Eric von Pistolkors before GD Paul came on the scene. Were they unhappily married to begin with, or was it a case where she was content with von Pistolkors until she discovered her true soulmate in GD Paul?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on March 28, 2011, 11:02:24 AM
I've read that von Pistohlkors had lovers, perhaps that contributed somehow. Also Olga was known for her flirtation, before Paul, she had flirted with Grand Duke Vladimir and some gossip at the time suggests that Olga just wanted a better social position, although I don't believe that. At least not entirely.  ;D
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: José on May 05, 2011, 08:14:22 AM
A fabulous Mainbocher creation!  :)

Here's another one around the same time, but a little more relaxed. It shows Natalie on vacation in Jamaica with her second husband, John Chapman Wilson, his supposed lover, Noël Coward, as well as Coward's wife who would become one of Natalie's closest friend. I'm not sure who the other man is.

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAGIA1EkjLLNyRA8ADZTJHUoXeF27CmIQV1YjdF3KdnOAYGNgvH9Us-JfgKqHaG36cEA4E1G93OoiYbuHDVHBNBAAm1T1UBg-UNycA1hhq9MEdSVnacvJuvG-.jpg)

Noël Coward was actually  inspired by Natalie to create the character of Joanna in one of his short stories, "Nature Studies".

Which one is Chapman ?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on May 05, 2011, 04:48:31 PM
The man between Coward and Natalie.  :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on May 21, 2011, 08:04:18 AM
A link to a blog where you can download "Folies Bergére":

http://kebekmac.blogspot.com/2011/04/1935-lhomme-des-folies-bergere.html

And a picture of Natalie in her early career, I think:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/OgAAAAEvMhrU-wXoYLUkwnrbrctDLoROyC2uDfUoWU9vAp438rjb8y99gWUS1e6jWdKqo8a26qq5RQzAxGm6hjePB5AAm1T1UM_4VL5k5ESUJQ5Ssnmn6-na_6DG.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on June 25, 2011, 10:35:37 AM
Natalie at the beach :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/157825natatbeach.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=157825natatbeach.jpg)

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/3348891133826.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=3348891133826.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on June 25, 2011, 12:47:31 PM
i posted the second one in page 33
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 28, 2011, 03:52:32 AM
Natalie with her second husband John C. Wilson:

(http://images.orkut.com/orkut/photos/PQAAAHI5VjNQGdYNq99GyxXLPnAwoGaSMm_lFg3woZjbJMgnyCIWVeT3fSZBlOuNB_jdBhLi6Fg0pbFC1sUQ5_A7TLAAm1T1UOLsQRUuSHemJnz1qrjdkRzCqaQD.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on July 02, 2011, 05:06:56 AM
Irene Paley with her son Michel :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/360601irenemicha.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=360601irenemicha.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bestfriendsgirl on July 02, 2011, 07:38:58 AM
She really resembles Grand Duke Paul in this photo.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on July 08, 2011, 04:37:49 PM
Nathalie :

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/9861451133931.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=9861451133931.jpg)

(http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/314988np.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=314988np.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on July 27, 2011, 04:05:53 PM
A passage from Prince Felix Yussupov from his memoirs where he mentions the Paleys:

"Dmitri's sister, the Grand Duchess Marie, had married Prince William of Sweden. Later she divorced him to marry an officer in the Guards, Prince Poutiatin, whom she also divorced. I often saw Dmitri's half brother and his two half sisters, the children of his father, the Grand Duke Paul Alexandrovich by his morganatic marriage to Madame Pistohlcors. They were near neighbors of ours in Tsarskoe Selo; the Grand Duke Paul's two daughters were talented amateur actresses. Their brother Vladimir was also extremely gifted. If he had not been brutally murdered in Siberia with several other members of the Imperial family, there is no doubt that he would have been one of the best poets of our time. Some of his works might be compared to those of Pushkin. His beautiful and intelligent eldest sister Irene was very like her grandmother, the Empress Marie, wife of Tsar Alexander II. She married my brother-in-law, Prince Theodore, and had two children by him, Michael and Irene. Vladimir's younger sister, Natalie, was radiantly pretty and had all the charming grace of a playful kitten. She married the French couturier Lucien Lelong, and afterward an American, Mr. J. C. Wilson."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 02, 2012, 01:23:46 PM
Does anyone have photos of Irene Romanov, the 'suppose' daughter of Feodor Alexandrovich and Princess Irina Paley?

Irina began an affair with Count Hubert de Monbrison (15 August 1892 – 14 April 1981) during her marriage to Feodor, and bore Hubert a daughter Irene Romanov on 7 May 1934, while still married to Feodor. She and Feodor were divorced on 22 July 1936.
In some sources however that Irene was Feodor's daughter. a caboose baby can happen you know.

I'm sure Feodor was hurt when his wife had an affair and bore some other man's child. or their love was wearing thin and they grow apart, i really don't know, but anyways any info and photos of little Irene?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on March 02, 2012, 07:23:08 PM
In the recent Danish documentary about Royal Jewels there is a group photo of Prince Fedor with his son Mikhail, daughter (at least - official daughter) Irina, and his sister Irina with her husband Felix Yusupov.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 12, 2012, 05:18:20 PM
dear Sveta, do you have to photo? :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on March 13, 2012, 06:40:47 AM
dear Sveta, do you have to photo? :)

I do :). A screenshot

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v433/feomarie/____.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on March 13, 2012, 12:53:04 PM
THANK YOU SOO MUCH!!!!! :)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on March 13, 2012, 06:34:32 PM
Here's a larger but not better quality version of the photo. Sorry, my scanner is shot. I need a new one. :(

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/Ferrand%20Book/hpqscan0036-1.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on April 16, 2012, 08:29:30 AM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture103.jpg)]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on April 16, 2012, 08:32:46 AM
Vladimir
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on April 16, 2012, 08:33:22 AM
(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture101.jpg)[]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on April 16, 2012, 08:33:51 AM
Princess Paley as a young girl
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on April 16, 2012, 08:35:34 AM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture102.jpg)]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on April 16, 2012, 08:36:05 AM
Princess Paley in 1896
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on June 22, 2012, 04:28:48 PM
A photo album from Beinecke with pictures of Natalie:

http://beinecke.library.yale.edu/dl_crosscollex/SetsSearchExecXC.asp?srchtype=ITEM
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on July 07, 2012, 02:50:13 PM

Vladimir?

(http://s019.radikal.ru/i635/1207/13/82faed5cb1c2t.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s019.radikal.ru/i635/1207/13/82faed5cb1c2.jpg.html)

(http://s014.radikal.ru/i328/1207/36/4bc15455cdebt.jpg) (http://radikal.ru/F/s014.radikal.ru/i328/1207/36/4bc15455cdeb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: rachel5a on October 17, 2012, 10:47:59 AM
when GD Paul and Olga were exiled from Russia did her children from first marriage go with her ?Or did they stay in S Petersburg with their father?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: ashanti01 on October 19, 2012, 12:34:23 AM
Olga's children remained in Russia with their father. I don't believe it was ever even an option for her to take her children into exile with her.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on October 28, 2012, 06:36:51 AM
Natalie Paley and Serge Lifar:

(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7636/nova61i.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/nova61i.jpg/)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on November 13, 2012, 04:01:35 PM
Olga's children remained in Russia with their father. I don't believe it was ever even an option for her to take her children into exile with her.

Did they have any relationship with their step-siblings Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri? I was surprised to read that Marianne was present, along with Dmitri, at Rasputin's murder.

"Marianne von Pistohlkors was allegedly one of two women and several men present in the palace belonging to Felix Yussupov on the night that Rasputin was lured there in December 1916. 'Malanya's also taking part,' Yussupov wrote to his wife Princess Irina of Russia in the weeks before the murder. Pistohlkors' nickname was Malanya.

She, like Grand Duke Dimitri, was later arrested by the Tsar's secret police following the murder. However, the Tsar later ordered her release. Sympathies were on Pistohlkors' side, according to her mother's memoirs, Memories of Russia 1916-1919. 'When we arrived at 8 Theatre Square, where Marianne lived, we were stopped by two soldiers who let us through only after taking down our names. All the highest society was at Marianne's! Some ladies she barely knew arrived in order to express sympathy with her. Officers came up to kiss her hand.'

None of the male co-conspirators ever publicly denounced Pistohlkors or the other woman suspected of involvement, ballerina and film star Vera Karalli. Neither were these women prosecuted in the subsequent legal trials.

According to one author, the Tsar kept their names out of the case because he did not want more public displays of sympathy for the murderers of Rasputin. He also knew that his sickly uncle Grand Duke Paul was very upset by Dimitri's involvement in the murder and was taking badly the Tsar's decision to exile Dmitri to the Persian front. The Tsar presumably did not want to add to the Grand Duke's suffering by also charging his stepdaughter."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: grandduchessella on November 13, 2012, 04:05:41 PM
Beautiful portrait
Marianne managed to flee Soviet Russia?

Yes, she died in 1976, though I can't remember exactly there.

A bit about Marianne:

"Marianne and Nicholas von Zarnekau managed to escape Russia some time after 1923 with the help of her first husband, Peter Dournovo, who arranged for their passage to Finland. They settled in Belgium, and Marianne is mentioned in Anthony Summer's book The File on the Tsar:

'Countess de Zarnekau, an ex-patriate living in Brussels, told how in about 1923 a nun arrived at their home in Moscow and announced mysteriously that the Tsar and all the family were alive 'somewhere close to the border'. She asked for, and was given, wooly socks to warm the Imperial feet. Those who had been able to deal with the little matter of the Tsar's rescue were now apparently having trouble in getting him the right size in socks.'

In 1930, Marianne divorced Count von Zarnekau, her third husband, and launched her acting career in Europe under the stage name 'Mariana Fiory'. In February 1930, she appeared at the Theatre Mathurins in Paris, starring in the role of a German soldier's grieving fiancee in The Man I Killed, a dramatization of the war novel L'Homme que j'ai tue. Playwright Maurice Rostrand reportedly wrote the play specifically for Marianne. The show was a hit and won glowing reviews. Marianne went on to Rome, to star opposite Emma Gramatica, a popular Italian film actress of the 1930s.

Mariana Fiory, the former Countess von Zarnekau, arrived in the United States in 1936. She first appeared on the New York stage in February 1937 as the lead in Michel Dulud's play Dans le Noir at the Barbizon-Plaza theatre. Mariana then appeared in The Shining Hour with a stock company in New Hampshire, and apparently decided to settle in the U.S.

Through a friendship with Wally Castlebarco, the daughter of composer Arturo Toscanini, the ex-Countess was signed to appear on NBC. The Schenectady NY Gazette for January 7, 1938 reported 'One of Europe's noted actresses, Mariana Fiory, once a member of the Russian Royal family, is to make her first appearance in American radio when she plays in the Radio Guild on WJZ-NBC at 2. The production is Ibsen's Rosmersholm.'

In late 1938 Marianne played 'Tessie Konstantin' in the Broadway production of the satire Waltz in Goose Step at the Hudson Theatre.

The Brooklyn NY Daily Eagle spotlighted her with a brief interview on November 5, 1938. 'The Countess Mariana Zarnekau, step-daughter of Grand Duke Paul and cousin of the late Russian Czar, scorns titles, knows nothing about dictators, and has no quarrels with Stalinists, but 'adores' the stage and the Brooklyn waterfront.'

Marianne told the reporter she was 'very, very ready' to discourse at length on the worthlessness of royal connections. 'What did the revolution do for me? Why it set me free, and gave me the chance to fulfill a lifelong ambition to enter the old Imperial Dramatic School and study for the stage.'

In October 1939, Hollywood columnist May Mann caught up with Mariana Fiory at a smart Russian perfume bar on Fifth Avenue and heard a similar story. 'I was too young. I did not know what the revolution was all about. We left our palaces and lived crowded in rooms. We were glad to have our lives. . . . I married Count Zarnekau, and we were terribly poor. All of our properties had been seized and we had nothing. I helped to found the first dramatic school in Communistic Russia. Then I went to Paris and starred many seasons on the stage. . . . This spring I starred in Window Panes. I do not long for the old Russia. America is so much more interesting.'

During World War II Marianne moved to California, where she appeared with Robert Taylor and several Russian actors in the MGM movie Song of Russia (1944), the story of an American symphonic conductor, trapped in Russia during World War II, who helps with the resistance. Marianne plays 'Nina.' Produced by Joseph Pasternak and directed by Gregory Ratoff, Song of Russia premiered in February 1944.

Marianne died on May 14, 1976."
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Svetabel on November 13, 2012, 11:55:14 PM
Olga's children remained in Russia with their father. I don't believe it was ever even an option for her to take her children into exile with her.

Did they have any relationship with their step-siblings Marie Pavlovna and Dmitri? I was surprised to read that Marianne was present, along with Dmitri, at Rasputin's murder.



Marianne as fas as I know was on very friendly terms with Maria and Dmitry. She was quite a star in a society, hignly independent and extravagant woman.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: LisaDavidson on December 23, 2012, 01:54:40 PM
There is no evidence that there were any women guests at the Yousupov Palace on the night of Rasputin's murder. That was why Princess Paley's daugher was released after her arrest.

Dmitri's diaries indicated he did not care for his stepmother until after the Revolution. He was fond of her children with Piskeltors but had complex feelings about the children of his father's 2nd marriage, particularly his half brother Vladimir Paley. How could he not? He basically went without a father for much of the time after Grand Duke Paul became involved with Olga Paley.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 05:43:47 PM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture041_zpsf3d2adb0.jpg)]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 05:44:54 PM
Olga and her first husband
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 05:45:54 PM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture039_zps3fba360b.jpg)]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 05:46:39 PM
Her son from her first marriage, Alexander
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 06:34:51 PM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture043_zpscc5b6799.jpg)]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 06:36:49 PM
Family group of the Paleys, Grand Duke Paul, Olga and her children from her first marriage
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 06:38:08 PM
[(http://i1053.photobucket.com/albums/s477/chrishiggins1980/Picture044_zpsd8eddbbe.jpg)]
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Chris_H on December 23, 2012, 06:39:25 PM
Grand Duke Paul and Olga
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: KarlandZita on January 19, 2013, 08:23:08 AM
Feodor and Irene in Biarritz :

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/906070201202041735131.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=906070201202041735131.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/504402201202041735133.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=504402201202041735133.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/623829201202041735134.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=623829201202041735134.jpg)

(http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/677535201202041735136.jpg) (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=677535201202041735136.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: rachel5a on January 19, 2013, 08:48:42 AM
Did they live in Biarrtz or Paris?
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Sara Araújo on April 09, 2013, 04:46:50 PM
When I saw this picture, I realized that Natalie actually looked a lot like her half-brother Dmitri and her father. Maybe it's because of the dark rings under her eyes:

http://a7.img.v4.skyrock.net/6551/40496551/pics/3140533972_1_6_K5x0MH85.jpg
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on June 30, 2014, 01:49:05 PM
(http://i037.radikal.ru/1406/20/b3e944113065.png) (http://www.radikal.ru) 

The portrait from the museum of Puskhin city
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on June 30, 2014, 01:50:07 PM
(http://s019.radikal.ru/i617/1406/8b/53ead8688df6.png)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on June 30, 2014, 01:51:32 PM
(http://s020.radikal.ru/i718/1406/15/2a2876737d19.jpg)

Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: bednayaliza on June 30, 2014, 01:52:17 PM
(http://s012.radikal.ru/i319/1406/ad/37aa1a8cb4b2.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on January 04, 2015, 01:36:53 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10300765_327885307400411_7156974555839378095_n.jpg?oh=2364ef240f3ddd58568cc70d2e75027e&oe=5539304F&__gda__=1428862711_7df5a91e6799c75fc4022eff43aa2250)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10885614_327430867445855_2826428738056692862_n.jpg?oh=d73f028d6c2e48c8fbc74c2ba3e6fbcf&oe=552783BA&__gda__=1429006338_cf05d50c5776aa849d8c8f29315a2bbc)

Translation is on this page but actually I don't arrive to find it back (thank facebook) : https://www.facebook.com/thelastromanov?fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/thelastromanov?fref=ts) at December 27th.
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Bryndis on November 12, 2015, 08:16:43 PM
(http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_nvi1f5m8II1rh07xwo1_540_zpswnwna92u.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_nvi1f5m8II1rh07xwo1_540_zpswnwna92u.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_nvg1xaQDVC1rh07xwo1_540_zpsffpzoq89.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_nvg1xaQDVC1rh07xwo1_540_zpsffpzoq89.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_noydrvk3Rl1rh07xwo1_500_zps87fmvjuh.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_noydrvk3Rl1rh07xwo1_500_zps87fmvjuh.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_nopm2tgEIi1rh07xwo1_1280_zps1fcivz5p.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_nopm2tgEIi1rh07xwo1_1280_zps1fcivz5p.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_nsbawfEmdI1rh07xwo1_540_zpsslwu8jmn.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_nsbawfEmdI1rh07xwo1_540_zpsslwu8jmn.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_nvfwcdhBwn1rh07xwo1_540_zpsidiqhlux.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_nvfwcdhBwn1rh07xwo1_540_zpsidiqhlux.jpg.html) (http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/t372/joibkb/tumblr_nvfwcdhBwn1rh07xwo2_540_zpsm5ht4gcd.jpg) (http://s1056.photobucket.com/user/joibkb/media/tumblr_nvfwcdhBwn1rh07xwo2_540_zpsm5ht4gcd.jpg.html)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on December 06, 2015, 03:21:06 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7b/5b/7a/7b5b7a0e3be73cf2e2e6841649b5212b.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Ally Kumari on July 23, 2016, 07:14:06 AM
Stunnig photo of Natalia

(https://pp.vk.me/c626927/v626927079/1f3f5/aHZkj3I4sf4.jpg)

From here https://vk.com/representatives_of_the_romanov
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: thebelgianhare on June 20, 2017, 08:53:37 AM
Ally Kumari, bednayaliza, irishgirl84 thank you for these beautiful photographs I have not seen many/most of them before
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: irishgirl84 on July 09, 2017, 07:55:46 AM
Your're welcome :-)

Found on ebay : http://www.ebay.com/itm/201950506397 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/201950506397)
It's about the last book from Wladimir with a dedicate to his sister.
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/9/4/7/3/0/webimg/947092161_o.jpg?nc=636351762509944398)

(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/9/4/7/3/0/webimg/947092721_o.jpg?nc=636351762509944398)

(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/1/4/9/4/7/3/0/webimg/947092857_o.jpg?nc=636351762509944398)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 25, 2017, 03:03:37 PM
Irina and Natalia

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/7cac40a7f12be0271cb480c69cfbc573/tumblr_owsox1oUgV1rh07xwo2_540.png)

(https://68.media.tumblr.com/b6ae41b27a715b2a418185d5e3517cbe/tumblr_owsox1oUgV1rh07xwo1_540.jpg)
Title: Re: The Paleys
Post by: Ally Kumari on September 30, 2017, 01:36:06 PM
Pavel and his daughters

(http://68.media.tumblr.com/9debb382b08bd34d201e70d953e1abc2/tumblr_ox23drxxqh1rh07xwo1_540.jpg)