Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Habsburgs => Topic started by: Marie Valerie on April 17, 2006, 07:21:37 AM

Title: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Marie Valerie on April 17, 2006, 07:21:37 AM
I'd like to know any infos of the surviving children of the last german emperor of the german nation and first emperor of Austria.


Marie Louise ( 1791–1847 ), Empress of the French, Duchess of Parma, married to Napoléon Bonaparte
Ferdinand I. ( 1793–1875 ), Emperor of Austria

Maria Leopoldine ( 1797–1826 ), Empress of Brasil

Caroline ( 1801–1832 ), Queen of Saxony

Franz Karl ( 1802–1878 ), father of Kaiser Franz Joseph I.

Maria Anna ( 1804-1858 )


And pics are very welcome!  ;)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: José on April 17, 2006, 12:41:25 PM
Yopu forgot Maria Clementina (1798-1881).
She married Leopold of B.Sicily and was the mother of the Caroline de Salerno, wife of Henri d'Orléans, duke of Aumale.

I've never seen a picture of hers.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 17, 2006, 01:37:43 PM
Here's two pictures of Empress Marie Louise, with her son Napoleon II:

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/French%20royals/NapoleonIIandMother.jpg)

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/French%20royals/MarieLouiseandyoungNapoleon.jpg)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 17, 2006, 01:42:18 PM
Another of Marie Louise:

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/French%20royals/EmpressMarieLouise.jpg)

And one of Maria Leopoldine:

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Habsburgs/MariaLeopoldine.jpg)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 17, 2006, 01:49:11 PM
Ferdinand I:

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Habsburgs/FerdinandI.jpg)

Franz Karl and Sophie:

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Habsburgs/FranzKarlandSophie.jpg)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Marc on April 17, 2006, 04:35:48 PM
I am interested in pictures of this Maria Anna,Caroline or Franz Karl since there aren't much pictures of them!If someone has PLEASE share it with us-thanks!
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 17, 2006, 04:42:40 PM
Another of Maria Leopoldine:

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Habsburgs/ArchduchessMariaLeopoldine.jpg)

And I think this is Franz Karl  :-?

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Habsburgs/ArchdukeFranzKarl.jpg)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: crazy_wing on April 17, 2006, 05:21:16 PM

Maria Anna never married and I read that there was something wrong with her.  I couldn't exactly remember whats wrong with her but I think she had a dreadful disease that brought scars onto her face.  
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Prince_Lieven on April 17, 2006, 05:23:34 PM
Smallpox perhaps?
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 18, 2006, 06:34:41 AM
Erzherzogin Maria Anna lived in turns in Schloss Hetzendorf and in the Weilburg / Baden near Vienna. She was mentally ill and suffered from an unknown disease for years.

I think all of Franz I.'s daughters had a great resemblance to their mother Maria Theresia. Just look at the shape of their faces ...
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: crazy_wing on April 18, 2006, 09:25:49 PM
Isn't there a story saying that Maria Anna' mother was too friendly with her pets and that diseases from the pets transferred to Maria Anna?  
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on April 19, 2006, 02:41:38 AM
I've never heard of that ...  :-?
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Pierce on April 19, 2006, 10:39:56 AM
I read in a biography of Franz Josef by Alan Palmer that Maria Anna was mentally retarded and deformed, according to the book the family assumed she was this way is because her mother was out walking during her pregnancy and was startled by an escaped orangutang  from the Schonbrunn Palace Zoo. I believe it had more to do with the close kinship between Emperor Franz II and Empress Maria Theresia, they being double first cousins.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: crazy_wing on April 19, 2006, 01:33:43 PM
Thanks for digging out the story.  I couldn't remember the details.  For this reason, Sophie didn't like Sisi taking walks and riding during her pregnancy.  
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: CountessKate on April 20, 2006, 03:34:44 AM
Quote
For this reason, Sophie didn't like Sisi taking walks and riding during her pregnancy.

Royal brides had a hard time taking any exercise until they had delivered the heir and the spare - vigorous walks and riding were thought to impede conception and harm pregnacies.  Marie Antoinette was frequently scolded by her mother Maria Theresia for riding, which in any case looked bad to the French court - as if she couldn't be bothered to take proper care to become pregnant.  

Quote
...the family assumed she was this way is because her mother was out walking during her pregnancy and was startled by an escaped orangutang  from the Schonbrunn Palace Zoo.

This was a very common misconception - the children of the Princesse de Conde who lived during the reign of Louis XIV were all tiny, and the courtiers thought this was because a dwarf at the court had given her a lustful look.  
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Pierce on April 25, 2006, 10:16:54 PM
I would like to know more about Archduchess Leopoldine who became Empress of Brazil, she was supposedly very intelligent and cultured woman. Is it true that her husband Pedro I was abusive to her?
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Paola on May 18, 2006, 12:50:08 PM
Emperor Pedro was abusive to Leopoldine. I read once she had a miscarriage after he kicked her in the womb. She felt much humiliated  by her husband's infidelity (he had several lovers and illegitimate children). Leopoldine died young (29) and broken hearted.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Pierce on May 18, 2006, 02:44:29 PM
Such a sad life for Leopoldine, she deserved a better husband.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Paola on May 23, 2006, 10:28:45 AM

By passing Vienna in 1867, on her way from Trieste(Miramar) to Brussels, Empress Charlotte of Mexico asked her sister in law, Queen Marie Henriette, if they would  lock her in Schloss Hetzendorf,  because she heard it is where they take the insane archduchesses. Maybe Empress Charlotte was thinking of Archduchess Maria Anna who was mentally ill.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Marie Valerie on June 13, 2006, 07:20:04 AM
I'd like to know more about:

Maria Anna ( 1803-1884 )
Princess of Savoie and Empress of Austria  


She was married to the epileptic Emperor Ferdinand I.
and had no children

She must have been a kind-hearted person, for taking care of her ill husband,
I feel sorry for her.


(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs4/habs194.jpg)
Maria Anna


(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs4/habs078b.jpg)
Ferdinand I.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Nathalie on June 13, 2006, 08:47:31 AM
She must had been a pretty sad wife. I. Ferdinand's favouritue thing to do was  to wedge himself in a wastepaper basket and roll over and over like a ball (Ferdinand was sadly retarded with an over-large head with a flat skull and water on the brain)...

For years, doctors had claimed that it was impossible for Ferdinand to beget heirs. Nevertheless, in 1831 a bride was chosen by his father's advisor, Clemens von Metternich (1773-1859, to the right). The unfortunate bride was the plain and virtuous Maria Anna. On the wedding day, sharp-eyed Sophie of Bavaria noted that the bride was "white as linen". She "trembled perceptibly, her voice shook when she spoke, and whenever her eyes rested on the bridegroom, they filled with tears". Even Emperor Franz was heard to murmur at the wedding: "May God have mercy."3  Afterwards, 37-year-old Ferdinand was informed by his uncles about what he was supposed to do in his wedding night. Nevertheless, it is assumed that his marriage remained a marriage in name only. Maria Anna became more a nurse than a wife to Ferdinand. In one night in December 1832 Ferdinand suffered 20 epileptic seizures of such violence that his doctors abandoned all hope for him. But he miraculously recovered, although for a while he had more trouble with speaking and gradually he began having trouble with hearing. Often, Ferdinand could be found standing for hours at his window staring down at passers-by.

After the abdication of her husband, she went living with him in castle Hradschin in Prague, where Ferdinand indulged in his hobbies of botany, heraldry and music. He received the title "Duke of Reichstadt", that had once belonged to his late nephew, Napoleon's only son.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Nathalie on June 13, 2006, 08:54:30 AM
A famous Hungarian writer, Kalman Mikszath has a small anecdote about Maria Anna, when count Forgach told him, that he and count Chotek went to play whist with the embress; the Hungarian count Forgach of course had let Maria Anna to win, but Chotek played as always and won. Later on when she was asked by her husband, which count played better, she replied:
 "Count Chotek was better but so unpleasurable"

:)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on June 13, 2006, 02:06:06 PM
By the way: Just like Archduchess Sophie, Maria Anna had a twin-sister. Her name was Marie Therese and she married a Duke of Parma.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: mardam on June 25, 2006, 02:52:20 PM
Thanks to you, Synnadene,  I found them. Indeed daughters of Franz II (I) 1768-1835

Above: Leopoldine and Klementine
Below: Marie Karoline and Marie Anne

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v733/mardam/sisters.jpg)

Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Yseult on February 26, 2007, 04:34:54 PM
I was making a little research through the board when I found this thread...and I became curious about the lady ;)
Anyone of you knows how felt Marianna about her marriage? She was a gentle nurse to her husband, but I suppose it must have been a hard puff in her life. What after the abdication of Ferdinand? Did she outlived her husband? Was she in good terms with archduchess Sophie?
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: britt.25 on February 27, 2007, 05:44:51 AM
Marie Charlotte, wonderful picture of Maria Anna. She has not little of her father in her features, I think... I did not know that her sister Maria Theresa, who married Karl II. Ludwig of Parma, was her twinsister ;)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on February 27, 2007, 07:08:50 AM
Marie Charlotte, wonderful picture of Maria Anna. She has not little of her father in her features, I think... I did not know that her sister Maria Theresa, who married Karl II. Ludwig of Parma, was her twinsister ;)

Oh, this is not Empress Maria Anna, but Anna Princess of Saxony. Apparently I posted a picture of Maria Anna, deleted it and gave the picture of Anna of Saxony the same name. So it's the same URL, but different pictures.  ;)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: britt.25 on February 27, 2007, 08:14:01 AM
What a strange mistake of me to see Victor Emanuel I in that woman! Now I seem to remember to have seen that portrait before, and yes, it was Anna of Saxony... ::)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: mjabele on March 13, 2009, 08:36:58 PM
Does anyone know anything more specific about this individual?   She was one of the younger daughters of Emperor Francis II of Austria (1768-1835) and ought to have had a prominent public role in consequence, but I can scarcely find out anything about her, and what little there is seems a bit contradictory.   I've read on the one hand that she was deformed and/or mentally retarded, on the other that she was mad, and yet again that she was married to a Galician nobleman, Ioan Drogowski, and might even have had children.   Is it possible that all of these things might have been true simultaneously?
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: britt.25 on March 14, 2009, 04:11:17 AM
Only for you to know, there is already a topic " Empress Maria Theresia and her daughters", where she and her siblings were already discussed, maybe it already helps a bit for certain infos.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 14, 2009, 07:25:50 AM
Only for you to know, there is already a topic " Empress Maria Theresia and her daughters", where she and her siblings were already discussed, maybe it already helps a bit for certain infos.

mjabele refered to Maria Anna (1804-1858), daughter of Franz II./I. and his second wife Maria Theresia of the Two Sicilies. So Maria Anna was Empress Maria Theresia's great-granddaughter. I think you mixed this Maria Anna up with Empress Maria Theresia's daughter who had the same name., Britta.

Anyway, there is also a thread about Franz I./II.'s children:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6852.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6852.0)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 14, 2009, 11:50:36 AM

(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y207/mariasophia1841/mariaanna03.jpg)

Archduchess Maria Anna
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: mjabele on March 14, 2009, 09:59:10 PM
Thanks for the picture, MarieCharlotte.   I've actually seen the thread about Franz I/II's children, but it didn't (totally) answer my questions about Archduchess Maria Anna.   Elsewhere, I've read that she did marry, albeit apparently beneath her, to a Galician courtier named Ioan Drogowski.   Presumably this was some sort of morganatic alliance, I have no idea; and perhaps I'm just imagining a more romantic connotation to the whole thing than was truly the case.   But I guess I'm still left wondering.....
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Paola on March 16, 2009, 02:03:46 AM
She doesn't look deformed in this picture. Maybe mentally retarted?
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Jose II on March 16, 2009, 11:42:09 AM
I've never read that Maria Anna got married.

Thanks for the picture. It adds to my collection of Franz II's children.
Would someone have any picture of her little brother AD Johann Nepomuk (1805-9) ? He's the only one missing, now...

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Svetabel on March 18, 2009, 05:21:41 AM
She doesn't look deformed in this picture.

A painter could flatter to his sitter.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Paola on March 18, 2009, 05:25:31 AM
True  :)  But she really looks too pretty in this portrait.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on March 19, 2009, 11:29:37 AM
I've never read that Maria Anna got married.

Thanks for the picture. It adds to my collection of Franz II's children.
Would someone have any picture of her little brother AD Johann Nepomuk (1805-9) ? He's the only one missing, now...

Thanks in advance.

I'm sorry, I have never seen a picture of him.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: britt.25 on March 20, 2009, 06:04:20 AM
Only for you to know, there is already a topic " Empress Maria Theresia and her daughters", where she and her siblings were already discussed, maybe it already helps a bit for certain infos.

mjabele refered to Maria Anna (1804-1858), daughter of Franz II./I. and his second wife Maria Theresia of the Two Sicilies. So Maria Anna was Empress Maria Theresia's great-granddaughter. I think you mixed this Maria Anna up with Empress Maria Theresia's daughter who had the same name., Britta.

Anyway, there is also a thread about Franz I./II.'s children:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6852.0 (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=6852.0)



Yes, I didn't look correctly, thanks for correcting me, my head is too full with university works as it seems.....sorry....
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: The Prussian on July 30, 2009, 11:33:57 PM
Hello.

Although no one has posted on this topic for about 3 years, the question I have pretty much falls under the title and I thought there's no point in me creating a new topic for one question.

Anyway, to the question - although the Austrian Emperor Ferdinand I (eldest son of Francis II/I) abdicated in 1848, he lived until 1875... are there any photographs of him in later life?

Thanks,
The Prussian
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: MarieCharlotte on August 03, 2009, 08:52:09 AM
Although no one has posted on this topic for about 3 years, the question I have pretty much falls under the title and I thought there's no point in me creating a new topic for one question.

Moderators love such circumspect people like you. Thanks. :-)

Anyway, to the question - although the Austrian Emperor Ferdinand I (eldest son of Francis II/I) abdicated in 1848, he lived until 1875... are there any photographs of him in later life?

This is the only photograph of Ferdinand I've ever seen:

(http://home.arcor.de/ciolla/ferdinand02.jpg)
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: The Prussian on August 06, 2009, 05:16:26 AM
He certainly looks very small, doesn't he?

Do you have any idea when it was taken?

Anyway, thanks for providing the photo, it's very interesting.

:)

The Prussian
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Mersan on September 16, 2011, 01:41:34 PM
 Hello everyone. I would like to ask you a question, you have a portrait of Archduchess Carolina Ferdinanda of adult. Thank you.
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Marc on September 16, 2011, 06:17:26 PM
Unfortunately,I have seen just one or two of her portraits and all were as a (young) girl :-(
Title: Re: Children of Kaiser Franz II. / I.
Post by: Mersan on September 17, 2011, 07:23:05 AM
Okay, thanks anyway for your input.