Alexander Palace Forum

Books and Films about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia => Books about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia => Topic started by: russiangirl on September 04, 2004, 01:14:24 PM

Title: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: russiangirl on September 04, 2004, 01:14:24 PM
I'm reading this book and I've found somethink strange, there is a situation in I-st chapter when Klara Peuthern ask von Schwabe about his anti-Semitism, and he says of course I'm anti-S and he pull out a little SWASTIKA!!!!well it was in march 1922(!!!!!), and I'm not sure swastika means in this time something different!!!!! in the time of Hitler (maybe '30y) it start to be simbol of nazi, Am I right????
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Lisa on September 04, 2004, 01:34:07 PM
Oh, yes! I don't think that the swastika was alredy the symbol of anti-semitism (=nazism) in 1922!

Alix and her sister Irene loved this sign. It's a very old symbol of peace (!!!), luck and happiness (!!!)
Here, you can see Irene in 1910, and she wore the swastika
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/lyzotchka/irene1910.jpg)

Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Forum Admin on September 04, 2004, 02:56:12 PM
The Nazi party adopted the swastika as it's party symbol in August 1920.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: pushkina on September 04, 2004, 08:43:13 PM
Quote
It's a very old symbol of peace (!!!), luck and happiness (!!!)


The word "swastika" comes from the Sanskrit svastika - "su" meaning "good," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck. Also resurrection and the return of the wheel of life.

Even in the early twentieth century, the swastika was still a symbol with positive connotations. For instance, the swastika was a common decoration that often adorned cigarette cases, postcards, coins, and buildings. During World War I, the swastika could even be found on the shoulder patches of the American 45th Division and on the Finnish air force until after World War II.

In the 1800s, countries around Germany were growing much larger, forming empires; yet Germany was not a unified country until 1871. To counter the feeling of vulnerability and the stigma of youth, German nationalists in the mid-nineteenth century began to use the swastika, because it had ancient Aryan/Indian origins, to represent a long Germanic/Aryan history.

when i was in iran during the end of the last shah's reign, i was astounded to see swastikas at some of the old ancient installations. i was assured that the swastka had been there before the germans. and indeed, in the 30s the nazis "allied" briefly with the iranians, looking at them as either "big brother aryans" or as "little brother aryas" either way as those who had "lost" their "aryan way of leadership.

By the end of the nineteenth century, the swastika could be found on nationalist German volkisch periodicals and was the official emblem of the German Gymnasts' League.

In the beginning of the twentieth century, the swastika was a common symbol of German nationalism and could be found in a multitude of places such as the emblem for the Wandervogel, a German youth movement; on Joerg Lanz von Liebenfels' antisemitic periodical Ostara; on various Freikorps units; and as an emblem of the Thule Society.

In ancient times, the direction of the swastika was interchangeable as can be seen on an ancient Chinese silk drawing.

Some cultures in the past had differentiated between the clockwise swastika and the counter-clockwise sauvastika. In these cultures the swastika symbolized health and life while the sauvastika took on a mystical meaning of bad-luck or misfortune.

But since the Nazis use of the swastika, some people are trying to differentiate the two meanings of the swastika by varying its direction - trying to make the clockwise, Nazi version of the swastika mean hate and death while the counter-clockwise version would hold the ancient meaning of the symbol, life and good-luck.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: katyaa on September 04, 2004, 08:53:01 PM
Alexandra looked upon it as a symbol of good luck and hope. She carved one in the window at the Ipatiev house. It was not until long after she was gone it sadly took on a sinister meaning. I bet her sister Irene meant it in the same good way Alix did.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: russiangirl on September 05, 2004, 01:40:05 AM
Yes but how Von Schwabe could knows in 1922 that swastika would be a simbol of anti-Semitism??????
Or maybe it's only vision of P Kurth?????
I reply what he said:
Klara Peuthern ask von Schwabe about his anti-Semitism, and he says of course I'm anti-S and he pull out a little SWASTIKA!!!! And even NSDAP in 1920 was very little and von Schvabe didn't know about them !!!
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: pushkina on September 05, 2004, 08:12:05 AM
Quote



By the end of the nineteenth century, the swastika could be found on nationalist German volkisch periodicals and was the official emblem of the German Gymnasts' League.

In the beginning of the twentieth century, the swastika was a common symbol of German nationalism and could be found in a multitude of places such as the emblem for the Wandervogel, a German youth movement; on Joerg Lanz von Liebenfels' antisemitic periodical Ostara; on various Freikorps units; and as an emblem of the Thule Society.
-/

because anti -semites already were usin it. read above

Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: russiangirl on September 05, 2004, 08:32:44 AM
well when in the same time1 person use this sign like a symbol of happines and luck and other as symbol of nationalist how can we know what exactly it means?
before Hitler's time (30') it wasnt well known as anti-semitism symbol I think
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: rskkiya on September 12, 2004, 04:01:10 PM
To the best of my knowledge the Swastika was popular amongst soldiers on both sides in the First World War as a lucky symbol -- horrific as this may seem to us, it was a bit like a happy or smiley face to many members in that generation.
   Alix was interested in esoteric philosophy, and may well have discovered the symbol thru her studies of eastern mysticism or world religion. She seemed to have known about it well before the war and even before her marriage to N.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: pushkina on September 12, 2004, 06:05:01 PM
Quote
before Hitler's time (30') it wasnt well known as anti-semitism symbol I think


by 1920, it was definitely adopted by hitler and what would become the nazi party.  so by then, it was a symbol for all their beliefs.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: rskkiya on September 13, 2004, 09:19:06 AM
Pushkina...
Did you know that Hitler adopted the Red flag and Swastika after an earlier defunct political party in Germany tried to use it. That party (I am sorry that I can't remember that parties name or platform)was started by a dentist, but it failed to get any attention and a youthful Hitler- noting the dramatic potential of the symbol and the reasonance it might inspire amongst disenchanted army vets like himself - took it over in the early 1920s...
It might be a bit much to connect the nazi's anti-semitism with the anti-semitism expressed by Alix, although this phenomenon was a tragic part of much of European culture at this time.

I am sorry if I have made this into the all swastika discussion thread! :D

R.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Elisabeth on September 22, 2004, 05:12:05 PM
We can still turn it into a Peter Kurth "Anastasia" thread!

I read on another thread (Anastasia and Anna Anderson) that, publisher permitting, Peter Kurth might someday bring out an updated version of his book, "Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson." I hope this is true and that it will happen sooner rather than later. I still recommend this book to people. You don't have to believe Anna Anderson was Anastasia to enjoy it. I've read it both ways over the years, as a "believer" and a "non-believer," and can testify that it makes no difference to one's reading pleasure... This is a superb biography, exceptionally well written and one of the best in its genre. I wasn't surprised when Kurth came out with a biography on Isadora Duncan, because he is such an artist himself.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Robert_Hall on September 22, 2004, 05:21:32 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. Peter Kurth is the only one to even come close to convincing me of the AA claim. [I remain unconvinced, however]. And his other work is equally enjoyable.
It is always a pleasure to read his insights.
Robert
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: plk on September 22, 2004, 08:54:27 PM
Quote
We can still turn it into a Peter Kurth "Anastasia" thread!

I read on another thread (Anastasia and Anna Anderson) that, publisher permitting, Peter Kurth might someday bring out an updated version of his book, "Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson." I hope this is true and that it will happen sooner rather than later. I still recommend this book to people. You don't have to believe Anna Anderson was Anastasia to enjoy it. I've read it both ways over the years, as a "believer" and a "non-believer," and can testify that it makes no difference to one's reading pleasure... This is a superb biography, exceptionally well written and one of the best in its genre. I wasn't surprised when Kurth came out with a biography on Isadora Duncan, because he is such an artist himself.



You are all -- I say this as humbly as I know how, which isn't much, but is still *something* -- much too nice!  My "Anastasia" is now 21 years old.  I do indeed want to update it, and also to give it a less partisan tone, but in order to do this I first have to win the rights back from its publisher -- believe me, I'm working on it -- "a small, still voice crying in the wilderness" against the TimeWarner behemoth -- but, in the end, I think, I'll win.  Thank you all for your kind words.  PK



Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Alexa on September 23, 2004, 01:46:26 PM
Quote


You are all -- I say this as humbly as I know how, which isn't much, but is still *something* -- much too nice!  My "Anastasia" is now 21 years old.  I do indeed want to update it, and also to give it a less partisan tone, but in order to do this I first have to win the rights back from its publisher -- believe me, I'm working on it -- "a small, still voice crying in the wilderness" against the TimeWarner behemoth -- but, in the end, I think, I'll win.  Thank you all for your kind words.  PK





Good luck with winning the rights back.  I just had my first articl published, and had to give up rights for only a year, and even that felt like I was selling my soul.  Once you do get the rights back, I'd be more than interested to see an updated version.  I first read your book back in 1991, and have to concur with Robert and Elizabeth, and look forward to seeing more.

Alexa
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Jane on September 23, 2004, 03:10:34 PM
I first read Mr. Kurth's book upon its release twenty-plus years ago.  I was absolutely fascinated by the story, and although I was already generally interested in the Romanovs, "Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson" is one of the two books (the other being Massie's) which I recall being instrumental in my developing my"passion" for Romanov and Russian history.  

It remains a staple in my Russian history "sub-library" (although it is now dog-eared and worn, but I've always believed that indicates a well-used, well-loved and treasured book). Like Elisabeth, I've read it as from both "believer" (when I first read the book it made a believer of me) and "nonbeliever" points of view.  While I am now firmly and irrevocably in the camp that believes all the members of the Imperial Family in the Ipatiev House died that night in 1918, I highly recommend this book as required reading.

Jane
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: ChristineM on September 23, 2004, 06:01:53 PM
Of all the many books I am fortunate to possess, I probably remember receiving Peter Kurth's 'Anastasia' more clearly than any other.   My husband bought it for me to take into hospital when I was admitted to deliver our son.   Amazingly that will be twenty one years ago in January 2005 (only days after the death of Anna Anderson).

In as much as Robert Massie's 'Nicholas and Alexandra' is THE seminal book (everything between two covers) on the subject of the last Imperial Family;  likewise Peter Kurth's 'Anastasia' has the same definitive qualities on the neverending fascination and public captivation with the GD Anastasia/Anna Anderson tale.

I think we should all (pro and anti survival believers alike) raise a glass and toast the coming of age of Peter's 'Anastasia'.

tsaria
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Scout on October 24, 2004, 02:20:28 PM
Just a fleeting remark. Swastika was first officiallly used in European history by Russian Provisional Government under Kerenski in 1917. On a 250 roubles banknote there's the new Russian eagle with swastika in the background.

Swastika indeed used to be a symbol of luck and prosperity. Still is - in the Buddist countries. And it is included in the official emblem of the Theosophical Society.

Accidentally, the position of Nazi Swastika is reversed - which means "bad luck". Hitler had been warned about it more than once but paid no attention.

PS It is very unlikely that somebody in the 20's might profess his/her anticemitism by displaying a swastika - just doesn't make any sense.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Sergio on October 24, 2004, 05:56:21 PM
Quote
Just a fleeting remark. Swastika was first officiallly used in European history by Russian Provisional Government under Kerenski in 1917. On a 250 roubles banknote there's the new Russian eagle with swastika in the background.

(http://tomchao.com/eu/ru17b.jpg)  250 Rubles banknote (back) with swastika (1917)


Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Scout on October 24, 2004, 06:02:20 PM
Thanks for showing. I would like to point out that the swastika is a bit dimmed by scanning.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Nathan_Davis on November 26, 2004, 02:48:39 PM
Peter Kurth's "Anastasia" was the book that first quickened my interest in the last Tsar and his family, and for that I owe him my sincere gratitude. I admit I was really rooting for Anna Anderson and was quite stunned when the DNA results eventually came out.

Regards,

Nathan
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Belochka on November 26, 2004, 07:05:31 PM
If Peter Kurth has the opportunity to update his book, I hope that it will reflect on Dr Gill's mtDNA analysis which proved conclusively that AA was not who some purported she might have been.

I would welcome such a revision to help set the records straight.  :D  
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Denise on November 26, 2004, 09:04:12 PM
Quote
If Peter Kurth has the opportunity to update his book, I hope that it will reflect on Dr Gill's mtDNA analysis which proved conclusively that AA was not who some purported she might have been.

I would welcome such a revision to help set the records straight.  :D  


I agree.  Peter's book set me onto the whole Romanov passion when it came out.  I was a senior in high school when I read it.  Even though the DNA has proved AA to not be AN, the book itself is such a well written treasure that to have the whole story told within its pages would be great.

From what I hear, though, the publisher will not release the rights for an update.  :(

Denise
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Belochka on November 26, 2004, 09:22:38 PM
There are other venues to restate one's case! ::)
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Rachael89 on August 02, 2005, 06:35:50 AM
Hi there

I'm new to posting but I have read the posts on here with interest.

I am especially interested in the story of Anna Anderson's and I am planning to buy one of Peter Kurth's books on her.

When I looked up Peter Kurth to try and find a list of the book's he's written the books all seem different in some way, some even have different titles! So I am very confused as to whether the book's I am seeing are the same book just with different titles. ???

I would greatly appreciate it if you could help me identify the books by Peter Kurth on AA & AN.

Thanks in advance

Rachael

P.S. I'm sorry if there's already a thread of this nature but I'm too busy with holiday H/W to look properly!
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Marlene on August 02, 2005, 08:31:28 AM
US Edition:  Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson
and the UK edition  Anastasia the Life of Anna Anderson.

Same book.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Bob_the_builder on May 18, 2007, 09:34:45 PM
I hope one day this book will be republished with an update because alot has happened since 1983 when the book was published. AA deteriorated quite alot and died in 1984 (although the paperback 1985 edition adresses this). There was some more films made, 1986 which was based on this book called "Anastasia: The mystery of Anna", and then of course the "Anastasia" cartoon musical in 1997. And how can we forget the 1995 announcement of the DNA results which proved Anna Anderson was not Anastasia and most likely FS.

I for one love this book no matter who AA is. It is certainly the best of the numerous biographies written about her and sticks to the facts instead of making up wild rumors. It's still my favorite book. It was the first I read about the Romanovs when I was a kid. So maybe it's outdated now, but it's still a great biography and as long as you keep in mind AA wasn't Anastasia, it's still a book that sticks to the facts.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Halinka on July 19, 2008, 10:41:19 PM
This is a terrible book, this book spits up true facts of romanov and spits it out. It deastory there character. It has barely any facts. Made up stories. For example the terrible "King Kong" story. This is simple a fairy tale not true at all.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 19, 2008, 11:07:41 PM
The King Kong story was not in Kurth's book. It was in the  long dis-credited James Blair-Lovell's ANASTASIA. Kurth is a much better writer. Lovell is dead.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: StevenL on July 20, 2008, 06:47:17 AM
For example the terrible "King Kong" story. This is simple a fairy tale not true at all.

You don't know what you're talking about. I have an idea: Try discussing a book you have actually read!
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Michael HR on July 20, 2008, 07:25:44 AM
I hate to have to ask but what is the King Kong story?

 :-[
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 20, 2008, 11:18:50 AM
Micharl HR-  Blair claimed AA told him some horrible stories about abuse of the family in Yekaterinburg  when the went to see the film King Kong. He later admitted,  right before he died, that he made the whole thing up. I think most of us  doubted it to begin with. It was pretty gross.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Ilana on July 20, 2008, 11:37:14 AM
...gave me nightmares.  You have to wonder what this guy was thinking... he made some other really off the wall claims as well.  Really, do you think he ever even met Anna Andersen???
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Halinka on July 20, 2008, 01:54:42 PM
...gave me nightmares.  You have to wonder what this guy was thinking... he made some other really off the wall claims as well.  Really, do you think he ever even met Anna Andersen???
I belive, I could be mistaken but they were good friends with each other.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Michael HR on July 20, 2008, 02:06:50 PM
Hi Robert,

Thanks for that. The horrible thing is when I looked in my bookcase guess what I found? Yep, I seem to have that book and must havebought it many years ago and forgot it was here. Might skim through for a laugh.

Mike


Micharl HR-  Blair claimed AA told him some horrible stories about abuse of the family in Yekaterinburg  when the went to see the film King Kong. He later admitted,  right before he died, that he made the whole thing up. I think most of us  doubted it to begin with. It was pretty gross.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 20, 2008, 02:26:11 PM
As I understand it, from PRIMARY sources, they did indeed know each other and met several times, including interviews.  He just added a lot of sensationalst crap to sell his book, which he had worked long and hard to produce. A pity that all that work went for nothing.
 But this senseless thread is supposedly about Kurth's book, isn't it?
 And, Halinka, you really need to read more before posting- you are often mis-informed or just wrong.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Halinka on October 14, 2008, 11:38:46 AM
Hello everyone!
 Rectently I got the book "Anastasia The Riddle Of Anna Anderson" now I'm writting my senior paper on anna anderson, don't worry folks. I'm not claiming she the grand duschess.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Marlene on October 14, 2008, 12:54:18 PM
Yes, Peter's book is wonderful.  Avoid the James Blair Lovell book like the plague.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Forum Admin on October 14, 2008, 01:43:59 PM
As a biography of the person Anna Manahan, the book is useful. I believe if you search the Anna Anderson threads, you will find out what errors, if any are in the book. The subject has been discussed here before.

I agree that the Lovell book is just about useless.
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Ilana on October 15, 2008, 10:48:51 AM
Can I just third that... don't get near the Lovell book, it's shockingly bad.

I really enjoyed the Peter Kurth book... I have found his interest in AA fascinating...
Title: Re: Anastasia: The Riddle of Anna Anderson, by Peter Kurth
Post by: Rachael89 on October 20, 2008, 05:36:40 PM
Peter Kurth's book is generally a very reliable source of information, it is very well researched and Kurth specifies his sources in the notes at the back. Even though it is now known that AA was not Anastasia, the book still makes compelling reading.  Just be careful when you're reading to consider that Kurth is obviously biased in Anna's favour, which can result in selectivity etc.

The book you need to be sceptical of is Anastasia: The Lost Princess by James Blair Lovell - it's a minefield of mis-information.

Good luck with your paper!