Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Yussupovs => Topic started by: xx4 on September 05, 2004, 11:01:56 AM

Title: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: xx4 on September 05, 2004, 11:01:56 AM
I'm reading book about great musician Igor Stravinsky, and there is interesting information- when he've studyed law in S.Petersburg one of exam passed in place of him Nikola Jusupow, Felix brother!! wow
Where can I find more information about Nikola?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on September 05, 2004, 11:34:03 AM
Felix tells a lot about his brother in his memoirs, Lost Splendor.

http://alexanderpalace.org/LostSplendor

There is also something on him in many books and articles that mention Felix. Felix often described his brother as not caring for anything more than his own pleasure, and that he loved partying and women. He did not like the military and refused to become a soldier, even though his father was head of the Chevelier Guards. He went to the University of St. Petersburg. He loved travelling to Paris. He could play the guitar and sing, and had talents for acting and comedy, had a lot of interest in the occult, spirituality, senances, and psychics.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: hikaru on March 29, 2005, 01:23:19 AM
I like the portrait of the Nikolay in Pushkin Private Collection Museum in Moscow. (Next Building to the Pushkin Museum)
He was very handsome too.
His death was very big tragedy , it seems that medieval damnation of the Yusuppovs did work perfectly.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on March 30, 2005, 10:07:09 AM
Indeed, there did seem to be some sort of curse on the family as only one child lived past the age of 25.

Does anyone have any photos of Nikolaj? Also, wasn't he his mother's favorite?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on March 30, 2005, 11:54:21 AM
In the few pictures I have seen of him, he seems to resemble his father more than his mother.  I had read that his death had a devestating effect on her, causing her to go into a deep depression and her character was altered so she was never quite the same afterwards.


As for Ferrands' Yusupov book I'm trying to build the funds to buy it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Kätlin on March 30, 2005, 12:15:48 PM
Where could I order Ferrand's book? I've only heard of a french web page, where prices are in francs. It seems kind of out of date.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on March 30, 2005, 02:10:28 PM
Euro history has a few copies avaliable but I think the price was about $79.00 -$90.00 USD
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Mia on April 01, 2005, 05:27:53 AM
A miniature painting of Nicholas in a flower picture frame made by Fabergé. This reminds me of how Queen Victoria of Sweden started her letters to her favourite son, Prince Wilhelm with the words "Meine Blume".

(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y55/Timantti-Mia/Kukkapoika.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Steph on June 17, 2005, 09:21:38 AM
Hello to all :)

Are there any pics of NiKolaj as a baby or a child ?

When was he born ? In 1882 or 1883 ?

Did he die in 1907 or 1908 ?

Although he was only known as Count Nicolas Sumarakoff-Elston, was his family name Yussupov?

Thank you

Steph :D
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on June 17, 2005, 12:03:50 PM
Hi Steph,

We have been unable to find many photographs of Nicholas although I along with many others have looked. Maybe someone who has the Ferrands' Yusupov book could do some scanning ;)

In Lost Splendor, Felix mentions many times a 5 year age difference between he and his brother. So he would have been born in 1882. But Jacques Ferrand lists his birth as February 1883. ???

He died in the summer of 1908.

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on June 20, 2005, 06:45:39 PM
As we have discussed before on another thread, there is some descrepency on his birthdate. It seems to have been 1882, since Felix said there was a five year age difference and he was born in 1887 for sure. Also that Zenaida was worried about the duel because in every generation only one heir had lived past 25 and he was near his 26th bday in 1908 making him again born in 1882. I have thought maybe he was already on the way when the parents were married, and this is why his birthdate was hushed or confused. This was very common in the olden times when 'out of wedlock' babies or premarital sex was scandelous. This would also account for Zenaida's rushed and small wedding (in April 1882) though she was the richest and most eligible girl in Russia!

Now on the name. Felix's father was Felix Sumarakov-Elston. When he and Zenaida married, Zenaida's father petitioned the Tsar to allow the husband and future children to take the Yussoupov name since Zenaida was the last of her line and the name would die out. This was not granted until 1891 when he died, so Felix and his brother were born with the Sumarakov-Elston name before they were allowed to be called Prince Yussoupov. Sometimes they carry both titles, depending on the book you read.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Emilia on January 30, 2006, 11:12:10 AM
Hi!

There must be more photos/portraits around of Nikolai, after all he was the heir of Russia´s richest family until his premature death. Does anybody out there have anymore, please? :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: jybenton on January 30, 2006, 12:35:17 PM
Nicolai and his brother during a hunting party
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e63/jybenton/felixnicolai.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: lancashireladandre on January 30, 2006, 01:15:36 PM
Quote
Hi!

There must be more photos/portraits around of Nikolai, after all he was the heir of Russia´s richest family until his premature death. Does anybody out there have anymore, please? :)

The portrait by Valentin Serov is now in The Russian Museum in St Petersburg.Felix owned another portrait which hung over his bed in his last home(Rue Pierre Guerin,Paris).Nicholas was born in February 1883 and died in August 1908.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Emilia on January 30, 2006, 01:28:27 PM
Thank you very much for this picture, jybenton!! :)

lancashireladandre, could you please post the portrait by Valentin Serov? Thanks!
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: AkshayChavan on January 31, 2006, 07:13:25 AM

This painting however is terrible. It does not do justice to his handsome good looks.I have two other very nice photos but i dont know how to post them. Where can i find info as to how to upload the photos?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: AkshayChavan on January 31, 2006, 03:53:37 PM
These are some of the photos which i have. The first one is a simply stunning photo. He looks so debonair!!! Just like a fairytale prince.
(http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e208/akshaychavan/nicholas.jpg)

The second photo is with Zenaida and Felix. He must be in his 20s. Zenaida too looks great!
(http:// http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e208/akshaychavan/fymotherbrother-vi.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Emilia on February 01, 2006, 05:02:40 AM
Thanks for those stunning photos, AkshayChavan!! :-* :)
Do you have more? ::)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: AkshayChavan on February 01, 2006, 10:11:27 AM
I purchased the book lost splendor from amazon. To my outrage, there are more photos of romanovs and rasputin in it than those of yussupovs. Why the hell would i buy this book to see photos of romanovs? In this book there is a nice photo of nikolai in white sailor suit and he looks awesome!. I wish i had more photos of him but sadly these are all i have. Does anyone else have more?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Lisa on December 13, 2006, 08:38:38 AM
A portrait of Nicholas by Bogdanov Belsky in the 1900 (Musuem of Fine Arts Pushkin, Saint-Petserbourg)

(http://www.museum.ru/gmii/pict/sol_1b.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Penny_Wilson on December 13, 2006, 12:19:32 PM
There is quite a bit of information about Nicholas Yussupov in this book: Rubis Portent Malheur (Monte Carlo: Editions Regain 1967).  The author is Marina de Heyden, who is the woman over whom Nicholas and Arvid Manteuffel fought the duel in which Nicholas was mortally wounded.  I don't know if there are any photos or pictures in the book: My copy has none, but it's so seriously thrashed that it has no back cover and I keep it in a big plastic sandwich bag so as not to lose any pages of text.  :)

A couple of years ago, when Greg and I were still producing Atlantis Magazine, we published a two-part article on Countess Marina de Heyden and her love triangle with Arvid Manteuffel and Nicholas Yussupov -- and including young Felix's involvement in the matter.  If there is any interest, we will ask the author of the article if she will agree to reproduce it here, or make it available for readers elsewhere...

~Penny
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on December 13, 2006, 02:30:44 PM
If you are talking about the one from Gretchen, it is very good. I loved it...
I also recomend Marina de Heyden's book. I read it through  the local public library. I have been trying to buy it ever since but it is very hard to get.
Best Regards,

Arturo
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Penny_Wilson on December 13, 2006, 02:49:20 PM
If you are talking about the one from Gretchen, it is very good. I loved it...

That's the very one -- it really is a great article, and one we were proud to include in Atlantis.  Gretchen should write more books!

Quote
I also recomend Marina de Heyden's book. I read it through  the local public library. I have been trying to buy it ever since but it is very hard to get.
Best Regards,

Arturo

I feel very lucky to have found my poor little copy!

Best,
Penny
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: imperial angel on December 13, 2006, 04:58:35 PM
It's interesting to speculate about what would have been if he had not died so young. If he hadn't, Felix would have been less important, although still very important and wealthy. Would he have married Irina then? He still would have been important, but he would not have been the sole heir to all the Yusupov fortune, as he became after his brother's death. I think it sounds like his brother shared some of the tastes of Felix, but that he wasn't as flamboyant, at all. Felix was more of a character, Nikolaj more quiet.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on December 14, 2006, 02:06:43 PM
I think they both were some kind of charatcters in their own particular way. They did not have much in common except for the fact they both shared the same parents.They both like to party and  Felix mentions in his memories that  Nicholas and his lover at that time were the ones who encourage him for the first time to dress up in woman's clothes in order to be allowed in a night club. Felix must have been very young if he was not allowed in there. Nicholas had  his own theatre company or theatre group, although I do not remember if Zenaida ever allowed him to perform in one of her theatres. He loved to perform gipsy songs and enjoyed a kind of bohemian lifestyle,  I am sure it must have been a kind of "Bohemian-chick" lifestyle being as spoiled as he was, he woulnd't had allowed himself nothing less.  He was also a womanizer and I don't know for sure if he was in love with Marina de Heyden for I have only read Marina's side of the story, but something other than  pride must have been going on to end up things as fatally as they did. As a consecuence of Nicholas death, Marina de Heyden became Felix's worst enemy. She never forgave him, and I do not know if she blamed Felix directly, but she did blame Felix for Nicholas death; and until the end of her days, Marina hated Felix more than anything else in her life.....
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: imperial angel on December 14, 2006, 03:06:08 PM
I do think they were different personalities, seems to me. They both lived the high life, and had those tastes, but you are right, they were different personalities. Maybe we don't know much about Nikolaj, but I have only read the book by Greg King which is very good, which covers the Yusupovs. I think he is more intriguing than the coverage of him would make you think. He certainly had a stupid death, but then he was just living life for the pleasure of it, and maybe didn't mind going young. But, Felix had too much of a good opinion of himself to be killed in a duel the way that Nicholaj was. Prince Felix was less careless with his life than Nikolaj,  and he would not have gotten involved. I'm not saying Nikolaj was careless with his life, it just seems he had the attitude, of '' I'm here for a good time, not a long time''. I'm not sure about the long time part, but I am sure about the good time part.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Johnny on March 03, 2007, 07:57:55 PM
Here is the link to the serov painting
http://www.abcgallery.com/S/serov/serov65.html

This painting however is terrible. It does not do justice to his handsome good looks.
Dear AkshayChavan,

You are rather unkind to Serov's masterpiece  :). I find it to be a fabulous picture. Nicholas was indeed handsome, but that can also be seen in Serov's painting of him. But what a great artist like Serov captures in his painting of his subject is its psychology which is not made so bluntly visible in Belsky's portrait of Nikolai. Another painter, a lesser artist than Belsky and Serov would have just painted a flattering photographic resemblence of the sitter. In Belsky's painting you see a handsome and wealthy young man if a bit disturbed. In Serov you see a handsome, wealthy young man with hot passions burning deep in him, with disturbed thoughts. His impulssivness is brought out to the surface. He looks like a ticking time-bomb awaiting its impeding doom by its own explosion. In his face you can almost see the upcoming duel which resulted in his death. Perhaps that's what makes him look less attractive in this painting, but the physical resemblance is absolutely uncanny. It's Serov after all. Thank you very much for posting the link!
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: pattypahn on May 07, 2007, 07:38:05 PM
Thank you for posting Belsky's portrait too.  I have never seen it before and it is wonderful!

This is my first time posting in this forum, though I have enjoyed reading many of the posts here.  What a great place this is!  I am a big fan of the Yussupovs.  I just wanted to let everyone know that it is not entirely impossible to buy Marina de Heyden's "Rubis Portent Malheur".  I lucked out a few years ago when I put it on my wish list at Powell's (www.powells.com) -- an  excellent online bookstore for new, used, rare books.  They found one for me in a few months  :).  And Penny is right, it doesn't have any pictures :-(
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on May 17, 2007, 08:16:16 PM
I think it does have a picture of Marina de Heyden. I remember Gretchen telling me the copy she read had that page torn, but one of her friends sent her the picture...maybe it has something to do withn the year each book was published....
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: pattypahn on May 18, 2007, 05:29:23 PM
Er... my book is also from -- Monte Carlo: Editions Regain 1967 as is Penny Wilson's; and I don't know of any other editions of the book.  It's hard enough to find, whew!   And mine never seems to have been read since the pages were still uncut when I got it.     Ferrand's book "Les Youssoupoffs" has only one picture of an old Marina de Heyden seated at what appears to be a party so I was really glad when I read Gretchen's article on Nikolaj and included a picture of the young Marina. 
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Taksa on June 07, 2007, 05:41:32 AM
I have some pics. sorry fot the quality :-\

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/th_IMG_2070.jpg) (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/IMG_2070.jpg)

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/th_IMG_2071.jpg) (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/IMG_2071.jpg)

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/th_IMG_2067.jpg) (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/IMG_2067.jpg)

(http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/th_IMG_2048.jpg) (http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n192/Taksa/IMG_2048.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: brnbg aka: liljones1968 on June 30, 2007, 02:36:45 AM

comte Nicolas Félixovitch Soumarokoff-Elston (+1908)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/skinheadbrian/sumarokoff-elston.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 11, 2007, 02:10:37 AM
I just read a very good article on the couple and events leading up to the death of Nicholas. And I started thinking that I've never seen a picture of Marina in her youth. Does anyone have one?

By the way the article, His Brother's Keeper, by Gretchen Haskin which was published in Atlantis Magazine in 2000, was very insightful by one the most overlooked Yussupov's. One has to wonder how different things would have been had he not been killed in that duel. Would he perhaps had been the one to marry Irina instead of Felix?

http://www.directarticle.org/brothers_keeper2.pdf


Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: loulia on October 11, 2007, 07:04:07 AM
I think Irina was pretty fond of Felix, at least at the begining of their mariage, so I don't think she could have prefer his brother, she loved his personality and Nicholas seem to be rather different. But I don't know what could have happen if Nicolas were not dead, get married to Marina and Felix to Irina. Do you think Felix would have herited the fortune because of such a mariage?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 11, 2007, 11:59:46 AM
From what I gather, the scandel that Nicholas and Marina's relationship was so hot that people were openly saying that the Yussupov title and fortune should be passed to Felix. Well, Zenaida would hear none of it, but I'm sure if Nicholas had married Marina that there would have been a falling out of sort where Felix Sr. more than likely would have disinherited Nicholas, much to Zenaida's heartache. More than likely they would have been shunned by society for some time but would have been back with the 'in' crowd in time.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 12, 2007, 10:48:11 AM
I don't think Nicholas would have married Irina. Look that's a 13 year age difference. With Felix and Irina it was 8 and that is kind of a lot on its own. I have noticed among the old aristocracy most marriages of that time were 5  years age difference or less. Olga A.'s was a 14 yr. difference and it didn't last. She then found a man only a year older and they were happy. Of course age doesn't always have to be a factor, but it can be. Especially in the semi arranged marriages of the old royals and nobles, they didn't usually go so far out. Nicholas was shot when he was 26 Irina was only 13. I doubt if he'd lived he'd have waited until he was over 30 for her to grow up, he'd have found someone else by then. If Felix didn't get Irina, Dmitri probably would have, IMO. Remember he had a thing for her, and Felix said in his book Dmitri seemed sad when he and Irina were married.  I also feel sorry for the long suffering Munya Golovina, whose unrequited love for Nicholas tortured her even after his death.

I have also never believed Felix planned, or wanted, or hoped his brother would die in the duel. He was torn up over the whole thing, and he hated how it hurt his mother. He'd never have wished that on his family.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 12, 2007, 12:00:28 PM

I have also never believed Felix planned, or wanted, or hoped his brother would die in the duel. He was torn up over the whole thing, and he hated how it hurt his mother. He'd never have wished that on his family.

I don't think Felix hoped or wanted his brother to die in the duel. It would have been just plain cold, but I do think he carried some kinda of guilt over it, for whatever reason. Yes, I agree that he wouldn't have wanted to harm his family, especially his mother who he adored, but I think that Felix did do something foolishly that caused a chain reaction of events. Was he planning for something bad to happen? No, I highly doubt it, it just became a trick/gag that got out of hand. It's not the first time I hear of him having had some part in the events leading up to the duel in which Nicholas died.

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on October 12, 2007, 01:31:17 PM
By reading Marina de Hayden's book you get the idea Felix was just having fun telling Marina that his brother Nicholas was in love with her and in Marina's point of view she believed that at some point this became true. I agree with Ashanti that Nicholas' death was the result of a chain reaction of events that went out of control.  I believe that Nicholas, being used to do as he pleased, went alone with the flow and when the situation exploded it was too late to back off. Honor was considered very important in those days and remember Marina was a married woman. The duel was a well known event. Even Nicholas II knew about it and I think he decided not to take action against it. if Nicholas Yussupov wouldn't have shown up for the duel he certainly would have been known as a coward and I do not believe he would have allowed himself that.
According to Felix, he look for his brother all night long, but I do not believe this was entirely true. At the end, Marina became Felix's sworn enemy for the rest of her days and blame Felix directly for Nicholas death.
I can only infer Zenaida, having the pleasure of knowing her sons better than anyone,  as Marina wrote Zenaida told her in Paris, knew her son's death was the consecuence of a game out of control and got in terrible depression excluding herself from all social life. After that i think the only social event she attended was  felix & irina's wedding.

Arturo vega-Llausás
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 12, 2007, 08:23:39 PM
I just finished reading the whole thing, and I enjoyed it! It was well written and played like a movie. I could just imagine them all. I'd love to see this made into a film. But how sad. Thanks for posting, Ashanti!

But I do wonder if it all happened just like that or if Marina and the writer added some to make it more interesting, and more slanted against Felix.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 13, 2007, 01:50:44 AM
I don't think that it was written to slant Felix. Think about the rumors and accounts that you've heard over the years and they all reference Felix in one way or the other. That he was involved in the whole incident, there's no question, it's just a question of exactly what. Marina and Felix were clearly both pointing the finger at each other, and in truth they were the only one's who would have known what really happened. Given Felix's history of changing information to better fit his needs, I would have to go lean towards believing Marina.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: loulia on October 13, 2007, 03:03:47 AM
From what I gather, the scandel that Nicholas and Marina's relationship was so hot that people were openly saying that the Yussupov title and fortune should be passed to Felix. Well, Zenaida would hear none of it, but I'm sure if Nicholas had married Marina that there would have been a falling out of sort where Felix Sr. more than likely would have disinherited Nicholas, much to Zenaida's heartache. More than likely they would have been shunned by society for some time but would have been back with the 'in' crowd in time.
I can imagin how felix Sr would feel devastated: choose who will "bear" the honor of the familly between Nicolas in such a marriage and Felix who at the time had fight with his father because of his behaviour as a travesti!
I guess even without a mariage, at this time, before Nicolas's death, Felix Sr felt very disapointed by his sons as he probably wanted his sons to become grat viril soldier with a huge sense of honour and of machism
just my thoughts...
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 13, 2007, 03:16:32 AM
I think Nicholas was a soldier? Wasn't he?

But yes, I think Felix Sr must have felt very disappointed and perhaps even depressed over the actions of both his son's. One must think how hard it must have been for him to remain strong for the sake of Zenaida, but then again, I do believe he was one of those men who kept his feelings to himself, therefore its more likely he grieved the death of Nicholas in private.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 13, 2007, 03:32:23 AM
First I have to thank gugussey for giving me the link to first part http://directarticle.org/brotherskeeper.pdf which has alot of more information!! A true must read!!! And even better very, very rare pictures!!!

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 13, 2007, 03:37:13 AM
I think it's only fair that I post this....very moving

"My Dear Marina,
“By the time this letter reaches you I shall be dead.... I believe that you love me and my last thought will be of you. I
hope you believe me, as I would not lie to you before my death. I loved you, my little Marina, because you are not like
anybody else and never thought of behaving like others, always following the correct path set before you. Society does
not like such people. They have mud and stones thrown at them. You, as a weak little woman, cannot prevail against
them alone.
“Your life, as well as mine, is spoiled. We met at an unfortunate time which has ruined us both. You will never be
happy since it is unlikely that another will appear who will understand you as l did. I understand you easily as we are so
alike. How happy we could have been together.”
“Forgive me for the lack of style in this letter; it contains several phrases that fail to tie together. I write what is in my
mind with little regard for style. I find it very hard that l cannot see you before my death and that I cannot say farewell
and tell you how much I love you. Just think how terrible it is to die for you without even knowing whether you are
thinking of me at that moment.”
“Marina, my dear Marina, you do not know how much I love you. It is now five o’clock.
In two hours my seconds will come to take me away and I will never see you again. Why are you so far away? You
will not hear from me as I pronounce your name for the last time. I do not even have your photograph that I could kiss.
I have only a small lock of hair that I hold sacred.
“That is all. I do not fear death, but it is hard for me to die far from you without seeing you for the last time. “Farewell
forever. I love you.”
Letter by Nicholas , source listed as State Historical Archives, Yusupov Collection, St. Petersburg, Russia.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: loulia on October 13, 2007, 04:00:57 PM
may be my husband is not romantic enough, but I didn't think it was possible someone write something (and truly think it) except in love stories on cinema... How beautiful and sad is this letter, Marina was probably terribly heartbreaking when she read it. What a tragical story :(
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 13, 2007, 06:42:28 PM
It's hard to imagine such heart felt letters being written by men, but in that era it was actually very common to write such letters. Those are the kind of letters I can only hope to get one day.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 14, 2007, 08:02:19 PM
I think Nicholas was a soldier? Wasn't he?



No Felix wrote that his brother 'hated the military and refused to become a soldier." Alexandra complained that they refused to join the military or take up a position at court. They only wanted to have fun. And with all that money who can blame them? Not me!
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 14, 2007, 08:03:29 PM
It's hard to imagine such heart felt letters being written by men, but in that era it was actually very common to write such letters. Those are the kind of letters I can only hope to get one day.

It's so sad so many men can't show their emotions today. I like those kids of letters! Thanks for the pics, too, very nice!
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Victor on October 15, 2007, 12:14:47 AM
Goodness what a moving letter.I read it with tears in my eyes.Did Princess Zenaida see it?I've read Felix encouraged the duel.Is that true?Was it simply to cause mischief or so he could become the heir?He was sent to see Nicholas by his mother I know.Relevant to the thread surely.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 15, 2007, 02:15:07 AM
Goodness what a moving letter.I read it with tears in my eyes.Did Princess Zenaida see it?I've read Felix encouraged the duel.Is that true?Was it simply to cause mischief or so he could become the heir?He was sent to see Nicholas by his mother I know.Relevant to the thread surely.

I'm not sure if Zenaida saw it, and this is only because I'm not sure Felix Sr would have wanted to present it to his already heart broken wife, who never really did recover from her son's death. As for Felix, it seems, at least to me, that he had something to do with a prank that got out of hand and which lead to a chain reaction of events that lead to Nicholas's death. Do I think he wanted to 'take his brother out'? No, I really don't. It just seems to be a really tragic case of a mischievies deed gone bad.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Victor on October 15, 2007, 04:02:10 AM
In "Lost Splendor"Felix decribes his reaction to his mothers grief "left me dazed with horrror..."and to Nicholas' death"...Obsessed by a desire for revenge which would certainly have driven me to some desperate act if the Grand Duchess[Ella] had not managed to calm me."
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: loulia on October 19, 2007, 03:22:25 PM
What happened to Marina after Nicolas's death? I guess she got divorced? and what happen to her husband? Was there a trial against him or was it consider as "normal" to kill someone that way at this time?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 19, 2007, 05:04:20 PM
What happened to Marina after Nicolas's death? I guess she got divorced? and what happen to her husband?

They did not stay together and were not happy. It tells all that later in the story, but not in much detail, it took me awhile to find it.

 
Quote
Was there a trial against him or was it consider as "normal" to kill someone that way at this time?

I was wondering about this too, was there still the 'code duello' at that time? While it was technically outlawed in the US by the mid 19th century, duels still took place and no one was charged for murder. In the early 1800's Vice President Aaron Burr killed Sec. of the Treasury Alexander Hamilton in a duel, and at that time it was considered an acceptable way of settling disputes and saving your honor! Maybe Russia was further behind other countries so they still considered it okay at that time?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 19, 2007, 05:10:18 PM
I just looked it up, this one said it was illegal in the US by 1840 but still happened and was rarely prosecuted, and that it was all but extinct in Victorian England.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_duello

This one says it was common from the 15th through 20th centuries, so I guess Russia was one of the places that held out the longest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duel

Regardless of the reasons, it's terrible to think people murdered someone and got away with it, especially since some duels, like Nicholas's, seemed to be set up against one of the men.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: loulia on October 19, 2007, 05:44:36 PM
I imagine Zinaida would have done everything possible to have a trial? their family was so powerful!
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on October 19, 2007, 06:44:55 PM
I guess it was not considered Ilegal at that time. Nicholas II knew about the duel and decided not to take hands in the matter, so I can infer it was acceptable to settle "matters of the honor" in that way. After all, the aggravated husband whose wife was "taken" from him was Arvod.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 19, 2007, 07:01:44 PM
How do you know the Tsar knew and did nothing? I never heard that before.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Belochka on October 19, 2007, 07:38:25 PM
I guess it was not considered Ilegal at that time. Nicholas II knew about the duel and decided not to take hands in the matter, so I can infer it was acceptable to settle "matters of the honor" in that way.

Indeed duels were illegal.

Where did you read that Nikolai II was aware of the duel before it had taken place and secondly, "decided" not to act on that knowledge?

Margarita
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on October 19, 2007, 07:41:50 PM
I guess I read it somewhere. Let me go home and check my sources. If I'm mistaken i will let you know..no problem..
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 19, 2007, 08:36:43 PM
Letter that Marina wrote to Felix:

Dear Felix:

I implore you not to come back to Petersburg with Nicholas at this time.Explain this to your parents. Let Nicholas stay abroad until autumn. This is absolutely essential. This is not an idle request; it is serious....Do you understand that all is known here, for instance, our supper on the eve of the
wedding, my correspondence with Nicholas, your arrival in Paris, our lunch and dinner together and our visit to the theatre, and the fact that Mama went away leaving me alone with you. These facts were so distorted and exaggerated and people are saying such horrible things that my head is in a whirl. My father said, ‘I expect you thought you could hide everything...only by telling the truth can you stop these rumors. You know perhaps that the Tsar has learned about it, and I had to tell him everything I knew’.

“Think! They are telling stories in town about how I lived with your brother and other horrid things. They say I dishonored my husband, his name, my family, and that your brother dishonored his family and behaved extremely badly. Of course all this is untrue, but it isn’t easy to prove it and if Nicholas should arrive and come to know about the scandal, he will not be able to avoid a duel. My husband is coming here with his family. His regiment is taking a major part in this and will instigate a duel, and it will all end very badly. All the officers know about the restaurant. They are furious
with Nicholas and say the honor of the regiment is at stake. As they are sending me away from Petersburg any day now, for God’s sake
keep your brother from coming here. By then tongues will cease to wag and all will be forgotten by fall.
 
Please tear up my letter and don’t tell anyone I wrote to you since, in general, I have no right to write to you. Should it get around, there will be more needless misery, of which there is no lack.

Be sure to write soon,
All the best,
Marina

From this I can assume that just like entire St Petersburg knew of the scandel, so did the Tsar. However, whether he knew if the duel would go pass being rumor, I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 19, 2007, 08:40:59 PM
Ok here we go...pg 26 on second part of article 'My brother's keeper'

Once the Horse Guards Tribunal decreed that Manteuffel’s grievances were uncontestable, Commander Khan Nakhitchevan, through Marina’s father, submitted the decision to the Emperor, “who did not oppose it.”(93)

Although the Emperor was Colonel-in-chief of the Horse Guards, the offended regiment, he was also sworn to uphold the civil and criminal law of the land and on many occasions had made it clear to his family that no Romanov was exempt from it. The case was no longer a formality which would satisfy the honor of Manteuffel’s regiment with shots fired deliberately into the air; it had become a grave and mordant matter.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Terence on October 19, 2007, 09:43:22 PM
Regardless of the reasons, it's terrible to think people murdered someone and got away with it, especially since some duels, like Nicholas's, seemed to be set up against one of the men.

What leads you to that conclusion?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Annie on October 19, 2007, 09:54:56 PM
Regardless of the reasons, it's terrible to think people murdered someone and got away with it, especially since some duels, like Nicholas's, seemed to be set up against one of the men.

What leads you to that conclusion?

Marina: ".. His regiment is taking a major part in this and will instigate a duel, and it will all end very badly."
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on October 22, 2007, 09:36:39 AM
I guess it was not considered Ilegal at that time. Nicholas II knew about the duel and decided not to take hands in the matter, so I can infer it was acceptable to settle "matters of the honor" in that way.

Indeed duels were illegal.

Where did you read that Nikolai II was aware of the duel before it had taken place and secondly, "decided" not to act on that knowledge?

Margarita

I read it in "My brother's keeper".. I was going to quote part of the article but Ashanti01 already did it.. The author also says that indeed  duels were illegal but during Alexander III's reign rules were "softened"and in case of death, the survivor could be charged with murder in a criminal court, although it was rarely done....
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on October 25, 2007, 12:06:36 PM
I also read in the article that latter in life, Marina de Hayden had an affair with GD Dimitri Pavlovich. I did not know that. Does anyopne know anything about this?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: gugussey on October 26, 2007, 06:43:21 PM
Marina mentions this affair in her autobiography.  It is a very brief mention but its intent is clear.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: loulia on October 27, 2007, 04:05:46 AM
did she said when it happened? before his wedding with Audrey I guess? She also lived in France at that time?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 28, 2007, 03:24:49 AM
Well, if it happened after the revolution she would have been married at the time .. :o  Marina was basically shunned out of Saint Petersburg for some years but returned around 1914?...perhaps it happened during this time. This also would have been around the time Felix married and he and Dmitry had their first 'out' over Irina...again all speculation on my part
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on October 29, 2007, 06:35:00 PM
Well, Marina returned in 1914, she had her affair with Dimity and after that, she got married again in May 1915.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on May 12, 2008, 05:31:37 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/marinadehayden.jpg)
Marina de Hayden in old age
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Prince_Christopher on May 13, 2008, 08:42:06 PM
Well, Marina returned in 1914, she had her affair with Dimity and after that, she got married again in May 1915.

Who did Marina marry in 1915?  How did her life play out?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on May 15, 2008, 02:09:13 PM
She married Michael Tchitchagov, Captain of the Lancers Regiment. She had a son in 1920 but their is little information avaliable after that except that her marriage ended in divorce. She never seemed to forgive Felix and as late as 1960 she still referred to him as her 'fierce enemy'. Marina died in France in 1969 at the age of eighty.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: polignac on May 18, 2008, 08:19:57 AM
Is there any genealogic information about Marina's parents?When did they born, married and died?And about her sisters too?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Elena on May 18, 2008, 11:16:23 AM
Marina's grandfather:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Heyden
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Elena on May 20, 2008, 02:22:27 PM
Her great grandfather L. Geiden:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Login_Geiden

Genealogical info on family of Frederick Heyden / Feodor Geiden, Marina’s grandfather:
http://www.ostrov.ca/drevo/family.php?famid=F456

Entry of Marina’s father Alexander Feodorovich Geiden (1859-1919) on an Imperial Navy site tells us that he finished St. Petersburg University, served first in the Army, then in the Navy, first on the Mediterranean but mainly on the Baltic. Lieutenant 1888. Member of the suite of the Czar 1908.  In Navy headquarters 1914. Orthodox, married, 4 daughters (in 1916). He died in Moscow 1919
http://li-k.narod.ru/price10.html




Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: polignac on May 22, 2008, 05:25:02 PM
Thanks :)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Alexandre64 on January 04, 2009, 02:51:25 AM
Nicolas:
(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj213/Alexandre64_2007/Youssoupov/0054-0301.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on October 04, 2009, 04:51:19 PM
I also read in the article that latter in life, Marina de Hayden had an affair with GD Dimitri Pavlovich. I did not know that. Does anyopne know anything about this?

are you kidding me?? where is the quote in her autobiography i need to see this!!

sorry but this is a big deal to me, dmitri saying he will replace nicholas as felix's brother and then having an affair with felix's dead brother's fiancee...EEK
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on November 05, 2009, 08:37:48 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/huntinggroupnicholas-1.jpg)
Nicholas is at the far right of the picture.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: thedarkone on November 05, 2009, 10:23:15 PM
It was briefly touched upon in this thread, but does anyone have any more info about his relationship with Maria "Munya" Golovina?  I don't know much about the Golovins, but how were they associated with the Yusupovs?

Also, does anyone have any specific information about dueling in Russia?  How it was performed?  When (and if) it was ever legal?  I know Pushkin died after his duel, but beyond that I'm a little in the dark on the subject.     
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Kalafrana on December 07, 2009, 03:44:17 AM
'I was rather surprised to see him in this group shot as I had believed he had resigned from his regiment after the duel with Nicholas Yusupov.'

I have also read that Manteuffel resigned his commission after the duel. However, in time of war I doubt he would have had much trouble in getting himself reinstated. After all, he was the wronged husband, and he behaved entirely honourably according to the mores of his time and class. The worst that could be said was that he was guilty of an error of judgement in insisting on a second shot.

Ann
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on December 07, 2009, 02:57:50 PM
'I was rather surprised to see him in this group shot as I had believed he had resigned from his regiment after the duel with Nicholas Yusupov.'

I have also read that Manteuffel resigned his commission after the duel. However, in time of war I doubt he would have had much trouble in getting himself reinstated. After all, he was the wronged husband, and he behaved entirely honourably according to the mores of his time and class. The worst that could be said was that he was guilty of an error of judgement in insisting on a second shot.

Ann


I always assumed Manteuffel resigned and retreated to a low profile life. The events after the duel have been made out to appear both Marina and Manteuffel were in disgrace and Marina was forced to leave the country for some years. Perhaps Manteuffel remained secluded for a brief time before returning to his former position in his regiment? Or as you mentioned he may have returned at the start of the war.

The duel itself is rather mysterious to me, for Nicholas did not fire at Manteuffel but instead fired into the air. Manteuffel insisted on the second shot so did he mean to injure Nicholas? Or did he intend to kill him? From the passionate letter Nicholas left Marina it appears he was prepared to die.

I hope to gather more from Marina's book which I just got recently. Of course since the book is in French it may take me a while to translate but I'm patient. To my disappointment there were no photos in the book, not even one of Marina herself. Still it should make for an interesting read.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/cover.jpg)

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Kalafrana on December 08, 2009, 01:25:05 AM
'The duel itself is rather mysterious to me, for Nicholas did not fire at Manteuffel but instead fired into the air. Manteuffel insisted on the second shot so did he mean to injure Nicholas? Or did he intend to kill him? From the passionate letter Nicholas left Marina it appears he was prepared to die.'

It is rather odd. Unless Manteuffel was an extremely good shot with a revolver, I don't think he actually intended to kill Nikolai - if he had, he would not have been so accurate as to drill him through the heart. And if he was a really good shot and intended to kill, why did he miss the first time?

Personally, I think the letter was Nikolai being dramatic.

Ann
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Labuanbajo on December 08, 2009, 02:12:31 PM
Here's a photo from "Lost Splendour", a family portrait of the Yusupoffs in 1901, Nicholas second from left.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v601/Larantuka/th_Yusupov.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: katmaxoz on December 10, 2009, 04:26:17 AM
Prince Nicholas in an electric car (see, we've gone backwards over the years:)

(http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/31329/2978055780102753164S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2978055780102753164hxzXlI)

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on December 10, 2009, 11:31:16 AM
Prince Nicholas in an electric car (see, we've gone backwards over the years:)

http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/31329/2978055780102753164S600x600Q85.jpg (http://inlinethumb34.webshots.com/31329/2978055780102753164S600x600Q85.jpg)




haha! were these cars common then? it's quite small
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: katmaxoz on December 10, 2009, 04:33:46 PM
Prince Nicholas in an electric car (see, we've gone backwards over the years:)






haha! were these cars common then? it's quite small

Plaything of the Rich I would imagine.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Valmont on December 16, 2009, 11:56:17 AM
They were not common. It was more of a "Novelty" for the rich..
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Sasha_Katerina on December 16, 2009, 01:18:09 PM
it almost look like a toy! i wonder if they have them in auto museums anywhere it looks like fun
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: greekroyalist on January 08, 2010, 03:12:03 PM
I found this photo in a book about Rasputin. If it's the Yussupov family, i guess Nicholas is in the middle, and Felix sitting next to him with the navy suit..

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0X18t-8ZkNM/S0ecoW-Gn0I/AAAAAAAAAnQ/K9BA_EHL_-U/s1600/nikolas-felix-zenaida.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on January 08, 2010, 03:23:41 PM
Thank you! i never seen it so big!. Nicholas looks dashing and Felix so cute!
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on July 25, 2010, 01:26:04 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/zenaida/youngzenaida/hpqscan0039-1.jpg)
Felix, Zenaida and Nicholas.

Posted previously in this thread however when I reorganized my photobucket account, links were broken.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on July 25, 2010, 03:12:04 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/zenaida/youngzenaida/hpqscan0042-1-1.jpg)
Nicholas, Felix and Zenaida
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on September 21, 2010, 09:44:31 AM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/Nicholas/1906amanteuffel001-2.jpg)
Arwid Manteuffel in the middle of the back row. 1906
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on October 04, 2010, 09:15:32 AM
Young Nicholas

(http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/927/dzfgzset.jpg) (http://img299.imageshack.us/i/dzfgzset.jpg/)

 
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on July 19, 2011, 07:01:18 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/nicholasyusupovest19001905-1.jpg)
Nicholas Yusupov
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on January 10, 2012, 08:28:03 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/Nicholas/NicholasFelixchildrenphoto1890s-1.jpg)
Nicholas and Felix Yusupov
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: katmaxoz on September 27, 2012, 04:18:05 PM
Here's a minature of Nikolai that is coming up for sale soon:

(http://i48.tinypic.com/vmsw1k.jpg)

It's lot 3589 in the militaria section of this auction: http://www.hermann-historica.de/db2_en/onlinekatalogeneu/militarianeu.html  if you want more detail on the piece.

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on September 27, 2012, 09:59:22 PM
Thank you Kathy for sharing this beautiful find! It has to be one of the best miniatures of Nicholas I have seen.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 12, 2013, 10:32:32 AM
I do wonder what Marina looked like in her youth...anybody ?
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on June 13, 2013, 12:58:31 PM
only photo of Marina as a young woman I have ever been able to find.

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/youssoupov/Nicholas/marinayoung.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Kalafrana on June 13, 2013, 01:15:52 PM
To judge from the hair, that must have been taken in the 1920s.

Ann
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Vecchiolarry on June 13, 2013, 01:59:18 PM
Hi,

I would say that Nicholas was 100 times better looking than Felix ever was......
He appears stronger and more intelligent to me.

Larry
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on June 14, 2013, 01:33:58 AM
I agree,

Nicholas was handsome with a sensuous mouth, Felix was too pretty...

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: JamesAPrattIII on August 12, 2013, 08:50:00 PM
In the book "The Foe Within" says in Russia by the late 1800s duels between civilians were outlawed but duels between officers were allowed and in some cases mandatory.

Ron Moe's book on Rasputin has an account of this duel and the events leading up to it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on August 13, 2013, 02:47:51 AM
I should look for it.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 09, 2013, 08:47:49 PM
I'm not sure how accurate this is, but it's an interesting article with images of Marina Hayden, I've never seen before.

http://archive.woodbridgelibrary.org/Archive/TheWoodbridgeLeader/1927/1927-06-17/pg_0014.pdf
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 09, 2013, 10:33:43 PM
Wow ! Interesting...
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Svetabel on October 10, 2013, 01:32:48 AM
I'm not sure how accurate this is, but it's an interesting article with images of Marina Hayden, I've never seen before.

http://archive.woodbridgelibrary.org/Archive/TheWoodbridgeLeader/1927/1927-06-17/pg_0014.pdf

That's something! Great find. Marina look like a doll actually...
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 10, 2013, 10:09:53 AM
I had only seen one photo of Marina in her youth, and two of her in old age. So imagine my surprise when I saw this article with more than one photo!

Read the article, and wasn't sure if it was true, but I'm inclined to believe there was some truth there. Most of it seems to fit the what is known of the scandal, although there wasn't much known about her life after the scandal except she eventually remarried, had a child, and divorced. There was something sad in knowing of how 'ruined' she really was after the 1908 scandal and duel. Even sadder to see never really appeared to find any kind of happiness or stability in her life.

Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 10, 2013, 01:11:01 PM
I think she also wrote her own memoirs and was published in French.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: rudy3 on October 10, 2013, 02:04:42 PM
See an old post by Penny Wilson here:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=725.msg232003#msg232003

(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1053/fe73.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/fe73.jpg/)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Ooops, the picture came out rather big, sorry for that!

Rudy
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: amelia on October 10, 2013, 02:17:33 PM
I have the book - there were only 50 copies published and I am lucky I have one. She says very little about her life after the scandal. In fact the only thing she says is that she decided to work as a theater actress, but when her father heard of it, sent her more money. She does not say that she married and had a daughter.Do you know who she married and where is her daughter?

Amelia
(Eva McDonald)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: amelia on October 10, 2013, 02:28:47 PM
Sorry - I read the article again, and she mentions her husband's name and that she had a son, not a daughter. I am not sure if I believe in all that the article says.

Her book is written in a very sad tone, and she does not seem to be someone who would lead such a dissipated life....

Amelia
(Eva McDonald)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: rudy3 on October 10, 2013, 02:38:53 PM
Funny, or maybe strange: in 1969 the book was translated into Finnish and published under the title Rubiinit ennustavat onnettomuutta, but I guess this will not help many of you.
The only reason I can imagine why in Finnish: Marina spent some time in her younger years in Helsinki....
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on October 10, 2013, 04:51:34 PM
I had the chance to obtain the book some time ago. Was very, very difficult to locate, and as amelia commented the undertone of the book was a very sad one. Marina was elderly when she wrote it, yet many of events she described mirrored the thoughts of a young girl. There was a sense of regret, remorse and lingering grief over the events which undoubtedly molded her fate.

I'm suspicious over the accuracy of the article, but many of the things it mentioned do add up. After the scandal and death of Nicholas Youssoupoff, Marina was outcast by society. She spent some time in a sanitarium recovering from the shattered emotional state she was left after the death of Nicholas. After this she traveled all over Europe not returning to Russia until five years later when her mother passed. Considering her reputation was tarnished, it's likely Marina did engage in some affairs believing she had nothing else left to lose. I've read she had a minor romance with Grand Duke Dmitri. She eventually married, but in her book she hardly mentions her husband or son, if I recall correctly.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 10, 2013, 06:30:18 PM
That does sound a bit suspicious.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Превед on October 11, 2013, 06:23:11 AM
Funny, or maybe strange: in 1969 the book was translated into Finnish and published under the title Rubiinit ennustavat onnettomuutta, but I guess this will not help many of you.
The only reason I can imagine why in Finnish: Marina spent some time in her younger years in Helsinki....

Interesting that it's been translated into Finnish. Marina de Heiden's grandfather was after all governor-general of Finland for 18 years and she grew up on Helsinki's Senate Square and the Heidens' family estate in Juustila / юстила by the Saima Canal just north of Vyborg, then part of the Grand Duchy of Finland. So she grew up in a quite Finlandic environment, but probably without ever learning to speak either Finnish or Swedish.

Add to that her life in St. Petersburg and Baron Arvid (it seems that the original German spelling of his name is Arwed) Manteuffel's Baltic background, and you get an aristocratic milieu centred on the Gulf of Finland, with Marina's life offering some interesting parallells and vivid contrasts to that of her contemporary compatriot Edith Södergran.



Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Превед on October 11, 2013, 06:45:15 AM
Marina de Heiden's grandfather was after all governor-general of Finland for 18 years and she grew up on Helsinki's Senate Square? or in the President's Castle?

Ah, it seems like the Governor-General's official residence was the present Government Guest House on the Southern Esplanade.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Eric_Lowe on October 11, 2013, 12:05:37 PM
She was a fascinating women.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: rudy3 on October 11, 2013, 12:21:10 PM
The Governor-General's residence was indeed on the Southern Esplanade in downtown Helsinki. Today there are the official State Banquet rooms. The Government Guest House is located in the suburb Munkkiniemi, close to the President's residence.

The State Banquet Rooms are called the "Smolna". It got its name after the revolution, when the building was used by the Finnish Red Guards. Of course you understand the connection with the Petrograd's Smolna... Even today here in Helsinki we talk about the "Smolna". Its official name: Valtioneuvoston juhlahuoneisto. At least for foreigners "Smolna" sounds easier to pronounce or is easier to remember.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: Превед on October 11, 2013, 03:42:07 PM
Its official name: Valtioneuvoston juhlahuoneisto. At least for foreigners "Smolna" sounds easier to pronounce or is easier to remember.

Haha, yes; as a Swedish speaker, I am very grateful that Finland is officially bilingual. Statsrådets festvåning, that is something I can remember! (Though I think I will remember the juhla part as a cognate of Nordic jul, Yule or Christmas, according to what I've read!) When I visited Finland (great country, loved it!) speaking only Swedish (and trying to avoid speaking English because I was there as part of an inter-Nordic cultural exchange), I could in a way imagine what it was like for the Heidens there, confronted with lots of unintelligible (but fascinating!) Finnish (and also for them: Swedish) and clinging to a language perceived by some as imperialistic, like Russian was back then.

BTW does anybody know if Marina's grandfather the Governor-General Fyodor Logginovich Heiden spoke or at least understood Swedish? I wouldn't be surprised if he did, considering that he himself was born in Finland, his father was Dutch-born and his mother born in Norway. (Also from a naval family, the Danish Akeleyes, which had settled in Denmark's "colony" Norway.)

If he did, but still supported Finnification and Russification, it is interesting that that contradiction is reflected in the Imperial couple during his tenure as governor-general. Maria Fyodorovna was known to act as the Slavophile Alexander III's interpreter on holiday in Finland, urging him to respect Finnish national feeling etc.
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on January 28, 2014, 12:38:51 PM
Nicholas Yusupov

(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/_389_zpse2eb03ee.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on September 26, 2014, 12:33:40 PM
(http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a388/ashanti01/8d061d96-ab5f-40c4-acb6-6fdf3f709dd4_zpsb0dc6ee7.jpg)
Nicholas as a toddler with his parents
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on September 12, 2015, 01:11:42 PM
Painting of Marina de Hayden by Helene Schjerfbeck,  "Emigrantti" 1917

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/53/d9/c4/53d9c41a469bdbe7ccc3612941fd88d1.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on February 11, 2016, 08:30:34 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/a6/bc/d6/a6bcd67f947090e0907d97d835eda2ed.jpg)
Nicholas with his mother

source http://klimbims.deviantart.com/
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on February 13, 2016, 07:56:10 AM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/4d/8e/d9/4d8ed924b4bbc79432d7c143414fc9d6.jpg)
Nicholas with his parents. Love the quality of this photo.
Arkhangelskoye museum
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on February 16, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/21/1a/1a/211a1ae3a0bbf5bbb1642ab5f97a1d91.jpg)

Nicholas
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on February 25, 2016, 05:59:43 PM
Zenaida and Nicholas.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b1/f7/31/b1f73163e469752366a723eba841a9cb.jpg)
Title: Re: Nikolai Yusupov, elder brother of Felix, his life and death
Post by: ashanti01 on April 09, 2016, 09:24:57 PM
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/b9/a7/81/b9a7814ab9af13de5388bd16ff85471d.jpg)
Baby Nicholas in the arms of his mother, Zenaida. 1884.
source: Arkhangelskoye Museum