Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Windsors => Topic started by: alixaannencova on September 13, 2006, 04:13:55 PM

Title: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 13, 2006, 04:13:55 PM
I think Louise is one of the most misunderstood members of the RF primarily because she herself chose to distance herself and her daughters from the fold so to speak. I do not doubt that she was indeed shy, as QV herself was, and there were many others besides, who suffered such agonies within the family, but I feel that there is more to Louise than this stereotype footnote that she is given in so many biographies/memoirs.

Both Victoria and Maud have finally and quite justly emerged from beneath similar labels in recent years, so why shouldn't we at least try to reassess the enigma that is Louise? She may not have been a great beauty or a vanguard of the belle epoche, she may not have left a resounding legacy as a member of the RF, but perhaps in retrospect, through her quiet life she represents  a very human side to Royal life.

There is evidence that suggests that though she preferred to remain out of the limelight, Louise guarded her Royal status tenaciously, and that of her daughters also. Are these clues to what lay beneath the surface. Was she really such a 'cut and dry' insipid and retiring character as countless biographers have lead us to believe, or was there more to her?

There must be much more to Louise than her acomplishmets as a pianist, aritist and angler. Her daughters were both appointed Councillors of State and Alexandra in particular, was an amazing woman herself (I can't believe she doesn't have a thread of her own!) Perhaps, Louise had pertinent reasons for keeping her girls away from the freneticism of their grandparents' homes. But both seem to have grown into healthy and highly individual women. Alexandra was, like Queen Maud, regarded as one of best dressed Royals of her day and yet she was grounded enough to write of her experiences as a Nurse. Maud Southesk is a little harder to pin down, though I love the idea of her causing explosive expletives from Uncle George when she turned up at Windor, having dared to have her hair shingled.

I am trying to find out so many things about Louise. Does anyone know the identities of the claivoyants she used after Macduff died? I believe her confidente Elizabeth Gordon wrote about the seances but I have never been able to find out more about her ineterst in this. Any photographs of Louise would be greatly appreciated. Most especially I have tried in vain to find any of her taken at the time of her father's coronation, and that of George as well.     

 

 

 

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 13, 2006, 05:44:34 PM
Please excuse the dreadful spelling on my first message, but I am just getting use to a French keyboard again!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on September 13, 2006, 06:24:08 PM
This is very interesting, alixaannencova.  :)

I have always wanted to know more about Louise and, as you have said, there is not a lot of information out there.  She was clearly a talented lady and was she really as retiring as we have been lead to believe or was this only with members of her family?

What intrigues me most about her is her is the way, as soon as she married, she seemed to distance herself and her children as far from Bertie and Alix as she possibly could.  I would love to know the fully story on this and the clairvoyant story as well!

I agree with alixaannencova -- there was far more to Louise that is generally known.

I shall try to post some pictures later but, unfortunately, I lost almost all when my computer went "phut".  >:(

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on September 13, 2006, 06:55:24 PM
Sorry about your photos Grace.  :(

There used to be a lot of info on Louise but those threads were lost in the switchover.

One of the more exciting (though not in a good way) events in Louise's life was the shipwreck of the Delphi (or Delhi?) in 1912. The entire family was on the way to Egypt when they're shipped foundered off the coast. The family was in lifeboats but Alexandra was swept overboard and almost drowned. The family finally straggled ashore, exhausted, cold and wet. They continued on but Fife developed lung problems and quickly worsened and died.

Louise was pretty unknown to the public when she died. One paper even published a photo of her aunt Louise in the obituary--Louise was not only 20 years old but she was more active still at that point (1931) than her niece. She did pop up at some events in later years--her brother's coronation, some exhibition openings, Peace Day parades, and the Thanksgiving events for her brother's illness in 1929, but had mostly retired from the public eye.

There were a lot of foreboding editorials following Eddy's death regarding her possible ascension to the throne. At the time of Eddy's death, George was unmarried and still very weak from typhoid. He was cast down into depression and there was fear that he himself would die before marrying and having an heir, thus leaving Louise (and her daughter Alexandra, a mere Lady) next in line to succeed. This seems to be part of the reason why speculation immediately turned to marrying George off. The thought of a 'listless' Queen Louise succeeding Queen Victoria didn't fill many with optimism.

I don't think she was a particularly interesting character but how many of us actually are? She seems to have been a relatively normal person who married happily (and for love), had 2 children and a pretty quiet and contented life. Except for the miscarriage (or stillbirth) of a son and the relatively early death of her husband, her life was fairly unblemished by unhappiness or excitement.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 10:17:56 PM
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far. I was wanting very much to see some info and stories on Louise, the Princess Royal on this thread. She interests me very much, not just as Eddy's sister, but as a Princess and daughter and sister of Kings. Unlike many, I don't find her looks to be at all displeasing. I have read her and her sisters being described as ''narrowskulled''. Personally I don't mind this look at all. I find it very elegant.

Louise had a son named Alastair Duff, Marquess of Macduff who was born on 16th June 1890. He was stillborn. This MUST have been a great trial for her and her husband. Especially since it was their first baby and only son they would have.

I find the evidence that Louise was once viewed as a future Queen fascinating. I don't think she would have been that unsuitable if it was indeed her destiny.

Imagine if George had died unmarried soon after Eddy. We woud have had a Queen Louise (if she had chosen to use that name). She could have chosen to use her second name Victoria and been Queen Victoria II. But it was not to be thankfully we had George V and his descendents.

I think the monarchy would still have survived with Louise as Queen.

I will find some pictures and post them soon of the Princess Royal alone and with her family.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on September 13, 2006, 10:22:53 PM
Sorry about your photos Grace.  :(

Thanks for that, GDE.

At least, a couple of days earlier, I had put all my Eddy photos etc. on a CD, otherwise I would have gone totally ballistic, had I lost those.  >:(
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 10:30:45 PM
Here are some pictures I have gathered of HRH Princess Louise the Princess Royal and Duchess of Fife:

(http://s105.photobucket.com/albums/m205/HRHFeliciaVictoria/th_97dce3dc.jpg)

My avatar at another forum

(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/feliciavictorianumberthree/mostlyroyalty/fife.jpg)

The Princess Royal, Louise, Duchess of Fife, and the Princesses Alexandra and Maud who lived next door to the Countess of Dundonald in Portman Square

(http://www.iln.org.uk/iln_years/year/images/specials/1889weddfife.jpg)

(http://www.theduffhouseroyalgolfclub.co.uk/images/plduke.jpg)

(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/feliciavictorianumberthree/mostlyroyalty/abcfife.jpg)

On their wedding date

I wrote this on another forum:

It is nice that the place where the Highland Games are held and witnessed by the Royal Family is named after Princess Louise the Princess Royal and Duchess of Fife (she was the eldest daughter of Edward VII and she is the Present Queen's Great Aunt) - and her husband the first Duke of Fife.

I like Scottish aristocracy and the Royal Family coming together.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 10:33:14 PM
Sorry about your photos Grace.  :(

Thanks for that, GDE.

At least, a couple of days earlier, I had put all my Eddy photos etc. on a CD, otherwise I would have gone totally ballistic, had I lost those.  >:(

I have put absolutely ALL of my Eddy and Eddy related photos in photobuckets, because I do not think I could cope if my computer lost everything and I had to start from scratch. No I would definitely go ballistic.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 10:42:25 PM
Some more photos: I'll include any that include Louise and her children

Enjoy!

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/alex3jhj.jpg)

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/alex-f.jpg)

Queen Alexandra with her grand-daughters Maud and Alexandra (daughters of her eldest daughter Louise, the Princess Royal)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Obesemia/091.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Obesemia/walf.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Obesemia/MarlHouse.jpg)

(http://www.btinternet.com/~sbishop100/alix3.jpg)

(http://www.btinternet.com/~sbishop100/group7.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v471/gurutiek/playingcards.jpg)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/bc/Louise_Princess_Royal.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 10:54:50 PM
Grown up Louise Victoria Alexandra Dagmar

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/fife-000002.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/fife-000001.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/28293v0fy.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/Alixgirls.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/10083769a.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/10083768a.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 11:11:30 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/80784_128528.jpg)

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/LouiseAlexandraQueenAlexandra.jpg)

Queen Alexandra, with Princess Louise the Princess Royal and her daughter Lady Alexandra Duff, later Her Highness Princess Alexandra of Fife and also through marriage Princess Arthur of Connaught.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/10044460a.jpg)

Drawing of Eddy's mother and three sisters

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/80792_128536.jpg)

A family portrait after Eddy's death, his parents with his four living siblings and their spouses - the Duke of Fife, King Haakon VII of Norway and Queen Mary. I'm not sure who the child is.

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/victoriabritain1819e.jpg)

Louise must be here somewhere

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/queen-358959.jpg)

Queen Alexandra, Princess Louise the Princess Royal and Eddy's other grandmother Queen Louise of Denmark

(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f143/KimstaLaBellaRegina/LouiseVictoriaMaude1883.jpg)

Portrait of Eddy's sisters Victoria, Maud and Louise

(http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e392/princelieven/Victorians/VictoriaRoyalTree.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/booboogbs/LouiseEddy1880_1.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v391/booboogbs/THEFAMILYOFQUEENVICTORIA.jpg)

Must be here somewhere

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/CCF20112005_00000.jpg)

In the little picture inset with parents and siblings

(http://vi49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/queen%20alexandra/50a.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 13, 2006, 11:12:44 PM
(http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m67/feliciavictorianumberthree/2a9535a3.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 14, 2006, 02:23:16 AM
Thank you so much Basilforever for the wonderful photographs...what a collection!! :) I had no idea about the mix up of the obituary photograph with Louise Argyll either, Granduchessella!

I think her marriage to Macduff was very happy. He appears to have been a very strong character, maybe the age gap indicates that Louise was looking for a steady and dependable rock of a man,a father figure pehaps. Apparently Macduff could be very brusque and matter of fact. His immense wealth was obviously an added advantage, though some of his ventures in to mercantile deals did not always work out for the best. He got mixed up with Earl Farquhar, who became a very good friend of the Fifes, but after Farquhar died leaving a mountain of debts, Louise was obliged to arrange an auction of art works to settle a portion of debts. Whether she had owed Farqhar money at the time of his death has never been fully explained, but she was apparently an executor of his will. I should imagine if she did have to auction off a few old masters, it must have come as quite  shock and been rather embarrassing for her and the RF.

With regards to her looks....

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 14, 2006, 02:44:10 AM
I think Louise was probably rather striking. In several photographs she looks quite attractive, espeacially just after her marriage but most do not do her justice. Perhaps she was not as photogenic as Toria or Maud.

Having such a beautiful mother as Alix can't have been easy either. Always compared to the eteranlly youthful and undeniable beauty of the family. Does any one have details/photographs of East Sheen Lodge. I wonder if still stands under a different name or was demolished. It hardly seems to appear in any memoirs/bios after George and May engagement by the pond!

I have read so often that Louise suffered from 'mental upset'. What does this really mean? Did she suffer from depression or was there something else that plagued her? The birth of a stillborn son must have been dreadful, but she went on to have the girls who turned out fine. Pope Hennessey described Louise as apathetic, a term that was frequently used to sum up Eddy too. But as we have seen, he is now being seen as anything but, through rational revisied assessments of his character. 

Does anyone know if her journals/diaries have ever been cited. I know she kept some as she lost the 1911 one during the sinking of the Delhi as well as a jewel case. 

Has anyone considered the possibility that she suffered from porphyria. I know it is a long shot and that it is a bit of an old hat subject, but it might explain her so called 'mental upset' as described by David Duff in his bio of Alexandra, and also her 'delicate health.'

I am convinced there is more to Louise!
 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 14, 2006, 04:52:49 AM
Thank you so much Basilforever for the wonderful photographs...what a collection!! :) I had no idea about the mix up of the obituary photograph with Louise Argyll either, Granduchessella!

I think her marriage to Macduff was very happy. He appears to have been a very strong character, maybe the age gap indicates that Louise was looking for a steady and dependable rock of a man,a father figure pehaps. Apparently Macduff could be very brusque and matter of fact. His immense wealth was obviously an added advantage, though some of his ventures in to mercantile deals did not always work out for the best. He got mixed up with Earl Farquhar, who became a very good friend of the Fifes, but after Farquhar died leaving a mountain of debts, Louise was obliged to arrange an auction of art works to settle a portion of debts. Whether she had owed Farqhar money at the time of his death has never been fully explained, but she was apparently an executor of his will. I should imagine if she did have to auction off a few old masters, it must have come as quite  shock and been rather embarrassing for her and the RF.

With regards to her looks....



Thank you alixaannencova. I am very happy that you enjoyed a small sample of my collection. I didn't search through my photobuckets, I just posted photos that I previously posted on another forum. I'm a big fan of Louise myself. She should get more attention, esp. since she was the PRINCESS ROYAL. The highest positon for a female royal other than Queen.

I don't understand why Louise would have to auction anything to repay some debts of hers or her husbands, she could just have got some money from her parents, or husband's family or something. :-\

It seems a bit strange to think of the Princess Royal auctioning off personal items, esp. in that day and age.

I think Louise was beautiful. She had such high cheekbones and a good figure. I think all of the Wales girls are underrated in the looks department, because they are too often compared with their mother who was just supernaturally beautiful, she was one in a million or several million really.

Louise bore her royal status and blood with impeccable dignity and poise.

I agree with your comments about her husband. He seems like a very manly man, with a perhaps dependable appeal for Louise. She definitely married for love and she is very lucky she escaped and had her own family unlike sister Toria.

I feel sorry for Louise for the loss of her son Alastair though. :'( Eddy was alive when it happened in 1890. He could have helped comfort his little sister.  :) Of course I am very jealous of Louise, since she knew Eddy her whole life.  :D

I'm sure Eddy was a wonderful big brother to have.

I remember I once read a story about Louise's husband the Duke of Fife dancing a reel with Queen Victoria at Balmoral or something like that. Or am I thinking of Lord Lorne/Duke of Argyll? :-\





Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 14, 2006, 05:16:08 AM
I think Louise was probably rather striking. In several photographs she looks quite attractive, espeacially just after her marriage but most do not do her justice. Perhaps she was not as photogenic as Toria or Maud.

Having such a beautiful mother as Alix can't have been easy either. Always compared to the eteranlly youthful and undeniable beauty of the family. Does any one have details/photographs of East Sheen Lodge. I wonder if still stands under a different name or was demolished. It hardly seems to appear in any memoirs/bios after George and May engagement by the pond!

I have read so often that Louise suffered from 'mental upset'. What does this really mean? Did she suffer from depression or was there something else that plagued her? The birth of a stillborn son must have been dreadful, but she went on to have the girls who turned out fine. Pope Hennessey described Louise as apathetic, a term that was frequently used to sum up Eddy too. But as we have seen, he is now being seen as anything but, through rational revisied assessments of his character. 

Does anyone know if her journals/diaries have ever been cited. I know she kept some as she lost the 1911 one during the sinking of the Delhi as well as a jewel case. 

Has anyone considered the possibility that she suffered from porphyria. I know it is a long shot and that it is a bit of an old hat subject, but it might explain her so called 'mental upset' as described by David Duff in his bio of Alexandra, and also her 'delicate health.'

I am convinced there is more to Louise!
 

I too am convinced there is more to Louise.

As for Porphyria, I think not. Isn't insanity a sympton of that? Maybe Louise had 'mental upset' in that she was very sensitive. I'm sure the death of her son, her brother, and her husband were VERY VERY trying for her to survive and cope with.

I think she was more striking than she is given credit for, and I think that perhaps she was not as photogenic as her sisters.

As for East Sheen lodge today, I don't know.

But check out this link to read something connected to it:

http://www.theduffhouseroyalgolfclub.co.uk/history.html

THE DUFF HOUSE ROYAL GOLF CLUB

Only 26 Golf Clubs have the Royal Title

And here's the Duke of Fife's signature, under the Duchess of Albany's.

(http://www.argosybooks.com/-autographs/-ABs/albanyduchessof.jpg)

Louise was not apathetic. Eddy was not apathetic. These are lies.

I don't know about her journals. I would be ecstatic to read them for the EDDY content, as well as other things. :P

I had no idea she lost a jewel case on the shipwreck! What was in it? That's shocking. Luckily the Fife Tiara still exists.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 14, 2006, 05:22:51 AM
Many of the pictures I have posted have been automatically downsized.

In order for you to see them in their full size - right click on the image, click properties, copy and paste the URL address into a new window and see the full picture unedited.

Here is a GIANT lovely picture of Louise at this link:

http://image30.webshots.com/31/2/34/77/229523477AsjLbP_fs.jpg

 :) ;D

Okay, above link didn't work -

try this one then click on the pictures of Louise, then click on ''Full Size''

http://community.webshots.com/album/225398896DktBXC
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 14, 2006, 05:29:01 AM
Some more pictures of Louise and family:

(http://www.bagshotvillage.org.uk/bpark/alex.jpg)

Louise's beautiful daughter Princess Alexandra Duchess of Fife wearing the Fife Tiara and her coronation robes

Prince Arthur of Connaught
(1883-1938)
This page is about the son of Prince Arthur, son of the Duke of Connaught.  See here for the Duke.

Prince Arthur married Alexandra, Duchess of Fife in 1913.  They had one son, Alistair Arthur, born the following year.

A correspondent has kindly sent me this picture of Princess Alexandra. The signed photo and a gift had been given to someone she had worked with in a hospital during the war.

Prince Arthur died four years before his father and so never inherited the title of Duke of Connaught, which passed to his son Alistair, who thus became the 2nd Duke of Connaught.   

One reader has enquired whether a biography of Prince Arthur was ever written, do you know?

A family tree is here.

http://www.bagshotvillage.org.uk/bpark/son.htm
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 14, 2006, 05:29:59 AM
The Farquhar debts amounted £400,000 in 1923, and he had been an undeclared bankrupt. I think he lived way beyond his means and Macduff's finances were in some way tied up to liabilities.

Louise recieved a Parliamentary annuity of £6,000 a year from 1901 onwards, £3,000 before then, but I have no idea how much she recieved of her father's private fortune. I know that Macduff started selling considerable portions of his landholdings during the first decade of the 20th century, perhaps to invest the procceeds with Farquhar.

Porphyria can manifest in various ways, not just insanity. It can cause severe stomach pains and rashes. It was just a thought.

I often wonder that Louise and Eddy may have been quite close. Louise certainly did not seem close to parents or other siblings.But she and Eddy seem somehow quite alike in looks. Perhaps there is more to look in to there.

I sometimes ponder that Alexandra did not in some way transfer some blame for her lameness on Louise, due in part to complications that surrounded her birth. I'd love to psychoanalyse their relationship!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 14, 2006, 05:56:43 AM
Macduff did indeed dance a reel with QV! She really liked him, no doubt because he reminded her a little of no nonsense John Brown.

I know of no biographies of Prince Arthur of Connaught I am afraid, though I think Princess Arthur merits one herself! I wish I could get hold of her book about nursing though!

I think the tiara Louise is wearing in the 1907(?) photograph with Alexandra and Toria was amongst the pieces lost in the shipwreck.

I would love to know if any photos are around of Louise and Alastair or even the present Duke of Fife as a wee bairn! Never seen any at all which I think very strange and frustrating. Never seen any photos post War, except the Buckingham P. one on the steps to the gardens with all the family and the Times Obituary one, which is very murky and badly taken. 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 14, 2006, 06:50:00 AM
http://www.bagshotvillage.org.uk/bpark/tree.htm#chn

A good family tree

(http://www.theconnaughts.zoomshare.com/album/Prince%20Arthur%20of%20Connaught%20%26%20The%20Duchess%20of%20Fife/images/0b9627506bd7a52d0c738f5267b494e9_11337392360/image.jpg)

Louise's daughter Princess Alexandra Duchess of Fife

(http://www.theconnaughts.zoomshare.com/album/Prince%20Arthur%20of%20Connaught%20%26%20The%20Duchess%20of%20Fife/images/b26e27337d5b2e9e4b86d7b7f2b6a8cd_11337391680/image.jpg)

Louise's daughter Princess Alexandra with her son Prince Arthur of Connaught and their son Alistair

(had to remove picture, it didn't work)

Louise and husband are in this one

(http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9G_RqoHKQlFXF8B3JGjzbkF;_ylu=X3oDMTA4NDgyNWN0BHNlYwNwcm9m/SIG=1234scd7h/EXP=1158314631/**http%3a//www.bagshotvillage.org.uk/bpark/alex.jpg)

Princess Alexandra of Fife

H.R.H.
Princess Arthur
of Connaught

1891-1959


full name:   Alexandra Victoria Alberta Edwina Louise, née Duff  
 birth: 1891.05.17 at East Sheen Lodge, Richmond, Surrey
 father:   Alexander William George Duff, Duke of Fife
 mother:   Princess Louise Victoria Alexandra Dagmar (The Princess Royal)
 marriage: 1913.10.15  Prince Arthur Frederick Patrick Albert of Connaught
at St. James Palace, London
 children: 1914 Alastair Arthur (Windsor) (2nd Duke of Connaught & Strathearn)
 death: 1959.02.26 at her home in Avenue Road, St John's Wood, London
(buried: Mar Lodge Chapel, Braemar, Aberdeenshire).

Titles:
  1891.05.17 Lady Alexandra Duff
  1905.11.09 Princess, with the style of Her Highness (H.H. Princess Alexandra of Fife)
  1912.12.29 Duchess of Fife and Countess of Macduff, in the County of Banff , Peerage of the United Kingdom (H.H. The Duchess of Fife)
 1913.10.15  H.R.H. Princess Arthur of Connaught
    
British Empire/Commonwealth Orders and Awards:
   RRC
 1926.06.12 GCStJ
 1935.06.03 King George V Royal Family Order, 4th class

Honorary Military Appointments
 
1939.06.10  Colonel-in-Chief, Royal Army Pay Corps
 
Links
 
Prince Arthur of Connaught & The Duchess of Fife, by Scott Harewood (The Connaught's - Postcards of a Royal Family)
 
http://www.theconnaughts.zoomshare.com/1.shtml/Prince%20Arthur%20of%20Connaught%20&%20The%20Duchess%20of%20Fife/pages/2

and other pages

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on September 14, 2006, 07:12:48 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/queenanne2005/Vintage%20Royals/97dce3dc.jpg)

Is this the George III Fringe Tiara around the neck of lovely Louise?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v367/queenanne2005/Vintage%20Royals/69f98498.jpg)

No, this was a wedding gift to Louise. It could be worn as a tiara or necklace.

The image of Louise, Toria and QA--with Louise wearing the floral tiara--was taken at Daisy Connaught's wedding in 1905.

The multiple ones of the entire family on the steps were taken to commemorate Bertie & Alexandra's 25th wedding anniversary in 1888.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 14, 2006, 07:22:37 AM
What then has happened to that Fringe tiara/necklace that Louise received as a wedding present? :-\

It is very beautiful, it looks like the George III Fringe Tiara to me, but I believe you it isn't that one.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 14, 2006, 07:51:22 AM
Grandduchessella you are amazing!!

The Connaught/Sweden wedding photograph! Thank you for clarifying the date for me :). Do you happen to know if indeed the Floral tiara was in fact lost in the shipwreck as I have never seen any other photographs of it at all. I think Louise tended to favour the 'Fife' more. Is there any history available about the 'Flora' ?l

Also, sorry I meant the family group photograph taken on the steps that I found in Jan van der Kiste's book 'Edward VII's children'. I haven't my copy to hand but I remember it was taken in about 1920 and is some sort of presentation. The extended family are all standing on the steps behing George V and Queen Mary, including Helen of Albany, Princesses Beatrice and Christian etc and at the end on the right Louise looking away as if distracted by someone or something out of view.

Also do you know if there are any photographs out there of Louise at her daughters' weddings and those of Mary/Harewood, George VI/ Queen Elizabeth, Louise/Gustaf, Edwina/Louis. I jope I am not being a nuisance but I find Louise so elusive! :-\

 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on September 14, 2006, 10:13:20 AM
And some more.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10085204a.jpg)(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10085208a.jpg)
Mother and her two daughters and Princess Maud pictured allone.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10085207a.jpg)(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10083787a.jpg)
And the Fife girls pictures with their famous grandparents King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra,

RN
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on September 14, 2006, 10:18:17 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10075334a.jpg) (http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10074898a.jpg)
A young Princess Louise of Wales and pictures with her two sisters Princess Victoria of Wales and Princess Maud (later Queen of Norway).
 
RN
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on September 14, 2006, 10:23:14 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10085209a.jpg)
  DUKE of FIFE with his wife Princess Louise Victoria, eldest daughter of Edward VII/
And their two daughters with their husbands.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10085168a.jpg)(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10085214a-1.jpg)
The Duke of Connaught, with Princess Alexandra daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Fife.
Earl of Southesk and his wife, Princess Maud, daughter of the Duke and Duchess of Fife.

RN   
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 14, 2006, 11:00:05 AM
Thank you for sharing your photographs Royal Netherlands :D

I love the lithograph and the one taken on board the Dehli too. So sad to think that just weaks later Louise would be widowed.

I'm so glad all you kind contibutors share my feelings that Louise deserves her own thread. I know she made little public impact, but she was still a prominent member of the RF.

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: PrinceEddy1864 on September 14, 2006, 11:52:21 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/10075334a.jpg)
Great pic but this is Toria.
Here is Louise from that sitting and one of all of the Wales kids that I just love.
(http://worldroots.com/brigitte/gifs8/louisebritain1867.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y28/loali2/kids/scan.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on September 14, 2006, 12:47:34 PM
Grandduchessella you are amazing!!

The Connaught/Sweden wedding photograph! Thank you for clarifying the date for me :). Do you happen to know if indeed the Floral tiara was in fact lost in the shipwreck as I have never seen any other photographs of it at all. I think Louise tended to favour the 'Fife' more. Is there any history available about the 'Flora' ?l

Also, sorry I meant the family group photograph taken on the steps that I found in Jan van der Kiste's book 'Edward VII's children'. I haven't my copy to hand but I remember it was taken in about 1920 and is some sort of presentation. The extended family are all standing on the steps behing George V and Queen Mary, including Helen of Albany, Princesses Beatrice and Christian etc and at the end on the right Louise looking away as if distracted by someone or something out of view.

You're welcome. I didn't mean to seem I was correcting you about the group photo, I was just remarking on the occasion of the one set--as you can tell I like to note the occasion photos were taken.  :) I don't have my copy of EVII's Children but I think you might be referring to the Peace Day parade in 1919.

I don't know much about the floral tiara, sorry. The fringe tiara was later worn by her daughter Alexandra, as was the Fife (my favorite tiara).

It's weird but I have 2 separate magazines about the Connaught/Fife wedding and there's only a sketch of Louise in one and no photos of her--and there are a lot of photos.  ???
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on September 14, 2006, 06:45:29 PM
Here's Louise, in the front row, at GV's coronation:

(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/img220-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: TampaBay on September 14, 2006, 07:19:58 PM
The picture of Louise and her daughters...I find it interesting!

The younger daughter is wearing curly "fringe" up swept hair like her mother and and the older daughter is wearing longer hair.


TampaBay
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 15, 2006, 12:24:13 PM
Tampabay. I know it sounds silly, but in those days didn't they have some strange obsession with hair and illness. If someone was ill or recovering from a ailment I think they tended to wear their hair down like Alexandra in 1867 after Louise's birth and the Rheumatic fever episode or as in the case of OTMA ans Alexai have it shaved off.

Perhaps Alix had been ill too, though she looks OK in the picture I'll grant you. Just a thought.

Grandduchessella I think Louise's absence from the photographs really perculiar. The mother of the bride, not included, extraordinary. It cannot just be an editorial oversight, she was the Princess Royal for heavens sake! I'm beginning to wonder whether the the press had order from on high or something!

Thankyou Keith for the piccies! Isn't if funny, that even though you cannot really make out Louise's face, it is easy to see which one she is!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on September 15, 2006, 07:07:50 PM
You're welcome. I'm sorry it didn't come out as clear as it is in the book.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Taren on September 15, 2006, 07:24:34 PM
Tampabay. I know it sounds silly, but in those days didn't they have some strange obsession with hair and illness. If someone was ill or recovering from a ailment I think they tended to wear their hair down like Alexandra in 1867 after Louise's birth and the Rheumatic fever episode or as in the case of OTMA ans Alexai have it shaved off.

Perhaps Alix had been ill too, though she looks OK in the picture I'll grant you. Just a thought.

Judging from the two pictures of the girls when they were very young on page two (the ones with their grandparents), the photos seem to have been taken at different times. So unless there were two illnesses, maybe it was just preference? Which is odd, considering how most sisters not only dressed alike, but were styled alike back then.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on September 15, 2006, 07:47:26 PM
I don't think Maud's wearing her hair up--that was usually done arund the 'coming out' period, wasn't it? I think, based on other photos of her, that she has her hair pulled back in a thick braid. She had very bushy hair, unlike Alexandra, it probably was too unruly to just wear loosely. You always see hers down until she hits a certain age, then she has it swept up--and it looks very lovely. I think Alexandra was one of the loveliest princesses of her day. She and Arthur seem to have been very happy together--and considering they came from 2 of the more stable and 'normal' of royal clans, it's unfortunate that Alastair ended up with so many problems.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on September 16, 2006, 10:44:42 AM
That was one of a series of pictures taken that day with various members of the RF. I was looking through my other pictures to see if there were any of her in profile, to see if it was just short, or in a braid. I think gdella is right, that it was curly and unruly and probably easier to keep in a braid.

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/Balmoral1906.jpg) 

Balmoral 1906. Maud is next to QA and it looks the same

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/Louiseandgirls.jpg)

I would think this is sometime either 1908 or 09, and her hair down does seem a bit on the wild side.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on September 16, 2006, 04:56:43 PM
The hair styling methods popular at the time, such as use of heated curling tongs, were perhaps responsible for a frizzy look like this too.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on September 16, 2006, 10:34:19 PM
In Maud's case, her hair seems to have naturally been that way. She had curly, bushy hair even as a toddler--worn for a period as a short mop.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/image564MaudFife.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: TampaBay on September 17, 2006, 07:13:02 AM

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/LouiseandDaughters.jpg)

Louise and daughters 1904

This is the photo I was referring to.  Younger child has her hair up and older child has her hair down.  I find it very interesting.

It seems Alexandra should have her hair up.  How old is Alexnadra in this photo?

TampaBay
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on September 17, 2006, 08:05:45 AM
Alexandra would be 13 in this picture and Maud 11. I don't think Maud's hair is up. Either cut short, or in a braid. I think gdella had it right, that hair being worn up wasn't done until coming out, or confirmation. I've heard both. The later picture with all 3 Fife women in white, her hair is down and she would have been around 15-16 years old in that photo.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 19, 2006, 02:18:22 AM
I wish we could find portrait piccies of Louise in her coronation robes. From what I gather even the RA don't have any proper ones from EVII's or George V's of Louise. Very odd!!!

Also, I have noticed in wonder at how slim Louise was! I know corsets helped, but looking at the photo of her and the girls in white, when she must have about forty two, she has a handspan waistline! I knowQueen Maud was the one obsessed with her figure, but Louise probably had a thing about her weight too, by the looks of things!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 19, 2006, 03:49:06 AM
Maybe they were both naturally thin. I think this was the case. I have seen a photo of Toria's coronation robes at her father's coronation, but none of Louise unfortunately.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 19, 2006, 06:29:54 AM
Funny you saying that Basilforvever as I was thinking about them being 'naturally' thin as I was writing!

Christian IX was a beanpole and QLouise was slender, as were all their children! It probably was a gene thing!

I didn't realise Arthur, Duke of Connaught was so short! In the Balmoral group he doesn't look much taller than Louise or George!

I wonder why Macduff and Louise were so against Alix marrying Christopher of Greece. He seemed such a thoroughly nice young man with impeccable credentials. I'm sure Queen Alexandra would have approved of such a match!

Yes I too have seen Toria and Maud's coronation robes, the former's on a website about the auction of her and QA's clothes! Can't believe they were sold off like that!! At least Maud's wardrobe is preserved and well worth seeing!

Perhaps Louise's glad rags are packed away in the attics at Elsick or Kinnaird. I know it may sound ghoulish but I think seeing their last wills would reveal a great deal about their characters. I've been thinking about trying to see if I can find Macduff's. The others are all probably still 'For Family Eyes Only.'
 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 19, 2006, 06:44:12 AM
How on earth would you go about finding their last wills? ???

That is the same place where I saw Toria's coronation robes and her coronation crown - on that Victoriana website where it shows a list of an auction of royal stuff. I was shocked that coronation robes of a daughter of the King would be up for auction!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 19, 2006, 06:54:43 AM
In the UK all proved will are available to the public. I just don't know if members of the RF are exempt, as Diana's was spalshed all over the place. I know those of monarchs and their consorts are classified as a rule, but other members may not be.

The website for probate and wills etc is www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk.

Wish I'd been alive for that auction, I'd have fought tooth and nail for those robes!!! 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 19, 2006, 07:09:04 AM
So would have I.

They probably have changed hands again though.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 19, 2006, 07:12:54 AM
If you had outbid me, it would have been handbags at dawn!!

Seriously though, I think most of the gowns remain in USA to this day. Just wish someone could arrange an exhibition!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on September 19, 2006, 07:20:42 AM
Handbags at dawn? :D ???

It sold for like 300 and something dollars back then. Now it would be worth a fortune! Coronation robes of the King's daughter. Just imagine if they sold Princess Margaret's coronation robes that she wore at her father or sister's coronation, imagine how much it would cost. ::)

I wish someone would organise an exhibition as well of all these type of things, but I would only care if it was one that came to Australia, and even then it would have to come to my city, which wouldn't be guranteed!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 20, 2006, 10:03:06 AM
Does anyone know why Louise and Macduff were so against Alix marrying Christopher of Greece? I can't believe they were so possessive of her, after what had happened to Toria!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Marlene on September 20, 2006, 10:07:09 AM


Reputation - and they didn't want a foreign marriage.  Moreover, Alix and Maud were emotionally immature women ... it was only after her marriage that Alix blossomed ...
Does anyone know why Louise and Macduff were so against Alix marrying Christopher of Greece? I can't believe they were so possessive of her, after what had happened to Toria!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 20, 2006, 10:27:19 AM
So Christopher's was questionable! I had no idea and must do some reading up on him then!

With regards to Alix and Maud, did Louise and Macduff shelter/smother them too much? I imagine that having bagged Macduff in the first place, Louise must have been quite strong willed beneath the pallid, reticent exterior. As they say, it's always the quiet ones that need watching!

Perhaps Louise was more like her mother than one suspects. Thank goodness Maud escaped if that be the case!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Marlene on September 20, 2006, 10:34:02 AM
Personally, I think the girls were smothered and sheltered.  They were rarely in London while growing up - mostly in Scotland or at the family home in Brighton.  For another, Louise was not a strong woman.  Her health was never good, and every winter was spent in Egypt because it was warm.

There are good quotes about Maud's shyness in Jehanne Wake's book about Pss Louise, Duchess of Argyll.  Her husband largely married her for her supposed inheritance, which didn't pan out after all.  Maud dropped her Princess title when she married ... Her cousin George V had not liked the idea that his father had elevated the Duff girls.  Alix of course became HRH when she married.
So Christopher's was questionable! I had no idea and must do some reading up on him then!

With regards to Alix and Maud, did Louise and Macduff shelter/smother them too much? I imagine that having bagged Macduff in the first place, Louise must have been quite strong willed beneath the pallid, reticent exterior. As they say, it's always the quiet ones that need watching!

Perhaps Louise was more like her mother than one suspects. Thank goodness Maud escaped if that be the case!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 20, 2006, 11:27:49 AM
Louise's health was certainly not robust, but I get hints at a 'strength' of character. After all, she succeeded in marrying Macduff, without it causing a family fracture. He was in some ways similar to Roseberry, though the latter was more connected to the centre of Government, which may have really been a negative in his eligibilty as a husband for Toria. But other than Liberal leanings, why was Fife more acceptable? It can't have been a matter of wealth as Roseberry had all those Rothschild millions and Mentmore from Hannah. I like to think that Louise showed a streak of determination in winning Fife.

I know it sounds frightfully romantic, but it was apparently 'the one wish of Louise herself!' I know some will say that Bertie and Alix were probably relieved to get Louise off their hands. Neither seemed particularly close to her. It is clear, as the daughter of the future King,  Louise would have been quite a catch for an ambitious continental princeling to ensnare. But Louise herself like her siblings had a deep rooted love of her native land, and I believe she may have made her future marital preferences known in some way from the mid 1880s onwards.

I know it may have seemed petty, but Louise's terrier like complaints about Alix and Maud's rights at George and May's coronation also reveal an interesting aspect to her character. Though she shunned public life and the most garish of Royal trappings, Louise did fight what she felt her daughters to be entitled to.

I find her self imposed semi rustication from her family fascinating! Was she so entirely under Macduff's thumb? I can well imagine the canny Scot perhaps pondering the sad marriage of the Argylls, and finding his Louise less mercurial, won her over with his abundant generosity, but if he had stifled Louise why did she not alter her lifestyle after his death? I like to believe she was very happy with her lot in life, having I hope been Mistress of her own destiny.

As to Maud and Southesk's marriage. I had no idea he may have been so mercenary!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Marlene on September 20, 2006, 11:35:16 AM


Even Queen Victoria knew that Maud would be Louise's last child (a stillborn son was born before Alix) so she changed the succession for the Fife dukedom - allowing for Alix and Maud to succeed and their MALE descendants.

When I was doing research on ALix, I came across articles in the NYTimes that talked about how close Louise was to the throne - George had not yet married and Albert Victor was dead - and how the girls were only Ladies but so close to the throne (and no one wanted that).  I think the Prince of Wales wanted Victoria to create her great granddaughters as royals - but she refused.

The family was to have benefitted from an inheritance - that turned out to be eaten up by debts

Louise's health was certainly not robust, but I get hints at a 'strength' of character. After all, she succeeded in marrying Macduff, without it causing a family fracture. He was in some ways similar to Roseberry, though the latter was more connected to the centre of Government, which may have really been a negative in his eligibilty as a husband for Toria. But other than Liberal leanings, why was Fife more acceptable? It can't have been a matter of wealth as Roseberry had all those Rothschild millions and Mentmore from Hannah. I like to think that Louise showed a streak of determination in winning Fife.

I know it sounds frightfully romantic, but it was apparently 'the one wish of Louise herself!' I know some will say that Bertie and Alix were probably relieved to get Louise off their hands. Neither seemed particularly close to her. It is clear, as the daughter of the future King,  Louise would have been quite a catch for an ambitious continental princeling to ensnare. But Louise herself like her siblings had a deep rooted love of her native land, and I believe she may have made her future marital preferences known in some way from the mid 1880s onwards.

I know it may have seemed petty, but Louise's terrier like complaints about Alix and Maud's rights at George and May's coronation also reveal an interesting aspect to her character. Though she shunned public life and the most garish of Royal trappings, Louise did fight what she felt her daughters to be entitled to.

I find her self imposed semi rustication from her family fascinating! Was she so entirely under Macduff's thumb? I can well imagine the canny Scot perhaps pondering the sad marriage of the Argylls, and finding his Louise less mercurial, won her over with his abundant generosity, but if he had stifled Louise why did she not alter her lifestyle after his death? I like to believe she was very happy with her lot in life, having I hope been Mistress of her own destiny.

As to Maud and Southesk's marriage. I had no idea he may have been so mercenary!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on September 20, 2006, 11:50:10 AM
Marlene, are we talking about the liabilities against Earl Farquhar's estate here? They are the only debts I can come up with directly connected with Louise and Macduff? They ceratainly put Louise in to a difficult position.

Sorry, if it is a spoiler for your Alix article just let me know and I shal desist in that line of enquiry.

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Marlene on September 20, 2006, 12:32:05 PM

Yes.  Lord Carnegie thought there would be more money (and I believe -- am not at home -- the two girls also were to benefit from the inheritance) ... so Lord Carnegie pursued Maud -married her - and then the Farquar inheritance fell through
Marlene, are we talking about the liabilities against Earl Farquhar's estate here? They are the only debts I can come up with directly connected with Louise and Macduff? They ceratainly put Louise in to a difficult position.

Sorry, if it is a spoiler for your Alix article just let me know and I shal desist in that line of enquiry.


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on February 16, 2007, 06:25:20 AM
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/ROYALTY%20and%20more/c7_1.jpg?t=1171628529)

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/ROYALTY%20and%20more/th_royal33-2.jpg) (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/ROYALTY%20and%20more/royal33-2.jpg)

Lovely portrait of Princess Louise, The Princess Royal and the Duchess of Fife
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ashdean on February 16, 2007, 02:55:29 PM
Despite the Farquhar trouble..the sisters were still great heiresses..
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 16, 2007, 03:06:55 PM
I saw there home in Brighton and it was wonderful looking!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 16, 2007, 03:34:21 PM
Ashdean, do you know if the Farquhar business put much of a dent in Louises finances? Apparently she had to sell a lot of pictures...


Infact the Fife House is up for sale again. It was for sale about 12 years ago and had a nice catalogue with pictures of the interior including the Kings closet, specially fitted for Edward VIIs visit. They must have had quite a few homes.

http://www.struttandparker.co.uk/html/property-for-sale-brighton-town.php
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ashdean on February 16, 2007, 04:23:05 PM
Ashdean, do you know if the Farquhar business put much of a dent in Louises finances? Apparently she had to sell a lot of pictures...


Infact the Fife House is up for sale again. It was for sale about 12 years ago and had a nice catalogue with pictures of the interior including the Kings closet, specially fitted for Edward VIIs visit. They must have had quite a few homes.

http://www.struttandparker.co.uk/html/property-for-sale-brighton-town.php
It was said that Louises husband could travel the length of the UK and find a home he owned no more than 70 miles from each other...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 20, 2007, 08:21:33 PM
Taken at a fair in 1914--you can see Louise, Queen Alexandra and Princess Maud (later Carnegie)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/1850_38_751.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/1850_38_801.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on February 21, 2007, 05:24:59 AM
I love these - thanks for posting them, GDE.  Candid photos of Louise, Maud and even Alix are pretty rare.  I wonder if they were queueing to go on a ride?  ;D
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 21, 2007, 09:30:51 AM
Love the candid photos! It's so interesting to wonder what they were talking about! Alix and Louise look more like sisters!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Alicky1872 on February 21, 2007, 03:44:40 PM
Is Louise stifling a yawn in the first shot?  ;D
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Prince_Christopher on February 22, 2007, 08:36:21 PM
What is the story about how Alix and Maud were finally created princesses? 



When I was doing research on ALix, I came across articles in the NYTimes that talked about how close Louise was to the throne - George had not yet married and Albert Victor was dead - and how the girls were only Ladies but so close to the throne (and no one wanted that).  I think the Prince of Wales wanted Victoria to create her great granddaughters as royals - but she refused.


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 22, 2007, 09:55:50 PM
Edward VII, their grandfather created them princesses--he never liked his granddaughters, especially his first grandchild, being 'mere' ladies. It was in the 1905 King's Birthday Honours at the same time he created their mother Princess Royal.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on February 23, 2007, 12:23:32 AM
Was it done so they could inherit their father's titles as well?

And would they have still been created princesses by their grandfather (Bertie) had their elder brother survived, I wonder?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ashdean on February 23, 2007, 03:12:57 AM
The special (but not unique) dispensation that they could inherit the Fife dukedom was given by Edward VII.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on February 23, 2007, 05:44:50 AM
Was it done so they could inherit their father's titles as well?

And would they have still been created princesses by their grandfather (Bertie) had their elder brother survived, I wonder?

No. I think so, if Lord Alastair Duff had survived, I think Edward VII would have made him a HH Prince too, as he did making Louise's daughters Princesses.

I thought it was Queen Victoria who gave a remainder to the Dukedom of Fife, to allow Louise's daughters and their heirs male to inherit it, because she could tell Maud was Louise's last child?  :-\
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 23, 2007, 02:22:52 PM
Was it done so they could inherit their father's titles as well?

And would they have still been created princesses by their grandfather (Bertie) had their elder brother survived, I wonder?

I think he would have. He really didn't like having his granddaughters not being royals and I don't think that would've changed had Louise had other children. It was he who convinced Queen Victoria to make the Rt. Hon. the Earl of Fife a Duke on the wedding day--Louise was almost 'just' a Countess. (Fife had only been a peerage in the Peerage of Great Britain since 1885, 4 years before the marriage, though the title had been around longer than that.)

The special remainder was granted in April 1900. The result was that the 1889 wedding creation (with the subsidiary Marquessate of Macduff) would become extinct in the absence of a son and the 1900 creation (with the subsidiary Earldom of Macduff) would devolve upon his elder daughter in the absence of a son.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on February 24, 2007, 10:22:34 AM
Frame with a photograph of Princess Louise, Duchess of Fife
c.1896


(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/40231.jpg)

Magnify it here:

http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/eGallery/object.asp?searchText=princess+louise&object=40231&row=12&detail=magnify

The gold and pearl frame is very beautiful, and so is Louise.  ;)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: TampaBay on February 24, 2007, 10:26:19 AM
I cannot decide if Louise most resembles Alexandra or Edward. ??? ??? ???

I find it interesting that Louise was allowed to marry Fife but Toria was not allowed to marry Lord Rosberry.

TampaBay
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on February 24, 2007, 11:49:46 AM
Maybe because the 5th Earl of Rosebery did not really wish to marry Toria. Or Toria did not put enough effort into convincing her parents and grandmother to let her marry him. He had already been married and had four children - perhaps this was considered unsuitable for Toria. Lord Rosebery was also rumoured to be bisexual. Fife did not have any of these problems keeping him from Louise. As well as all this there was political issues. And also Alix had already let her other two daughters go by that stage I think, and she wanted the last one unmarried to stay with her.  :(
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 24, 2007, 02:22:24 PM
Louise designed her own wedding dress, I believe, as well as the attendants. I'll have to double-check the wedding issues again but I'm pretty sure that's what they said.

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 24, 2007, 02:24:02 PM
I find it interesting that Louise was allowed to marry Fife but Toria was not allowed to marry Lord Rosberry.


I'd written a good deal about the Roseberry situation in the thread on Toria:

Whether Toria was assertive or not, it's hard to believe her marriage to Lord Roseberry could've come off. Unlike Earl Fife (created Duke on his marriage day), he was a politician--and a Liberal one--who would rise to the post of Prime Minister, had married Hannah Rothschild (a situation which brought him a good deal of money but also a lot of controversy since she never renounced her Jewish faith--one can imagine comments at the turn of the century if the future King and Queen became stepgrandparents to half-Jewish children) and, while friendly with the Prince of Wales and Queen Victoria, held political views which frequently put him at odds with the monarchy.


He had already been Prime Minister, I believe, by the time the romance with Toria occured--becoming PM in 1894, 4 years after being widowed.

Regardless, the two married and Roseberry wrote of his wife: "very simple, very unspoilt, very clever, very warm-hearted and very shy...I never knew such a beautiful character". No male members of her family attended but the Prince of Wales and Disraeli were both there. A biographer would later write that one "could not doubt the affection as well as the comprehension that united them". After being widowed, for the remainder of his life he wore black and used black edged writing paper. Once, when talking with his daughter Sybil, he asked her what mourning she thought her mother would have worn had the situation been reversed. Sybil replied "She would not have worn any, she would have died at once". Friends worried about his mental health and even the possibility of suicide for several years after Hannah's death. Winston Churchill thought him "maimed" by her death.

I don't think that the problem of marrying royalty impacted him--in terms of 'if I marry the Princess, this or that may happen'--so much as Queen Victoria and the Prince of Wales, despite their friendship, felt that a royal--especially one so close to the throne--couldn't have such close ties to a politician and a particular political party. I can't even see that being very successful even today.

There's also no proof that Roseberry loved the Princess enough to renounce anything. While she continued to harbor feelings for him--and perhaps over-romanticize their relationship--he soon moved his affections elsewhere. I forget the lady's name--I think she was an actress?--but it was written of quite extensively in a bio on Roseberry I saw once. It might be Roseberry by Leo McKinstry.

Also, Hannah gave him complete adoration--would Toria have been able to do the same, as tied to her family as she was or would her allegiance have been torn like her aunt Beatrice? Roseberry seems to have been very emotionally needy, having felt a distinct second in his mother's favor to a younger brother and the two had a very strained and distant relationship. While Roseberry had reached the pinnacle of his political career by the time of his romance with Toria, he still had a public role to play and those around him had always felt that he need Hannah to help guide him.  "She is thoroughly genuine and very tender and devoted to Lord Rosebery...she is a woman of considerable force of character and great energy..." These aren't words usually used to describe Toria yet Roseberry, for all his wit and charm, seemed to need a wife of strong character and energy. "Without her [Hannah], Rosebery was a shadow of his former self, taking huge doses of morphine to combat insomnia and nerves. His Prime Ministership lasted barely a year....Without her to calm and order his life he was a neurotic wreck."
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 06, 2007, 10:59:45 AM
It is so exciting logging on after an extended period off line to find old threads resurfacing!!! Especially when Louise is the subject!

Granduchessella...you did it again with those wonderful Pathè Stills! So candid and as always Louise positively haunts me, while her mother dazzles us all with her astonishingly timeless beauty!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 06, 2007, 11:20:40 AM
Didn't you like the pictures I posted?  ;)

Here is Princess Louise with her siblings (minus Eddy) and mother on board a ship. And then there is Queen Alexandra with Louise's first daughter Princess Alexandra of Fife.

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/more%20ROYALTY%20etc/th_76267_123039.jpg) (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/more%20ROYALTY%20etc/76267_123039.jpg)
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/more%20ROYALTY%20etc/th_81557_128461.jpg) (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/more%20ROYALTY%20etc/81557_128461.jpg)

Louise, who haunts you. I understand, Eddy haunts me.  :)

(http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/files/ilng/images/products/76015_122065.jpg)

At age 17.

(http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/files/ilng/images/products/81778_128682.jpg)

Princess Louise of Wales

Princess Louise of Wales, Princess Royal, later Duchess of Fife (1867-1931) seen as a baby sitting in a horse-drawn baby carriage, or pram. Princess Louise was the third child and eldest daughter of King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra.

(http://www.ilnpictures.co.uk/files/ilng/images/products/81551_128455.jpg)

Princess Louise, Duchess of Fife and her daughters

Louise, Princess Royal of Great Britain, Duchess of Fife (1867-1931), third child and eldest daughter of King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra, pictured with her two daughters, Alexandra, 2nd Duchess of Fife, later Princess Arthur of Connaught (1891-1959) standing by her mother, and, seated, Princess Maud (1893-1945). Mother and daughters are in mourning for the Duke of Fife who died of pleurisy at Aswan on 29th January 1912. The Fifes were sailing to Egypt in December 1911 when their ship, the P&O liner, Delhi, hit a sandbank off Cape Trafalgar. The Fifes were among the last to leave the ship, and the ship's boat on which they were taken was swamped several times by waves; Princess Alexandra was washed over but a young engineer clung to her hand. Maud was also washed over closer to shore, and once all the passengers had struggled to the beach they had a five-mile walk to find shelter. After the trauma of such an event, the Duke developed a cough and fever which eventually led to his death.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 14, 2007, 06:05:40 PM
Indeed I do appreciate you pictures very much too, Basilforever! Thank you!!

It's odd but I have always thought that Alix Connaught and to a certain degree Prince John had inherited more of Queen Alexandra's looks than any other of her grand children! Perhaps in Alix's case, it was because IMO she was rather lovely! Maud Southesk certainly took after her papa! Those distinctive eyes and that mop of hair, that no one else her mother's side seemed to share.

But my ponderings about Alix C; were severly shaken the other day when I read in Alfred Duff Cooper's diaries that Alix C. described her cousin as 'me in trousers.' Then I looked again at pictures of Alix and some of Duff Cooper and indeed, they certainly were very alike. Same eyes, chin and shape of face!

Macduff's sister Lady Agnes, Duff Cooper's mother, must have been a fascinating character. A bit of a Bolter from all accounts, a real character. I would love to know what Louise made of her colourful sister - in - law!

Of the five surviving Wales children, I think Louise was certainly the most able artist. I have seen some of their watercolours and sketches and was delighted to see that Louise was IM (Humble) opinion heaps better than the others. Georgie doodles in particular come to mind as 'daubs.' BUt then again not every one is artistic!

In the Pathe stills I tend to believe Louise is coughing rather than yawning! I only say this because I know that even today in England, where standards have slipped quite a lot, it is still regarded as shockingly bad form to yawn in public at a social event!



Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 15, 2007, 07:24:24 AM
You're welcome, Alixaannencova. I like Louise a lot as well, I think she is my favourite of Eddy's sisters.
I agree Alix Connaught when she was young looked a bit like Queen Alexandra but when she was old she did not maintain her beauty as Queen Alexandra did. I think this is a photo of her at George VI's coronation:

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/The%20WHITE%20album/1937-DuchessofFifeandaBowes-LyonRac.jpg)

You can see she is wearing the Fife tiara. As for Prince John he looked a bit like QA as well. I think John had the cutest face, he was the most blonde of the five sons, and I think he would have grown up to be a handsome man.

Maud Southesk looked so much like her father I agree. Look at the wedding photo posted above and then at the photo of Maud above her face is so similiar to his. This is a photo of Princess Maud I think at the coronation:

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/The%20WHITE%20album/1937-Princessmaud4.jpg)

I think she is wearing the amethyst tiara/necklace she inherited from QA.

I have never seen a picture of Alix C's cousin Alfred Duff Cooper, Viscount Norwich. I would like to very much so I can compare! Lady Agnes seems probably like a "bolter" - she was married three times.

By the way, do you know if Macduff was part Jewish, I notice his paternal grandmother was called Anne Stein, daughter of James Stein.  ???

I can't judge the Wales children as artists, as I haven't really seen their art, except a couple of drawings of Eddy's which were very good.  :) Where did you see their watercolours and sketches?  ???

Maybe Louise is coughing rather than yawning. Even if she is yawning it isn't that bad because she is covering her mouth.  :-\
 

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 16, 2007, 08:34:40 PM
Basilforver. you are a star!....or may I address you as Baz for short!!! Anyway...super piccies of Alix C and Maud S! The latter, explains what happened to the other half of QA's amethysts too!! Which has always puzzled me, since 'only' a few seem to have turned up in Wallis' hideous 'bib'  in the past. I do agree though, my, how time/age added substance to Alix C's looks!! Perhaps Arthur's illness had something to do with her countenance....that and constant worries about Alastair!!!

I have often wondered what happened to QA's trove of peridots and the magnificent circular pin she wore in Flameng's glorious portrait!

As to Louise's looks, IMO she was rather akin to her uncle Wlademar.


Yawning in public is still verboten/interdit/unforgivable! No matter which strata of society one comes from...one should instinctively stifle the urge as it really is the rudest kind of social put down, unintentional or not!


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 17, 2007, 04:20:25 AM
Sketches and watercolours were reproduced in a big book in the early nineties, though I can not for the life of me remember the name of it! and others later in another one about Osborne I think.

I wish I knew how to post piccies as I would put some of Duff Cooper on here!

I had never thought about Fife's Stein connection before! Hmmmm.....I wonder what Southesk made of it! Considering his membership of the Right Club!

I wonder what happened to Maud S's amethysts! and what about Louise's black pearl pin, that she seemed to favour a great deal...never seen it on either of her girls? Also, I do think it odd that none of the Wales girls ever appears to have worn earrings!! I wonder why?


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 17, 2007, 04:44:37 AM
Basilforver. you are a star!....or may I address you as Baz for short!!! Anyway...super piccies of Alix C and Maud S! The latter, explains what happened to the other half of QA's amethysts too!! Which has always puzzled me, since 'only' a few seem to have turned up in Wallis' hideous 'bib'  in the past. I do agree though, my, how time/age added substance to Alix C's looks!! Perhaps Arthur's illness had something to do with her countenance....that and constant worries about Alastair!!!

I have often wondered what happened to QA's trove of peridots and the magnificent circular pin she wore in Flameng's glorious portrait!

As to Louise's looks, IMO she was rather akin to her uncle Wlademar.


Yawning in public is still verboten/interdit/unforgivable! No matter which strata of society one comes from...one should instinctively stifle the urge as it really is the rudest kind of social put down, unintentional or not!




You can call me Baz, the name comes from my cat Basil and he is sometimes called Baz. I didn't know that QA amethysts (some of them) ended up in Wallis's bib. I don't like the bib's either. Well Princess Maud got the beautiful amethyst and diamond necklace that can be worn as a tiara, she is wearing as a necklace in that pic. If you have ''Tiaras: A History of Splendour" there is a good picture of it in there. "Added substance to her looks'' is a very nice way of putting it. She didn't remain beautiful like her grandmother the Queen.

I would love to learn more about her son Alastair, 2nd Duke of Connaught. It is hard to find much details about him, or pictures.

Quote
I have often wondered what happened to QA's trove of peridots and the magnificent circular pin she wore in Flameng's glorious portrait

I don't know the ones you mean. Perhaps you could post a picture and show them?

I never thought of Louise as looking like Prince Waldemar. I think she looks very much like both her mother and father, a complete mix of them. And Toria looked so much like Bertie I think. Maybe yawning in public is not such a crime in Australia, we are known to be more laid back.  ;)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 17, 2007, 04:53:20 AM
Sketches and watercolours were reproduced in a big book in the early nineties, though I can not for the life of me remember the name of it! and others later in another one about Osborne I think.

I wish I knew how to post piccies as I would put some of Duff Cooper on here!

I had never thought about Fife's Stein connection before! Hmmmm.....I wonder what Southesk made of it! Considering his membership of the Right Club!

I wonder what happened to Maud S's amethysts! and what about Louise's black pearl pin, that she seemed to favour a great deal...never seen it on either of her girls? Also, I do think it odd that none of the Wales girls ever appears to have worn earrings!! I wonder why?

If you could please remember the name of the book the sketches and watercolours of the Wales kids are in, I would be very grateful.  :) I really want to see them.

Posting pictures is very easy. Just click the icon that looks like a picture frame when you are posting and then put the url of the picture where the cursor will be flashing. If they are saved on your computer then put them in a photobucket and then post the url of them there - it is easy.

Well Macduff's father's mother was Anne Stein, maybe she was a Jew? I don't like the sound of Southesk, I must admit. Going after Maud for her money, and now I hear he was far right/racist?

I think most of the Fife Jewels stayed right in the family. They still have the Fife Tiara, and apparetly also QV's emerald tiara, so I don't think they sold any of their treasures. They probably still have the amethysts, they are not credited to anyone else in Munn's book. The Fifes are quite wealthy aren't they?

Now that I come to think of it, I can't remember seeing Louise, Toria or Maud wearing earrings. Maybe they weren't allowed to get their ears pierced? I wouldn't have wanted to in those days, it would have hurt more before they had the more modern efficient methods.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: TampaBay on March 17, 2007, 06:23:13 AM

I think most of the Fife Jewels stayed right in the family. They still have the Fife Tiara, and apparetly also QV's emerald tiara, so I don't think they sold any of their treasures. They probably still have the amethysts, they are not credited to anyone else in Munn's book. The Fifes are quite wealthy aren't they?


What is the current state of the Fifes?  I believe the current Duke is divorce and pushing eighty.  How many sons/daughters does he have and does he have possession of "THE FIFE" tiara?

TampaBay

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 17, 2007, 07:05:29 AM
Yes he does have possession of the Fife Tiara! I think I have a picture of his daughter wearing it somewhere.

I think the Fifes are quite wealthy - they must be pretty rich with ancestral wealth because they haven't been pushed to sell their royal treasures, as far as I know.

The current Duke is the late Princess Royal Louise's grandson, he is 77 years old. He and his former wife had three children. A stillborn son born in 1958, Lady Alexandra Clare Carnegie Etherington, and Lord David Charles Carnegie, Earl of Southesk.

Why didn't the Duke take on the name of Duff when he inherited the Fife titles? That would have been a good thing to do I think, and his surname could be Carnegie-Duff.  :-\
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 22, 2007, 02:57:03 PM
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/LOVELY%20mostly/th_19883583_4b99430c66_b.jpg) (http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/LOVELY%20mostly/19883583_4b99430c66_b.jpg)

Mausoleum at Duff house, Last resting place of the Duff family also known as the Dukes of Fife
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on March 27, 2007, 01:51:13 PM
This may sound stupid but how did the title of Duke of Fife pass from Alexandra, Princess Arthur of Connaught to Maud's son?  Shouldn't the dukedom have become extinct?

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on March 27, 2007, 02:09:14 PM
Beings the Duke of Fife only had daughters (Alexandra and Maud) it would have become extinct upon his death. But it was allowed to pass down via his female line, as Alexandra's son predeceased her, it would then have gone to Maud, but as she was dead it passed on to her son.  Not sure if this is correct, but it is my understanding of it.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 27, 2007, 07:57:48 PM
The special remainder regarding the inheritance of the dukedom was granted in April 1900. The result was that the 1889 wedding creation of the Earl of Fife as the Duke of Fife (with the subsidiary Marquessate of Macduff) would become extinct in the absence of a son and the 1900 creation (with the subsidiary Earldom of Macduff) would devolve upon his elder daughter in the absence of a son.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 28, 2007, 09:10:17 AM
I would be very interested in seeing some pictures of the 3rd Duke of Fife, particularly when he was younger or with his Royal Relatives. As the great-grandson of a Sovereign, The Duke is actually a junior member of the British Royal Family.

Does any one have any pictures of His Grace? Or of his children Lady Alexandra and the Earl of Southesk and Macduff?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ashdean on March 28, 2007, 12:43:30 PM
I would be very interested in seeing some pictures of the 3rd Duke of Fife, particularly when he was younger or with his Royal Relatives. As the great-grandson of a Sovereign, The Duke is actually a junior member of the British Royal Family.

Does any one have any pictures of His Grace? Or of his children Lady Alexandra and the Earl of Southesk and Macduff?
Lady Alexandra used to shoot in competitions with Sophie Wessex.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2007, 12:56:08 PM
Lady Alexandra is also one of Louise Wessex's godmothers. Were there any official photos of the christening--she'd be in those unless she couldn't go for some reason. Sophie Wessex, in return, is godmother to Alexandra's daughter, Amelia.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2007, 01:22:32 PM
former wife of the Duke of Fife

(http://www.thepeerage.com/101599_001.jpg)

The Duke of Fife, when Lord Carnegie, in 1954 at Braemar:

(http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/3137346.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=BEDFE2929D4DA76520064AC20CED3FB0)

By the way, for anyone who goes to Braemar, there's apparently a Princess Royal and Duke of Fife Memorial Park.

The couple upon their engagement:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/fifedewarengagement.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2007, 01:27:31 PM
(http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/52105542.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=B29FDE601AC0C35C9B6815872D315608)

Opening of Parliament in 2001. It says that the Queen's robes are being held by Pages of Honor Viscount Garnock, Lord Carnegie, Lord Maltravers And The Honourable John Bowes-lyon.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 28, 2007, 01:35:43 PM
I would be very interested in seeing some pictures of the 3rd Duke of Fife, particularly when he was younger or with his Royal Relatives. As the great-grandson of a Sovereign, The Duke is actually a junior member of the British Royal Family.

Does any one have any pictures of His Grace? Or of his children Lady Alexandra and the Earl of Southesk and Macduff?
Lady Alexandra used to shoot in competitions with Sophie Wessex.

Shoot what? Please tell me they didn't go out shooting animals for competition.  :(
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 28, 2007, 01:43:34 PM
Thanks for the pictures GDE,
Nice to see the Fifes still are connected to the main line of the Family. One of those little boys is the eldest son of the Earl of Southesk and Macduff, his name is Charles Duff Carnegie. Wish I knew which one of them he is.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2007, 01:45:02 PM
There was an Alexandra Etherington (her married name) who signed a petition for the Prime Minister calling for the repeal of the Hunting Act of 2004. If it's the same Alexandra, I would assume she likes to hunt.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 28, 2007, 01:54:22 PM
Wouldn't it have said Lady Alexandra Etherington if it was her? Petition failed I presume.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 28, 2007, 05:55:13 PM
It could have said 'Lady Alexandra Etherington', I looked pretty casually at it.

Lord Carnegie & Caroline Dewar's wedding took place at St Ninian's in Perth. It was attended by Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, Princess Mary (the Princess Royal) and the Duchess of Gloucester.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/carnegiedewarwed.jpg)

Alexandra was christened on December 17 1959 at the Chapel Royal, St James's. The Duchess of Gloucester attended as served as Sponsor. King Olav of Norway was also one of the sponsors.

Her brother was christened at Mar Lodge with no royal godparents but Capt Richard Abel-Smith (grandson of Princess Alice Albany & Alexander Teck, Earl of Athlone) was a godparent.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Viscount on March 29, 2007, 07:53:58 AM
Lady Alexandra is also one of Louise Wessex's godmothers. Were there any official photos of the christening--she'd be in those unless she couldn't go for some reason. Sophie Wessex, in return, is godmother to Alexandra's daughter, Amelia.

(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d78/Mountbatten/LadyLouiseWindsor3christening1.jpg)

Christening pic of The Lady Louise Windsor.  I believe The Lady Alexandra Etherington is 2nd from the left at the back.


The Viscount
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Viscount on March 29, 2007, 08:00:44 AM
http://www.privy-council.org.uk/files/pdf/010411_orders_in_council.pdf (http://www.privy-council.org.uk/files/pdf/010411_orders_in_council.pdf)

The Official notice of HM's consent concerning Lady Alexandra's marriage.


The Viscount
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 29, 2007, 11:11:47 PM
(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/Fetch4louisefifefamily.jpg)

Duke & Duchess of Fife around the time of their marriage:

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/9e7a_11fifesw.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on March 30, 2007, 04:12:55 AM
Which Royals went to the marriage celebrations of the Duke of Fife and Hon. Caroline Dewar?

I know this may be too personal to ask :-\, but is there any particular known reason why they got divorced?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 30, 2007, 04:18:30 PM
I put the guest information in post #105, the one with their wedding photo. Attending were Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, Princess Mary, Countess of Harewood (Princess Royal) and the Duchess of Gloucester.

The joint staement issued at the time of their separation said only that they were separating and, per agreement, 'no further statements' would be issued.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: basilforever on April 01, 2007, 07:25:22 AM
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/More/pes_165826.jpg?t=1175428548) Which Fife lady is this wearing the Fife tiara? Is it the former Caroline Bunting, wife of the present Earl of Southesk and Macduff?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on May 28, 2007, 02:29:36 PM
No wonder she is beaming....such a lucky thing to be able to wear that masterpiece! Am so glad that she and the Earl have three boys to secure the Dukedom for a fifth generation!

Lady Alexandra E. has always been a bit of an individual from all accounts! Should imagine that Amelia and Louise M-W must be regular playmates/pals for one another too!

Found a fab piccie of Louise Fife wearing a superb collar of diamonds over black(?) velevet today on some auction site! Post Fife's death I think from the dark hue of Louise's gown...but the collar is a new one to add to the list of 'Whatever happen to that....?'
As I have have only ever seen Louise wearing collars of pearls or pearls with claps of diamonds. I wonder if we shall ever see the 'Floral' again?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Leuchtenberg on May 29, 2007, 10:18:39 PM
?

I know this may be too personal to ask :-\, but is there any particular known reason why they got divorced?

She was cheating on the Duke.

Not that it excuses adultery, but it's been said that the Duke of Fife is not a nice man, so being married to him must have been an ordeal.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Marlene on May 31, 2007, 10:05:54 AM
Yes, it is the Countess of Southesk.  After the death of the late earl of Southesk,  it was announced that the earl and countess of Macduff, would be styled solely as the Earl and Countess of Southesk, although technically, the Duke of Fife is also the Earl.  The reason for this decision is that the Southesk title is a peerage (although at this time it is a courtesy title).  Lord Southesk's eldest son bears the courtesy title, Lord Carnegie.  Lord Southesk is no longer styled as the Earl of Macduff.  The title will probably remain unused unless of course the Fife line dies out (Lord Southesk has three sons so it is safe for sometime) and the Southesk earldom passes to another Carnegie line.

This sort of thing will also happen with the Brabourne Barony.  At this timie,  the titleholder is also the heir to the Mountbatten earldom.  This, when Lord Brabourne succeeds to his mother's title, the Brabourne barony title will probably be used by Nicholas Knatchbull, rather than the Romsey baronial title.

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j265/feliciavictoria_2006/More/pes_165826.jpg?t=1175428548) Which Fife lady is this wearing the Fife tiara? Is it the former Caroline Bunting, wife of the present Earl of Southesk and Macduff?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 31, 2007, 01:42:42 PM
If I have this right they are not calling themselves the Duke and Duchess of Fife but instead the Earl and Countess of Southesk? Why? 

(Marlene, I know you explained this but I don't understand why they are not using the title Duke of Fife)

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Marlene on May 31, 2007, 01:50:11 PM
Because the duke of Fife is still alive.  He inherited his title from his maternal aunt.  His mother, Maud, who died in 1945, married the Earl of Southesk.  Their only son, James, was styled as Lord Carnegie until his aunt Alexandra (Maud's sister), who was duchess of Fife, died, and as her only son predeceased her,  the ducal title went to her nephew.  Thus, Lord Carnegie, heir apparent to the Southesk earldom,  became a duke.   His only son, David, was styled as Earl of Macduff, and retained this style until 1992, when the 11th earl of Southesk died.

The Duke of Fife is also the 12th earl of Southesk but because of the connection to the Carnegie estates which they inherited, the family decided that the earldom would be used by the duke's heir, the Earl of Macduff .. so David and Caroline are now as  the earl and countess of Southesk (but not as a peerage). Technically, the Duke of Fife is also the Earl of Southesk, just as he is also the earl of Macduff.

The late Princess Arthur of Connaught, Duchess of Fife died in 1959.  The Fife title was allowed to be inherited by the 1st Duke's two daughters and their male heirs.
When the Duke of Fife dies, David will succeed to the dukedom and become the Duke of Fife.  The eldest son will most likely be styled as the earl of southesk.

 
If I have this right they are not calling themselves the Duke and Duchess of Fife but instead the Earl and Countess of Southesk? Why? 

(Marlene, I know you explained this but I don't understand why they are not using the title Duke of Fife)

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 31, 2007, 08:22:49 PM
Thank you Marlene, I wrongly assumed that the Duke of Fife had passed away. 

Thanks,
-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on August 20, 2007, 02:15:52 AM
Does anyone have piccies of Louise and Macduff in their Devonshire house ball costumes! Also in the 1920s official portrait photographs of QA, IMO one can certainly see a very uncanny likeness between QA and Louise F. I find it odd, that in earlier day they looked so different! Also, I think all the Wales children (John of cause omitted) had remarkable profiles! Barring GV, who had his Mamam's nose, they all appear to have inherited 'that' nose, Coburg or Hanoverian?

Furthermore, I was thinking about what ifs! Had GV died of typhoid Louise would have become Queen in 1910. I know that the then RF feared such an event, but considering her strength of character over her marriage to Macduff and the issue of the 'oven', I like to think she would have eventually pulled herself together and out of her her self imposed slothdom and made a sufficiently able Queen Regnant! Alix of Connaught would have certainly made a marvellous monarch! She really was so lovely, modest and sensible!

I know 'what ifs' are rather self indulgent, but I dare say had Louise become Queen, she and Macduff and the girls would certainly not have had to endure the 'Delhi' saga as they did and perhaps Macduff would not have died in 1912. Then again if he had, maybe we would have had another 'Queen Victoria' like court until 1931!


 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: TampaBay on August 20, 2007, 05:51:24 AM

 I know that the then RF feared such an event, but considering her strength of character over her marriage to Macduff and the issue of the 'oven', I like to think she would have eventually pulled herself together and out of her her self imposed slothdom and made a sufficiently able Queen Regnant!

 

Where is this information as I am not familiar with this/theses story/stories?

TampaBay

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on August 20, 2007, 06:12:23 AM
There was general alarm at the prospect of Louise being next in line to the throne after Georgie! When he was seriously ill with typhoid, the prospect of a future Queen Louise was fleetingly contemplated!

What I tend to believe is that if Georgie had died from tyhpoid, Louise would have adapted to her role as heiress assumptive. No doubt she would not have relished her future role, but I would like to believe that she would have found the will and energy to carry the burden!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on August 21, 2007, 04:15:02 PM
She would have had to find the strength to cope with it, simple as that.  Hard to imagine Fife as consort though!

I always maintain that the Wales girls were as equal to royal tasks as any of their cousins were.  They just weren't given the appropriate social training in these duties and 'brought out' enough by their parents, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on August 22, 2007, 06:44:54 AM
Lovely piccie synnadene I had never seen it before! I do agree Grace, I tend to blame Bertie and Alix too!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on November 21, 2007, 07:12:46 AM
I am mystified by the near chronic nature of Louise's frail health! Even as early as 1890 her well being seems to have been a hot topic and at this date, she and Fife would migrate to the continent for the benefit of her health in the depths of winter. I know that everyone is different, but Louise seems to have endured a pretty poor constitution, unlike any other amongst her siblings or cousins! I confess I am not a medical expert at all, but I do find it quite fascinating that at the age of twenty two Louise was suffering from neuralgia, though I tend to wonder at the accuracy of this Victorian diagnosis. If it be the case that she did have neuralgia this early on in her life, then from what I have read about really bad neuralgia, she may well have suffered from depression also.

David Duff put forward a very interesting case as to why the Wales children may have been less robust then their cousins which is plausible, but I still wonder why out of all of them, Louise seems to have suffered the most severely. In Toria's case, I often wonder if Lord Dawson did not have a point when he hinted at hypochondria, perhaps caused by her general unhappiness with her lot. Maud on the other hand probably didn't help herself with her near starvation diet, which I suspect she adhered to, in order to maintain her figure to the end. But of all the Wales children, it is Louise who emerges first publicly as the one with the poorest health. I wonder whether she suffered from Porphyria or even ME. There have been numerous anecdotes about her 'mental upset' which I find most intriguing. I would love to know more about why it was necessary for a physician to be in near constant attendance upon her from the 1900s onwards!     
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Tdora1 on November 21, 2007, 12:08:35 PM
Porphyria. I'm sure of it. Toria too. PS Anyone know a way of keeping an over-affectionate 18lb tomcat off the keyboard?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on November 21, 2007, 02:30:51 PM
Porphyria. I'm sure of it. Toria too. PS Anyone know a way of keeping an over-affectionate 18lb tomcat off the keyboard?

Yes.  Try feeding him.  If he weighs 18lb, he's probably tucking in hourly anyway, what?  If that doesn't work, what about getting him his own keyboard and making him a member here?  He could start off in the OTMA threads somewhere, or check out links about Beatrice's latest parties and Harry's most recent drinking escapades...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on November 21, 2007, 02:39:28 PM
I am mystified by the near chronic nature of Louise's frail health! Even as early as 1890 her well being seems to have been a hot topic and at this date, she and Fife would migrate to the continent for the benefit of her health in the depths of winter. I know that everyone is different, but Louise seems to have endured a pretty poor constitution, unlike any other amongst her siblings or cousins! I confess I am not a medical expert at all, but I do find it quite fascinating that at the age of twenty two Louise was suffering from neuralgia, though I tend to wonder at the accuracy of this Victorian diagnosis. If it be the case that she did have neuralgia this early on in her life, then from what I have read about really bad neuralgia, she may well have suffered from depression also.

David Duff put forward a very interesting case as to why the Wales children may have been less robust then their cousins which is plausible, but I still wonder why out of all of them, Louise seems to have suffered the most severely. In Toria's case, I often wonder if Lord Dawson did not have a point when he hinted at hypochondria, perhaps caused by her general unhappiness with her lot. Maud on the other hand probably didn't help herself with her near starvation diet, which I suspect she adhered to, in order to maintain her figure to the end. But of all the Wales children, it is Louise who emerges first publicly as the one with the poorest health. I wonder whether she suffered from Porphyria or even ME. There have been numerous anecdotes about her 'mental upset' which I find most intriguing. I would love to know more about why it was necessary for a physician to be in near constant attendance upon her from the 1900s onwards!     

Regarding David Duff - do you mean the supposed blood incompatibility between Alix and Bertie?  This is most interesting, though I've never heard it discussed by anyone else. 

I also wonder about that good old Victorian term 'neuralgia'.  In Louise's case, it could have been something as simple (but painful) as a tooth problem, such as undiagnosed decay or a damaged tooth nerve - pain which can linger for a long time if not treated.

It's interesting that all three of the Wales girls seemed to give in to their various physical woes more than others of the time did.  Their parents didn't nor, it seems, did their brothers.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on November 21, 2007, 02:57:55 PM
What's interesting too is that none of them lived past 70. Compare that to Beatrice, Louise and Arthur!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on November 21, 2007, 08:09:05 PM
Yes, George made it the longest--70 years and about 6 mos. Were it not for his smoking (which exacerbated his lung ailments) he probably would've lived at least a few more. Maud died just a week before her 70th birthday.

I believe it was because of Louise's weak health that the family went on the trip to Egypt which resulted in the death of the Duke of Fife.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Terence on November 22, 2007, 01:11:02 AM
Regarding David Duff - do you mean the supposed blood incompatibility between Alix and Bertie?  This is most interesting, though I've never heard it discussed by anyone else. 

Could you expand on this Grace, you've got me curious. :)

T
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on November 22, 2007, 03:03:52 AM
Regarding David Duff - do you mean the supposed blood incompatibility between Alix and Bertie?  This is most interesting, though I've never heard it discussed by anyone else. 

Could you expand on this Grace, you've got me curious. :)

T

Hi Terence.  I quote David Duff in his book Queen Mary:  "...the Wales girls had grown up to become difficult young ladies.  All three - Louise, Victoria (Toria) and Maud (Harry) - suffered from poor health, and neuralgia, fevers, abscesses, influenza and cysts succeeded one another with regular monotony.  This was not their fault, but an inherited weakness which also afflicted their brothers, Albert Victor and George.  All the children of Bertie and Alexandra (Alix) had been born prematurely.  Their father's blood was rhesus positive, their mother's rhesus negative, the consequences of which were not understood in those days.  Queen Victoria could not fathom it and dubbed them a 'puny lot'.  It indeed seemed strange that while Bertie and Alix were full of high spirits, brimming with energy and able to dance all night, their offspring were lethargic and backward".

What his sources were for this information I don't know.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Vecchiolarry on November 22, 2007, 08:13:08 AM
Hi,

Wasn't Princess Louise the child who was born when Princess Alexandra had rheumatic fever?

If the Princess of Wales was suffering from rheumatic fever while pregnant, then her child would be affected greatly.
I have personal knowledge of this disease as one of my brothers suffered from it all his life.  Lethargy and being prone to any and every afflication are common with it.  My brother died when he was 22, but never 'had a life' anyway, so it was a blessing, I guess....

If Princess Louise was a double victim of her family's already ill health & rheumatic fever, then perhaps that is why she was more "sickly" than her siblings....

Just a thought and possibly a theory!!

Larry
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Tdora1 on November 22, 2007, 12:25:07 PM
Regarding David Duff - do you mean the supposed blood incompatibility between Alix and Bertie?  This is most interesting, though I've never heard it discussed by anyone else. 

Hi Terence.  I quote David Duff in his book Queen Mary:  "...the Wales girls had grown up to become difficult young ladies.  All three - Louise, Victoria (Toria) and Maud (Harry) - suffered from poor health, and neuralgia, fevers, abscesses, influenza and cysts succeeded one another with regular monotony.  This was not their fault, but an inherited weakness which also afflicted their brothers, Albert Victor and George.  All the children of Bertie and Alexandra (Alix) had been born prematurely.  Their father's blood was rhesus positive, their mother's rhesus negative, the consequences of which were not understood in those days.  Queen Victoria could not fathom it and dubbed them a 'puny lot'.  It indeed seemed strange that while Bertie and Alix were full of high spirits, brimming with energy and able to dance all night, their offspring were lethargic and backward".

         The Rhesus factor was not discovered until 1937 and not confirmed for another 3. How on earth David Duff (or anyone) could have known this of Alexandra and Bertie I have no idea. Unless this was extrapolated from a highly unlikely sequence of descendants' blood groupings and then predicated on a wild guess. I cannot give this theory any credence.                                                                                        Approx. 15% of Caucasians are Rhesus Negative (ie their blood lacks the antigen known as Rhesus, usually written as Rh - or Rh Neg, so blood is usually grouped for example A Rh- or O Rh+) and where a mother is Rh Neg and the father is Rh Positive, the fetus is therefore more likely to inherit the Rh Pos factor. The mother's body then produces antigens in the blood in response which causes problems for the newborn. During subsequent pregnancies, the mother's antigen response lessens and these days a pregnant Rh Neg woman will recieve an injection of anti-immunoglobulin after each delivery to prevent the antigen response in her future pregnancies. The health problems for the newborn vary in severity but anaemia, jaundice, enlarged spleen and/or liver are the most recognised. These problems are likely to cause the sort of ill-health throughout later life as experience by the Wales girls.                                                                                                                                (I remember after being hospitalised for a miscarriage in my 20's being chased through in the carpark by the Head Nurse of the unit - they'd just seen my blood group written on the about-to-be-filed-away medical chart (A Rh Neg) and realised they'd discharged me without the essential enormous needlefull of anti-immunoglob in the bum!)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on November 22, 2007, 01:03:03 PM
How awful about your brother Larry! I am sorry!

I had no idea that Rheumatic fever or at least some bacteria from it can be transmitted to babies during birth! Now it seems to be treated with penicillin but back in 1867, heaven knows what they did for Louise. I guess she was lucky to have survived if she did receive some of the  Streptococcus bacteria, and perhaps that would explain her later health problems. It reaaly is a new avenue to explore and makes sense too!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Tdora1 on November 22, 2007, 01:59:49 PM
My sympathies too, Larry. Rheumatic fever is sort of a forgotten illness these days, it seems...however, I can't think of how it may specifically affect the fetus. The general debility caused to the mother may well have caused Louise to be born underweight and generally not considered thriving (QV compared reports she had regarding baby Louise to her contemporary Princess May of Teck and the former was thought to be somewhat feeble and ailing) but many factors both pre and ante natal could be involved. The physiological process would have been for the growing fetus to be as protected as much as possible from maternal infection, even to the detriment and further weakness of the mother. Possibly there may have been some problem for the baby Louise developing an adequate childhood immune system of her own, and sometimes severe childhood illness - especially the viral ones like chickenpox - can contribute to later ill-health, especially with regards to infections and auto-immune disorders - in ways not yet clarified.                                                                                                                              Yet the suspicion of porphyria for both Louise and Toria is the one I think most likely. It would explain the secrecy surrounding their health problems - all those hints and euphemisms - as well as QV's anxiety other both of them. It was in the family still, of course, Prince William of Gloucester was reliably diagnosed and it seems almsot certin that his father the Duke of Gloucester had symptoms. Porphyria can remaim latent, only for the illness to resurface in future generations, and it varies enormouslty in the range and severity of the symptoms.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Tdora1 on November 22, 2007, 02:02:23 PM
Sorry my post re the rhesus factor (aboce) has been 'quoted' when ...erm..it isn't. Dunno how that happened. Oh yeah, it was the 18lbcat of course. Anyway, he's gone out to inspect Princess Beatrice's shows for an article for The Sun....
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Ex-Princess Lisa on November 22, 2007, 03:52:19 PM

T
[/quote]

Their father's blood was rhesus positive, their mother's rhesus negative, the consequences of which were not understood in those days. 

[/quote]

I am interested to hear that Alexandra was rhesus negative. Is it true?

I know a bit about it because I am rhesus negative and so is my daughter.

Are any other subsequent members of the Royal family who are known to be rhesus negative?

Not a serious condition anymore luckily.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Vecchiolarry on November 22, 2007, 04:44:13 PM
Hi Alixaannenova & Tdora,

Thank you for your sympathetic comments about my brother.  Appreciated!!

I don't actually know whether rheumatic fever could or did affect a fetus or specifically Louise;  I'm just suggesting that maybe it could have had something to do with her future symptums.....
I certainly am no expert on medical aspects but I'm merely advancing a theory...  Who know???

Larry
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on November 27, 2007, 05:52:15 AM
In 1890 after the delivery of a still born son, the RF was forced, by 'alarmist' speculation to release a counter offensive bulletin stating that Louise was recovering.

Her recovery from the births of Alexandra and Maud was unexceptional, if a little protracted! Through Court circulars I have established that until 1899 her health seems to have been fine, then she missed Young Affie's memorial due to 'indisposition.' This was followed by statements in September and November 1900 about her improved health. 1901 seems to have been a good year for Louise health wise, but in 1902 she was taken ill in October and was unable to travel back to London from Mar Lodge until the latter half of November. Thereafter until 1906 her health is of no concern. Then, she missed the Braemar gathering and had an operation on the 10th September, returned to London on the 13th November, and had a second operation in the first week of December. Thereafter I can find no reference to real indisposition of even a bout of 'influenza' or cold, until she suffered the gastric haemorrhage in 1925. Subsequently, I tend to believe that though her constitution was not robust, Louise was hardly languishing during this nineteen year period. In 1907 she and Macduff began their annual migration to the south of Europe for the benefit of her health. On February 1st 1907 they and the girls left for Gibraltar aboard the SS Moldavia and remained there for nearly two months,staying at the Governor's cottage, Europa Point, with trips to Tangier and Malaga. They arrived back in the UK 5th April. In addition to such sojourns, Macduff annually chartered the steam yacht Catania for summer cruises around Norwegian waters. The first occasion was in June 1907 for just over a month with subsequent cruises in the summers of 1908 and 1909. The couple returned to Gibraltar in December 1907 and stayed again at Europa Point with a trip to Algeciras and Rondo in March, embarking for England on 30th March 1908.  In December of the same year, Louise and Macduff and the girls took their fist trip to Egypt, and went up the Nile in their own chartered dehabeah. This trip was repeated annually until 1911/12 and then ceased all together.

I find it quite interesting that after Macduff's death, Louise never appears to have left British shores again. Why? Did her health improve, or was she unwilling to go! I do find this rather strange! Another revealing statistic is the increase in Louise's public engagements after Macduff's death. On average during the 1890s/1900s Louise's public engagements never seem to have amounted to more than eight a year! Furthermore these appearances at such functions were generally in a 'supportive' role of her husband, who was generally the Patron/President of the charity concerned in most cases! One particular case comes to mind, Macduff was President of the Great Ormond Street Hospital for sick Children and annually he and Louise visited and she distributed toys etc, but after his death, she never again had such a prominent role supporting  the hospital. I wonder whether Macduff was a little bit domineering, as after his death Louise seems to have been far more individual in her choice of engagements and the general pattern of her life.

During the Great War the number of her annual engagements hit a high, which would have been quite natural  in the circumstances averaging nearly thirty a year. Admittedly many of these were in the form of fund raising matinée performances, but the statistics show that Louise was an 'active' member of the RF regularly visiting hospitals, depots and factories as well.

Looking through the still incomplete list of charities to which Louise gave her patronage I am struck by her particular attachment to two, the Theatrical Ladies Guild and the Church Army. The former regarded her as 'beloved' and her last public engagement was to have been a visit to distribute stars to the members on the day she fell ill for the last time in December 1930. I am still trying to confirm whether she did actually attend the award ceremony or not.

A partial list of charities with which she was linked follows for any one who may be interested:-

Vice President - The RSPCA
Vice Patron - The British and Foreign Sailors Society
Patron - The Church Army's Medical Mission and Alexandra Club
President - The Church Army's Recreational Branch
Patron - The Lotus Ladies Orchestra
Joint Patron - The Scottish Home Industries Association
President - The London British Red Cross Society
Patron - The Theatrical Ladies Guild
Patron - The Greater London Fund for the Blind
Patron - The Ladies Association in aid of Princess Christian's fund for the Deaf and Dumb
President - The Queen Alexandra League to support the Lord Mayor Treloar Cripples' Hospital and College

Even after the war, Louise continued to appear at engagements and although I do not know what tallies other members of the RF scored in comparison, she, Louise notched up an average of seventeen public/state engagements a year inclusive between January 1919 and December 1929. It must be noted that 1925 - 26 were years of particular ill health when Louise only seems to have managed six and four appearances each. Furthermore, I must point out that I am a little concerned that the 'Times' search engine is not exactly perfect for refined searches but the stats are still of some value. 

   
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on November 27, 2007, 05:57:35 AM
I am also pretty sure that Louise was a de facto patron within the organisation of the Braemar Gathering, but have yet to find definitive documentation of this!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on November 27, 2007, 08:23:38 PM
Thanks very much, alixaannencova, for your in depth research.  There are so many interesting facts here I didn't know about Louise!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2007, 09:30:45 PM
She really seems to have disliked to be photographed, except perhaps in the staged, formal photos where she was obligated. Pouring through old magazines from the Victorian era until her death, it is hard to find candid photos of her carrying out duties--it was easier to find almost any other British royal, including those of prior generations. Also, despite having wedding issues of Alexandra Connaught's wedding from several magazines, I've only seen sketches of Louise--the mother of the bride! She doesn't even appear in the doorway photos as various royals (including King George) saw off the newlyweds.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2007, 09:39:22 PM
I am also pretty sure that Louise was a de facto patron within the organisation of the Braemar Gathering, but have yet to find definitive documentation of this!

She was the patron of the Braemar Royal Highland Society--their gathering was postponed for the season following her death.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on November 27, 2007, 09:50:50 PM
She was originally laid to rest at Windsor and her body was transferred several months later to lay beside her husband. Attending her funeral were basically the immediate family--George V, Queen Mary, their children, her daughters Alexandra and Maud with their families as well as Princess Marie Louise and Victoria Milford-Haven. The Teck/Cambridge family was also represented by the Marquess of Cambridge, Lord Frederick Cambridge and Lady Evelyn Gibbes (nee Cambridge). Princesses Beatrice and Louise Argyll attended a simulataneous memorial service at St James's. Queen Maud and Crown Prince Olaf sent representatives. George V's first love, Julie Stonor (later Marquise d'Hautpoul) apparently maintained her childhood friendship with Louise (as she did with George) because she was one of the few non-family at the Windsor service.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on November 28, 2007, 05:44:30 AM
I have found Louise's seeming camera shyness odd too grandduchessella, there really do seem so few photographs around! I am quite sure though that the present Duke of Fife has heaps of delicious piccies of her in private settings!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on November 28, 2007, 08:47:48 AM
There are a good number of her with her family and her husband but she really seemed to abhor the coming of the 'press photo' and is almost invisible in many public gatherings--with a few notable exceptions (a tribute to her father, the Wembley exhibit and the Thanksgiving service for her brother's recovery for example).
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Hastings on December 12, 2007, 12:16:39 PM
Does anyone know where Louise's daughter Maud was buried?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Michael II on December 12, 2007, 07:07:58 PM
Does anyone know where Louise's daughter Maud was buried?

Thanks!

The burial vault of the Earls of Southesk is located at the family seat Kinnaird Castle in northern Scotland.  I have not found where Lady Maud was buried there, but it surely would be a strong possibility.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on December 13, 2007, 12:35:47 AM
Her funeral was an extremely private one in Scotland so that would seem a good guess. Almost all her royal relations (except maybe her sister) attended services at St James's Palace.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on December 16, 2007, 12:15:46 PM
I find it quite extraordinary that the sisters were so 'different'!!!!! Louise may have been shy(Though I tend to believe there is much more to that 'social studies' prognosis than is currently discussed/considered
 Toria may have been 'sharp of tongue' (Such a simplified prognosis!!!!!!) and Maud may have been, over all 'diffident', but all three made significant contributions to the workings of the RF! In shall carry on later!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on February 24, 2008, 10:52:23 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/SR5573.jpg)
http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/royalty/SR5573.jpg

If I remember correctly some one said their where not many pictures of Louise Duchess of Fife in older age. (which is true in my opinion) So I was surprised finding this picture with the Princess Royal on it. And I thought 'This must be shared with the other forum members'!
You can read the line underneath the picture saying 'His Majestys return to Buckingham Palace.' From left to right: HM King George V, his daughter Princess Mary the Princess Royal and Countess of Harewood, Louise Princess Royal and Duchess of Fife with in front of her the son of Princess Mary, Prince George Duke of Kent, Princess Elizabeth The Duchess of York (later Queen Elizabeth), Queen Mary holding darling 'Lilibet', Prince Albert The Duke of York (later King George VI) and unidentified person (perhaps princess Marina Duchess of Kent, or Princess Victoria?)

Wishing you all the best from the Netherlands,

RN
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 24, 2008, 01:22:52 PM
It's not Princess Marina--the photo was from the King's return from Bognor in 1929. Marina hadn't married into the family yet. It could be Princess Victoria--I have this photo and some from the magazine coverage of the event, I'll check and see if there's a different shot from the balcony. I think, based on the other photos and the hat, that it could be Princess Alexandra, Duchess of Fife and that it could be her husband, Prince Arthur, behind Princess Louise (you just see the top of the head).
Title: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Lucien on February 25, 2008, 02:48:35 AM
http://www.royal-magazin.de/england/fife-massin-tiara.htm


http://www.royal-magazin.de/england/fife-louise-wedding.htm

Courtesy Ursula's fabulous site.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 25, 2008, 12:03:52 PM
Thank you Lucien! Some interesting photos of Louise that I have never seen before. The amount of jewellery she receieved on her marriage is just incredible!!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on February 26, 2008, 06:35:39 AM
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/Princess.jpg)

I got this on ebay a few months ago in a group of photos of Toria, and this is listed as Toria, but I think it's Louise. Does anyone know for sure?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Michael II on February 26, 2008, 02:22:18 PM
She and her sister Queen Maud of Norway favor each other alot.  More so than Pss. Victoria.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 26, 2008, 09:42:55 PM
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c256/fajack/Princess.jpg)

I got this on ebay a few months ago in a group of photos of Toria, and this is listed as Toria, but I think it's Louise. Does anyone know for sure?

It's definitely Louise--I have a similar image from that sitting. I think that it is her daughter Maud next to her, cropped out.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on February 27, 2008, 05:30:03 AM
Thanks. I thought it looked more like Louise but wasn't totally sure. I figured someone was cropped out, as it looked like part of a shoulder next to her.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 28, 2008, 05:16:01 AM
How super to see the balcony piccie with Louise there! Thank you RN very much for sharing!!
 
According to the RA at Windsor they do not have any posed piccies in the Royal Collection of Louise in her robes for either Bertie or Georgie's Coronations, which I find quite extraordinary!!

It seems such a shame that there do not appear to be any piccies out there of Louise with Georgie, Toria and Maud together in more mature years! I suppose the Marlborough House one of the sisters with Olaf and Mother dear but sans Georgie, is about the closest I have come to seeing any such family group post 1918.

I understand that Louise was keen on point-to-point and four in hand as a young woman, but I gather that she was not as actively 'horsey' as either Toria or Maud! Macduff was a very keen patron of four in hand, so perhaps he ignited Louise's enthusiasm. There are splendid piccies of Toria in the saddle out there, and I read somewhere that Maud was a genuinely superb rider who took hedges with admirable fearlessness and elan!

Louise's trove of jewels was superb, but from what I can gather, from photographic evidence and the 'known' aspects nature of her character, she tended to go for a 'less is more' approach to the combining and wearing of pieces.   
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 28, 2008, 08:45:39 AM
She certainly seems to have avoided formal photos on occasion--I  have yet to come across more than an artist's rendering of her at her daughter Alexandra's wedding. Queen Alexandra even had a whole sitting done of her in her outfit but nothing of the mother of the bride. If I owned the Fife tiara you couldn't keep me away from a camera.  ;) It seems that she withdrew more after Fife's death but that doesn't explain her lack of formal photos for the coronations. You can see Louise (albeit blurry) in the balcony at George V's coronation. I think I have a couple of photos of Louise with at least George & Toria from later on--these were at public events--and I'll try to dig them up.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 28, 2008, 12:54:22 PM
I know the coronation one you mean Grand duchess, I tend to think the Fife tiara also makes it easier to identify Loiuse in the piccie!!!!!!

I remember some pathe shots of Motherdear with Louise and Toria I think and maybe some very difficult to discern shots from Motherdear's funeral cortege at either Wolverton or King's Lynn railway station, but the figures were very difficult to make out due to the moire veils etc!

The lack of piccies of the Mother of the bride at Alix C's wedding is very interesting, though perhaps Louise preferred to remain firmly in the background in all respects on her daughter's big day! I can not believe that Louise was 'that' camera shy, having been photographed a great deal from childhood. Neither Toria or Maud seems to have suffered anything akin! I suppose after more than three years of relative seclusion and a low profile, Mother dear must have enjoyed throwing on that legendary ballet russe inspire gown and attending a good old family wedding, with a personal photographic sitting of herself to commemorate herself to boot!!!!
   I guess it must have been quite an event for Motherdear to see her first grandchild and namesake married after the deaths of Bertie, Macduff and Willy! Albeit black and white, I gather her gown was also sequined! I do not think I have ever known of a more head turning and stunning outfit that Motherdear donned during her widowhood! Perhaps Louise thought it better just to steer clear and hug the sahdows in her less dramatic grey gown, rather than compete with glamourpuss Grandmama dear. Perhaps Louise had an inferiority complex!
  She was known to have a deep sense of her own importance as the daughter of the King and maintained a Lady in waiting even though she certainly did not need one, and was understood to be very protective of her precedence! But then there is the barbed quip about 'Wuttemberg hands'. Perhaps this also reveals a hint of psychological depth! Why say such a thing unless you mean it as form of 'put down', whether meant as a comment about May's large hands or in reference to her morganatic blood? Did jealousy simmer beneath Louise's otherwise vapid seeming exterior. Perhaps May being so popular forced Louise to accept that she was better off becoming a bit of a 'Camille' and take early retirement to live in pampered seclusion, rather than try to compete with, not only Mother dear but May too, for familial and public affection.Then again perhaps Macduff was a responsible and coerced Louise into distancing herself from her family. I read somewhere that Macduff was noticeably chauvinistic on occasion in a way that reminded many of John Brown! Perhaps he put his foot down about things to do with the family! Particularly when one sees what May went through at York Cottage I wouldn't be surprised if Macduff didn't positively encourage Louise to spend plenty of time at Brighton and Sheen and cruising the Med and visiting Gibraltar and Egypt. It was not only beneficial to her health, but must have been jolly refreshing for Macduff, who during such 'long' sojourns was no doubt the undisputed top dog without the 'in laws' around!!
     
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 01, 2008, 09:08:47 AM
Wearing her fringe tiara

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/Picture2311louisew.jpg)

At the Wembley Exhibition

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/image073PssLouiseBrEmpireExhibition.jpg)

At the unveiling of a state of her father

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/image121w.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 01, 2008, 09:09:52 AM
At the International Polo Match (attended by a veritable mob of royals) with her daughter Maud

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/lastscanLouiseMaudIPMw.jpg)

close-up

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/lastscanLouiseIPMw.jpg)

close-up of balcony photo

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/image246LouiseafterThanksgivingServ.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 01, 2008, 09:11:58 AM
Braemer Games with her daughter Maud

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/lastscanfifesbraemar1920w.jpg)

Peeking out the window as her daughter Alexandra walks down the steps with her fiance Prince Arthur. This was a full-page photo focusing on the betrothed couple and I blew up the section with Louise & Maud

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/image384w.jpg)


(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/britain/Fetch4louisefifefamilyw.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 01, 2008, 05:57:38 PM
You are kind Ella thanks so much for the lovely piccies! I do not recall having seen the ones from the Polo tournament, Braemar or statue unveiling before!!!! I do like that hat Louise wore to the Polo tournament...it seems quite dramatic compared to her generally more conservative choices in the titfer stakes!

Once again Ella, many thanks!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 04, 2008, 05:50:22 AM
I find it quite odd that as far as I can ascertain, Louise only visited Denmark once in a private familial capacity after her marriage! I know she seems to have been firmly distanced from her immediate family as well, but did note that she and Macduff did visit Norway at least twice during Bertie's reign, so at least she did spend some time with Maud, Charles and Olaf.

 Also of interest, I noticed that Maud seems to have had equally good relationships with Georgie, Toria and Louise. Her letters to May, written after Louise and Toria's deaths reveal a real sense of her loss and the evident affection she had for them. I have never seen anything that Toria ever wrote about Louise, which is a great shame! One often reads about favourites, amongst family members: Eddy being Motherdears favourite, Maud being Bertie's favourite and Toria being Georgie's favourite sister. I tend to think that this may have been more to do with affinity rather than anything else! Though in the Eddie/MD case it may have been more to do with him being the firstborn. One hears that Louise in particular was absolutely terrified of her father, which hints at a rather complex relationship and no evidence has ever come to light about Louise's relationship with Motherdear. I wonder if Louise ever found a particular affinity with any of her siblings, or whether she had a cousin, uncle or aunt with whom she shared a special bond. From personal experience of extensive family relations, affinity flourishes and close bonds are formed that can last a life time. Perhaps if she did have one, Louise's particular confidante has yet to be identified. 

I recall a quote from May, that she wrote about Alix of Greece and Denmark 'she is very like Louise of Wales but not rough.' Physically, I have never been able to discern any marked physical resemblance between Alix G. and Louise, so can only assume they shared noticeable personality traits, though what the 'rough' was, I ponder. Perhaps by 'rough' May meant boisterous, which in private Louise may well have been, or perhaps she meant something else! From what I can gather, Alix Greece was very popular within the family, whilst Louise hardly merits a mention in their youth! It is interesting that Toria was known to be quite a character, on one occasion hitting a Greek cousin with a bag of beans and Maud always maintained a sense of fun, but I can find no anecdotes about Louise's actual interaction within the family, except taking part in the custom of making lots of noise when she and others caught a cousin trying to write a letter!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 07, 2008, 11:14:25 AM
Although not directly related to Louise, I thought it might be interesting to add a little bit more about the present Duke of Fife's close paternal family, as it has rarely been discussed.

The Earls of Erroll were related to the Fife family through the marriage of William IV's daughter Elizabeth Fitzclarence and her husband William Hay, 17th Earl of Erroll who were grand parents of the 1st Duke of Fife, but what is even more interesting is that the Carnegie (Southesk) clan are also closely related by marriage to the Fifes through another marriage. The present Duke of Fife's first cousin, Raymond Carnegie married the notorious happy valley murder victim, Josslyn Hay, 22nd Earl of Erroll's daughter Diana Hay, 23rd Countess of Erroll and they had a son.

I often wonder why Elsick House remains the property of the present Duke of Fife when he also owns Kinnaird Castle in trust! It seems so unfair that this particular house which until the end of the nineteenth century never had any significant ties to the Carnegie or Duff clans, should not have passed to Raymond Carnegie's father, the younger brother of the 11th Earl of Southesk. I appreciate that until the death of his father in 1992, Elsick House served as 'his' son and heir's 'place in the country', but had not the 11th Earl's father married the heiress of Elsick, their would not have been an extra so called 'place in the country' with which to provide the heir with his own place!

I do still wonder why Alix C left Mar Lodge to Alexander Ramsey, when he too had his own properties! Why she alienated the last very substantial acres of the entailed 'Duff' estates is still a mystery to me, though had Alastair lived, this would not I am sure, have happened as he had no property at all of his own except what his mother would have left him as a patrimony! Bagshot would have had to have been resettled upon him by the Crown, and its estate income was hardly proportionate to the cost of maintenance, therefore I believe it would probably never have been resettled, as it would have proved an immense burden and non viable economically! (Unlike the Earl of Wessex, Alastair never received a penny from the Crown in the form of income, making the prospect of running Bagshot as  home, an economical nightmare!)
  I would really like to know how the present Duke of Fife felt about seeing Mar pass to a cousin, who was not even a blood relative of his grand father, the 1st Duke of Fife! I often ponder whether, had Maud Southesk oulived her sister, Mar would have remained within the family descended from the 1st Duke and Louise!

Having heard/read tit bits about Charles Southesk's financial situation at the time of his marriage to Maud, I can only imagine that Alix C. must have paid him off in some way, in order to have freed her to bequeath Mar to whomever she wished. I say this on the assumption that Mar was protected by some form of entail drawn up by the wily 1st Duke, though seeing how he disposed of so much of his property after his marriage to Louise, I do not claim to know this for a fact!

At the time of her death in 1959, it is only reasonable to speculate that Alix C. had a very considerable fortune. Not only her own, but that of her late husband as well! I understand that the Duke of Connaught was very keen to ensure that Patsy in particular was well provided for, and perhaps he and Alix C. came to some agreement about 'her' assets, after Prince Arthur of Connaught died in 1938, with provision in particular for Patsy, should Alastair die without issue!

Any comments or insight from others on this rather shadowy topic would be of great interest!!! 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Norbert on March 07, 2008, 02:22:55 PM
Alistair 2 D of Connaught was described as " vague and feckless" I've read several reports about his death: killed falling down a staircase, died of Flu or suicide after being blackmiled in a gay scandal ! All rather like the son of Duke of Edinburgh-Coburg eh? anyone has the truth....
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on March 07, 2008, 03:55:25 PM
His death is still subject to conjecture, it seems.  An old thread:

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7799.0.html (http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php/topic,7799.0.html)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 07, 2008, 06:29:46 PM
Poor Alastair!We shouldn't go over his life/possible proclivities etc here as he does have his own thread as Grace has kindly stated!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on April 21, 2008, 03:33:34 PM
Louise with her brothers by Bauerle

(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/402241.jpg)

and with Toria, also by Bauerle

(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/402350.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on April 21, 2008, 09:53:32 PM
Great images ! :)   ... Duchess of Fife and daughters
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3205/anotherduffgirlscu3.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on April 21, 2008, 09:56:54 PM
Does anyone have images from Prss Louise's marriage to Alexander Duff, Duke of Fife ?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on April 21, 2008, 10:25:01 PM
(http://www.royalcollection.org.uk/egallery/images/collection_large/2904789.jpg)

I'm pretty sure that Louise had a hand in designing her wedding dress. She also designed the bridesmaids's dresses which were a pale pink, I believe.

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/weddings/AAA18891341.jpg)

(http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f282/vickyandfritz/weddings/image323.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Svetabel on April 22, 2008, 12:36:58 AM
Wow, never seen the group wedding photo of Louise! But I can't recognize the girls on the floor in the front. The left one has a very familiar face...Also 2 girls behind sitting Thora. Any ideas?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Keith on April 22, 2008, 05:42:58 AM
I've never seen that photo either. It's great. Don't have any help on the ID, but I was wondering is that May Teck next to Louise? Is one of the other bridesmaids possibly Marie Louise beings Helena Victoria is there.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on April 22, 2008, 09:42:27 AM
Thanks for the posting GrandDuchessElla  :D  ... that IS May standing next to Louise - I have no idea who the sitters are in front * :-[ *
I wonder if there is a painting of the wedding ? since both Maud & May's marriages were painted.

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on April 22, 2008, 06:41:04 PM
The bridesmaids were Princesses Maud & Victoria of Wales, Princess Victoria Mary of Teck, Princesses Helena Victoria and Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein and Princesses Victoria, Feodore and Helena Gleichen. The Gleichens were the children of Queen Victoria's nephew Prince Victor of Hohenlohe-Langenburg who married Laura Seymour. They were always close to the British royals and spent their lives in Britain.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Svetabel on April 23, 2008, 12:40:47 AM
The bridesmaids were Princesses Maud & Victoria of Wales, Princess Victoria Mary of Teck, Princesses Helena Victoria and Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein and Princesses Victoria, Feodore and Helena Gleichen. The Gleichens were the children of Queen Victoria's nephew Prince Victor of Hohenlohe-Langenburg who married Laura Seymour. They were always close to the British royals and spent their lives in Britain.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on April 25, 2008, 08:29:57 AM
Louise & Alexander
(http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/8161/anewalexanderbo6.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on April 25, 2008, 11:46:18 AM
This was also published as a double-page spread in the wedding issue for Louise & Fife. I'm pretty sure it was the Illustrated London News.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ArchDss Louise-Henriette on April 28, 2008, 11:26:31 AM
A lovely portrait of Louise c1889
(http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/700/1889awesomewh6.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on June 06, 2008, 04:43:18 PM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/SR6622.jpg)

HRH Princess Louise the Duchess of Fife and her daughters Alexandra and Maud. Those any one recognise the Tiara the Princess Royal is wearing here and she seems to where a big diamond necklace to. The link benide provides a better look on the jewels!

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/Royals%20past%20and%20present/SR6622.jpg

Best wishes from the Netherland

RN
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: TampaBay on June 06, 2008, 07:23:35 PM
 Those any one recognise the Tiara the Princess Royal is wearing here and she seems to where a big diamond necklace to.

RN

[/quote]

RN,

Yes,  I do recognize that tiara!  It belongs to me.  Could you you please ask Maud to return it to the proper owner ASAP!  LOL!  LOL!

The smaller choker  necklace belongs to emeraldeyes and I am sure she would like it back too!!

LOL! LOL!

TampaBay
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Luc on August 27, 2008, 05:48:04 AM
Were any photos taken of Louise and husband (maybe with daughters ??) together at the coronation of her father ?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on August 29, 2008, 07:41:10 PM
According the RA at Windsor, they do not have any photographs in the collection, of Louise in her coronation robes from either 1902 or 1911, which I find extraordinary! I still like to believe that the Fifes did attending a sitting in their robes for Downey perhaps. I believe Alix C. attended the 1902 coronation though I gather Maud was absent, probably regarded as too young at the time. As Macduff was Lord High Constable I imagine their must be commemorative photographs out there of him at least, though I have never seen any come to light. In fact, of the three daughters of Bertie and Alix, Maud is the only one of whom, I have seen captured robed in a' formal' posed sitting in her robes as a Princess of the Blood and that was taken in 1937 for the coronation of Bertie and Cookie. I gather that neither Toria or Maud attended Georgie and May's coronation but all three were present at that of their parents.
   
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Luc on December 04, 2008, 03:15:35 PM
Does anyone have photos of Louise in older age ? At her sister Toria's thread I just saw a great photo of Toria in older age. They must have resembled each other much that time....
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on December 04, 2008, 03:50:44 PM
I posted some on page 11. There aren't too many of her in her very last years. She was very retiring.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on December 07, 2008, 02:59:12 PM
I would love to know more about her dabbles into seances and spiritualism and the dynamics of her relationships with her siblings, cousins and parents etc. From what scant data I have thus far seen, it really does appear as though Louise became somewhat 'distant' from the family after her marriage and even in widowhood this situation seems have remained unaltered. In retrospect the lack of real evidence is natural, as Louise is rarely mentioned in letters that have been incorporated into bios of other members of the family. I wish Jan van der Kiste had really gone 'deep' so to speak, when he wrote 'Edward VII's Children' although saying that, it was a jolly good read anyway. Actually, although I do not think Louise could ever be considered a justifiable subject of her own bio, I love to think that one day someone may consider writing a combined bio of she, Toria and Maud. It would be fascinating as all three lead such different lives and were so contrasting in many ways. 

On another note, I do wish we knew more about Alix C and Maud S too. I recall Marlene mentioning that she was working on an article about Alix C. Does anyone know if it has been published yet? I do appreciate that Maud S. was not a 'working' member of the RF which explains why we know so little about her, but Alix C. was, and yet we seem to know more about her sister in law, Patsy then we do about Alix C!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on December 08, 2008, 04:30:38 AM
I know that such comments have in the past on other threads caused various reactions of negativity...but...and I beg indulgence as the eye and beholder....but, I am really struck by the increasing resemblance that the Queen has to Louise. I used to think I was imaging it (wanting to see it so to speak) but now I am sure that they share several traits, in particular the eyes and general expression (when the Queen isn't smiling that is!!) In retrospect, Bertie was quite similar in looks to his aunt too. He reminds me of Louise far more so than any other of his paternal relatives.

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on December 08, 2008, 04:35:10 AM
I wish I could master all this photo re-touching software stuff as I would love to swap the hair around on Piccies of Louise and the Queen to illustrate my opinions about how similar they are now. It is almost like Queen Victoria and Princess Beatrice....but not quite. Those two are like twins IMHO!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on January 19, 2009, 11:23:18 AM
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/opzich/QueenMaryKingGeorgeVQueenDowagerAle.jpg)

Princess Louise the Duchess of Fife in her older age together with her mother, brother and sister-inlaw. From left to righ: Unknown man,Queen Mary,King George (chatting with his ''Motherdear''),Queen Dowager Alexandra and Princess Louise the Duchess of Fife.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on January 19, 2009, 12:19:58 PM
Wonderful, I love these little gems thank you RN! I wonder if that is Toria sitting on her left!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 01, 2009, 06:06:10 PM
Apropos of the discussion about Louise's seeming absence from Sandringham at the time of her mother's death and the days afterward.

Ooops I said she was not 'officially' ill at the time, which is not entirely true.....she was or at least she had been, and had been in convalescence for some time. She suffered a gastric hemorrhage at some stage in 1925 and had significantly curtailed her official duties thereafter. I do not think she was really back to any semblance of sound health until at least after Easter 1926 from what I recall of her public activities. 

From what I can gather, today as in the 1920s, treatments for such conditions would have required complete rest for some time and the need to try and keep the patient calm and avoid situations that could result in stress ulceration or some other cause of post operative hemorrhage. Knowing Louise's general health had been a topic of constant comment since the birth of her stillborn son in 1890 and her need to be accompanied by a personal physician during all travels abroad, I now wonder if she was in fact told to stay put on the advice of her doctors, rather than go to Sandingham. It would have heightened the risks of stress to her and may have been understood to be a factor in impeding her recovery. This is only a guess, but now that I have checked and confirmed that she was 'officially' ill, it may explain her absence.

Perhaps like Ashdean suggested, she preferred to discuss the matter of mother dear's jewels in the comfort and calm surroundings of her boudoir at Portman Square with her siblings, rather than face the rigours and possible 'risks of a journey down to Sandringham. Just an idea to explain her 'seeming' absence in both cases!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 01, 2009, 08:05:48 PM
I have been meaning to ask this for ages of our members in the know about the Danish family!

I just wondered if anyone has studied relations between the Wales children and their Danish cousins. I have noticed that Maud and Charles do not feature much in family groups after they went to Norway. Did they not visit his native land very much thereafter? I know Toria put up with visits back to Denmark year in year out for decades with Motherdear, but did she ever visit again after the war ended?

Having looked at Louise's general movements 1889 - 1931, I can find only one occasion on which she visited Denmark in all those years, and then it was a strictly private visit. Perhaps Macduff put his foot down after that? I do find it rather interesting that neither Louise nor her siblings seems to have developed stronger or more meaningful bonds with their mother's native land. I often wonder what they thought of Uncle Freddie and Aunt Swan and the cousins.   Just a musing I thought I would share....!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 01, 2009, 09:45:41 PM
The Wales cousins weren't close at all, it seems, to their Danish cousins--with obvious exception of Maud & Charles.  ;) Also, George V and Christian IX seem to have been friendly having much in common. Alexandra wrote rather harshly of her children's disinclination to visit Denmark.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 12, 2009, 11:24:55 PM
Does anyone know where Louise's stillborn son is interred? I have always assumed he lies in the mausoleum at Mar Lodge. I wonder when his remains were interred?

Furthermore, how do we know that he was to be named Alastair? I have often pondered this and wonder where it came about. Is this a pure speculation based upon the fact that Alix's son was thus named and an assumption/liberty was somehow taken that he was named after his stillborn uncle? I find it odd, as one rarely reads of other stillborn babies being named, Ena's baby boy was known as Fernando, excepted!

 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kevin From Australia on February 14, 2009, 05:42:31 PM
I find it quite odd that as far as I can ascertain, Louise only visited Denmark once in a private familial capacity after her marriage! I know she seems to have been firmly distanced from her immediate family as well, but did note that she and Macduff did visit Norway at least twice during Bertie's reign, so at least she did spend some time with Maud, Charles and Olaf.

Louise viisted Denmark tat least three times after her wedding -
1891 - August 22 to September 9 - with her mother the Princess of Wales and sister Victoria
1894 - November 16 to  December 11 - to stay with Queen Louise while the rest of the family were in Russia for the funeral of Alexander III - the Duchess of Cumberland and her eldest daughter also came to Copenhagen for the same reason/time
1897 -March 24 to April 27 - with her mother the Princess of Wales and sister Victoria
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 14, 2009, 07:59:45 PM
Thank you for confirming the trips to Denmark for me Kevin from Oz! I had no idea about the 1891 and 1897 trips. I assume that the 1894 one was when Macduff accompanied her?

I do find it rather odd that Louise did not attend the funerals of her Danish grandparents! I assume that, as she sailed annually to the Med from 1907 onwards and took several cruises on the Duke of Sutherland's yacht the Catania, she was obviously not prone to suffer from sea sickness, so trips across the North Sea could not have prevented her attendance at the funerals for that reason.


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kevin From Australia on February 14, 2009, 10:32:22 PM
The information comes from Danish Royal house calendar but none of them mention the Duke being there
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kevin From Australia on February 14, 2009, 10:38:15 PM
I also found the tributes in the House of Commons on the Princess Royal's death - these are from The Times

1931, January 21
House of Commons January 29, 1931
The Late Princess Royal
Party Leader’s Tribute
Mr. Macdonald said:- The House will have noted that during the Christmas Recess her Royal Highness the Princess Royal has died, and it therefore becomes my duty to move that a humble Address be presented to his Majesty to express the deep concern of this House at the loss which his Majesty has sustained by the death of her Royal Highness the Princess Royal and to condole with his Majesty on this melancholy occasion and to assure his Majesty that this House will ever participate with the most affectionate and dutiful attachment in whatever may concern the feelings and interests of his Majesty.  Every one who has been privileged to have a glimpse into the soothing domestic life of his Majesty knows the fond relations which existed between him and her Royal Highness the Princess Royal, and can understand what a very heavy, and oppressive and personal loss he has sustained by her death.  She was not prominent in public life; she was shy and was retiring.  She was not robust.  Indeed, she very often suffered from pain.  But whoever has been permitted, for instance, to cross the threshold of Mar Lodge on a Sunday afternoon when the autumn light lay in beautiful peace across the meadows in front of it over the Dee and up the fir clad hills beyond saw the majesty and dignity of state transformed into the charm of personal affection and bore away with him memories of tender felicity and family happiness.  The smooth flow of her life, to which a happy union contributed so much, was broken by the terrible experiences of herself and her family on that night of shipwreck off the coast of Morocco, now 19 years ago, to which was attributed the death of her husband a few weeks later.  All her later years were spent in the quiet of her home, occupied by her interests in art, music, and the routine of a Royal but secluded household.  It is fitting that this House should dutifully approach his Majesty with an expression of its concern and its sympathy, and I therefore move the resolution. (Cheers)
Mr. Baldwin.- I rise to express on behalf of those who sir behind me our sympathy with the humble address which the Prime Minister has so eloquently moved from his position as Leader of the House.  There is something peculiarly intimate and touching about such a resolution.  It often falls to our lot to move these resolutions for those who have played a great and prominent part in the world.  We all of us know in our own private lives – and here we are touching the private life of his Majesty – that very often it is not those vivid personalities which appeal to the world’s love of strife and have their place in history that leave the greatest gap, but those whose life has been centred in the domestic circle and in the love of home and the fair country.  Theirs is the closest and most touching appeal to our hearts.  It is such a loss in his innermost circle that his Majesty has suffered, and there can be nothing more appropriate this afternoon than that we should pass unanimously this message to his Majesty which has been moved by the Prime Minister, which will be supported by that part of the Opposition for which I speak and by the Opposition for which the right hon. Member for Carnarvon (Mr. Lloyd George) speaks.
Mr. Lloyd George (Carnarvon Boroughs, L).- I support the resolution for an address of condolence with his Majesty in his bereavement.  I can add nothing to the very appropriate sentiments so eloquently expressed by the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition.  I simply say that I share them to the full, and I rise on behalf of the members whom I represent in this House to associate ourselves with this message of tender and affectionate sympathy with the King inn his sorrow on the loss of a much loved sister. (Cheers)
The motion was agreed to.


I found the Prime Minister's comments about visiting Mar Lodge very interesting.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 14, 2009, 11:10:07 PM
So moving in its eloquence and gentle wording! Thank you Kevin for your generosity in posting the speech. I am rather struck by the 'Indeed, she very often suffered from pain.' and was rather startled by it, as it seemed rather an intimate thing to say. As you, say his reminiscences of Mar Lodge were interesting, it seemed rather poignant. Beneath all the political rhetoric, Macdonald still managed to make his address affectingly personal.

Off thread for a mo...you're a lucky fiend Kevin, you have access to the Times online, I mislaid mine and am alas still waiting for my new code to arrive.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kevin From Australia on February 15, 2009, 03:47:52 AM
If I didn't have access to The Times I'd die!!!!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 15, 2009, 05:41:12 PM
On her shyness....I have just been perusing Lili Dehn's 'The real Tsaritsa' and came across this quote about Lili's first meeting with Alix,

'My nervousness had vanished. I was no longer afraid; in fact it was the Empress who seemed shy, but she was, I found later, always shy with strangers, a trait peculiar to her and her cousin, the Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife.

I found this fascinating as I believe the book was published in 1922, nine years before Louise died. I am still pondering this rather personal comparison, and do wonder if Lili actually met Louise, or gained her impression, based on things she had heard or read. 

I was then wondering if Lili was amongst the household in attendance at Cowes in 1909 and if so, if Louise and Macduff went over to the Island in order to see Nicky, Alix and the children at that time, therefore perhaps providing a window of opportunity for Lili and Louise to have actually met. I am pretty certain Louise never visited Russia, which would mean if the pair did meet, it must have been during Cowes week 1909 as I am also pretty certain Louise did not accompany Bertie, Alix and Toria to Riga either.

Then again, did Lili visit London after 1918 and before the book was published. Perhaps she could have met Louise then if so? So many questions..... sorry, but everyone knows what I am like about Louise!!!!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kevin From Australia on February 16, 2009, 03:27:59 AM
Alexandra was christened on December 17 1959 at the Chapel Royal, St James's. The Duchess of Gloucester attended as served as Sponsor. King Olav of Norway was also one of the sponsors.

Her brother was christened at Mar Lodge with no royal godparents but Capt Richard Abel-Smith (grandson of Princess Alice Albany & Alexander Teck, Earl of Athlone) was a godparent.

I just looked up Lady Alexandra's christening in the Times and the Archbishop of Sydney performed the ceremony - have no idea of what teh connection is there.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kevin From Australia on February 16, 2009, 05:28:13 AM
and here are the details of the current Duke of fife's christening:-

The Times November 13, 1929

1929, November 12
The Master of Carnegie
Parents: Lord and Lady Carnegie
Place: Guard’s Chapel, Wellington Barracks
Names: James George Alexander Bannerman Carnegie
Godparents:
H.M. The King of Great Britain & Northern Ireland (represented by the Prince of Wales)
H.R.H. Princess Arthur of Connaught
Lieutenant-Commander the Hon. A.B. Carnegie R.N.
Mr. Henry Drummond-Wolff
Lady Scone (represented by Lady Carnegie)

Among the Guests:
H.R.H. Princess Victoria
Marchioness of Cambridge
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 16, 2009, 06:43:11 PM
Oh dear...Louise and Macduff's house in Brighton was occupied by squatters in December!!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/new/uk/home-news/squatters-invade-pound2m-regency-house-1061289.html

I remember seeing a fascinating program of the television years ago about Fife House and its history. It was beautifully restored, some of the original decoration from the days of the Devonshires was painstakingly recreated and some of the improvements made by Louise and Macduff also retained. I shall never forget the breathless excitement of the presenter as he admired the very loo installed and 'used' by Bertie during his stay in 1908.

It is such a shame that the pair who restored it sold it on, and now it appears it is having a rather checkered history!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 21, 2009, 01:52:59 PM
Thank you for the information alix dear. How sad, I hope they don't ruin the place. I have the catalogue from when the house was up for sale about 10 years ago, the interior pictures are beautiful and it shows the toilet fitted for Bertie!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 21, 2009, 04:29:59 PM
Re: Bertie's loo.....well, there are still quite a lot of my fellow countrymen and women who have a preoccupation with loos/lavatories especially humour wise!!!

I believe there is even a museum of loos somewhere!!! As a side note, I am one of those old fashioned enough to cringe when I hear the word toilet used in reference to personal evacuations. Oh dear...I am going off thread...sorry!

 


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on February 21, 2009, 05:57:30 PM
But I do note that 'toilet' is now used by the younger generation across the spectrum generally. I guess it was just drilled into me that it was non-U!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 08, 2009, 05:37:44 PM
I have been meaning to add this link to the luscious Royal-magazine site for an age....as there is a marvelous and comprehensive list of some of Louise's baubles! I was especially pleased to learn more about things like the forget-me-not tiara which I used to call the 'Floral' and there are lots of other interesting pages on other trinket collections of other members of various RFs too!

Here's the link for any one wanting a really good self indulgent drool, though I guess most would have already had a good butchers already!!!:-

http://www.royal-magazin.de/england/fife-tiara-diadem.htm


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 09, 2009, 01:06:44 PM
Thank you Toots!
'The bracelets, presented to the bridesmaids...were designed by the bride herself...They are in excellent taste: the centre is composed of the letters L and F, surmounted respectively by the Royal crown and the Earl's coronet. The diamonds are of the finest water and mounted on a band of gold. (Manufactured by Messrs. Hancocks and Co.) - to see on top.

If I remember correctly, May didn't think much of these bracelets!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Luc on March 15, 2009, 08:51:27 AM
Maybe this question was asked before, but are any photos known of Alix Connaught at the 1953 coronation ?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 15, 2009, 03:52:19 PM
Alix Connaught did not attend the '53 coronation apparently, as she was in ill health at the time! I was never sure about this until I read in the Times that she was absent! I do still wonder about it sometimes, but it appears she was certainly absent from the processionals!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 15, 2009, 04:03:40 PM
There is an interesting article on Alix Connaught in the back of Aprils' Majesty magazine...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 15, 2009, 04:45:25 PM
Ooooh I wonder if that is Marlene's article that she mentioned last year? I believe it was going to be lovely a detailed, and have some juicy bits about Alix's nursing career!!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 15, 2009, 08:45:02 PM
The last issue of Majesty I saw had an article on Patricia Connaught. Are there different issues for the US and UK? Marlene's article came out some time ago, I believe. I would've loved to have read her insights on the marriage of the two. It was certainly a popular match with the public.

As a side note, I just obtained a few photos of Alix, including some in her nursing regalia and some taken around the time of Alastair's coming of age. I wish there was more out there (info & photos) nowadays because you have to really get to the contemporaneous sources to obtain a good feel for her and to see her in her royal life. She was covered very well at the time of her wedding though and for about a decade and a half afterwards. There are many photos of her, with Arthur and separately, performing their royal duties. They remind me in their public roles of the present Duke & Duchess of Gloucester--the relatively non-glamorous (but able to get their hands on some serious jewels when needed), steady, dutiful couple that was there for so long in the background of various functions. I've seen less of her in the magazines after Arthur's death, even before her own health worsened.

Yes, by the time of the coronation she was apparently crippled with really bad arthritis.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on March 15, 2009, 09:01:10 PM
I am not sure about differing issues US/UK Ella as I am out here in the South Pacific now!!! Where there is very little other than sport, rugby, netball, rugby, shot put...Rugby...rowing....RUGBY.....Ahhhh!
I keep meaning to apply to go on a mailing list!!

Anyway.... GDElla, are you going to include Alix and Arthur in your book? Pretty Please do if you can!!!! 

I totally see your comparison to the Gloucesters! Alix and Arthur were exemplars of working Royals in their day! Though I tend to think Alix was regarded as a tad more 'glamorous' in her day than the very 'well groomed' but not exactly inspiring present Duchess of Gloucester! I often ponder the terrible losses Alix suffered during her life time with the relatively early deaths of Arthur, Alastair and Maud! I often wonder to whom she turned to within the family for solace and emotional support!!! 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 16, 2009, 05:00:09 PM
On my 'I'd love to write this book someday' list is a book ala Robert Golden's on the lesser known royals. I've been accumulating a lot more information & photos on the Schleswig-Holsteins, Connaughts, Battenbergs (I have a really nice one of Beatrice walking with Leopold not long before his death), Albanys and Tecks. Alix Fife is a particular interest and I'd love to get my hands on Marlene's article.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: alixaannencova on April 22, 2009, 04:46:35 PM
Oooh...I can not believe I never noticed before, but in my copy of the revised 'Complete Peerage' by George Edward Cockayne, Vicary Gibbs has added details about Macduff's will! He states that it was valued above 1,000,000 pounds and qualifies this, by also pointing out that the will was treated like that of a member of the Royal family and therefore I do wonder how Gibbs managed to have a look at this will. Nevertheless, due to the 'magisterial' nature of this awesome opus, I tend to believe that Gibbs would never have incorporated data unless he had the evidence to hand! 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 26, 2009, 12:04:32 PM
http://www.ltr.co.uk/properties/scotland/mar

This link provides a few interesting photos of Louise's home Mar Lodge!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar_Lodge

....there are some interesting links on the bottom of the Wikipedia page too.

According to wikipedia Mar Lodge was destroyed by a fire while being renovated in 1991? However they appear to have done a good job of the interior & appears vey original...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 08, 2010, 06:07:32 AM
So yummy, lovely and splendiferous to have an excuse to bump up my tip top fave Princess..........

Ooooooh....I am still reeling from seeing 'my' Louise carrying out an engagement and doing the whole thing just as I always knew she did! It is so amazing but at some point when she is moving to the side after chatting to someone her expression and movement reminded me so much of the present Queen! I am so excitedly to have found this old film....I had never seen the actual footage before...Goodness I am sooooo thrilled!!!!!! Please take a look at my very fave ever Princess! I know almost every one thinks I am potty for having a thing about Louise but I just can't explain it! I also love the old diva hamming it up as Louise looks on......wonderful stuff

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=38614

and here is a link to the Chelsea Show which Ella posted a still from ages ago. At the time I remember someone said Louise looked like she was yawning but as I said then, I do think she was actually coughing.....it is quite a way in when the shot of her and Queen Alexandra and Princess Maud is shown but the footage itself is still very interesting and evocative:

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=75543

I do hope it is OK to post links to videos and that I have not done anything naughty! I am just so excited.......
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on February 08, 2010, 06:56:51 AM
The first film of Louise is marvellous - what a find!  Thank you for posting it, Margot.  She doesn't show a great deal of her legendary shyness in this footage to me and I can really see Princess Anne here as well as the Queen.

Thanks so much again, Margot!

The second one with Alix in it is superb as well.



 





Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kalafrana on February 08, 2010, 08:05:28 AM
Apropos Post 200,  it seems interesting that Arthur of Connaught did not attend the present Duke of Fife's baptism, given that his wife was a godmother (unless he is not mentioned in the report simply because it would be assumed by readers that he would accompany her.

Ann
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 08, 2010, 05:34:33 PM
Interesting about whether Arthur C did attend the christening or not! I know that the child's maternal grandmother was still recuperating from the heart attack and gastric hemorrhage she suffered at the end of September within days of the birth of her grandson so that would explain why she may not have attended!  
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2010, 09:14:08 PM
He was in London as Chairman of the Middlesex Hospital for their annual dinner.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 09, 2010, 09:45:13 PM
Re:- Arthur C. Jnr's absence from the Duke of Fife's christening - Thanks for clarifying Ella!


I always meant to bring this up ages ago!

I would ask members to check out posts 17 and 80!

In both we have been kindly provided with photographs of Alix C. (post 17) and Alix C.and Maud S in their get up so to speak in the photos from post 80!

Eddie said that post 80 was from the coronation in 1937 which makes perfect sense! But when would the photo in post 17 have been taken as 'the' Alix C. in that photograph does not look as 'vintage' as the Alix C. in Post 80! I know that Alix C. may have got the whole paraphernalia on for a sitting in the 20s or early 30s but it does seem strange that we have two pictures of her looking so drastically different wearing her robes which were reserved for use only at coronations! And her necklaces are different in each photograph too!

Any ideas would be hugely appreciated! It is really bugging me and I will not accept that a photographer took so much artistic license as to touch up the Photo from Post 17 to look like that when she really looked like she did in post 80! Surely not!!!!!!!

As Maud S. was also in the photos taken in Post 80 I assume that these came from 1937! As Alix C. appears not to have attended the coronation in 1953 when was the photograph from Post 17 taken and attributed? The mind boggles?

It seems to me very odd that Alix C. would have sat for a portrait in the 20s and 'early' 30s in all that get up unless it was for a portrait! Any suggestions wold be hugely appreciated! If she did pose for a portrait and the photograph comes from an artist's sitting where is the portrait....SA perhaps?

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 09, 2010, 09:57:53 PM
Maybe just some retouching to the prior pose-one was a very nice studio photo, the other a more candid shot. Also, re: the necklace and all, the photos would have been on different days. I can't think of another reason to be in coronation regalia and it's not from the 1902 nor 1911 nor 1953 so that just leaves 1937.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kalafrana on February 10, 2010, 03:28:21 AM
'He was in London as Chairman of the Middlesex Hospital for their annual dinner.'

Interesting. The baptism took place at the Guards Chapel, so unless the baptism and the dinner took place at the exact same time (unlikely), Arthur of Connaught could have got to both.

Nice little mystery. But perhaps the annual dinner was preceded by a lengthy meeting which Arthur had to go to.

Ann
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 10, 2010, 10:30:06 PM
Thank you Ella!

I am reeling with abhorrent horror that Post 17 could have been the result of so much touching up! I mean talk about photo shopping to excess!

I always knew touching up studio portraits was common and normal......but comparing posts 17 and 80 leaves me wondering what exactly didn't the Photographer touch up in post 17! Like granny and great granny Alexandra C. evidently did not mind have her pictures very throughly tidied up then?

I would love to see some portraits of members of the RF before the air brushing and what did not make them into the lovely picture perfect beings they wanted us to see!

I wonder of Queen Alexandra had all her 'before' pictures burned! I saw Frances Dimond talking about Queen Victoria's jubilee portraits being heavily touched and that there was a comparison showing what she looked like in the original picture....whether that was just CG or done with a real photograph I do not know!

Anyway this is Louise's thread so....back to she wot whom this thread is dedicated!

Does anyone know if Louise had any pet dogs? I know that Queen Maud was dotty about her succession of little dogs and that even her brother George V used to joke about her cosseting habits.

A photo of Maud with a friend:-

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/181/370759890_216fed641c.jpg?v=0

and Victoria had one called Mac (probably one amongst others I am sure)

Victoria with Mac :-

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_hjD61YU8VYs/SlI4gSMauDI/AAAAAAAAKws/tW0NcSrcNGA/s320/Victoria+and+Alexandra+1908.jpg

Also Both Victoria and Maud were keen riders and yet I have never seen a picture or heard anything about Louise riding...apart from when she was a child! Very intriguing!

Any ideas would be very much appreciated!

I do know she did like four in hand! But that was probably because Macduff went through a phase of competing and Louise probably became interested because Macduff encouraged her!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 12, 2010, 08:26:55 AM
Margot, thank you so much for posting that wonderful & fascinating video of Princess Louise!! It brings her memory alive I think, she certainly does not appear shy!!

I looked up Denville Hall and it is still going today! Still  a home for retired actors. Very interesting to see this link and compare it to the footage!

http://www.denvillehall.org.uk/gallery.html
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 12, 2010, 02:15:17 PM
Eddie it was a real pleasure for me to find the video of Louise! It is amazing to think that she opened Denville in mid July! Look at that wind and her clothes! Talk about an English summer!

Louise was a very keen patron of the theatre and used to go frequently to watch performances in the West End when in London! It was one of her most noticeable activities actually!

As well as Denville she was most closely associated with the Theatrical Ladies Guild. Her last engagement was presenting medals to members of the guild in December 1930 before she was taken ill for the last time.

The guild like Denville Hall is still going and has been doing good works since 1891.

I too did not find Louise's body language or general demeanor to appear to be that of someone who was supposed to be pathologically shy, perhaps she was just a very accomplished actress! If anything she appeared to be taking the whole 'centre of attention' bit in her stride and appeared to speak to everyone with what I thought appeared a semblance of ease and confidence not a shrinking violet speaking like a mouse from under her eye lashes with nervous eyes and shifting feet at all! I wonder what a psycho analyst would make of it!


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 13, 2010, 02:28:33 AM

I too did not find Louise's body language or general demeanor to appear to be that of someone who was supposed to be pathologically shy, perhaps she was just a very accomplished actress! If anything she appeared to be taking the whole 'centre of attention' bit in her stride and appeared to speak to everyone with what I thought appeared a semblance of ease and confidence not a shrinking violet speaking like a mouse from under her eye lashes with nervous eyes and shifting feet at all! I wonder what a psycho analyst would make of it!


I quite agree Margot

Where was she living when she died exactly? I know it was Portman Square, do we know which number? I have seen Fife House in Brighton (very lovely) and found pictures of Mar Lodge which I posted earlier. What happened to Sheen Lodge? I work in Sheen sometimes but have found no clues to it's existence!

I wonder if Louise lost many fine jewels in the shipwreck also? She wrote to George V that she lost her bag. Also I wonder how many servants they had with them?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 13, 2010, 02:40:44 AM
She died at 15 Portman Square....they lived briefly in a house at Cavendish Square before acquiring the lease on No 15!

East Sheen was sold before Duff House! It was later demolished to make room for a redevelopment! I think Macduff was keen to have ready capital hence the massive selling phase!

As to the wreck....they certainly had an entourage with them! What actually happened after they reached shore and transferred to Europa Point is a bit of mystery!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 13, 2010, 02:49:32 AM
Fascinating stuff! Thank you Margot. I thought Sheen Lodge must have been bulldozed as could find no reference too it, shame for the poor frogs in the garden!

It would appear 15 Portman Square is a very large 1930s building so maybe the original was demolished too? "Demolished" - how i hate that word!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 13, 2010, 03:11:09 AM
Interestingly the only one of Louise and Macduff's three principal marital homes still standing, as was so to speak is the house in Brighton! Mar Lodge was rebuilt after the fire when the Kluges owned it although it  was incredibly well done and one could hardly guess the fire even happened! Portman Square was all but swallowed up within years of Louise's death! Alexandra C. lived a bit further north!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 13, 2010, 11:26:53 AM
I'm not familiar with Duff House, can you tell us, if possible, anymore about that one please Margot?

I would love to see some photos of Sheen Lodge but have found nothing!

I wonder if Louise ever made an insurance claim for her lost belongings? If so it might make interesting reading - like the ones some of the Titanic survivors completed!!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 13, 2010, 01:56:50 PM
I am like you Eddie! I have spent years trying to get my paws on some pictures of East Sheen Lodge! I believe the house was sold in 1906. I did find some data once about the next owner but can not locate the papers at the mo!

As to Duff House....well I love it and think it a really beautiful house! William Adam, father of the famous Robert and James Adam designed the house for the 1st Earl Fife! Apparently the building work went on for much longer than it should as the Earl was neurotic about the costs and he dismissed Adam and had the work completed gradually! Originally the house was supposed to have corner pavillions to provide as service annexes and private apartments but these were never built due most probably to the costs involved. Hence perhaps the unusual height of the house!

The present house is charming and is lavishly decorated inside and the park was landscaped by the 2nd Earl Fife in the 1770s.

Louise and Macduff would come to Duff House annually. Like a medieval feudal couple they would be feted when they arrived and would be installed at Duff House with due ceremony. Due to their year long absences the towns of Banff and Macduff would come out to celebrate the return of their Lord and his Royal wife! The Fifes would stay at Duff House for a week or so and always hosted a garden party for the locals and a children's party with entertainers and what not! But in 1905 Macduff sold a selection of paintings from the house and in the following year he dispensed with the house and park giving it as a present to the towns of Banff and Macduff!

It is important to remember here that Mar Lodge and its estate had only become a proper home for the Duff family in the 1860s after the Duke of Leeds sold the estate. After this the family began to spend more and more time there and less time at Duff House.

As to an insurance claim from the Delhi ship wreck! I had never really thought about that Eddie! Maybe I should have a bit of a rootle!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 13, 2010, 09:34:19 PM
I do believe that Louise was very shy--there are so many contemporary reports (both by observers and family members) of her nature. I don't know that it was 'pathological'. Even when she enjoyed better health, she was still extremely loath to carry out public events, despite her very visible title of Princess Royal. That's not to say that when she did carry out a (very) few, she couldn't turn on the royal demeanor and act in a professional manner and how one would expect. I don't believe it was something that she enjoyed, however. Didn't someone once write about the epidemic of shyness amongst Queen Victoria's family, including the Queen herself? Some were just better than others at 'faking it until making it'.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 14, 2010, 03:49:24 AM
I only used the term pathological in a 'tongue in cheek' way Ella! You know what I am like with my great big spoon in a cauldron!

I remember last year I mentioned the peculiar nature of Louise's shyness and how Lillie Dehn compared Louise's affliction to  Alexandra Feodorovna's shyness and how unusual it appeared to be! I also remember pointing out that Queen Victoria herself was terribly shy too! Princess Beatrice was also another who suffered agonies due to shyness as well! But duty and obligation came before personal proclivities in both cases.

What I find so very interesting is that Louise, Victoria and Maud were known rather cynically as their 'Royal Shynesses' and yet only Louise remains the one who today is really labelled as such! Whether this is simply because we know so little about her, is I feel, the most interesting and pertinent point for consideration. Victoria's life and personality have been 'pawed' over and discussed at great length in the last twenty odd years as has that of Maud. Both made a far bigger impact, whether intentionally or not than Louise. Victoria's role as a shadow to her mother made her a relatively familiar figure to the public regardless of what the press of the time said. During the reign of her parents, Victoria was generally always with them at public engagements, hence she was far more of a familiar member of the family than her elder sister. As for Maud, well we all know that she was thrust upon a throne and found herself duty bound to fulfill her destiny in the best way she knew how. She subsequently did it admirably as we all know!

Only Louise really lingers in the shadows! I dare say she preferred this and wished it so! As I have said over again here, I find it fascinating that an individual born into the purple could have been able to lead such a 'private' life! It is also relevant to take into account the very valid point made by several posters here,which is that that neither Edward VII nor Queen Alexandra appeared to have encouraged or instilled an ethos of Royal duty into any of their children! It is a curious issue as George, Maud and to a point Victoria all grew into perfectly able working members of the Royal Family although none shone! George proved himself a reasonably able sovereign even though he was never trained for such a role, Victoria spent years traipsing around after her mother and although she was never very good at PR relations did not retire into obscurity post 1925 but in fact if anything did become a Princess with an 'indentity' of her own albeit on a local level! Maud as we all know proved herself with elan, maybe not perfect or easy going, but goodness did she surprise those who may have doubted her ability to cope!

As for Louise....well that is just it.....she never seems to have had to confront and face up to her position as a Princess let alone that as 'Princess Royal'. If one looks at every single one of the six women who have been Princesses Royal, Louise alone is the only one who never seems to have had to fulfill a significant role. I remember saying that I thought Louise was guilty of Sloth and although I am fascinated by her, I still think that in the Royal sense of that word she was guilty of failing to fulfill her duty! It does not matter now and I am sure it was easy enough for her to fade into the background primarily because she had aunts like Helena, Louise Argyll and Beatrice as well as cousins like Helena Victoria, Marie Louise, Alice Athlone and Patricia Connaught who all carried out engagements (that last significantly less so after 1919). Why Louise was such a shrinking violet or was allowed to be so during the 1890s, which then lead to her being more or less side lined, always leaves me wondering why she was allowed to flout her responsibilities and duties in the first place? It always seems to go back to the issue of her 'delicate' health and shyness! Well looking at the Denville Hall footage....although it may only be one single reel of footage shot when she was fifty eight, I think that it shows that there must be more complex issues here that require further consideration than just the simple excuse of 'shyness' and what not!
  
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 14, 2010, 08:52:18 PM
Very interesting post, Margot. I had requoted the word pathological because some people really are pathologically shy and cannot overcome it. I don't find it a character fault as it is psychological in nature rather than a behavioral issue and thus deserving of consideration.

I think Louise had health problems, without a doubt, but I also think that she used them to hide behind. Maud was similar while she was Princess Maud and Princess Charles but dutifully put it behind her once she became Queen of Norway. I think Louise was more selfish in that respect--her personal comfort (physical and emotional) came before her duty as, not just a royal princess, but the Princess Royal. She should have been the most visible Princess of her generation given her status. Her aunt Louise married a peer of the realm as well but didn't retreat from her royal life.

Nonetheless, I still find her 'interesting' (for lack of a better word) mostly because I enjoy studying royals who still maintain an element of the unknown. Royals whose lives have been so dissected and picked over for the most part don't interest me as much. I still feel that element of surprise with royals such as Louise, even if that's mistaken, because you always get the feeling that there could be more there that just hasn't been uncovered for whatever reason.

On a side note, I find George as interesting as a subject for a second historical look much in the way you view Louise. I would view him as the most successful monarch of the 21st century (more than just reasonably able) given the time he lived in, the level he rose to despite, as you point out, not having been expected to be monarch until he was almost 30, and his own nature. I find his dealings with Ramsey MacDonald and David Lloyd George very interesting for instance. I think there are a lot of preconceived notions out there that just aren't born out by facts. But that's for his own thread. : )
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 15, 2010, 03:31:42 AM
Omigod Ella you have soo hit the nail on the head!!!!

It is about digging a little bit deeper with regards to the unknowns that adds to our 'piquant' interest in cetrain members of the Royal Family! I wish I had your way with words!!!!!

I totally see your point about George V! There is so much more about his character and how he dealt with life that I feel needs further attention! I guess that is what we call revisionist historical theory! Personally, I feel the same thing applies to George VI who is for some reason the 20th century monarch to whom I feel most drawn!

As for Louise, well I will await the day some bright 'spark' decides to rootle around the Royal archives in a quest to find out who she was, what she was all about and why she is perceived and 'labelled' as she is to this day! I am not clever enough to be such a person but I am sure that one day someone will be fired by a similar gnawing curiosity and will take up a search light and do it!

 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ashdean on February 16, 2010, 08:32:08 AM

I too did not find Louise's body language or general demeanor to appear to be that of someone who was supposed to be pathologically shy, perhaps she was just a very accomplished actress! If anything she appeared to be taking the whole 'centre of attention' bit in her stride and appeared to speak to everyone with what I thought appeared a semblance of ease and confidence not a shrinking violet speaking like a mouse from under her eye lashes with nervous eyes and shifting feet at all! I wonder what a psycho analyst would make of it!


I quite agree Margot

Where was she living when she died exactly? I know it was Portman Square, do we know which number? I have seen Fife House in Brighton (very lovely) and found pictures of Mar Lodge which I posted earlier. What happened to Sheen Lodge? I work in Sheen sometimes but have found no clues to it's existence!

I wonder if Louise lost many fine jewels in the shipwreck also? She wrote to George V that she lost her bag. Also I wonder how many servants they had with them?
I doubt she lost many important peices apart from perhaps pearls....Royalties travelling abroad on private visits rarely took huge amounts of jewels with them...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 16, 2010, 11:19:18 AM
Wasn't there some talk about her losing on of her tiaras? Obviously not one of her 'best' ones ala the Fife but one of her smaller ones--perhaps for any dinners with the local dignitiaries or fellow royals/nobility who might be in the area.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 16, 2010, 03:15:12 PM
I tend to wonder about the lovely Forget me not pieces that could be worn as a tiara! I have only ever seen one photograph of Louise wearing the forget me nots in this way at Margaret Connaught's wedding! Where the Forget me nots went is a real mystery! We know the whereabouts of the Fife and the Fringe was worn by Louise in the twenties too! As to other pieces that may have been in a jewel case which was lost is anyone's guess!

It seems perfectly feasible that she would take at least one tiara with her on trips abroad! Although I am not certain that during a voyage the Fifes might not have dined alone in their suite, I do nonetheless ponder whether or not they may have been obliged to sit at the Captain's table  at least once outbound and inbound! In which case I would have thought that tiaras would have been worn by those who could get their paws on them. I may be quite wrong about this, but it would make sense that Louise took at least one tiara as a contingency! 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on February 16, 2010, 06:13:04 PM
I was doing a little research on Louise today and it was interesting that quite a few articles, both during her lifetime and in her obituaries, actually used the phrase "Her Royal Shyness" or explicited noted her shy demeanor. There were basically 3 things that stood out for the writers--her romantic marriage, the adventure on the Delphi and her shyness.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 16, 2010, 06:53:02 PM
Ella those three points you mentioned are all anyone every seemed to write about in connection to Louise and her character! It drives me mad! No biographer seems to have been bothered to dig a little deeper here! But then again she has never been the subject of a proper bio! Even John van der Kiste failed to provide any real meat for us to devour in Edward VII's Children. Actually to be perfectly honest I felt the book should have been subtitled 'George V, Queen Maud of Norway and their siblings .' I was rather displeased with the blatant disparity and lack of anything really new in the book save some quotes from letters never published before!

Her health is another issue that authors like to repeat parrot fashion! But I suppose until someone decides to question and probe we will continue to be told that this is who Louise was - simple!

I know I sound obsessive about her but this in part fueled by the constant repetition about her and lack of anything more to ponder over! This and her rather difficult to pin down position within the family! Apart from Lord Leopold Mountbatten's jibe one never hears or reads anything remotely intimate about Louise save the odd comment like comparisons to Alix of Greece or the Wuttemberg Hands comment! Maud did write towards the end of 1931 about how much she still missed Louise which is natural in itself for a sibling to feel, but I do find it interesting that it was Maud, the one sibling who lived abroad most of the time admitted to missing Louise so particularly! Perhaps Louise and Maud were 'closer' than we know or have been able to ascertain!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 28, 2010, 03:11:06 PM
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19080726&id=7SkbAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xkgEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2071,4727971

I have no idea what sort of newspaper the Pittsburgh Post Gazette was but this article is fascinating as it is so very different to the reverential and staid remarks I have found about Louise in the British press! It is really interesting that this American publication reveals that Louise had undergone three 'rather' major operations prior to 1908! I can only find reports of the two operations she underwent in 1906! Apparently the first of the 1906 operations was necessitated due to complications following a 'chill'! Goodness knows what sort of Chill she had....pneumonia perhaps?

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9A07E5DD1E3BE631A25750C1A96F9C946797D6CF

I wrote about these two operations earlier in this thread when I was exploring Louise' medical history,or at least what we know about it!

Anyway, the issue of her depression and behaviour as explained in the 1908 article leaves me even more enthralled then ever!? What was the matter with Louise! From the way the article is written one could almost be lead to believe that Louise had some sort of breakdown and maybe lost the plot for a while! Goodness as always I am completely absorbed in my quest to discover more! It is also most interesting that the article was written when Macduff and Louise were already aboard the Duke of Sutherland's yacht the Catania doing their Cruise for Louise' benefit!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on February 28, 2010, 03:16:44 PM
The first article reads like early tabloid gossip to me and the second...well, what operation do you have for a CHILL???!!!

Most interesting though, love these tidbits.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 28, 2010, 03:20:00 PM
Fascinating Margot! Thank you, thank you!

Very interesting, thought it could be just idle gossip: "..the constant changes of servants have created a great deal of unpleasent gossip." Very interesting, was she a difficult mistress I wonder???
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on February 28, 2010, 03:35:33 PM
It was also in 1908 that Edward VII went to stay in Brighton to recuperate and when his now famous loo was installed I believe!


Does anyone know if ECT was being used experimentally in the first decade of the 20th century? I know in 1934 a Hungarian neuropsychiatrist made it popular, but I was just curious if as an edge of technology treatment it may have been available and applied earlier!? Just idle speculation I know but after reading that Leopold Mountbatten thought Louise's talk was 'mad', I wonder if Macduff didn't maybe explore different avenues in a bid to 'help' his wife in her 'depression' and 'mental upset'. Complete speculation I know but I am going to have a rootle and see if I can find any tangible links between Louise and any neuropsychiatrists that may have been 'practicing at the time!


Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kalafrana on March 01, 2010, 03:33:36 AM
'The first article reads like early tabloid gossip to me and the second...well, what operation do you have for a CHILL???!!!'

One possibility would be pus in the lung. The medical name for it is empyema, and it was not particularly uncommon in pre-antibiotic days as the result of chest infections. It was dealt with by opening up the chest. In fact, this is what George V had in the late 1920s. Another well-known sufferer was Caruso, who died of it. In fact - I've just checked on wikipedia, and Caruso had no fewer than seven operations for it before he died in 1921. It sounds as though it could be very stubborn and difficult to shift - George V's convalescence at Bognor was very lengthy and he was never fully fit again (not helped by smoking, of course).

I'm intrigued that the Pittsburgh Press was taking an interest in the Duchess of Fife. Did she and the Duke spend much time in America?

Ann
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 01, 2010, 08:57:15 AM
The Pittsburgh Press reported just about daily on royals. Many of the American papers did. Just a huge fascination, I guess. You don't see it in the American papers anymore, save for the 'big name' British royals. There have been several royal visits here by various royals--such as the Belgian and Norwegian houses--and it's gotten nary a blip.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on March 07, 2010, 09:07:05 PM
Sorry Ann I forgot to reply to your query!

Louise never crossed the Atlantic as far as I know! At least the Royal Archives certainly have no record of such a trip!

Actually thinking bout it I do not think any of Edward VII and Queen Alexandra's children ever visited the United States!

I found a marvelous studio picture of Louise with Alastair and Maud. This is only the second time I have come across a picture of Louise and her elder grandson! Th other being the press photo taking when the Connaughts came back from SA. I do hope more will appear in time! I would love to see one of Louise with the present Duke of Fife! I am sure there would have been ample opportunities in 1930 for a sitting! Louise was back on her feet by the Spring of that year and carrying out engagements up until mid December!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on March 08, 2010, 01:34:50 AM
Sorry Ann I forgot to reply to your query!

Louise never crossed the Atlantic as far as I know! At least the Royal Archives certainly have no record of such a trip!

Actually thinking bout it I do not think any of Edward VII and Queen Alexandra's children ever visited the United States!

I found a marvelous studio picture of Louise with Alastair and Maud. This is only the second time I have come across a picture of Louise and her elder grandson! Th other being the press photo taking when the Connaughts came back from SA. I do hope more will appear in time! I would love to see one of Louise with the present Duke of Fife! I am sure there would have been ample opportunities in 1930 for a sitting! Louise was back on her feet by the Spring of that year and carrying out engagements up until mid December!


George visited the US when he was with the Navy, I believe.  Not positive though.  Will have to look it up.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on March 08, 2010, 12:37:17 PM
I think George and Mary may have crossed over when they visited Canada at Niagra Falls. I'm not positive though. Certainly no state visit.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on March 12, 2010, 07:47:13 AM
(http://i39.tinypic.com/3apvn.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on March 12, 2010, 01:29:06 PM
A likeness of Louise from the same sitting that she did with Macduff! I had never seen this one of Louise alone! Thank you Katenka Fyodorovna for sharing!

I can't believe someone actually sent a postcard of Louise!!!! They may have liked her or the recipient perhaps! More likely the recipient was collected Royalty postcards and needed Louise to add to their collection!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on March 12, 2010, 03:17:11 PM
OMG! Look at that tiny waist! But beautiful picture anyway. I have never seen this one of her alone either. I think she was just (well) known as the princess royal and (almost) every member of the royal family was put on a postcard in those days ( same goes for other monarchies). It was a way to bring the otherwise 'unreachable' royal family closer to the people. This process started during Queen Victoria's reign, when photograpy began coming up, and used as propaganda instrument. So even 'shy' Louise Fife could not esscape the eye of the camera. The royal family as  'entertainment''and a (family) example for the people! Nowadays entertainment (the royal family as some kind of royal soap opera) takes over.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 12, 2010, 03:24:50 PM
Thats true RN.

I read Louise kept a diary, if it/they survived it might shed some more light on her life...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on March 13, 2010, 12:51:14 AM
The 1911 edition went into the sea during the wrecking of the Delhi!

Louise was absolutely tiny! As tiny as Maud I dare say! Somehow though I simply can't see Louise having been that much of a diet fiend! Maybe her health so such that she just had to be careful what she ate!
'
I still can't believe that Louise was over forty when the photograph was taken! I guess her corset may have been tied to an 'nth' of suffocating her, but then again considering all we ever hear about how delicate she was, perhaps she would have fainted had this been the case! Perhaps she really was naturally very very slim!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 13, 2010, 02:46:40 AM
So Louise's chattels are somewhere on the ocean floor?! Get your submarine out Magot darling, we're off!!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on March 13, 2010, 09:00:58 AM
Yes her jewel case is somewhere in the sand and mud off Cape Spartel having been torn from her clutches in the gale and crashing waves, unless it was washed up in the beach later!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ashdean on March 14, 2010, 03:08:55 AM
Yes her jewel case is somewhere in the sand and mud off Cape Spartel having been torn from her clutches in the gale and crashing waves, unless it was washed up in the beach later!
Margot dear...you dont need trinkets .....yr a fine bird without needing fine feathers!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on March 14, 2010, 07:45:04 AM
You're too kind Ashdean...but what if the Floral sprays and leaves that Horace Farquhar and the Sassons gave her as wedding presents are smothered in mud lying at this moment on the seabed! I do wonder about this as Louise certainly lost a jewel case during the sinking and those sprays have never been seen since have they? I have only ever seen Louise wearing them as a tiara for Margaret Connaught;s wedding and then never again, and Alix C and Maud S never seem to have wore them and nor have Caroline Fife, Caroline Souhthesk or Lady Alexandra Etherington as far as I can tell!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Kalafrana on March 14, 2010, 08:00:25 AM
Margot

Given your devotion to Louise of Fife, you're going to have to orgaqnise a diving expedition to find the jewel case! How deep is the water in the area of the sinking?

Ann
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on March 14, 2010, 11:43:17 AM
Thank goodness she didn't take the beautiful Fife tiara with her on her travels! Surely if she had completed an insurance claim the jewels she lost would have been listed...
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on March 14, 2010, 05:44:42 PM
There is very scant information about the wreck. As the Delhi was beached in the storm I often wonder what happened to her afterwards! Perhaps she became one of those skeleton wrecks that dot the western coast of Africa. I do wonder if salvage operations were undertaken to try and locate some of the manifest but have had little luck finding anything!

The water can't have been that deep if the Delhi was beached! Like Eddie says there must be insurance claim archives somewhere around which would throw light on what was lost by passengers including Louise.

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: ThePrincessPerfect on April 09, 2010, 12:58:11 AM
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4035/4466734169_a33f5a2891_o.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on April 09, 2010, 05:40:01 AM
I wonder if she hasn't had a touch of air brushing!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on April 14, 2010, 10:57:05 AM
Louise had a son named Alastair Duff, Marquess of Macduff who was born on 16th June 1890.
Even though the designation might be referring to the town the Duffs founded, the Duff/Fife subsidary titles "Marquis of Macduff" and "Earl Fife" really is the oddest couple of designations!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on April 27, 2010, 10:11:01 AM
Little Louise

(http://i39.tinypic.com/246858k.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on May 02, 2010, 04:11:08 PM
Some might find Balmoral ghastly kitschy, but certainly the Fifes displayed outright bad taste when they built their nearby hunting retreat, Mar Lodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar_Lodge), in a strange mixture of granite and Elizabethan half-timbering and with very unseemly proportions. It really looks like a Transylvanian McMansion or something the Kaiser could have built. And very out of place against the backdrop of the Grampians.

If they were so alienated from local customs in the architecture department, I presume they didn't take any interest in the fact that their estate was one of the last pockets of Gaelic-speakers in Aberdeenshire, with 46 % still speaking Gaelic as late as 1891, or?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 02, 2010, 04:21:46 PM
Mar Lodge is really rather ghastly and lacks character I agree, but I suppose it lost a lot of it's character following the fire in 1991? What would help is if they did something with the front gardens & planted some trees, it's awfully baron! If I owned it I would cover the front with ivy or Virginia creeper and plant some cherry blossom trees, it badly needs some colour.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Teddy on May 02, 2010, 04:42:16 PM
Mar Lodge is really rather ghastly and lacks character I agree, but I suppose it lost a lot of it's character following the fire in 1991? What would help is if they did something with the front gardens & planted some trees, it's awfully baron! If I owned it I would cover the front with ivy or Virginia creeper and plant some cherry blossom trees, it badly needs some colour.

Indeed Eddie, its so awfully baron. I like your idea of the cherry blossom trees. You have such great taste!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 02, 2010, 04:45:25 PM
Oh, thank you Teddy, you are to kind and such a nice person. I'm just me - very simple & plain & uninteresting! Though I do get lots of compliments about my looks for some reason, but I just take it in my stride!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Teddy on May 02, 2010, 04:47:52 PM
I find you very amusing always, interesting. But your avatar, change that one. You have that one for ages. Its so 2006.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on May 02, 2010, 04:50:03 PM
Thank you for the advice. I like your AV ;)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Naslednik Norvezhskiy on May 02, 2010, 04:52:54 PM
If they wanted to transform their seat beneath the mighty Grampians from barren to baronial fit for a cold climate, the Fifes should have let themselves be inspired by a Scoto-Dano-Norwegian barony in Louise's sister's kingdom: The Mowatt-Rosenkrantz Barony of Rosendal (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1056/564338519_fb15dfbcb5.jpg?v=0) beneath the looming peak of Malmangernuten.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on May 03, 2010, 01:58:24 AM
Considering Louise herself was purported to have drawn up a sketch of what she wanted for an architect to work with, I must admit that I think Mar lodge is rather a let down really! The  house has a positively suburban garden city air about it! The lack of any pretty garden features is also interesting! Perhaps Louise was just not very imaginative!

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on May 03, 2010, 10:05:36 AM
(http://i40.tinypic.com/4h45yp.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: miki_nastya on June 13, 2010, 03:01:01 PM
 I like her smile :D
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 07, 2010, 01:09:27 PM
A sweet image of the duke of fife and his girls

(http://i27.tinypic.com/1zp17cx.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on July 10, 2010, 06:59:16 AM
Oh Katenka_Fyodorovna thank so much for sharing such charming photographs! They are wonderful! I love the one of little Louise smiling on the previous page! Goodness, when she smiled it absolutely transformed her face! I wish smiling had been more acceptable in those days as I think that Louise probably would have appeared far more striking if she had been photographed smiling as an adult.

As to the wonderful photograph of Macduff and his girls! Oh my! I have never seen that one before! It is gorgeous! The girls look positively squeezable and edible if you know what I mean!  Macduff looks so much like he is in proud 'Big Daddy' mode that one can't help but smile! It is quite striking that although they were so very different in looks, both Alexandra and Maud actually bore very strong similarities inherited from their father and his family. Maud was positively Macduff's 'Mini Me' in a skirt and as Alexandra later said herself, her paternal first cousin Alfred Duff Cooper was her in trousers!

Thanks again for posting such lovely photographic treats!!!!! Anything Louise related sends me into a flap of delight and pleasure!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 10, 2010, 07:06:37 AM
You welcome!

here another this time Louise and her girls

(http://i32.tinypic.com/2gy0h35.jpg)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 10, 2010, 07:29:12 AM
i think its from the NPG. I found it in a blog but according the name of the file, i think its from that archive ^^ (if someone wants a print of this lovely image)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on July 10, 2010, 07:29:35 AM
I love that photo of Louise and her girls too! It is NPG!

Louise has a hint of a smile too! Love her gown too! Alix looks like a doll and Maud is positively impish and it is lovely to see her tiny little toes....no socks or boots! Such a nice relaxed photograph! Thank you!

 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Janet Ashton on July 10, 2010, 09:46:23 AM

A It is quite striking that although they were so very different in looks, both Alexandra and Maud actually bore very strong similarities inherited from their father and his family. Maud was positively Macduff's 'Mini Me' in a skirt and as Alexandra later said herself, her paternal first cousin Alfred Duff Cooper was her in trousers!



Alexandra also looks to me rather like her maternal cousin David - I think it's the blond hair and slightly lazy eyelids, more pronounced one side than the other. David and George were the only ones of George V's children to inherit some of his features, it seems to me; all the rest were carbon copies of Queen Mary.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on July 10, 2010, 01:47:16 PM
i think its from the NPG. I found it in a blog but according the name of the file, i think its from that archive ^^ (if someone wants a print of this lovely image)

It is from the NPG.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on July 12, 2010, 08:37:30 AM
Louise `s wedding. Jul 27 1889

(http://i26.tinypic.com/2zq7pjb.jpg)

You can see..

At the top left: Princess Beatrice and Henry Battenberg.

Below left : Ludwig von Hesse and some indian character

Center: Queen Alexandra, Queen Victoria and the Bride sisters Maud and Toria and next to the bride and groom, Edward.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 12, 2010, 10:48:33 AM
Wow! That picture is amazing! I'ts so interesting to see so many members of the family grouped around!! You are a credit to the forum Katenka :)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on July 12, 2010, 02:42:07 PM
'Some Indian character?'   :o

He's standing pretty close to the future King and the bridal couple so he must be high-ranking, I'd think. Not even one of her Majesty's attendants. Does anyone know of Indian royalty present at the wedding?

BTW, the photo is in the Gernsheim book on Edward and Alexandra if anyone wants to get it. I first saw it when I was in college, along with the one they did on QV, and both are positively dripping with good photos. Many I have since seen (some I even own now thanks to the Internet which didn't exist way back then!) but back then I almost passed out from joy.  ;)  I own a copy of both books and I still enjoy taking them out to look at the number of photos gathered in one spot. Some photos I've still only seen in those books.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on July 12, 2010, 11:48:18 PM
Nice listing on eBay of Alix with baby Alexandra.  I haven't seen this one before but I'm sure many of you have.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Princess-Wales-Alexandra-Denmark-1893-print-/330391416702?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_art_prints_GL&hash=item4cecdcef7e (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Princess-Wales-Alexandra-Denmark-1893-print-/330391416702?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_art_prints_GL&hash=item4cecdcef7e)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 20, 2010, 02:39:45 PM
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/6638/louise2.jpg)

Has this one been posted before? Excuse the bad quality, taken with my phone.

The Duke of Fife and Princess Louise in 1890 standing on the terrace outside the Reception Hall at Sheen Lodge. Apparently they lived at Sheen Lodge until 1905. Sadly it was demolished in 1965!! :( :(
Picture from Princess Victorias album.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on July 20, 2010, 03:42:46 PM
Eddie you absolute angel! I had never seen any photographs of Eat Sheen Lodge before! Macduff sold off a fair portion of outlying estates during the reign of Edward VII and shrewdly invested the proceeds. It is very frustrating that we have so few photographs of East Sheen, it reminds me of the elusive Ribsden Holt of which I have never seen a photograph either!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 20, 2010, 04:15:40 PM
I knew you would appreciate it too Margot dear! It was a great find & I loved seeing Sheen Lodge too (finally!). It's from Toria's album in the Royal Collection, no doubt there are other photos of the house too in the albums, the mind boggles!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on July 20, 2010, 04:49:45 PM
Brilliant photograph Eddie! I have never seen a photograph of Sheen Lodge either. Lovely, thank you very much for sharing! Have you seen Toria's (entire) album in the Royal Collection? So jealous if you did... ;)
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Grace on July 20, 2010, 05:01:29 PM
Me too!  We'd walk over hot coals to see it, wouldn't we, RN?!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: royal_netherlands on July 20, 2010, 06:07:51 PM
Haha...yes Grace we would definitely do that! Even if we could see it only for half an hour. I would really would like to see her album. But weren't some albums of Toria sold in an auction? At least I remember reading that on Sotheby's or Christies site. I quoted something from an album (or information from the auction site) if I remember correctly. Offcourse Toria must have made several albums during her lifetime. So some of them still survive in the Royal Collection?
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 21, 2010, 01:16:02 AM
ha ha, no I wish! I would certainly be sharing all the pictures with you all if I had RN!!!! I will scan the picture properly when I get chance and hopefully achieve a sharer image.

I also came across an aerial photo of Sheen Lodge, the place was huge!! With a Chinese teahouse in the grounds (Sadly destroyed in a fire in 1973) where dear Louise must have sat on summer days and sipped her tea!! Maybe it was near the pond with the frogs in and close to where George V asked for May's hand in marriage.....imagination is a wonderful thing!!
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Carolath Habsburg on August 31, 2010, 01:57:37 PM
Baby Louise

(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/4393/louisegggg.jpg) (http://img706.imageshack.us/i/louisegggg.jpg/)
 
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: THERRY on October 19, 2010, 01:01:53 AM
Mar Lodge, September 1889 , Just married in her house in Scotland
(http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/9981/scansione0016.jpg) (http://img808.imageshack.us/i/scansione0016.jpg/)
By W.&D. Downey , from "Crown & Camera"
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: miki_nastya on January 15, 2011, 12:16:31 PM
Anyone know how tall was Louise(in cm pls:D)...I soupose she was taller tthan Maud but smaller than Toria
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Margot on June 03, 2011, 11:02:31 PM
Louise was 168 cm (5 foot 5) tall.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eddie_uk on June 09, 2011, 02:23:16 PM
From the engagement? Sweet they are holding hands!

(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/2383/edmund2q.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/121/edmund2q.jpg/)

Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: grandduchessella on June 09, 2011, 03:05:55 PM
Yes, it was the engagement photo. A rare marriage back then that seems to have been as happy the day it ended as it was the day it started.
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: miki_nastya on July 24, 2011, 01:54:04 PM
Yes...and also considering the age difference between them..
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: CountessKate on September 05, 2011, 05:48:15 AM
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a42/cfarnon/Miscl/LouiseFifedausc1898.jpg)

A nice photo of Louise Fife and her daughters in 1898, all with fishing rods!  Their costumes don't appear to be optimal for the sport......
Title: Re: Princess Louise,Princess Royal, Duchess of Fife
Post by: Eutropius on January 26, 2012, 11:47:54 PM
In the group wedding photograph picture posted by Grandduchessella (reply #168 on Pg. 12), the people standing are as follows from left to right: Princess Victoria, the Duke of Fife, Princess Louise, Princess May of Teck, Princess Marie Louise of Schleswig-Holstein, Countess Feodora Gleichen.  The people seated below are Princess Maud, Countess Helena Gleichen, Countess Victoria Gleichen, Princess Helena Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein.