Alexander Palace Forum

Books and Films about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia => Books about the Romanovs and Imperial Russia => Topic started by: Karentje on September 24, 2004, 08:10:17 AM

Title: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Karentje on September 24, 2004, 08:10:17 AM
Hi fellow Romanov enthusiasts

I've just started reading 'Anastasia, the lost princess' by James Blair Lovell and I wondered how seriously I should take its contents. Aside from the claim that AA was Anastasia, I find all sorts of information which I find very questionable: Alix supposedly had a fifth daughter, a Dutch lady proclaimed to be that fifth daughter and the tsar and his family were apparently all raped, except for little alexei.
I just wondered if anyone knows if there is any truth to any of this, or if Lovell's statements were ever challenged.
Also, tips on good Romanov books are always appreciated.

Thanks

Karentje

Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Alexa on September 24, 2004, 08:38:36 AM
Hi Karentje,

For recommendations on Romanov books, go to the Books section of the forums <http://hydrogen.pallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Books>.  Not only does it have a ton of books, but also feed back (both good and not so good) from people on the forum who have read them.

As for Lovell's book, well, I took it with a grain of salt.  The whole 5th daughter thing was just too much for me to believe.  For a great book on Anna Anderson, I'd recommend The Riddle of Anna Anderson by Peter Kurth.  Although I'm not a believer in Anna Anderson, his book is not only well written but is compelling and convincing.  It's the only book that really had me re-think my beliefs in her, and made me open my mind to the possibility.  Since then, I've gone back to being a non-believer, but that doesn't diminish the quality of Mr. Kurth's work in my opinion.

Alexa
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Karentje on September 24, 2004, 11:15:59 AM
Hi Alexa

Thank you very much for recommending the forum's book section!
I'll certainly read Peter Kurth's book then, because I would like to learn more about the whole Anna Anderson mystery.

Take care

Karentje
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: LisaDavidson on September 24, 2004, 12:20:00 PM
Peter Kurth's book is the one to read and not Lovell's. Sadly, Jimmy Lovell died young, and most people who know something about the case don't bother to challenge it - we simply ignore it.

Peter posts here on occassion and is a friend to us here at the Alexander Palace Society. Bob and I both cherish his friendship.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Annie on September 24, 2004, 02:44:40 PM
I have read both, and what bothers me about Lovell's book is he seems to be writing in the context that AA WAS AN and treats her life the same as if she had been. This is too much for me. Even though Kurth is an avid AA supporter, he was at least more objective in his writings and let you draw your own conclusions, or lack thereof.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Alexa on September 24, 2004, 03:54:34 PM
Quote
Hi Alexa

Thank you very much for recommending the forum's book section!
I'll certainly read Peter Kurth's book then, because I would like to learn more about the whole Anna Anderson mystery.

Take care

Karentje


My pleasure.  Any other questions, just feel free to ask.

Alexa
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Alexa on September 24, 2004, 03:55:31 PM
Quote
Even though Kurth is an avid AA supporter, he was at least more objective in his writings and let you draw your own conclusions, or lack thereof.


You hit the nail on the head.  That's one of the reasons why I enjoyed this book so much.

Alexa
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: rskkiya on November 12, 2004, 09:27:40 AM
Mr Lovell seems to have simply written down virtually everything AA muttered... including the highly irrational and senile ramblings of a deeply troubled mind...
   This book is a good source for information on the mental disorder of AA and her last minder/husband, Mr. Manahan as their thought patterns seem to disinitigrate just as their home falls in disrepair -- there is I believe a psychological name for this condition but I am unaware of it at the moment.
Generally its a disturbing read.

rskkiya

Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 12, 2004, 11:15:14 PM
Mrs. Manahan suffered from senility in her later years. Much of Lovell's book covers her more senile ramblings, which is unfortunate.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: IlyaBorisovich on November 13, 2004, 10:05:25 AM
Quote
Mrs. Manahan suffered from senility in her later years. Much of Lovell's book covers her more senile ramblings, which is unfortunate.


Isn't the condition called "anility" in women?  I seem to remember that from doing a lot of New York Times crossword puzzles.

Ilya
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Annie on November 13, 2004, 01:15:27 PM
What spooks me about this book is that he writes it as if AA WAS AN as a given fact. As strongly as Kurth believes in AA, at least his book was objective, written like she may or may not be.

There is also a thread on this book in the book forum here if you want to check it out.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: rskkiya on November 13, 2004, 06:47:10 PM
When AA was younger, her behaviour was often considered "irrational" but as far as I have read her story stayed pretty standard ... Only much later did the poor woman start elaborating on "sexual abuse of the family" and various alternative histories about other "Survivors"...  It seems as if she was testing the credulity and the "faith" that those around her had in the Grandduchess of Liberty Circle.

Or she may have simply been demented.

rskkiya
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Ilana on November 13, 2004, 09:19:12 PM
I remember when I read that book, gullible creature that I was at the time, I was so "grossed out" over the rape scenes, I couldn't sleep that night.  Horrible.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 13, 2004, 11:44:57 PM
Jeremy - the fact remains, her story did change as she aged. For her supporters, it became necessary to differentiate between senile ramblings such as those she related to Lovelll and the more reasoned communication of her earlier years. She was eccentric for years, but not senile. Once she became senile, and Lovell reported this crazy stuff, it did her cause tremendous harm.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Abby on November 13, 2004, 11:45:32 PM
Same here, Ilana, same here. I wished to death that AA was not Anastasia so what she said wouldn't be true. I can't beleive she said that ....and Lovell put that in the book. The fact that she said it so late in life kind of led me to beleive that she was making it up, since it wasn;t in her original story(stories).
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 15, 2004, 03:24:18 PM
While many of the tapes were in her more lucid years, the most bizarre I believe came from her much later years. The King Kong story comes to mind - related to Lovell after seeing a movie with him.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 15, 2004, 07:17:47 PM
Yes. I cringed when I read this, having read Peter's fine book. Maybe she did say this, but she was old and senile at the time, and it did not make her look very credible because it was a departure from what she said before.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Denise on March 11, 2005, 01:49:05 PM
This is one of the threads Bear...
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: AGRBear on March 11, 2005, 03:34:57 PM
Thanks Denise.

AGRBear
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: strom on March 14, 2005, 04:09:47 PM
I do not see that Lovell's Anna Anderson is different form Kurth's.  She came a little further by the time Lovell came along but then everything else had too.  There are many things said in Lovell that need to be looked at very carefully, unfortunately the royal houses of Europe and possibly the most secret papers of the US gov. are still closed.  In Rusia, too, I think there are many things that might still be found if one had access.
  Without going into all the facets of this case because it would take many books, the "rape" motif fits with Anna Anderson's case though I think she herself in younger years tried to mask the actual events of her escape from Russia because they were so utterly devastating.  She certainly did have an "ax to grind" and could have given as good as she got.  Madame Mutabor, indeed.  The Bolsheviks left them all alive because death was too easy of a way after what they had put them through.  
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Kransnoeselo on March 15, 2005, 10:11:00 PM
Hey,

    With regards to Lovell's account of Anna's statement about the murder of the tsar and the separation of the romanov women to Perm.  This coversation was not recorded-unlike other quotes which came directly from audio recordings which were made Anna's time in Germany up through her move to America.  In regards to the authenticity of the story I have been told by a noted Russian historian that Lovell admitted before his death to have made the story up.  Unfortunately there is no official documentation  of Lovell having made a confession just as there is no recording of Anna having made the account.

Thanks
Tim
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Versoix on February 02, 2006, 06:25:17 PM
Quote
Hey,

     With regards to Lovell's account of Anna's statement about the murder of the tsar and the separation of the romanov women to Perm.  This coversation was not recorded-unlike other quotes which came directly from audio recordings which were made Anna's time in Germany up through her move to America.  In regards to the authenticity of the story I have been told by a noted Russian historian that Lovell admitted before his death to have made the story up.  Unfortunately there is no official documentation  of Lovell having made a confession just as there is no recording of Anna having made the account.

Thanks
Tim


Dear Tim,

I'm not asking for your source, whom I assume wishes to remain anonymous, but is there any other way to confirm the assertion that Mr. Lovell confessed to having fabricated the so-called "King Kong" account? The point is, the waters are completely murky: We can't be sure Anastasia Manahan said what Lovell reported, and we can't be sure that Lovell admitted to fabrication.

Thank you,
Alec



Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Eddie_uk on February 03, 2006, 02:36:15 AM
I remember flicking through the book in a library once and thinking how absurd it all was and quite laughable. At one point she referred to Lovell as her heir...it was for him to tell her story.... bla bla bla  ;D ;D
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: dmitri on June 19, 2007, 12:43:41 PM
The books by Lovell and Kurth are so poor. They have one good use .... pulping.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Robert_Hall on June 19, 2007, 01:22:22 PM
Lovell's book is simply bizarre. But then, so was he, if one knew him.
 Kurth is another story. An excellent writer, and a very good book. He wrote the "bible" of the AA supporters, I suppose. Like most "bibles", no matter how well scribed, I just do not believe it. I do, however, like everyting Kurth writes, most of which, I do agree with- his political slant that is.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: AGRBear on June 19, 2007, 04:50:42 PM
I know nothing about Lovell,  however,  I am getting to know Peter Kurth through his posts on King's and Wilson's  chat room.  From what I see from where I'm sitting,  he digs into a subject,  discovers the facts, and, as far as I know, is the only one who has accomplished an excellent book on AA.  and the facts around her.   When a person reads all the stuff he post, now,  that wasn't in his book,  it is  even more understandable why he believed she was Grand Duchess Anastasia before the DNA test results.. 

I think it would be very interesting if he wrote a book about himself,  how he came to write the book on Anastasia,  and,  some of the things he wasn't able to place in his book about AA..

AGRBear
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: dmitri on June 23, 2007, 10:48:48 PM
It's very useful to keep you warm in winter. It is excellent as a firestarter. Apart from this it has no reason to exist. It is a total fabrication in support of an imposter. It is not worth your time or money.
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: Eddie_uk on June 24, 2007, 12:05:11 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: ashdean on June 24, 2007, 12:54:47 PM
The books by Lovell and Kurth are so poor. They have one good use .... pulping.
Say what you like about Lovell but Kurths book is EXCELLENT !!!!!!
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: ferrymansdaughter on June 25, 2007, 06:38:26 AM
I believe that Greg King has said that Lovell admitted to him that he made up some stuff, telescoped other stuff together the way they do in tv movies of true incidents, and that the King Kong stuff was fabricated.

Unlike's Peter Kurth's book which is well researched and amazingly footnoted, this one is just not worth the paper it was printed on but I did like some of the photos, especially the famous one of AA in the 20s with her birds.    It  is a real shame there is no film of her at that time.  I think that whichever side of the fence you are on,  it would be incredibly interesting to see her - and hear her - at that time in her life. 
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: AGRBear on June 25, 2007, 10:40:29 AM
I believe Lovell tapped many of his interviews with AA.  It would be interesting to hear what she actually said in those tapes.

AGRBear
Title: Re: anna anderson's biography by James B Lovell
Post by: dmitri on July 09, 2007, 07:24:06 AM
They are the demented gushings of a fraudster.