Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => The Imperial Family => Topic started by: KarlandZita on November 05, 2006, 08:46:14 AM

Title: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: KarlandZita on November 05, 2006, 08:46:14 AM
With to have seen of them only some, I find the photos where OTMA and Irina Alexandrovna pose together particulary beautiful and moving.

It's a pity really that Empress Alexandra did not let her daughters more attend the Grand Duchess Xenia's daughter because obviously, the girls seemed to appreciate themselves and get along well together.

Also, I thought of dedicating this space to them in order to gather there all the pictures where we can see OTMA and Irina together.

I thank by advance all future participants !
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: imperial angel on November 05, 2006, 07:13:40 PM
Yes, the cousins got along well. I think there are quite a few photos of them together. In the early years, otma saw quite a bit of Irina, although that lessened as the years went by, perhaps. But they still seem to have spent more time together than is usually assumed. Most of the photos of them seem to date from later, of otma and Irina together.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: KarlandZita on November 18, 2006, 09:35:03 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/aamirina.jpg)
Irina sitting with Alexei, Anastasia and Marie
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: tatianolishka_ on November 18, 2006, 09:45:10 AM
Pardon me, KarlandZita, but the photograph is of Alexei, Olga A, Xenia, Anastasia and two others. Marie is not in this picture and, as far as I can tell, Irina is not either.  :)
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: LisaDavidson on November 20, 2006, 04:47:21 PM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/Others%20Romanov/aamirina.jpg)
Irina sitting with Alexei, Anastasia and Marie

I identify those in the photos as follows:

From left to right - Tsesarevich Alexei N., Grand Duchess Olga A., Grand Duchess Anastasia N., Grand Duke Michael A., Grand Duchess Marie N. Seated in foreground - Grand Duchess Xenia A.

It appears to be a photo of the three youngest children of Alexander III with the three youngest children of their brother, HIM Emperor Nicholas II.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on November 21, 2006, 08:28:24 AM
I concur with Lisa's ID. I have the photo labeled the same way in my collection.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: KarlandZita on November 25, 2006, 09:50:23 AM
Generally, one more often sees Irina in company of Olga and of Tatiana because all the three were almost same age. Indeed, Irina had been born in 1895, just like Olga, and was only two years old more than Tatiana.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: KarlandZita on November 28, 2006, 11:16:13 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/io.jpg)
Irina with Olga

(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/tio.jpg)
Tatiana, Irina and Olga together
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: RomanovFan on December 10, 2006, 12:01:03 AM
Alexandra was really suspicious of the other Romanov relatives. She was afraid that if OTMA were around "wrong" people that might be a bad influence on them, so she didn't let them socialize with people their own ages, with the acception of Irina, her brothers and Greek Minny's girls, Nina and Xenia, as well as Olga Alexandrovna's boys, Tikhon and Yuri, on occassion.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 10, 2006, 12:42:39 AM
Yuri was not even born when OTMAA were alive, he was born in 1919, a year after OTMAA's deaths. And I don't think OTMAA ever met Tikhon, maybe heard of his birth and what not.

OTMA were also playmates of Grand Duchess Helen Vladimirovna daughters- Olga, Elizabeth and Marina of Greece. Alexei even said to OEM's father Prince Nicholas of Greece in 1916 as an ambassador for his brother Tino, “Give my love to Olga and Elizabeth". I guess he and Marina didn't really get along or the age gap can be a difference. Possibly Their parents friendship got bumpy when Alix refused Grand Duchess Vladimir marriage thought of her son Boris marring her Olga and cause more trouble with the Imperial couple and the Vladimirvichi family. When OEM heard of OTMAA’s death, they were bitterly upset.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on December 10, 2006, 08:51:43 AM
Yuri was not even born when OTMAA were alive, he was born in 1919, a year after OTMAA's deaths. And I don't think OTMAA ever met Tikhon, maybe heard of his birth and what not.

That's exactly right. Tikhon was born in near-exile in the Crimea on 25 August 1917. NAOTMAA were in Tobolsk at the time, and learned of his birth through letters from their relatives. I think Alexandra refers to his birth in her diary, or one of her letters. She says something like, Olga is enjoying her little Tikhon...
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: imperial angel on December 10, 2006, 06:13:47 PM
Marina was the one who later married the Duke of Kent was she not? Does anyone know what memories she might have had of OTMAA, since she spent time with them when not many did in their childhoods? I have never read what her memories were of them, what she thought of them, but would be very curious. Also, are there any pictures of them together?
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 11, 2006, 12:14:16 PM
Marina was the one who later married the Duke of Kent was she not? Does anyone know what memories she might have had of OTMAA, since she spent time with them when not many did in their childhoods? I have never read what her memories were of them, what she thought of them, but would be very curious. Also, are there any pictures of them together?

Marina?,  :) yes, she marries the Duke of Kent in 1934. I don't recall of ever hearing that Marina had writing memoirs. She wasn't really close to OTMAA, they never seen each other again after 1914 when Marina was nearly eight years old, Marina and her sisters were in Russia visiting their grandmother the Grand Duchess Vladimir,  while OTMAA were out of town at the Peterhof or on the Standart (I think). Marina and her sisters use to play with OTMAA as small children, but OEM were not very close to OTMAA, the three girls more common playmates were the four daughters of Prince Andrew and Princess Alice of Greece.

And yes, there is  a few photos of OTMA with the three girls (i have in my collection and) over the web :), but i have none of Alexei with OEM, I have seen one of him with Olga and Elizabeth in 1909.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: imperial angel on December 11, 2006, 12:30:30 PM
Thanks. I guessed they weren't close, but was wondering what their memories might have been. I guess I won't ever know. I thought they might remember something, although the stuff Prince John is said to think of otma in the Lost Prince is more fact than fantasy perhaps. But, it is interesting to imagine otma's impact, even if it was little enough as the lost royal relatives of these people. Not having seen any photos of them together that I remember, can you post those somewhere, if not this thread?
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on December 11, 2006, 12:59:04 PM
These are labeled in my collection as "greek" but I don't know the Greek royal family well enough to ID them individually myself!  ;)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/th_greecehesserussia.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/greecehesserussia.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/th_OTMAgreekbabies.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/OTMAgreekbabies.jpg)
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/th_naotmagreekies.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/naotmagreekies.jpg)
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: julia.montague on December 11, 2006, 02:06:29 PM
The girls in the first picture are Margharita and Theodora, the daughters of Prince Andrew of Greece and Alice of Battenberg.
In the third I think there is Elena Vladimirovna, so I guess the "greek girls" are hers ;D
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: imperial angel on December 11, 2006, 03:16:16 PM
Yes, that's what I was looking for. These pictures are rather confused, and hard to follow, they are not as clear as the photos of otma and Irina. I think that supports the conclusion that they were just playmates in a family way rather than that they had much of a relationship. I suppose the girls might not have had very clear memories of otma, although I am not sure that even that conclusion has been written on the subject. I think it seems the most supported one though, anyway did otma spend more time with Victoria Milford Haven's children than the Greek cousins? I would guess so, as Lord Mountbatten remembered Marie quite well.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on December 11, 2006, 08:51:48 PM
I found one more:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/th_wolfsgartengreekshesse.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/wolfsgartengreekshesse.jpg)
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: imperial angel on December 12, 2006, 10:53:04 AM
I think that's them with not the Vladmirvichi Greek children, but rather the the children of Andrew of Greece and Alice of Battenberg. But, who is the boy in the picture with the dark hair? He wasn't a child of the Greece-Battenberg marriage, nor of Elena of Russia.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on December 12, 2006, 11:27:06 AM
All I know is that the photo was taken in approximately 1910 in Wolfsgarten.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: julia.montague on December 12, 2006, 12:51:42 PM
the greek girls are OTMA's first cousins once removed, the Hesse boys are their first cousins, so maybe that boy is also a distant cousin or something ;D
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 12, 2006, 03:58:30 PM
I think that's them with not the Vladmirvichi Greek children, but rather the the children of Andrew of Greece and Alice of Battenberg. But, who is the boy in the picture with the dark hair? He wasn't a child of the Greece-Battenberg marriage, nor of Elena of Russia.

The boy is Prince Louis of Battenberg (later Lord Mountbatten), always known as "Dickie". He is the yonugest son of Alix's sister Victoria, and Alice's brother and  uncle of the Greeko-Battenberg girls and Philip (The Duke of Edinburgh, husband of Queen Elizabeth II). AND 1st cousin of OTMAA.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on December 12, 2006, 03:59:28 PM
A tiny picture of Dickie with Olga or Tatiana.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/greek/OlgaandcousinDickieLouisofBattenber.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v477/MMPC/greek/bnjcgk.jpg)

Alexei (in sailor suit) with his Hessian cousin Don (oldest son of the Grand Duke and Duchess of Hesse).
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Eric_Lowe on December 13, 2006, 01:52:59 AM
Indeed ! the boy was indeed Dickie Mountbatten ! He was said to be in love with Grand Duchess Marie and kept her photo at his desk... ;D
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Elizaveta on December 14, 2006, 06:04:03 PM
I found one more:
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/th_wolfsgartengreekshesse.jpg) (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/sarahelizabethii/Romanov/Abroad/wolfsgartengreekshesse.jpg)


Ohh! I've never seen it before! Where did you find it?

One can see Maria in the background  :D ...it's the first time I ever saw a picture with a royal sooo far away from the camera.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: KarlandZita on December 30, 2006, 08:50:00 AM
(http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i221/pastroyals/OTMA/girls1.jpg)


This photo is the last known of the Tsar's daughters vith their cousin Irina Alexandrovna. There are of them no others to my knowledge because all those which exist were already posted previously on this thread.
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on December 30, 2006, 11:00:13 AM
The family resemblence between Irina and the Big Pair is quite striking in that shot!  :o
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Eric_Lowe on January 04, 2007, 08:59:58 PM
Where did you find them ? Another Russian book ?  ???
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Sarushka on January 05, 2007, 07:44:32 AM
Where did you find them ? Another Russian book ?  ???
Exactly which pictures are you referring to? I can tell you that the one KarlandZita posted of OT & Irina on the balcony at Peterhof comes from the Beinicke Albums (as do the other shots from that day). I believe the photo Mandie posted of Aleksei and Don of Hesse can be found in The Jewel Album of Nicholas II (http://www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/books.html?sku=10).
Title: Re: OTMA & Irina together Pictures
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on January 05, 2007, 07:48:44 AM
 Eric  you can also find it (the one of OT with Irina) here :), Yale University (http://highway49.library.yale.edu/romanov/) type in "romanov" and then chick on "Browse the Romanov albums". thats my why of finding it.  :)