Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Rulers Prior to Nicholas II => Topic started by: Lisa on February 16, 2006, 04:23:14 AM

Title: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Lisa on February 16, 2006, 04:23:14 AM
NATALIA ALEXEIEVNA, Pavel's first wife:
1776 by ROSLIN: (http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/2294/1refemmepaulroslin17763rt.th.jpg) (http://img117.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1refemmepaulroslin17763rt.jpg) ; idem: (http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/3693/1refemmepaulroslin177622sx.th.jpg) (http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1refemmepaulroslin177622sx.jpg) ; 1774 by FALCONET (the sculptor's son): (http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/6036/1774falconetp7gp.th.jpg) (http://img225.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1774falconetp7gp.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: synnadene on March 23, 2007, 02:12:23 PM

Dear Discussion Group,

I started this thread in order to collect the portraits of Pss Wilhelmine of Hesse, first wife of Tsar Paul I. as Grand Duchess NATALIA ALEXEIEVNA.

Please, help me to find pictures and it would be also great to read some informations about her.

Thanks in advance,

Synnadene
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yseult on March 23, 2007, 03:10:09 PM
Nothing at all, Synnadenne.
Natalia always seemed to me a very sad historical figure. If I´m not mistaken, somewhere I read that her husband Paul loved her passionately but, after the death of the wife in childbirth, Catherine the Great, wishing to put to an end the almost hysterical mourning of her son, showed him letters sended by Natalia to her lover. Is it true?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ilyala on March 24, 2007, 12:56:14 AM
i didn't know there were any letters, but it's true that catherine tried (i don't know if she succeeded, given the relationship she and paul had) to convince him that his wife had been unfaithful in order to get him to marry soon after her death.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Svetabel on March 24, 2007, 03:16:33 AM
Nothing at all, Synnadenne.
Natalia always seemed to me a very sad historical figure. If I´m not mistaken, somewhere I read that her husband Paul loved her passionately but, after the death of the wife in childbirth, Catherine the Great, wishing to put to an end the almost hysterical mourning of her son, showed him letters sended by Natalia to her lover. Is it true?

Sad figure???? Well, she died young, it's true, so sad, but for the Russian court she was more a mess than a sad figure. Natalia was too ambitious, too arrogant, too extravagant, too egoistic and definitely not as pure as an angel. She did not love her husband (and fell in love with Andrey Razumovskiy), she did not love Russia, she did not want to learn Russian - it's a nonsense for a future possible Tsarina of all the Russians - and Ekaterina II was furious about this.
Actually I don't see any sadness only bitterness that such a Princess was Pavel's first wife. Though she was of course a victim of the matrimonial intrigues of Friedrich II and her parents.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ilyala on March 24, 2007, 10:18:14 AM
considering the way royal marriage (hers included) happened in those days i can't say i blame her for not fall in love with someone she was forced to be with, probably a complete stranger whom she met on her wedding day. i don't not about her ambition and arrogance but if she married against her wish and did not love her husband i can also understand why she didn't want to learn russian - it was her way to rebel.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yseult on March 24, 2007, 12:24:39 PM


Sad figure???? Well, she died young, it's true, so sad, but for the Russian court she was more a mess than a sad figure. Natalia was too ambitious, too arrogant, too extravagant, too egoistic and definitely not as pure as an angel. She did not love her husband (and fell in love with Andrey Razumovskiy), she did not love Russia, she did not want to learn Russian - it's a nonsense for a future possible Tsarina of all the Russians - and Ekaterina II was furious about this.
Actually I don't see any sadness only bitterness that such a Princess was Pavel's first wife. Though she was of course a victim of the matrimonial intrigues of Friedrich II and her parents.
[/quote]

Well, Svetabel...I suppose she had not an easy life. She was forced to left behind her country and family to enter into the russian court, as the wife of a man who was not "her charming prince". She was a prisoner into a state marriage, under the surveillance of a quite formidable mother-in-law. To be the wife of Paul and the daughter-in-law of great Catherine could have been so much for the hessian princess. After her, one woman of substance as Maria Feodorovna was could make it through, but not easily (it is well constructed this phrase? If not...my apologies). If she tried to obtain some measure of personal happines in the arms of Razvmousky, I can not blame her for it! But it was not fair play for Catherine to show her love letters when she was dead...She was ruinning Natalia´s image in the memories of Paul and also Natalia´s reputation.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Svetabel on March 24, 2007, 01:20:19 PM
Well, Svetabel...I suppose she had not an easy life. She was forced to left behind her country and family to enter into the russian court, as the wife of a man who was not "her charming prince". She was a prisoner into a state marriage, under the surveillance of a quite formidable mother-in-law. To be the wife of Paul and the daughter-in-law of great Catherine could have been so much for the hessian princess. After her, one woman of substance as Maria Feodorovna was could make it through, but not easily (it is well constructed this phrase? If not...my apologies). If she tried to obtain some measure of personal happines in the arms of Razvmousky, I can not blame her for it! But it was not fair play for Catherine to show her love letters when she was dead...She was ruinning Natalia´s image in the memories of Paul and also Natalia´s reputation.

Seems you think that I blame Natalia. No, I just fixed the facts. She was a victim of the matrimonial plans of King Friedrich II and Tsarina Ekaterina II as I had said in my previous post.
As for the Ekaterina's act with showing letters to Pavel --well, of course, that was not a fair play but the Empress was very often unfair if the private matters came in contact with the politics.Alas...And I can say again that Natalia was a victim who dared to rebel but anyway was her rebellion good to anyoned and herself?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yseult on March 24, 2007, 02:04:58 PM
You´re right, Svetabel ;)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ilyala on March 25, 2007, 06:36:37 AM
in those days the word of order was 'duty'. in these days, though, when much more selfish approaches are more popular, i'm sure most people understand why she did what she did. she might have hurt people around her but she herself was hurt in return by them.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ivanushka on March 25, 2007, 11:36:27 AM
Good choice for a forum topic, Synnadene!

And thanks for posting the portraits, Yseult.  I've always found Natalia an interesting figure and have often wondered what she looked like.  Where did you find them?

I feel sorry for her in that her life ended so tragically, but less so in terms of how her life had gone until then.  She was a princess and would have been raised to believe that her fate was to make a political marriage.  Bearing in mind that she came from the comparatively humble state of Hesse Darmstadt, marrying the heir to the Russian throne was a major coup.  Also, she married a man who, though probably not the world's easiest person to live with, was at least in love with her - not a fate shared by all of her contemporaries.  I find it surprising that she had taken a lover with a couple of years of marrying, and though, as I said, her fate was tragic, I suspect that had she lived she would have made a fairly lousy Empress.

When she first went to Russia with her mother, two of her sisters went with her so that Paul could take his pick!  Interestingly enough, one of the rejected sisters (Amalia, I think) later married the heir to the duchy of Baden and was the mother of Elizabeth, wife of Alexander I.  Then, as now, it was a small world!!!
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yseult on March 25, 2007, 01:14:52 PM
Ivanushka...I can not tell you where I found these portraits. I´m always searching for historical portraits, I collect them, but I never remember where I found this or that portrait  :-[
I´m very interested in what you said about Paul making his choice between three hessian sisters who had traveled from their little country to the great russian empire with their mother. It´s funny enough one sister of Natalia Alexeievna had been Amalie, the mother of Elizaveta Alexeievna. Elizaveta is my favourite historical figure at these times, but I have read just a little about her, so this information is absolutely new for me. Do you know how felt Amalie about the ill-fate of her sister Natalia Alexeievna? Amalie said anything about "aunt Natalia" to her daughters Louise and Friederike when these girls went to San Petersburg to marry Alexander and Constantin?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ivanushka on March 25, 2007, 02:01:15 PM
Yseult - I don't know what Amalia said to her daughters when they went to Russia.  It's only recently that I discovered the connection between Amalia and Natalia.  I would imagine that she gave them two pieces of advice:

1)  If you marry and then take a lover, don't get caught!
2)  Make sure you have a wonderful midwife when you give birth!

Seriously, I imagine Amalia must have had quite mixed feelings about it.  She must have felt rejected when Paul chose her sister, but then, if her own marriage was a happy one (I'm not sure if it was as I don't know enough about her) then she probably had no regrets.  As both Baden and Hesse were tiny compared to Russia (each had a population of around 200,000 compared to Russia's 20+ million) she must have been excited at the prospect of a matrimonial link for her daughter(s) with the Romanovs.  I also remember reading in Henri Troyat's biography of Catherine the Great, that Amalia and Natalia's mother got on very well with Catherine the Great during their visit to Russia so that may have also have encouraged Amalia to think well of the Romanovs.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: imperial angel on March 29, 2007, 08:36:38 AM
I had read that Catherine did show these letters to Paul so that he would move on and not mourn this wife who certainly didn't live up to dynastic standards of Romanov brides. She just wanted him to move on and marry again and have heirs for the dynasty.I think Catherine was just being pragmatic as she was so much when she showed him these letters, at least according to a quite a few biographies of Catherine the Great I have read. I think she did it for practical reasons. As for Natalia, she seems to have been not the right wife for Paul nor the right kind of woman to someday be Tsarina. Yet, Paul loved her. She was just a pawn of royal marriage.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on May 29, 2007, 11:19:10 AM
First of all: Natalia was not forced into that marriage by her mother. Landgravine Caroline wrote explicitely that she would not leave one of her three daughters in Russia against their own wish.

It is not quite correct that the Grand Duchess did not learn the Russian language: in the letters written to her mother (see Archive of the Stat of Hesse, Darmstadt, Germany) she often mentiones her progress and that she "begins to understand what people are saying".
She lived not even three years in Russia - so of course she might not have spoken the language perfectly.
I doubt that she has had a "lover" as (besides that this is no fact at all, but just - as often - rumor) she had not given birth to a child yet and nobody would have dared to have an affair with the heir's consort.

It seems that in 1776 the stuff nursing her when trying to give birth to her son was completely incompetent. The Empress behaved wrongly....and Natalia died 8 days long...




Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: CountessKate on May 30, 2007, 06:54:32 AM
Parents were often pretty brutal to their children when dynasties were at stake.  Joseph II was forced to marry again by his parents, very much against his will, when his first wife Isabel of Parma died in childbirth - he had no sons, and his brothers at time were unmarried, so the Habsburgs were dangerously short of heirs.  The same happened in the case of the Dauphin Louis, son of Louis XV, when his first wife died - no time was lost in searching out a second bride, though the Dauphin had been extremely attached to his wife and was not at all keen to marry again.  The Romanovs were even closer to extinction when Natalia died, and Catherine couldn't allow Paul to grieve - she had to get the next generation established as quickly as possible, for her own sake just as much as the dynasty's.  She probably thought she was helping Paul, in detaching him from his first wife by portraying her in a bad light and allowing him to move on - Catherine was always insensitive where Paul was concerned.  The Dauphin and Paul were lucky in their second wives, who made a success of their respective marriages, so no doubt Louis XV and Catherine considered themselves to have been right to insist on their sons' remarriages. 
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ivanushka on May 30, 2007, 09:12:11 AM
You're right, Countess Kate.  Survival of the dynasty above everything.  Another example of this was the Empress Maria Theresa who wanted to marry one of her daughters to Ferdinand of Naples.  Two daughters (I believe) were engaged to Ferdinand but both died before a marriage could take place so it was a third daughter, Caroline, who ended up going to Italy. 

This would be particularly true for Catherine the Great: Paul was her only child, his health had not been particularly robust as a child and as she had no actual right through blood to be on the throne herself she must have been desperate for him to give her some grandchildren as fast as possible.  It was only in 1780, when she had two grandsons, that she allowed Ivan VI's brothers and sisters to leave Kholmogory and go to Denmark.  Until then she had kept them in reserve in case she had to find another heir.

I doubt that she has had a "lover" as (besides that this is no fact at all, but just - as often - rumor) she had not given birth to a child yet and nobody would have dared to have an affair with the heir's consort.

Thomas - I found your post very interesting.  In particular I had no idea that her mother was determined not to force any of her daughters to stay in Russia against their will.  That was a very modern attitude - particularly as the benefits to Hesse in an alliance with the Romanovs would be so great. 






Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on May 31, 2007, 02:40:28 PM
It also quite clear that Ekaterina II - when realizing that Natalia was unable to give birth to the child and that it would be almost impossible to save her life - took no interest any longer in her and began to search in mind for the next consort for Pavel: Sophie Dorothea, princess of Württemberg who was to become Marija Feodorovna
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Duke of New Jersey on May 31, 2007, 03:45:50 PM
Well Catherine the Great did want grandchildren more than her contemptories.  I guess (as ivanushka) said her claim to the throne was resting on Paul and his children.  If Paul had died without children she would have more likely than not been forced off the throne.

-Duke of NJ
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ivanushka on June 01, 2007, 06:59:12 AM
Exactly, Duke of NJ.  It's iinteresting to speculate on what would have happened had Paul died without issue.  It's difficult to see what Catherine could have done in such an event.  She could have brought one of Ivan VI's brothers out of confinement but it's doubtful that he would have made a good or popular choice.  Another option would have been to legitimise her son by Grigori Orlov, Alexis Bobrinksy, but I suspect that would have been even less popular!
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Mandie, the Gothic Empress on June 01, 2007, 07:45:12 AM

Dear Discussion Group,

I started this thread in order to collect the portraits of Pss Wilhelmine of Hesse, first wife of Tsar Paul I. as Grand Duchess NATALIA ALEXEIEVNA.

Please, help me to find pictures and it would be also great to read some informations about her.

Thanks in advance,

Synnadene

I don't much of Natalia, only that she was Paul's first wife and some rumors she had a lover. Dies in childbrith, the child a stillborn son.    :-\

look on "Imperial Family" and go to "Portraits I-II" theres a lot of Natalia pics there.  :)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: gem_10 on September 10, 2007, 08:37:12 PM
I'm always interested about Natalia Alexeievna. For me, she was more like a tragic figure, a victim of circumstances. She was always mentioned in books about Catherine the Great and Paul. In those books they always claim that Natalia didn't like to study the Russian language and that she took Paul's best friend as her lover. I'm not sure if all of these claims are true since Catherine didn't seem to like Natalia and she might have tried to paint her daughter-in-law's character in a bad way.  :-\ It was also said that Natalia was ambitious but very pretty and charming. Paul was head-over-heels for her, and her death almost made him insane.
 
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: lori_c on September 27, 2007, 01:23:08 PM
Just out of curiosity, can somebody tell me how she is related ancestrally to AF?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yseult on September 27, 2007, 03:50:04 PM
Just out of curiosity, can somebody tell me how she is related ancestrally to AF?

Of course. She was one sister of landgrave Ludwig X, later grand duke Ludwig I of Hesse-Darmstadt. Ludwig I was the father of Ludwig II, who married Wilhelmine of Baden and had several children including Ludwig III, prince Karl of Hesse and tsarevna María Alexandrovna. So, Natalia was the aunt of Ludwig II, father of the paternal grand-father of Alix.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: lori_c on September 28, 2007, 01:08:12 PM
WOW!  Thanks so much.  The Hessian lineage is quite confusing to me because it overlaps so much in almost every family.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: CountessKate on November 10, 2007, 05:20:23 AM
The alleged lover of Natalia Alexeievna was Count Andrei Razumovski (b.1752), the nephew of Alexis Razoumovski, Empress Elizabeth's 'Night Emperor'.  He had been in command of one of the three ships which had been sent to convey the Princess to Russia and had formed part of the junior court surrounding the Grand Ducal couple.  Catherine had already tried, in a rather clumsy way, to separate him from Paul and Natalia as she was intensely suspicious of any courtiers who attached themselves to her son rather than to herself, but without success.  Paul  "protested and declared that he would never allow a friend to be taken away from him".  When Natalia died, however, Catherine seized her correspondence - expecting to find conspiratorial material - but instead found whatever she used to accuse Razumovski of being Natalia's lover.  Razumovski protested his innocence, which of course was not believed, but at this point in time it's difficult to know what exactly the correspondence consisted of and how Catherine used it.  Would Razumovski have taken the line he did if the evidence had been clearly compromising?  At any event, Paul believed it and would not see him, and Catherine sent Razumovski into at Reval, later appointing him Russian Minister at Naples.  In 1799, he was allowed back into Russia, so Paul obviously forgave him (or hadn't really believed him to be guilty in the longer term but had gone along with Catherine in his first grief and sense of betrayal).  Under Alexander I, Razumovski had a very distinguished diplomatic career in Copenhagen, Stockholm and most importantly, in Vienna.  In Vienna he married a Lobkowicz and was a patron of Beethoven, commissioning three string quartets from him (Razumovski played the violincello); he stayed on in Vienna after his diplomatic appointment had finished, and built a neoclassical palace in Vienna which alas burnt down after a ball in 1814.  It was rebuilt, with a loan from Alexander I, but Razumovski was shattered and lived in seclusion in Vienna until his death in 1836.

Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: CountessKate on November 10, 2007, 05:48:22 AM
In fact I was incorrect in my genealogy; Razumovski married Maria Elizabeth of Thun-Hohenstein, whose mother Maria Wilhelmine of Thun-Hohenstein, was a Grande Dame of the Vienna nobility, and the Thun-Hohenstein palace was a centre of music and high society. Maria Wilhelmine von Thun had already been a patron of Mozart, and Hayden frequented her salon.  Razumovski's sister-in-law Maria Christine married Prince Karl von Lichnowsky, another patron of Beethoven.  So at least Beethoven got some benefit from the sad little drama at the Russian court.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: ivanushka on November 19, 2007, 06:20:45 PM
Apparently Paul's second wife, Maria Feodorovna of Wurtemburg was engaged to Natalia's brother (the future Louis X of Hesse) at the time of Natalia's death.  As she had been Catherine the Great's favourite choice for a wife for Paul (only excluded the first time because she was too young), the engagement was promptly broken and Maria married Paul instead.  It was a small world in royal circles!
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: CountessKate on November 26, 2007, 11:29:20 AM
Quote
It was a small world in royal circles!

Well, actually it was.  Catholics were out due to the difficulties with religious conversion, and the young woman had to meet stringent criteria of  health, fecundity, heredity (royal birth and not too many raving lunatics among the ancestry); good looks were not so important but obvious ugliness should be avoided as the Grand Duke might not then feel inclined to carry out his conjugal duties; good manners, some general indications of being submissive to the will of the Empress and not likely to cause a fuss or domineer over the Grand Duke to the point where he might be encouraged to challenge Catherine were extremely important, especially after Natalia had apparently done just that.  Since Sophia Dorothea had already been vetted, and speed was of the essence, it was much easier to bribe Ludwig of Hesse to give up his fiancee than to put in hand another exhaustive and exhausting search.  Catherine wrote "I am infatuated with this charming Princess, but literally infatuated. She is precisely what one would have wished: the figure of a nymph, a lily and rose complexion, the loveliest skin in the world, tall and well built; she is grateful; sweetness, kindnesses and innocence are reflected in her face" which was very similar to what she had written about Natalia, and her opinion of Paul's second wife lasted just as long as her opinion of his first.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on December 20, 2008, 02:28:07 AM
Natalia Alexeievna, 1773 by P.E. Falconet

(http://inlinethumb24.webshots.com/44247/2901735670061759156S600x600Q85.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Marc on December 20, 2008, 09:18:48 AM
It's a beautiful portrait!Does anyone have it bigger?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on December 21, 2008, 02:10:54 AM
No. Porttrait I find on this page http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2901735670061759156yGuhBD
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Marc on December 21, 2008, 07:28:33 AM
Thank you.It's a lovely portrait and too bad that there is not a bogger one..
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: gogm on December 21, 2008, 03:01:24 PM
This portrait is sold by a poster seller and is otherwise unavailable on the Internet. When poster sellers get an image, they usually limit access to only small images unless you want to see their logotype splashed across the middle of the image. They also keep other versions off of the Internet. Good for sales.

The artist Pierre-Étienne Falconet can be found on the Internet, but not very often.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: RomanovsFan4Ever on July 27, 2009, 05:02:38 PM
Grand Duchess Natalia Alexeievna of Russia (Princess Wilhelmina Louisa of Hesse-Darmstadt), first wife of Paul I
By Alexander Roslin

(http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/45606/2679773020101857556S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2679773020101857556gPXzHl)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on September 05, 2009, 03:17:53 AM


Portrait of Grand Duchess Natalia Alexeevna. A. Roslin, 1778 (author copy of portrait 1776 year).

(http://www.ljplus.ru/img4/r/o/rostislava/Natalia-Alexeevna.JPG)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: King François X on October 15, 2009, 08:59:06 PM
I actually think the top portrait of the post above shes pregnant?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on June 08, 2010, 10:05:50 AM
Letter to the Empress Catherine II on the death of Grand Duchess Natalia Alexeevna:
"God wills it was. What! But I can say that there was nothing to miss, that only the human mind and the art could devise to save her. But there were concurrence of different unfortunate circumstances that have made this case almost unique in the world.
Grand Duke of Quasimodo (April 10, 1776) morning at four o'clock came to me and announced that the Grand Duchess was suffering from midnight, but as the pangs were not strong, it hesitated to wake me. I got up and went to her and found her in decent condition, and stayed with her until ten o'clock in the morning, and saw that she still has no direct meal, went to get dressed, and her back in 12 hours. By the evening meal was so strong that at any moment expecting her permission. And then when it except the best in the city of her midwife, Countess Ekaterina Mikhailovna Rumyantseva, her camera-in-waiting, the Great Duke and me, there was no one, the same doctor was in the front. Night all gone, and pain were the variables with sleep: sometimes rose and sometimes fell as she saw fit. Another day we spent in the same way, but were intended Cruz and Thode, who followed the advice of his midwife, but without success to be our good hope. On Tuesday, the doctor demanded Rogerson and Lindeman, because my midwife gave up the chance. On Wednesday, Thode was admitted, but nothing could preduspet. Child was dead, but the bones remained in the same situation. On Thursday the Grand Duchess was to profess, intermingled and oil extreme unction, and on Friday betrayed the soul to God.
I and the Grand Duke, all five days and day and night were hopeless at it. After the death of the opening of the body was found that the Grand Duchess from childhood had been damaged, that the spinal bone was not only as S, but the part that should be arched, concave, and was lying on the back of the head child? That the bones were four inches in circumference and not could have opened a child in the shoulders was nine inches. Also appertaining joined other circumstances, of which no examples. In a word, such coincidence is not allowed nor mother, nor child of staying alive. My sorrow was great, but who have betrayed the will of God, now we need to think about the award of loss".
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 08, 2010, 01:07:52 PM
Grand Duchess Natalia
(http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt94/KaiserinCharlotte/VictorianGowns/Nataliya.jpg)

Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on June 09, 2010, 07:06:23 AM
I like this portrait of her is very like
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on June 09, 2010, 07:09:32 AM
Letter to the Empress Catherine II of landgrafine Hesse-Darmstadt (10 November 1773):
"Your daughter is healthy, it is still gentle and kind, what you know it. Her husband adores her, and it praises and recommends it, I listen and sometimes rolled with laughter, because she does not need the recommendations of its recommendation in my heart, I love her, she so deserved and I am quite satisfied with it. You have to be terribly exacting and worse some gossips not to be satisfied that the princess, as I pleased with it that tell you, because it's true. I asked her to do the Russian language, and she promised me. In general, our family life is going very well ...».
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on June 24, 2010, 02:22:03 PM
A bust
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/VictorianLadies/NataliyaAlexeyevna.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Yelena Aleksandrovna on September 29, 2010, 01:36:08 PM
Found this as her on a Russian site
(http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv226/KaiserinAlzbeta/Royals/NatachaRuss.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on July 12, 2011, 10:47:25 AM
Tombstone of Natalia Alexeevna

(http://www.lavraspb.ru/images/stories/Tanya/Blagov/61.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on July 12, 2011, 03:37:05 PM
Alexandrina-Sofia, is Natalia Alexeievna buried in the Grand Ducal Vault, or somewhere else? 
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on July 14, 2011, 07:59:07 AM
Natalia Alexeievna buried in the Alexander Nevsky Lavra.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on August 03, 2011, 10:51:55 PM
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6124/6007099559_befb85898f_b.jpg)

Natalia Alexeievna by Falconet
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on August 09, 2011, 07:28:04 PM
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6064/6027628970_ef0c6ec4a1_b.jpg)

Natalia Alexeievna.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Marc on August 09, 2011, 11:10:17 PM
Do you know who is the paintor and where could it be now?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on August 10, 2011, 03:38:42 PM
Do you know who is the paintor and where could it be now?

If I remember correctly, it's in the Regional Art Museum in Lugansk, but I don't know who the artist is.  Here is another image of Natalia Alexeievna:

(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6075/6029839509_faa842f6bf_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: gem_10 on August 11, 2011, 12:53:06 AM
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6064/6027628970_ef0c6ec4a1_b.jpg)

Natalia Alexeievna.


Wonderful portrait Dru! It's completely new for me. When was it painted?
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on August 11, 2011, 01:36:21 PM
Sadly, I don't know when it was painted...
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on September 13, 2011, 09:06:01 AM
Portrait of princess Wilhelmina Louise of Hesse-Darmstadt.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Schlossmuseum_DA_06.jpg/436px-Schlossmuseum_DA_06.jpg)
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Marc on September 16, 2011, 06:07:23 PM
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6064/6027628970_ef0c6ec4a1_b.jpg)

Natalia Alexeievna.

The same portrait by Johann Ludwig Stecker in Frankfuther Goethe-Museum identified as her sister Louise:

http://www.bildergipfel.de/products.php/luise_herzogin_von_sachsen-weimar-eisenach_johann_ludwig_strecker/cPath,5_26_33

The museum is obviously wrong as letters in her orden are written in cyrillic just indicating who the sitter is...
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on December 15, 2012, 04:03:35 PM
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8341/8275075183_fa99ae0ab6_b.jpg)

Medallion featuring Pavel Petrovich and Natalia Alexeievna.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Thomas_Hesse on December 17, 2012, 04:07:00 PM
The museum is obviously wrong as letters in her orden are written in cyrillic just indicating who the sitter is...

The museum is correct - the portrait shows Natalia/Wilhelmine's youngest sister Luise Grand Duchess of Saxe Weimar, Goethe's close friend.

Empress Catherine decorated not only Wilhelmine but also her mother Caroline and her two sisters Amalie and Luise (who all came to Russia to meet the Heir who was supposed to chose one of them) with the order of St. Catharine. Therefore the caption is quite correct. Another copy of the Strecker is located in the Porcelain Collection of the Grand Dukes of Hesse, Prinz Georg Palace, Darmstadt.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Marc on December 17, 2012, 05:04:51 PM
The museum is obviously wrong as letters in her orden are written in cyrillic just indicating who the sitter is...

The museum is correct - the portrait shows Natalia/Wilhelmine's youngest sister Luise Grand Duchess of Saxe Weimar, Goethe's close friend.

Empress Catherine decorated not only Wilhelmine but also her mother Caroline and her two sisters Amalie and Luise (who all came to Russia to meet the Heir who was supposed to chose one of them) with the order of St. Catharine. Therefore the caption is quite correct. Another copy of the Strecker is located in the Porcelain Collection of the Grand Dukes of Hesse, Prinz Georg Palace, Darmstadt.

Thank you for this information Thomas ;) these mislabels are quite often when siblings are in question...just like the one with Wuerttemberg sisters,where Elisabeth and Friederike are often mistaken when labeled!
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Alexandrina-Sofia on February 17, 2013, 12:31:17 AM
Letter from Catherine II Baron Grimm December 21, 1774

"She (Natalia Alekseevna) was constantly sick, but how can she not be sick? Ney from all over the extreme. If you are thinking to walk on foot, 20 miles away, if it starts to dance, then immediately dances 20 Contradance menuetov and the same, except Allemann. That the room was too hot, the heat stopped them altogether. Some rubbed themselves with ice face, we turned the whole body in the face. In short, the golden mean is far from us. Fearing evil people, we feed distrust of all general and do not take any advice - neither good nor bad. In short, have not seen any of kindness, no care, no reason. God knows where all this will lead, as we listen to anyone not want, and have our own little will. Imagine now a half years as we have here, and still do not know a word in Russian. We demand that we have been taught, and at the same time do not want to dedicate this moment diligence. In all one vertoprahstvo, then that is what else we do not ponutru. Debts have doubled than the domain, and it seems hardly anyone in Europe this much."
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: CountessKate on February 17, 2013, 11:48:56 AM
There is a translation of part of this letter extract in John T. Alexander’s biography ‘Catherine the Great’, in which the meaning of the last sentences are a bit clearer:

“If one goes for a walk, it’s twenty versts; if one dances, it’s twenty quadrilles, as many minuets, not counting the allemandes; to avoid heat in one’s rooms, they are not heated at all; if somebody rubs their face with ice, then the whole body becomes the face: in short, moderation in everything is very far from our household.  Apprehending evildoers, we do not trust the whole world and listen to neither good nor bad advice; in a word, up till now there has been neither consideration, nor prudence, nor shrewdness in anything, and God knows what will come of it, since one listens to nobody and wants to do everything in one’s own way.  Just imagine, after more than a year and a half one still speaks not a word of the language: we wish for someone to teach us, but we do not give an hour a day to it; everything is trifles; we cannot bear the one nor the other; we are in debt for twice what we have, and yet we have as much as anyone in Europe”.

The last part about the debts of the Grand Duchess is pretty hypocritical of Catherine, since she herself was severely in debt before she seized the throne.
Title: Re: Natalia Alekseevna, 1st wife of Emperor Pavel I
Post by: Dru on November 12, 2018, 10:48:52 AM
http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/180041880375 (http://adini-nikolaevna.tumblr.com/image/180041880375)

Natalia Alexeievna by Huin.