Alexander Palace Forum

Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty => Imperial Claimants Post Here => Topic started by: bonedaddy on July 10, 2007, 05:09:48 PM

Title: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: bonedaddy on July 10, 2007, 05:09:48 PM
I thought it was going to be a neat thing to join a disscusion board about russian revolution and the royal family. I new the topic of Anna Anderson Manahan would be discussed and hoped it would since i was friends with both jack and anna manahan. I grew up in the small town of scottsville 20 miles south of charlottesville va. Where there beloved fair veiw farm was. Many of times id give Jack a ride back and forth to the farm to feed his dogs. Jacks father and my father where friends also. John manahan was the dean for the university of virginia.  Well anyway as i was saying i thought it would be fun to join and discuss the topic occasionally but it seems by what i have read by the administraion here. They  have a low oppinion and tolerance to the subject and if thats the the case there is no need to discuss the fact that these were fine kind hearted folks, That truely believed that anna was the grand duchess. Dna or not, i still do as well.                    MATTHEW THACKER
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 10, 2007, 05:23:20 PM
You still believe AA was AN despite DNA evidence? No disrespect intended but I think you need a shrink.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: tatianolishka_ on July 10, 2007, 05:33:41 PM
*shrugs* Everyone has their own beliefs, I guess. Let's not judge people by them. Personally, I believe AA was not AN and the DNA was correct.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Arleen on July 10, 2007, 06:49:43 PM
Matthew, you have read the essence of the forum most correctly....about AA and AN.  Discussions have gotten really vicious at times.  I stay out of it because I really don't like the hate mail......but I read all of the discussions.

Anyway be that as it may, welcome to the forum! 

I personally would like to know more about Anna and Jack Manahan.  The real people.  There are some people here on the forum who believe as you do and some Dr. Botkin relatives who are very nice.......stick around Matthew!

Arleen
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: bonedaddy on July 10, 2007, 06:56:22 PM
well eddieboy, as with some of the threads ive seen on here, with people calling themselves czars and grand duchesses, id say i was right at home if i need a shrink for believing that AA was GDAN. it goes to show that everyone has an oppinion and can be anyone they want to be if they put a royal tag in front of there name. and everyone can be as eccentric as jack and anna manahan.   after all i grew up knowing these people to be slightly oddball but very sweet and kind people that loved animals. they had plenty of money but you wouldnt know it looking at there clothes and the way they lived. also they werent stuck on themselves for being wealthy as many are. they treated everyone equally. if you needed something jack would be the first to offer assistance. i do believe in science and i do believe dna is a wonderful tool for solving mysteries of genetics, but it is not 100% infallible science. i do not 100% believe that anna was the polish factory worker they claim she was. she knew way to much information to have been this woman and she looked nothing like the only known photos of this woman. anna on the other hand looks more like the photos of GDAN to me.  she did speak several languages fluently. i know she could read russian as i saw her do that myself.  i recognized a book title was in russian she was reading one time when i drove jack home. although i never heard her speak russian i did hear her speak german and french and another language the i could not recognize. im not familiar with all the slavic languages. i didnt converse with her as much as with jack because she was difficult to understand at times and really didnt like to have people around for long. she was more comfortable being alone with jack. she dipped snuff most of the time which was also a habit that was very comon among the well to do in her era.  jack pushed the issue of her being the grand duchess more than she did while i knew them. she was happy being left alone about it. if you had known these people as i did , maybe you would have had a different oppinion of them as well.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: bonedaddy on July 10, 2007, 07:18:37 PM
thank you arlen for your welcome and your warning. pleasure to meet you. i dont want to be a inflame the members with my beliefs. i just wanted to come here and share my knowledge of jack and anna.  what i believe is just that. thanks again, matthew
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Arleen on July 10, 2007, 07:49:07 PM
Matthew, in the News Links section there is an interesting article on Jack Manahan.  At least I enjoyed it.

Arleen
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: bonedaddy on July 10, 2007, 08:43:31 PM
hey arlene, if its the article from the newspaper, the hook. i have a copy of it here. we get that paper for free in this area and im going to try to get some more copys to have in case others want one.   my father is 98 years old and has known the manahan family since he was a boy, im also going to try to get some more good info about jacks family from him. my father was the longest in office mayor of a town in virginia. he was mayor of scottsville for 30 years. he came to scottsville in 1912 in a horse and cart. his brother just passed away at 104 years old. they owned the funeral home in scottsville for 60 years. hence my nickname, bonedaddy, as im the on the board of directors for the scottsville cemetary association. back to jack, i believe i still have a christmas card from jack and anna that they sent me, ill see if i can find it and scan it. if im not mistaken it was a very unusual one.   cheers, boney
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on July 10, 2007, 08:53:32 PM
You seem to misunderstand our position.  I don't think anything ill of Jack or Anna Manahan. They may well have been lovely people. I never met them. On the other hand, the DNA evidence is 100% conclusive that Anna Manahan could not have been Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicholaievna.  You are most welcome to share your first hand knowledge of these people, the story is germane to the subject. If you have some concrete evidence to support an assertion that the mtDNA was wrong, please do speak up
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: bonedaddy on July 10, 2007, 10:13:41 PM
 i did not come on this site to sway anyones opinion of the dna test. it is your choice to believe it or not to. just as it is mine to beleive the way i do about it.  i just stated that i didnt believe the test, which doesnt mean im nuts, and it also doesnt mean i wanted to start an argument about it.  i just came here to discuss jack and anna as i knew them and maybe take up for them a little since they have been portrayed so badly by so many. you would do the same for your hometown folks wouldnt you?  it is implied by some here that you need professional help for believing anything other than the dna results.  know im begining to see how jack and anna felt . and why anna didnt want people around her.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Holly on July 11, 2007, 12:12:41 AM
The majority of people here who are active at the claimant boards have very strong opinions and will fight to the death for them. The fact is that Anna Anderson was proven scientifically by experts not to be Anastasia Nicholaievna. Keep in mind that most people find it tiring and annoying when people come here discussing over and over the same old stories despite the evidence that she wasn't the Grand Duchess. People won't be nice. That's just how it is. Sure, they may have been kind individuals but that doesn't change the fact that she pretended to be a seventeen year old girl who was murdered. That's not too nice in my opinion.  :P
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: bonedaddy on July 11, 2007, 01:14:43 AM
you know what, i was right to think i didnt belong here, because i dont. what happened to people having an oppinion of there own. as before i came here to give you people a different veiw of jack and anna manahan, through the eyes of someone who knew them.  i did not come here to argue about the dna or if she was or wasnt the grand duchess. if you dont want to discuss it fine, lets change the name of this part of the forum to something other than imperial claiments. i know, we can change it too "beleive what we do or go away". hows that sound. if this is the way you treat newcomers it sure is pathetic. i thought any info you guys got on the story would be of interest to you, but i guess its not. so goodby         bonedaddy >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Holly on July 11, 2007, 02:17:29 AM
I just told you they would be like that... This is a history forum. People debate and argue. I'm sure there are people interested in the couple. But considering what Anna did, people aren't always going to say nice things about her.
"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen."
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Eddie_uk on July 11, 2007, 03:52:43 AM
Well said. as usual Holly dear.  :)

Bonedaddy, AA did a terribble and disrespectful thing. If you don't like the way AA has been portrayed then spare a thought for those that dislike what grief AA caused to the surviving Romanovs! And the rest. :)
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on July 11, 2007, 09:28:54 AM
i did not come on this site to sway anyones opinion of the dna test. it is your choice to believe it or not to. just as it is mine to beleive the way i do about it.  i just stated that i didnt believe the test, which doesnt mean im nuts, and it also doesnt mean i wanted to start an argument about it.  i just came here to discuss jack and anna as i knew them and maybe take up for them a little since they have been portrayed so badly by so many. you would do the same for your hometown folks wouldnt you?  it is implied by some here that you need professional help for believing anything other than the dna results.  know im begining to see how jack and anna felt . and why anna didnt want people around her.

Not "believing" the DNA test does not make you "nuts". It makes you someone who simply does not UNDERSTAND the science of the test. One doesn't need professional help, one simply needs to LEARN the science behind the test, and the nature of the circumstances.  The problem is not that people are being mean, so much as they and I, are FRUSTRATED by those who just dismiss the science of the tests with a mere "I don't believe them" without offering any genuine supportive evidence as to WHY the mtDNA test should NOT be belived.  It's much like saying "I don't believe the Earth is a sphere" without offering proof as to why the Earth is flat, not round.

You don't belong here because YOU want to impose your views on others (not "share them" as you claim) but do not want to be intellectually challenged about those views.  This is indeed a place for challenging factual claims.  If you want to be able to "share" thoughts without anyone offering up evidence or proof to the contrary, head on over to Blogger.com, LOTS of fiction over there offered up without evidence or challenge.

You are indeed more than welcome here to share your experiences of the Manahans.  I suspect if you stay away from the DNA stuff, noboby will give you a problem, and I for one would make sure they were respectful of you if you did.

I think you need to check your own attitude before accusing others, frankly.

FA
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Valmont on July 11, 2007, 09:39:18 AM
FA, I was just writting a post about Bonedaddy's attitude toward this subject. I just couldn't have said it better....

Arturo Vega-Llausás
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: dmitri on July 12, 2007, 07:34:02 AM
Yes I am afraid I agree. These rather unusual supporters of the totally discredited Anna Anderson are extremely bizarre and obsessed to say the least. The one thing they have in common is a total ignorance about the real Grand Duchess Anastasia and a complete unwillingness to read any contrary information about Anna Anderson that proves she was a fraud.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Holly on July 12, 2007, 12:00:52 PM
Well said Dmitri. That's exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on July 12, 2007, 01:05:23 PM
I don't think we need to necessarily be harsh, and paint all supporters of AA with the same brush.  I would not call the now departed gentleman "bonedaddy" either bizarre or obsessed.

The problem is really one of ignorance of the science involved in the mtDNA testing.  I won't rehash the long discussion again here, its been done to death on other threads. But, suffice it to say, the only way to "not believe" the results are
1.  The sample was not from Anna Manahan.  However, records at MJH and the chain of custody are pretty clear. Certainly the Schweitzers were happy in the knowledge that the sample was hers. That's good enough for me.
2.  The sample was somehow switched in some bizarre, complicated and virtually impossible scheme and conspiracy.

Thats it. The DNA was not "ancient"  in the scientific term, nor was it degraded.  It was a well preserved stable pathology sample from a well respected teaching hospital.  Four different labs got the exact same sequence result from different bits of the original sample, this rules out contamination of any one tested sample by mis handling of those performing the testing.

NOTHING in the years since changes the validity of the original sample for one reason:  Any newer test that tests for MORE sequence points as may be done today could only reveal MORE mismatches than the original five.  There will NEVER be fewer mismatches than five. And remember, just ONE mismatch is an automatic exclusion from maternal relationship.

The science doesn't lie. It is not flawed. There was no grand conspiracy.  Anna Manahan was of no maternal relationship to Alexandra Feodorovna, Queen Victoria or Alice of Hesse-Darmstadt.

This fundamental ignorance by many in the "Anna Manahan was GD Anastasia" is really more the point.  What I don't understand is why "they" are so unwilling to just produce the evidence to support their claims. 

I STILL stand by my original offer that anyone who can produce a paper from a peer review journal, written by a scientist trained in the field of forensic dna analysis which shows why the original testing by Gill, Melton, et al, is no longer reliable, I will publish said paper myself here in the Alexander Palace Time Machine  website and will modify my position on the subject.

For three years now, I have yet to be provided with any such paper.  Yet, for three years, I am castigated, ridiculed, defamed, libeled and plain called names (such as by good Mr. "bonedaddy" because I stand by the science, and only ask that people stand behind their claims that the mtDNA testing "is not to be believed" by offering genuine proof.


oh, and NOBODY in Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicholaievna's family EVER dipped snuff. That "fad" had died out 80 years before she was born. They chain smoked instead...

Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: lori_c on July 12, 2007, 01:15:25 PM
Well, I hope "bonedaddy" will reconsider sharing his experiences with the couple. Disregarding anything to do with GD Anastasia of course, it would be interesting to know how the Manahans lived from somebody who actually knew them. I would like to know just for my own curiosity about their eccentricities, and how they lived and how they were percieved in the community they lived in.  That's all I would like to hear about, if only for the sake of the topic originally meant to be discussed NOT about DNA arguments or anything else.  Just about them as people. 
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Alixz on July 13, 2007, 05:47:14 AM
I am not sure, but I think there is another poster who has said that he lived near or in the town where Jack and Anna lived and that he had on occasion seen them walking together in town.

Actually, I am surprised that more people who lived in that Virginia town and knew or were at least acquainted with the Manahans have not come forward to post what they knew from first hand experience.

I, too, was looking forward to the reminiscences of bonedaddy, but as he began to write, I began to have some doubts as to his claims as to who he could be and how old he was and that none of what he said in red sounded like it came from a man who's father is 98 years old.  Even accepting the fact that bonedaddy could have been born last in a long chain of children, would he be younger than say 60?

Did those ravings in red sound like they came from a mature man of at least 60 years old?  Hmmmm   ???

This is just my humble opinion and if I am wrong, of course, I apologize.  But I just found all of this too confusing.  :-\
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Valmont on July 13, 2007, 09:57:31 AM
Well, just look at the tittle..Right out of a Drama Queen's Diary. If you do not want drama you just don't say it..My opinion is Bonnedaddy did not have anything to share, he was playing a role and had made up his mind to leave at the first chance with a big scene... Drama... drama... drama...
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Alixz on July 13, 2007, 10:30:00 PM
Another question to bonedaddy might be, "If you are not sure you want to be here, then why come in like a hurricane?"  And what kind of a thread title is that anyway?   ???

Perhaps "My family knew Jack and Anna Manahan and I want to share my memories of them"  would have been less pugilistic.   :-\
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: NAOTMAA Fan on July 14, 2007, 12:00:26 AM
Dear God, why are all supporters of AA so pathological?? Honestly, creditable and well trained forensic scientists and resources stated she wasn't AN. This reminds me of NOVA's Anastasia documentary when the Botkins found out AA wasn't AA. "Unbeleivable! That is juuust outta this world!" ........Well believe it.  :P
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Annie on July 15, 2007, 10:24:39 AM
Matthew, in the News Links section there is an interesting article on Jack Manahan.  At least I enjoyed it.

Arleen

I'd say he's already read it  ;) and that's where he got most of his info for his latest act. Sorry I didn't see this before he was banned, I'd have had fun questioning him about the little town of Scottsville. I know it well and I could have caught him in errors and that would have been hilarious! I guess he'll stop at nothing to keep pretending to be someone else and keep trying to find new ways to get everyone to reconsider that awful DNA evidence ::)
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: lori_c on July 27, 2007, 12:06:35 PM
I am not sure, but I think there is another poster who has said that he lived near or in the town where Jack and Anna lived and that he had on occasion seen them walking together in town.

Actually, I am surprised that more people who lived in that Virginia town and knew or were at least acquainted with the Manahans have not come forward to post what they knew from first hand experience.

I, too, was looking forward to the reminiscences of bonedaddy, but as he began to write, I began to have some doubts as to his claims as to who he could be and how old he was and that none of what he said in red sounded like it came from a man who's father is 98 years old.  Even accepting the fact that bonedaddy could have been born last in a long chain of children, would he be younger than say 60?

Did those ravings in red sound like they came from a mature man of at least 60 years old?  Hmmmm   ???

This is just my humble opinion and if I am wrong, of course, I apologize.  But I just found all of this too confusing.  :-\

I was a bit confused as well.  I did read that Jack Manahan was the town eccentric but that that he was considered harmless.  I would have loved to have heard first hand about the escapades of the couple.  Just out of curiousity.  (Disregarding any AN connection of course and no DNA discussion).  Just any anectdoted, etc.. about how they were perceived by somebody firsthand.  It's a shame that as another poster pointed out, they just came "in like a hurricane" and began raving.  I wish that individual could have stuck to the topic they themselves started in the first place.  Oh well.........
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: susana on July 11, 2010, 12:19:08 AM
Wow, the thread was called 'new member not sure he wants to be here' which appeared accurate. I'd love to hear more about the Manahans and have read recently that 30% of the tests run on AA's DNA have been proven ineffective. Who really knows what might change as other new advances are made in the field?
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on July 11, 2010, 11:53:01 AM
Wow, the thread was called 'new member not sure he wants to be here' which appeared accurate. I'd love to hear more about the Manahans and have read recently that 30% of the tests run on AA's DNA have been proven ineffective. Who really knows what might change as other new advances are made in the field?

I must insist you actually cite where exactly you "read" this, as that statement is in fact INCORRECT.  Having spoken with several of the people at different labs who actually did that testing, I have been assured that the tests are effective, accurate and conclusive 100%
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: pastpalacelife on July 11, 2010, 02:43:17 PM
I didn't realize we could type in red.  Although Anna has been proven a fake , didn't she have some things related to the royal family, maybe given to her by sympathic members of the imperial family , like photos or whatever.  Which leads me to, what did happen to her personal property?  That might be interesting to know?
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Robert_Hall on July 11, 2010, 02:55:34 PM
Greg King or Peter Kurth might know that., PPLife. ASAIK, it has not been discussed here. But I do not  usually pay attention to AA or her  supporters and their silly theories.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Greg_King on July 11, 2010, 09:12:49 PM
Jack kept all of her things until his death in 1990. After that, Jack's second wife Althea kept some things, threw some out, and sold others, so that everything collected was dispersed.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: JonC on July 13, 2010, 09:40:24 PM


I STILL stand by my original offer that anyone who can produce a paper from a peer review journal, written by a scientist trained in the field of forensic dna analysis which shows why the original testing by Gill, Melton, et al, is no longer reliable, I will publish said paper myself here in the Alexander Palace Time Machine  website and will modify my position on the subject.


Dear FA.

I'm not questioning the validity of any test you mention here. I'm not interested in AA or her history. I would like for you to clarify for me exactly who Gill and Melton tested here in the point you are making. Was it AA or the Imperial Family? I take it to be the Family. If so, I wasn't aware that Dr.Terry Melton was one of the original scientists invited to do the testing on the first bone examinations of the IF. In fact, I don't remember her ever mentioning, in my conversations with her, that she had ever said that she had actually worked on the samples. I am not, by this questioning of your statement, trying to prove you wrong or right about your statement, I simply want to know for myself if in fact she actually did work on the original samples with Gill, the DOD, and Maples, etc. Thanks, JonC.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on July 13, 2010, 10:03:44 PM


I STILL stand by my original offer that anyone who can produce a paper from a peer review journal, written by a scientist trained in the field of forensic dna analysis which shows why the original testing by Gill, Melton, et al, is no longer reliable, I will publish said paper myself here in the Alexander Palace Time Machine  website and will modify my position on the subject.


Dear FA.

I'm not questioning the validity of any test you mention here. I'm not interested in AA or her history. I would like for you to clarify for me exactly who Gill and Melton tested here in the point you are making. Was it AA or the Imperial Family? I take it to be the Family. If so, I wasn't aware that Dr.Terry Melton was one of the original scientists invited to do the testing on the first bone examinations of the IF. In fact, I don't remember her ever mentioning, in my conversations with her, that she had ever said that she had actually worked on the samples. I am not, by this questioning of your statement, trying to prove you wrong or right about your statement, I simply want to know for myself if in fact she actually did work on the original samples with Gill, the DOD, and Maples, etc. Thanks, JonC.

Dr. Melton tested the same samples that Dr Glll tested, the DOD (Air Force Forensic Lab) and Maples, as far I understand.  I do know for certain that her work was indeed on the original samples along with Dr. Gill back in 1994.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: JonC on July 14, 2010, 12:12:41 PM
Thanks FA, for your reply.

When she did the samples for us she promised impartiality - now I realize she should not have undertaken her analysis of our samples because of her obvious conflict of interest. Thanks, JonC.


Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on July 14, 2010, 12:51:58 PM
That is a ludicrous and frankly defamatory about Dr. Melton.  Scientific results are not based on the perceived bias of the person doing the tests.  The results are what they are. Most particularly with DNA. Either the sample matches or it doesn't. There is nothing Dr. Melton could have done to influence the results one way or the other PRIOR to seeing the results. If you don't understand this point, you clearly don't understand the basic science of DNA.  The only thing your statement could imply is that Dr. Melton deliberately faked test results, which is a serious claim and one which can easily result in a Libel/Slander lawsuit against you.  Should Dr. Melton pursue this action, understand clearly that I will provide her freely with all information about your post and your membership here.

I strongly urge you to withdraw that comment.

Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Greg_King on July 15, 2010, 12:32:02 AM
I don't know what the point is here regarding the DNA tests (I can guess), but to clarify: Melton and Stoneking tested ONLY the AA hair samples. They did not test any of the Koptyaki remains as far as I am aware from researching this and speaking to Dr. Melton.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: JonC on July 18, 2010, 09:50:06 PM
Obviously, FA, I'm sorry, but you have completely over reacted to my comment. I guess its because it wasn't complete - my fault. My reaction had nothing to do with the validity of the results. Her results on my samples were perfect. I have always maintained that the results released by the Gill team were correct for the samples they were given. My comment concerned an agreement she and I had which has nothing to do with you or anyone else on this site. I was referring to that agreement in my comment of which of course you had no idea of - my fault for my poorly worded comment.

In any event I would not have made that comment as per Greg King's info that Dr. Melton analyzed only the AA samples and NOT those of the Koptyaki forest as you stated. Thanks Mr. King for answering my initial question. JonC..   
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: JonC on July 20, 2010, 12:05:05 AM
Incidently, FA, your unnecessary elevated level of perverted hysteria shouldn't surprise anyone who has tried to participate an innocent comment on this website. I couldn't care less what you do with my so-called ' membership ' if an innocent comment can incur such a hysterical tirade. JonC.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: susana on July 20, 2010, 01:33:31 AM
Dear Forum Administrator,
I'm wracking my brain to remember where I read the 30% inaccurate rate. I swear I think I read it on here--but it was a lengthy report on DNA testing and I'll try to rediscover it--I know it was online. I recall the bias as improvements and advances in the last few years have created some former tests as outdated now.

One thing I have noticed on this and other forums is that new members often come on strong and offend older members, perhaps without meaning to, but in an effort to 'belong' and be accepted. I felt badly for the 'new member'--maybe he only wanted to be heard and have his contribution recognized--we could certainly do that. I found it a little offensive that you felt the need to 'insist' that I provide sources. 'Would you mind providing sources' would have been more inviting and considerate. It would be nice if there were a reminder for all of us to be gentle--after all we're all fascinated by the same topics.

Sincerely,
Susana
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: susana on July 21, 2010, 01:12:42 PM
Forum Administrator and all,
Finally I located the source of my assertion that 30% of the older DNA tests from the '90's are already outdated; its on Peter Kurth's website and I actually got it backwards. A reported 60%+ - of the older tests have been outdated by new more miniscule measures and tests. Science continues to march forward. 
Sincerely,
Susana
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: susana on July 21, 2010, 01:48:11 PM
One more post: remarks about the flat earth society, being crazy etc are really not to my mind appropriate to this forum. I'm one of the many members who believe/hope/see substantial physical indicators that similarities between AA and AN are great. For Prince Andrei who was on the first Russian trip with me I would like to remind him and many of you that if you have no belief in the survival of Anastasia then you have no concern that the IF family is leaving a member behind. As far as I recall only one aunt expressed angst over the matter after her own denial--who else anguished?

For those of us who nurture the thought that she is who others said she was I paraphrase imperfectly:
                                     'There are stranger things in heaven and earth than can be seen or known by humans.'

Again thanks for your time and if bonedaddy shows up again I'd love to hear everything he knows about the Manahans--its interesting to me that some see AA's as a perpetrator and others as a victim--definitely a survivor. Food for thought.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Olga Bernice on September 17, 2011, 10:13:19 PM
I'll make one thing clear right now - I know nothing about DNA or any of the science. I still have much research to do on that particular topic, but I'm getting there. If I say anything condradictory to what really happened, don't hesitate to correct me - I'm still learning.

I do not think that Anna Anderson was Anastasia. This is my humble belief. Of course, they were nice people, I'm sure, but I do not believe that she had anything to do with the Romanov family. But may I ask a question - has it ever been found out just how she knew all the languages she did, and all the facts she did? (According to bonedaddy, at least.) And even if her knowledge wasn't that shocking, certainly she would have had something that made some of the IF believe her? Or is it just one of those speculated-but-never-proven things? (Again, please don't hesitate to correct me.)

Again, I'm sure the real Manahans were nice people - as Holly said, it wasn't nice to masquerade as a seventeen-year-old girl, but everybody has flaws (if, of course that can be considered a "flaw" . . . well, everybody lies, too). Anybody who knew the Manahans in person - it would be very interesting to hear from you and please don't hesitate to respond. As long as, as the FA said, you don't try to question the DNA evidence without concrete proof, it would be extremely wonderful for you to get involved with this dicussion!
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Forum Admin on September 18, 2011, 10:32:02 AM
If one reads Greg King and Penny Wilson's recent book "Resurrection of the Romanovs" the answers to all your questions are to be found.  For example, Russian language tutors were hired to help her "recover" her "lost" language skills, many questions were of the "remember when we were at x and did y" variety, where the answer was already in the question, as well as the books and magazines to which FS had access...Much hype was made of what she allegedly "knew" but, the truth is that she absorbed all the information over time. The authors have been able to research and document it all. She was an intelligent fraud.
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Kitt on September 18, 2011, 01:50:16 PM
No matter what one's beliefs are about AA and the dna evidence, I think that the real story at this point in history is the one Greg King and Penny Wilson wrote.  In a way, AA was truly an amazing woman.  When you think of the amount of time, spanning a world war and after, and all the people involved, her actions amounted to an extraordinary feat.  It did snow ball on her.until there was no way out of the deception.  By the end I wonder if AA didn't just really believe in it all herself.  I also, would like to hear anecdotes about the Manahans from other local folks who were aquainted with the couple.
All the best, Kitt


"If one reads Greg King and Penny Wilson's recent book "Resurrection of the Romanovs" the answers to all your questions are to be found.  For example, Russian language tutors were hired to help her "recover" her "lost" language skills, many questions were of the "remember when we were at x and did y" variety, where the answer was already in the question, as well as the books and magazines to which FS had access...Much hype was made of what she allegedly "knew" but, the truth is that she absorbed all the information over time. The authors have been able to research and document it all. She was an intelligent fraud."
Title: Re: new member not sure he wants to be here.
Post by: Olga Bernice on September 18, 2011, 07:45:55 PM
Thank you very much for your replies, Fa and Kitt. I will definitely be looking at Resurrection of the Romanovs. Thanks again!

Olga Bernice