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Messages - jackie3

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Who do you think is elligible for the French throne? Why is Don Luis Alfonso and his family not elligble for the Spanish throne?


Because his grandfather, Don Jaimie renounced his rights and the rights of his descendants to the Spanish throne.  But still being the senior male-line Bourbon he allowed himself to be considered a contender for the French throne by Legitimists who didn't like the line of Orleans.

If Luis-Alfonso should die without having a son, the senior male line descendant of Hugh Capet will be King Juan Carlos and then Prince Felipe and since neither is interested in the non-existent French throne, the Orleanists will have the Bourbon claims to themselves (the Bonapartes being another matter).

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The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: CHARLES EDWARD STUART
« on: September 23, 2005, 02:17:07 PM »
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On the other side is the much more baroque memorial to Maria Clementina Sobieska, Charles' mother.
The inscription is dedicated (optimistically) to the Queen of Great Britain, Ireland, and France!



I believe Maria Clementina is one of only 3 laywomen to be buried in the Vatican - the other two being Queen Christina of Sweden and the Countess Matilda of Canossa, the stalwart defender of Pope Gregory VII in his battles with the Holy Roman Emperor. That's pretty good company.

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Having Fun! / Re: Most Historically Important Royal
« on: September 17, 2005, 04:47:30 PM »
Kaiser Wilhem II. His ambitions for Germany indirectly led to both the scourges of the 20th Century, Nazism and Communism as well as the fall of most of the dynasties of Europe.

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The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: Best Looking Stuarts
« on: September 17, 2005, 04:37:07 PM »
Bonnie Prince Charlie good looking as a young man before he turned to alchohol and hedonism.

I've always thought that Charles II was the most imposing of the Stuarts. He really looked like a king even more so than his father or brother.


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Btw, 'd'Orleans voted for the death of Louis XVI, not the XIV. He went to the guillotine himself  eventually.


Oops. I got my V's and I's in the wrong order. As for Egalite, I once skimmed through the memoirs of his son King Louis Phillipe and although he was very retiecent about it was obvious the action (voting for the death of the King - especially he had promised to the last minute to either abstain or not be present) caused HIS family a lot of pain, L-P tried to talk his father out of it and he and his family (the Orleans branch) have paid the price of being tied to Egalite ever since.

Personally I think Phillipe d'Orleans like a lot of the more extreme revolutionists who followed him got their just desserts. Once they went down the rode of cutting people's heads off and putting on show trials (in the case of Marie Antionette) then it was just a matter of time before it caught up to them.


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There is ofcourse always the chance he once will be elected President de la Republique,and subsequently announce the re-creation of the French Empire,it was done before after all,wasn't it.......again take a deep breath,there,see,I knew you would feel much better now........


Ah, yes, now that you mention it I seem to recall Napoleon I and Napoleon III both calling themselves true "Republicans" as well...and we know how that turned out.

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I assume we're talking about:
1. Henri D'Orleans, Count of Paris (descended from King Louis Phillipe, King of the French), the House of Orleans are descendants of Louis XIII, I suppose the Count of Paris is regarded by most French as the rightful Pretender to the non-existent throne.

2. Luis Alfonso de Borbon (or in France Louis Alphonse), Duke of Anjou, descended from Louis XIV (through his grandson Phillip V of Spain), cousin of King Juan Carlos of Spain, the grandson of Don Jamie, the son of King Alfonso of Spain, who was a deaf-mute and abdicated his rights in favor of his brother Don Juan (father of Juan Carlos). Luis Alfonso is also the grandson of General Franco and he just recently got married.
Since Don Jamie and his descendants were no longer elgible for the Spanish throne and because Luis Alfonso is the senior male-line descendant of Hugh Capet, Legitimists view him as the Pretender rather than the desendants of the regicide Phillip Egalite d'Orleans (who voted for the execution of his cousin, Louis XIV)

3. Prince Napoleon, descendant of one of the brothers of Napoleon I, I don't know if there is any serious Bonapartists these days though.

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French Royals / Re: Saintly French royals
« on: August 22, 2005, 06:52:57 PM »
 Especially in the early days of Christianity in a country where the ruler and their family played a big part.

Off the top of my head:
England:
St. Edward the Confessor
St. Margaret of Scotland (granddaughter of Edmund Ironside and wife of Malcolm III of Scotland, it's through her the present Royal Family traces its descent to Alfred the Great)
Blessed Margaret Plantagent Pole - daughter of the Duke of Clarence, niece of Edward IV and Richard III, grandaughter of the Kingmaker Earl of Warwick and sister of the Earl of Warwick who died in the tower, beheaded at age 70 under her kinsman Henry VIII because of her religion, nanny to Mary I Tudor, mother of Cardinal Reginald Pole, Archbishop of Canterbury under Mary I, one step away from sainthood


Hungary:
St. King Stephen I - First "Apostolic King" of Hungary
St. King Ladislaus I - Son of King Bela I
St. Margaret of Hungary - Dominican nun, daughter of King Bela IV
St. Elizabeth of Hungary - daughter of King Andrew II, wife of Landgrave Ludwig IV of Thuringia, ancestoress of the House of Hesse

Bohemia:
St. Wenceslaus - Duke of Bohemia, basis for the song Christmans "Good King Wenceslaus"
St. Agnes of Bohemia - daughter of Ottokar I, founded first Poor Clare (Francisican) convent in her country

France:
St. King Louis IX
St. Jeanne of Valois -daughter of Louis XI and wife of Louis XII (it was annulled), had a hunchback and was deformed, started a religious order(sometimes called Joan of France and so confused with Joan of Arc)
Blessed Isabelle of France - sister of St. Louis IX, founded a convent but was too frail to become a nun herself, one step away from sainthood
St. Louis of Toulouse - son of Charles II of Naples, a member of the (originally) French royal line of Anjou, cousin of Louis IX and Elizabeth of Hungary, was named Bishop of Toulouse in France but died at age 23
St. Jadwiga, Queen of Poland (in her own right) - distant member of the French Anjou family, founded Jagiellonian University, married Ladislaus of Lithuania (founder of the Jagiellon Dynasty), who brought Christianity to Lithuania, died in childbirth

I'm sure there are lots of more that I can't think of right now.

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The system he used meant that he took the same photograph 3 times, once with a red plate, once with a blue plate and once with a yellow plate.  When these were put together you got a colour photograph.


He was waaay ahead of his time then. This was the same 3-color system Technicolor patented and made famous in the movies starting in the 1930s (although Technicolor had developed a 2-color system in the 1920s which was used in the original Ben-Hur). Ironically the Soviet/Russian film studios did all their work in black and white even into Stalin's age mainly because they could not AFFORD color like Hollywood. The Soviets only used color after WWII mainly because they stole the color film process that the Germans had perfected (which had a name which I forget) which unlike Technicolor did not use the three different film/color process but one strip of film. I say stole because the Germans had patented it before the war but the Soviets took the method with them when they took Berlin in the fall of the Nazis, without payment. The German system became Sovcolor in the Soviet Union, Eastman Color in the US, and FujiColor in Japan and is the basis of all motion picture film stock today because it is cheaper to make, to film, to develop than Technicolor (what had to use a giant camera so they could film the same scene with three different strips of film).

Ironically now all these years later it turns out the films using Eastman Color (from Hollywood starting in the 50s) are fading and in need of constant restoration. While the Technicolor three-plate/film process shows little sign of fading (just look at the crispness Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind). This could explain partly why Prokudin-Gorskii's pictures with their saturated 3-color style still look so vibrant 100+ years later.

Back to topic - I think we discussed Prokudin-Gorskii's color pictures of the IF of the family in a previous thread. How wonderful it would be if they still exist somewhere.

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The Imperial Family / Re: Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna
« on: July 28, 2005, 11:17:45 PM »
I think it was in The Romanovs: The Final Chapter by Robert Massie that Massie writes that like her father before her (Vladimir) even those who don't agree with her claims to the throne (presumably the other Romanovs, because by the House Laws the claim is indeed hers) find GD Maria a very likable person herself.

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The Imperial Family / Re: Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna
« on: July 27, 2005, 06:00:58 PM »
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I could not open the wedding picture, and that is just what I have been looking for !


I think it doesn't allow for outside linking. Copy and paste the link, instead of clicking it,  and it should work. It did for me.

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Well I think it ironic that for a branch of the family that suffered so much and lost so many members of the family to murder both in WWI, the Civil War and killed by the Communists that is one of their members who is the last surviving Romanov born before the Revolution (Princess Ekaterina) and who has lived to see the Communists fall and the two-headed Imperial Eagle and the flag of Peter the Great return as symbols of the Russian state. Somehow its fitting that it would a  Konstantovichi who would survive to be the last.

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The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: CHARLES EDWARD STUART
« on: July 24, 2005, 08:19:05 PM »
The Jacobite Heritage :http://www.jacobite.ca/
has quite a bit on the Bonnie Prince. Its a shame really, after the '45 it really went downhill for him. Unlike his father James Edward, no foreign courts (not even the papal one) recognized his right to Britain and unlike his brother the Cardinal (who was a prince by his clerical title and could be addressed as such by even supporters of the Hanoverians), outside of his small circle he was only addressed as the "Chevalier St. George" or the "Count of Albany". He married late and he and his wife hated each other. He was nursed at the end by his illegitimate daughter, Charlotte. The high point of his life was at age 25, he was much more of a romantic figure than any of the stodgy Hanoverians and I really believe that if he had kept to Scotland and re-grouped instead of marching into England he might have had a chance. But then like Jane Austen, I've always been partial to the Stuarts - despite their faults.

PS The Skye Boat Song is one of my favorites. Its such a beautiful tune.

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The Tudors / Re: Isabella of Valois
« on: July 19, 2005, 08:36:22 PM »
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i think she had a good time in england, though. i think richard took good care of her and i'm almost convinced that her age was one of the reasons he married her... he probably didn't want to consummate his marriage...


I think you're right, ilyala. We know that some in England were disappointed that Richard and Anne hadn't produced an heir in their years of marriage so they were probably urging him to re-marry and secure the throne soon after Anne died. By marrying someone so young (and French, which was very good politically) he wouldn't have to consumate the marriage for years and thus could deal with his grief (which has we know he never really got the chance to do since he was deposed and killed).

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The Greek Royal Family / Re: King Otto and Queen Amelia of Greece
« on: July 19, 2005, 08:30:34 PM »
That's a very striking portrait of the Queen, Marc. Do you know the artist?

You have to wonder about the Wittlesbachs, some of their 19th Century members seemed to be dreamers or kooks (depending on how you looked at it) and yet today in the 21st century, the family is somber, down-to-earth, dependable and respected all over.

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The Tudors / Re: Tudor Queens
« on: July 17, 2005, 06:30:54 PM »
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If you want to blame someone, blame Henry.


Oh I do. I know he has his defenders but I personally think he was a monster and a tyrant both personally and professionally who squandered both the capital both monetary and respect-wise that his father, Henry VII,  had built. I wonder what would have happened had Arthur lived and Henry remained nothing more than a younger son.

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I've never thought of Mary as evil, just disturbed. As for Elizabeth, she was clever and shrewd, but (like Charles II) would have done just about anything to protect her throne. I also think that Jane would have become a despot if given the chance. Not to mention Edward. Had he lived to 18, he would have mass murdered Catholics, and become Henry in another guise. No doubt about it. I've never really like him or Jane (though I pity her a littl). They always come across as so private-school-priggish.


I don't think Mary was disturbed just damaged. I think Elizabeth Longford said it right in her "Oxford Book of Royal Anecdotes" that in a more gentle age, Mary would have made an admirable Mother Superior of a convent. She was instinctually kind as a child and young adult, I think a lot of the things she did went against her better nature (for instance she wanted to spare her cousin Jane Grey) but in the end she thought she must be her father's daughter and should be as hard re-established Catholicism as her father was in rooting it out. I do think Elizabeth was damaged too but I think she had the stronger personality, so while I can respect her I can't find myself pitying her as I do Mary or Jane.

As for Edward VI,  I agree wholeheartily with you, if people think Mary was a fanatic I don't think that would have been anything to what he would have done had he reached majority. The bonfires and gallows would have been full. The reason he favored Jane Grey as his heir (and possible bride had he lived longer) was because she was so in tune with his intense hatred of Catholicism which mirrored Mary's the other way around. Elizabeth was cannier than both.

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