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Messages - Kransnoeselo

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1
Great job AGRBEar! It would never have occurred to me that the estate would still be up and running. Bravo!

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I personally thought that there was evidence of that dragon tattoo on his arm.  That does not mean that I believe that Anna Anderson was Anastasia, it just means that their might have been a tattoo and that someone told her about it as she was given so much other information that made her seem to be "well informed" on things that only she should know.

Thank you Alixz for finding that post. I too knew it was somewhere but could not track it down.  

Yes, The Tsar did have a tattoo, that he had gotten while in Japan. It was large and colorful on his right arm.  

 Felix Dassel a Russian officer who had been wounded in WWI and stayed in GD Marie and Anastasia's hospital in Tsarskoe Selo, had made mention that the Tsar had a tattoo,upon hearing this Anna Anderson adamantly denied its existence. In several of the pro-Anderson biographies it was assumed incorrectly that the Tsar had no tattoo and therefore Anderson was right.  Yet not only was she wrong, the real Anastasia would have not only have seen the tattoo but couldn't have forgotten it due to it's size.

And here is a photo of the Tsar with his arm exposed showing the tattoo and Anastasia standing immediately behind him.

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/tattoo4.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k136/tsarskoe/tattoo3.jpg

Compare to the Dragon in the previous post. It is faint and blurry but the outline is the same.

3
Quote
It also says 'H.I.H.' on it

Well, that should be removed.  This woman was never royality.

True or not, I think that one should be able to have whatever they want on their own tombstone.  That being said, I have to publicly commend Greg and Penny for the incredible amount of time and research they put into this work.  Thanks to their insights readers (for the first time) can see a very different side of Anna Anderson, a much more human and realistic portrayal.  I greatly appreciate their grace when dealing with her. She was a very complex individual who many people loved, even if she drove them to madness with her finicky, erratic and irritating ways. They treat her, accurately, as a wounded and mentally fragile person who struggled to escape a horrible past and to create a new life for herself.  This is the definitive book on Anderson and I applaud them for am amazing work.

4
Hello RealAnastasia,

It is I, Tim Welsh and yes I used to have a website dedicated to my belief that Anna Anderson was Anastasia.  I held onto this belief for many years following the initial DNA evidence, due to several unresolved issues relating to Anna's claims that I had not felt were adequately addressed by the genetic tests. It took me many years for me to find enough counter information to her claim for me to finally believe that she was with certainty not Anastasia.  Even once I concluded that she was not Anastasia I still doubted that she was  Franziska due to a lot of information supplied by Harriet von Keilmann-Rathlef and other authors.  Yet the more information that came out, especially when I reread the fact that Anna and her brother Felix had been allowed to talk privately for several moments during their first meeting out of earshot- after which Felix changed his story and said that Anna was not his sister. Secondly when I saw photos of Franziska's relatives- I knew she was Franziska (somewhere on the Myth threat I previously posted photos comparing Anna with her sisters and brother-to me they were definitive-especially the identical full lips.)

Your list of reasons to doubt Anna's claims are impressive.  One of those reasons you mentioned (along with another listed below) that ultimately led me to disbelieve Anna's claim regarded Sidney Gibbes and Anna's statement that he was lame and deformed (which he certainly was not).  The real Anastasia would never have made such a mistake.  

The other anecdote which led to my disbelief was a discovery I made when reading an entry on this discussion board about Nicholas II's tattoo. It stated that Nicholas had a large dragon tattoo on his arm.  After reading this and seeing some photographs people had posted and looking at other photos of Nicholas I knew that this tattoo which I had never heard of before (he had gotten it in Japan while still Tsarevich) once and for all proved Anna's fraud. She had been insistent that her "papa" had never had a tattoo and was adamant about it when pressed.  Not only had the real Anastasia seen the tattoo (there are pictures of Anastasia with her Father who has his shirt sleeve rolled up exposing the tattoo) but there was no way of her forgetting it due to its size and bright colors.

There are of course many other mistakes that Anna made (regarding to inaccurate accounts of the Alexander palace, etc etc) but the two I already mentioned are the most striking to me and they cannot be explained away.
 
I was fortunate to be one of many asked by Greg and Penny to read  early manuscripts of their most recent book on Anna Anderson. I was (and still am) so impressed with the level of their research which in my opinion has ultimately resolved this mystery which began nearly 100 years ago. For me there are no remaining issues with her identity.


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It is from my understanding that the Schanzkowski family was Roman Catholic, and while they were Kashubian (They in fact did speak some Polish).  In fact the Schanzkowski family many generations prior to Franziska and her siblings had been minor Polish nobility (apparently many families had been bestowed this title due to allegiance to the ruler at that time).

 Interestingly the soldiers who supposedly "rescued" AA by the name of Tschaikowsky were also supposedly Polish as well as Roman Catholic, and even more interestingly AA mentioned that she had been told by her rescuers that their family had been Polish nobility many years prior.

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Found this posted on the Royal Forums:

RIA Novosti - Russia - Urals remains belong to last tsar's children - DNA test

Interfax-Religion

- news

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Nicholas II / Re: Personal Attributes of Nicholas II
« on: June 12, 2008, 11:04:49 AM »
It had been mentioned in this thread that Anna Anderson had stated that her "Father" (Nicholas II) has tatoos on his arm, and that this was used as a piece of evidence in her favor. 

In fact AA insisted that the Tsar had NO tatoos on his arms.  When asked how she knew she replied that she had seen her father's arms when he rowed his family in row boats and that there were no tatoos.  So in fact if there had been a tatoo (Which is now pretty apparent) this would be yet another mark against AA's claim.

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Anastasia Nicholaievna / Re: Anastasias regiment
« on: May 21, 2008, 04:28:48 PM »
I recall Anastasia's regiment being referred to as the "Blue Regiment" I suppose this may have been their coat or sash color.

Tim

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On another discussion forum an author of a biography on Anna Anderson made a statement regarding this study.  I have not read or heard about it elsewhere.

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Another comparrison of Anna Anderson's lips (Left) and Felix Schanzkowska's daughter Waultrad



11
Here are some photographs which I compiled of AA and the Schanzkowski family

Below is Left: Gertrude Schanzkowska Franziska's sister who recognized AA (Gleb Botkin himself admited to a resemblence between the two of them) and Right: Anna Anderson



Below Left and Right Anna Anderson. Center: Gertrude Schanzkowska



Below Left and Right: Anna Anderson. Center Maria-Juliana Schanzkowska who the Schanzkowski family said Franziska most resembled.  When Franziska's former teacher and his wife were shown a photograph of Anna Anderson they stated that it didn't look like Franziska but like Maria-Juliana.  Also note that both AA and Maria-Juliana have the same hairstyle- with the exception that they parted their hair on opposite sides.
 

Below Left and Right: Anna Anderson. Center: Karl Maucher (Franziska's great-nephew)


 Below: (Top) Anastasia's handwriting.  (Center) Franziska's handwriting (Bottom) Anna Anderson's handwriting. Notice how the way Anastasia's
"s" differs from how both Franziska and Anna wrote their "s" and how similar both the "s" and the "k" are between Franziska and Anna.


Below: From Left to Right: Anna Anderson, Waltraud (Felix Schanzkowski's daughter), Anna Anderson and Felix Schanzkowski.

And enlargement of the series above. Note the remarkable resemblance between their mouths.


Below: From Left to Right: Anna Anderson, Tatiana Nikolaivena Romanova (Anastasia's sister), Maria-Juliana Schanzkowska (Franziska's sister), Anna Anderson. At first glance one can see some similarity between AA and Tatiana, but then when one looks at the photograph of Maira-Juliana one can see the ways AA differs from Tatiana and how much she resembles Maria-Juliana (Franziska's sister).

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The contradictory nature of many of AA's statements and the endless rationale used to explain her mistakes eventually get rather ridiculous. From reading early accounts one can see how her "story" morphed over the years.  Especially early on she spoke little and let others teach her all she needed to learn to adopt the Anastasia persona.   I do believe that she was injured in the accident whereby she killed her foreman at the Berlin munitions factory which caused her to suffer from head trauma and possible brain damage.  Certainly as a result AA/Franziska did suffer from some form of mental illness.  Many of her supporters deny any form of mental problem other than depression and ptsd ("Wouldn't you be depressed if everyone killed your family?" They ask)  But her symptoms were much greater and severe than simple depression.  AA was paranoid was constantly afraid that people were poisoning her or her friends.  She either lied or was delusional when telling stories of meeting Hitler, or her account that Felix Yussuppov tried to kill her during his visit with her in the 1920's, or when she continuously stated in later years that there had been doubles of the Imperial family and they were the ones killed, etc etc. 

AA was in numerous sanitorium through out her life.  First after being rescued from a suicide attempt and again when she was forced from Annie Jennings home in New York after several tirades (At least on one occassion storming around naked on a balcony).  Her mood was decidedly unstable and did not seem dictated by events but rather by unpredictable swings. She herself admitted this to Gleb Botkin by saying she had a "devil" within her and she assured him that she would "quarrel" with him, and she was right.

I am looking forward to hearing the DNA results from the remains most recently found in the forest surrounding Ekaterinburg. The results will have little bearing on my conclusion that AA was indeed Franziska but I do believe it will help me gain some closure on this issue which has haunted me since 1988.

 

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Annie,

With regards to your question about my no longer supporting AA's claim to be Anastasia, I must say that it was a long and slow process for me to come to terms with the fact that she was not who she claimed and was infact Franziska Schanzkowska.  There are a few things which did eventually aid in turning the tide.  One of the things which always bothered me was Franziska's "favorite" brother Felix Schanzkowski's initial visit with AA.  Upon first laying eyes on AA he declared that she was his "sister".  Later within the visit he changed his mind.  Personally I think that at a glance (even after several years) I would have recognized my own sister-even if she had lost a lot of weight.  It was only when I read John Kleir's book within the past few years that I learned according to one witness who was present at the meeting between AA and Felix-that it was only after the two were left alone to talk that Felix changed his mind.  This combined with Felix's daughter's statements that her father told her that he knew all along that AA was his sister and a letter from one of his nieces who wrote to him that it wasn't everyday someone's sister is confused for royalty.  Also Franziska's sister who has lived with Franziska for a time in Berlin and thus was one of the last of the Schanzkowsi's to see Franziska, recognized AA as Franziska and demanded that AA recognize her.  She was outraged at AA's ambivalence after all she had done for her.  In a letter from a lawyer (who was opposing AA's court case in Germany) to Gertrude he stated that Gertrude was not the only sibling to recognize AA as Franziska, but the others had been fearful to admit it. It now seems very apparent to me that the Schanzkowski family knew all along of Franziska's identity and simply decided to stay out of the matter.

All of this plus the DNA tests from both the tissue sample from the Martha Jefferson hospital and the hair- matching each other and the blood sample from Karl Maucher all seemed too much for me to deny.  As well as the vehement denials of AA's identity from her tutor's Pierre Gilliard and Sydney Gibbes, Baroness Bux., Olga Alexandrovna, Princess Irene, etc. all of whom knew the real Anastasia exceedingly well and much better than Felix Dassel, Grand Duke Andreii or Princess Xenia Leeds of Russia (Leaving only the Botkins, and Lili Dehn. I believe the Botkins truly believed her to be Anastasia.  Lili Dehn's daughter apparently declared her mother was not as certain about AA's identity as was reported at the time of her visit.) 

Apparently Scotland Yard did a study of AA's and Anastasia's handwriting within the past ten years or so which concluded that the samples were not writen by the same hand. (It has been suggested that there were not as many samples as was used by Minna Becker during AA's trail.  Yet apparently Scotland Yard thought the samples sufficient enough to make an accurate comparison.)

The often cited study by Moritz Furtmayr used a photograph of Maria (rather than Anastasia) when comparring it with photographs of AA's right ear. He also mistakenly believed that AA's original "mug" shot had been reversed and thus the photograph did not depict her right ear but her left (Apparently to explain why her right ear did not match the right ear of Anastasia)  Yet if you look at the mug shot and look at how her hair is parted you can tell that it is not a mirror image since she always parted her hair in the same manner in the early 1920's.  Also when comparing that photograph of Anna's ear with others one can see that it is in fact her right ear and not her left.  Apparently the reason the ear did not match is simply because it is  not the same ear. cntd...

 

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And here is the passage
[It is necessary to grant special interest to the declarations that the patient gave to Ms. Peuthert and that she recorded in a letter that is addressed to Princess of Prussia, August 23, 1922. (Princess Irene of Prussia, sister of the Empress of Russia)

   I wrote in February to the Grand Duke Hesse-Darmstadt that there resides in Dalldorf asylum a young lady who says she is the Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicolaiievna Romanov.

   As I often saw this young lady in photographs during her in her youth, and during a stay which I did in Russia, I promised to get her out of this place where she is living (utterly) abandoned.

   She related to me, that at the time of the assassination of the Imperial family, she received injuries to her hand and behind her ear, then was knocked to the floor, upon which she fainted.  A mere soldier, named Tschaiikovski, took her and hid her.  HIs mother and his sister cared for her.  But when it was noticed that a corpse was missing a search was undertaken to find the soldier; the family who was taking care of Anastasia was in danger and fled to Bucharest.   As this young lady was alone in the world and the name Romanov could endanger her, Anastasia, then seventeen years old, married the soldier whose family formerly belonged to Polish nobility.  Anastasia gave birth to a son that carried the name of Alexis.  They lived in Bucharest for a certain period of time, I think about two years, then the family's hideout was discovered; Anastasia's husband was injured by a bullet which struck his lungs; he was brought back seriously injured to the house, where he died, due to the continuous blood loss he suffered.

   As a living relative of Anastasia on her mother's side, as sister of the Tsarina, you will understand and forgive that Anastasia, abandoned by all, was not able to have a marriage of her own blood.  This is the biggest concern of the unfortunate one to know how you will accept this thing, especially her Grand Mother.   This onoe seems besides to be her enemy and wants to take advantage of the assassination of the emperor to govern.  This is the reason why Anastasia does not want to emphasize her rights as the Grand Duchess although she is.  It is necessary to act with a lot of prudence.  I pray you come see this lady.  I photographed her last week; though they cannot be very useful, since the young lady is at the moment very sick.  She was transported from the Dalldorf asylum to the house of Baron Kleist, who mixed this matter with his own goals and interests and wants to be her only advisor.  This is the reason why the lady left this family under a ruse in order to quietly reflect on what she should do.

   When Your Highness was this be visiting at Potsdam, the baron did not allow that the young lady to speak to you.  I insistently ask that you come to see her at once; only you can prove the truth.  Currently, this lady is with a good family, but it is not necessary that the Baron know it.  I will reveal you then where she is located.

   The young lady does not want one to say that she is the Grand Duchess, or Mrs Tschaiikovsi, for when those who followed her discovered the hideout of her family to Bucharest, she had to flee again.   She tried to loose their track leaving first to Paris where she knows a Baron Taube.  From Paris, she came to Berlin.  She was scarcely there for eight days when someone recognized her.  One evening,   "dans une automobile, on l'a endormie, on lui a enlev ses vtements pour lui en mettre d'autres, et on l'a jete, toujours endormie," in a lake by the zoo.  When she was drug out, it was believed that she had tried to commit suicide, and was driven to the Elisabeth hospital.  As she is not known in Warsaw under the name Tschaiikovski, she was transferred to the Dalldorf asylum.  It is absurd to believe that this lady, who fled Bucharest in the middle of so many difficulties to save her life, wanted to commit suicide here, in Berlin.  Only a madman would concede that.  This lady has a firm will to live, (as shown by the fact that) she has already spent three years without her son.

   I ask therefore that you take this matter seriously and to examine (to see) if all of this is true.  The current situation cannot go on much longer, since more than six months have passed without anyone being concerned for this lady.

She lives like a poor creature!  With the highest consideration, (Signed) Marie-Clara Peuthert
]

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Here is a passage about a letter Clara Peuthert had written to Princess Irene with regards to Anna. I had never read elsewhere that Clara claimed Anna told her that after being rescued in Ekaterinburg she travelled to Romania then to Paris and then to Berlin.  One naturally asks why she would say she went to Paris (which one would have to go through Germany (or Italy) to get to Paris  from Romania? Pierre Gilliard believed that Anna had gotten the idea from an Illustrated Berlin newspaper which claimed that Anastasia had escaped and was said to be in Paris.  Thus if we believe what Clara wrote to Princess Irene Anna apparently adopted this story only to discard it (like much of these early stories) later. Note that within this passage are a few sentences which I could not accurately translate.  From my best estimation Clara writes that Anna told her that while in Berlin she was in a automobile with people in order to change into some other clothes so as not to be recognized only to be thrown out of the car and into the Landwher canal where she ended up being rescued by the police.  I have included the orginal French within the text. Perhaps someone more experienced with the language could assist in an accurate translation.

 


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