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Messages - Annie

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1
Annie, think long and hard about EVEN considering to take Sarushka to task. You would completely lose whatever respect you have left on the board.

Louise

I don't care. NOBODY is going to misrepresent something I said and did. See, the thing about me, I don't give a flying damn how many books somebody writes, or how much money they have, i judge people by one standard only- are you an a-hole or are you a nice and honorable person. You twist something I said, ignored our friendly exchanges and try to say I only did it because was coerced into apology when it never happened, you are not a nice person, and I do not respect you. There was no reason for her to jump on the bandwagon with inaccurate information just to add fuel to the fire.

I never realized there are so many terrible people here, and how much I don't enjoy their company. I'd rather hang with the banned 'reds', they're much more decent people than some of the characters in this thread.

I tell you what, had this happened on Royal forums, many many posts would be deleted, and several of us-me, Simon, Tsarfan and Sarushka- all would have been given private warnings and a public warning against personal messes would be posted. It would never have been carried into six or seven threads because the third time all participants would have been banned. That is fair moderating. Junk belongs on Jerry Springer, not a history forum.

2

I have no problem admitting that you apologized promptly after I forwarded the message to FA.

Oh, I never knew that! No one ever told me. I apologized and tried to explain on my own. I do NOT apologize to people I don't feel I owe one to, and I wouldn't do it.

Actually I admire Michael G, even though I can't stand him, because he wasn't two faced. When he was told to apologize to me, he didn't, and he ended up banned. But give credit to him for not saying what he didn't mean. I am NOT a lair. I do not say things I don't mean. I'd never give a coerced apology to anyone for any reason.

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The fact remains that you willfully and repeatedly overrode my wishes regarding this thread, then attacked me behind the scenes for requesting a return to topic.

It's not all my fault this thread went OT in the first place, and this time, honestly, I didn't even notice who had started the thread currently being used as the all purpose thread. There have been so many. So no need to feel put upon. There's really no need for you to join the bashing now.


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I for one hereby regard this thread as hopeless -- on ALL topics -- and I will not be replying again. Really. But this time I'll take care to save my PMs...

I have them, so don't try to act like there's something in there that didn't happen. If you'll remember the last one I sent you was when I found the Helen Keller pic and told you about it. You already had it, but I did think of you.

3

 After all, it was YOU who brought up Alexandrov and the missing head.

Uh what does that have to do with anything? That's a valid topic, the harassment is not.

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As for FOTR, who makes you judge and  jury of someone's work?

Why not me when so many others have expressed views? That is what everyone forgets- this was NOT my fight, I joined it very late.

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   So why drag it on in some personal vendetta?

Like Simon and Tsarfan are doing me? In EVERY damn thread? Regardless of how or what anyone thinks of me, this is WRONG and nobody else on any forum would put up with it. The issue is not who is right or who did what, the point is, it's OT, disruptive and makes the entire forum look bad. And sorry, that doesn't mean just me.
 
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It is you and other nameless ad nauseum posters who drag the AA  story on, keeping up the fuss.

Wow at least I didn't get blamed alone this time!

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Your neurotic paranoia is not amusing, it is downright annoying now. No one is persecuting you, you set yourself up for ridicule.

Yeah, yeah, being told this by you and FA is like living in a nightmare bad psychological thriller. But one thing you forget is, other people can see this. I have been contacted by several people in private emails, and you'd be surprised at who some of them were because they weren't all people I'd consider friends (though I do now) Also, other people have been chased around the forum hounded and harassed by Simon and Tsarfan and have taken breaks from the forum because of them. There really is quite an underground discussion about them, and  jokes about the possible reasons they have come to behave the way they do and why they feel the need to appoint themselves resident autorities on all from this to gas to anything else. They are overbearing, abrasive, self righteous, know-it-alls(not) who obviously have no life and nothing better to do than hang around here and make people miserable and get a cheap thrill. It's actually very sick. If they're as rich as they claim to be, why aren't they out enjoying all that money and traveling the world? Only losers sit in front of computers all day finding a victim to drag behind their virtual truck. And anyone over 14 who finds entertainment in such things is a very disturbed individual indeed.

4
Sarushka started this thread to discuss those passions, not any one argument pro or con about specific survivor claims.  Despite her pleas, even by the end of page 1 of this thread, she had had to call you down three  times about this.  You made yourself the de facto  Exhibit Number 1 for the case of unreasoning, visceral passion about an ultimately inconsequential matter, historically speaking.

Indeed. And my reward for doing so was a PM from Annie belittling me as a "nitpicker" and a "nag," among other remarks -- the sort of thing that would unquestionably have been called a "personal attack" had it been posted in public. In light of that first-hand experience, perhaps you'll understand why I too have very little sympathy for Annie's claims of persecution and complaints about off-topic posts rooted in personal hangups.

Wow, thank you! Did you bother to tell them that we also talked very nicely in private and came to understand each other? Of course not, it's more fun to join the bashing. All I told you was that ALL AA threads are going to go the same way, and there's no need to even complain about it. (always ending up in a 'was she wasn't she what about the shoes' battle)

5
I think you mean google groups? Yes, it's true, some of the most vicious arguments took place back then. It was before many of us even heard of FOTR...


Exactly, Helen. Here's an example

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.talk.royalty/browse_thread/thread/6543efea315d1fb2/d765277a8734c25b?q=greg+king&lnk=nl&

And yes, this was way before you or I ever heard of the book! Interesting, though, much of what is said in the old fights still rings true today, and some of it is exactly what some have said later, though we never saw the old fight first. I guess that just shows there really is something to it all, where there's smoke,there's fire! This discussion is very old and predates me by years, this is why I really resent being used as some sort of scapegoat who caused it all in a revisionist history plot by those who think by destroying my credibility they can destroy the entire issue. Not true.

6
Anyway, who cares if Chatnoir and Peter Kurth are the same person or not? So what if he is? It just means that he is basically saying the same things under another name. That won't make these things true, the same way they are not true when he says them under his own name.

That's true, it doesn't make a bit of difference like, say, if AA is FS!

I really, really can't believe yet ANOTHER thread has been taken over and ruined by Simon and Tsarfan's smear campaign against me personally, or that any mod would allow it to continue. Regardless of who is involved or what the fight is about, it is a bad thing for the forum. It's actually become a joke! If it's not going to be stopped, at the very least it could be contained in ONE thread to spare all the others the mess. I asked a long time ago to start a 'what I have against Annie' thread in discussion forum and leave the academic stuff to real topics, please. Somebody has to have the sense and decency to stop this.

7


Four.



No, I've seen arguments dating back to the summer of '02, when it was just being written. Already, the controversy raged. I didn't even find the online Romanov community until '04.

8


 the post is not for you, but for those who might be at all tempted to take you seriously.


This is exactly what you are doing, and it shows. But don't you realize that when you and your tweedle dum follow me to EVERY thread finding fault with EVERYTHING I post, it only looks like the smear campaign it is? What are you so afraid of? I must have some vital info you don't want revealed, so therefore you have to discredit me at every turn. What happens to the guy in the movie who knows too much? He gets rubbed out. What's the next best thing to do if you can't destroy someone physically? Go on a smear campaign to destroy their credibility by attacking their mentality, intelligence, sanity, etc., ha ha ha don't listen to ol' Annie, etc., just in case random lurker #457 shows up and might believe me. So again, what are you afraid of, and why does it make you so obsessed? 

The most ironic and even laughable thing about all this is, you are doing this so nobody will believe what I say about FOTR, which is pointless, because I'm not even the one who found and broadcast the errors, I only repeated what has been said online by others for at least the last six years! It's even more ironic because it's 'errors' in the book that caused all this! You don't want anyone to pay me any mind so they won't believe there's any problems with it. So, is it okay if Penny puts out inaccurate information, not on a message board, but in a book for sale, yet Annie must be policed at every single turn on a message board, even over silly, trivial things? Can anyone see how ridiculous that is? Obviously, you're not the stickler for accuracy you claim to be, or you wouldn't go to such great lengths to protect a book that has inaccuracies. If you think by completely destroying me to the online community the realities about the book are going to disappear, you are wrong. They were here before I got here and will remain after. Your crusade against me is personal, and it only makes you and your comrade there look like the totally overbearing, self righteous, abrasive, bullying bores you really are.

9
Her obsession is not pointless. It takes the place of a life.

This is the kind of unnecessary snide remark disguised as humor that is actually a personal attack no other forum in the world will tolerate.

But since it's okay on this one, I'll say, just like yours and Tsarfan's toward me? And P-, uh, Chat's toward AA?

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I am by way of being a primary witness.

and you are not among those who I trust.

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I had contact with Peter Kurth AND Chat Noir, go me, and they are not the same person.

Whoopee. So have I. And I disagree.

 I have my reasons, you have yours. I'm not going to argue.






10
Annie, get real. A check has been cashed, is that not proof enough? People have TALKED with both of them, separately.

I don't know who those people were or what was behind it, or if anyone is even telling the truth, all I know is, the character I have talked to on the internet is the same person. I sure wish Dmitri was here, because he had proof the other way, from the wikipedia forum.

At a rock concert get together among people on another site, one guy paid somebody to pose as his online alias so he wouldn't have to be embarrassed when they both said they'd be there.

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  Your obsession is pointless.

Then I guess Chat and I have something in common. Sorry, nothing anyone says can outweigh personal experiences! ;)

11
So, Annie...now that Simon has confirmed that Chat Noir and Peter Kurth are not the same individual...can we expect a mea maxima culpa from you?

Louise

No. He has not confirmed it, merely offered his personal opinion based on his personal experiences. According to my personal experiences,  it appears he is. (and others agree) Several of us have expressed an opinion on this, I don't see why his is the end-all. It's not for me.

12
Your twisted version of all those things only proves you have no idea what you're talking about. But being part of a revisionist history plot, I'm not surprised. I will not clog up YET ANOTHER THREAD with your OT and unnecessary personal accusations against me and garbage dragged third hand and inaccurate from other threads. This thread is is not 'all about Annie' this is a discussion about Anna Anderson. Therefore the only one of your absurdly twisted list I will answer is one that applies to that case.

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-  your misattribution of authorship regarding some missing head

No. First I just said I remembered reading it but didn't recall where. The next day I came back with the page numbers and sources.

You really, really need to get your facts straight, and you seriously need to get over this obsession with me, it's not healthy.

Ha ha ha, you two guys have just proven everything I keep saying that you follow me from thread to thread, dragging old stuff around and going off topic just to attack me. (not to mention misquoting, twisting words and meanings terribly) I'm sure I'm not the only person who wonders why the mods put up with such behavior. Run along, little boys! I have more important things to do.

13
Why thank you, and how boring your life would be without me. I am not staying, I just had something to say. I won't be engaging you again. I don't believe I should be banned if you aren't. I am tired of being shadowed and tormented by you, and sick of being  the musical chairs loser/hot potato holder/scapegoat in a revisionist history plot of what really transpired in the whole FOTR saga and won't let anyone use me again.

Now let's not let another thread go off track because of our own personal issues.

14


Experience tells me the two are one.

Mine as well. You, having been a victim of some of his more irrational rants, such as when you were called a 'gnat' 'cad' and 'a-hole' by him, (I've seen all those posts) are well aware that he does have that side to him, and it frequently emerges.

Just recently, on another forum, he posted under his own name, the one he signs 'PK', such a torrential rant against me and two other posters that the moderator had to delete the post and warn him.(They do not stand for such things there) In it, he made some of the same exact insulting comments recently and frequently used as "Chat" on my AA forum, such as mocking a certain girl for not being able to speak English. His behavior has not been the most subtle, having had issues with moderators on not only the royal forum but also alt.talk and wikipedia. Dmitri, who used to post here, was active on wiki and said he and the moderators there were completely convinced Chat=Kurth. He said Kurth was banned and returned immediately as "Chat" using exactly the same rhetoric. He used to frequently contact me in private and I'd notice the same day he was posting the same things almost exactly on KW forum under his real name. Personally, IMO, after having spoken to him in literally hundreds of posts and PMs, there is absolutely no doubt that they are one in the same. When he first came to this forum, I was told by no less than six different people it was him, and while I didn't know for sure at the time, he jnever did a thing to disprove them.

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and unless he is a "Jekyll & Hyde"

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As entertaining as Peter Kurth can be, I have a hard time imagining him creating an entirely unnecessary alter ego merely to tease those who do not share his beliefs about Anderson.

I suppose theoretically, the purpose of the alias would be to use it for the type of behavior and certain things to say that you wouldn't want to use you own name for. This is extremely common, after being on many message boards for seven years now and modding several, I can't possibly explain just how very, very common it is for people to have more than one identity, some several. It's also not unusual for these people to invent entire alternate lives for themselves and post you a picture of 'them' to say 'look I'm not him' and in fact those who are quickest to do this are usually the most guilty of being an alias. Remember how Caleb invented many characters, including the thirtysomething housewife whose child loved Bob the builder, the San Francisco lesbian, and the 60 year old farmer who used to help Jack Manahan feed his dogs. A person doesn't even have to be insane to maintain their alter ego by fake emails, bounced IPs, and yes even conversations under these identities. This happens on message boards and myspace all the time. Whatever made them feel the need to do it makes them know they have to keep playing the game. Then, like AA, once they start, they have to keep it up because it's far too humiliating to get caught. So, that is just the internet in general, but I do think Kurth would indeed make a false name where he could be more free to express him more aggressive or oddball views and not tarnish his real name. However, sadly, it appears in some places he has also already done that as well. Also remember his outburst on the plane that landed him in hot water last year proves he does indeed have a temper. And after all, who else would have such strong feelings about the AA subject to take it so far?

My personal opinion is that they are one in the same, and those who say otherwise are either naive as to just how far a person will go to protect a false identity (speaking of AA), or they haven't spoken to him/them at such great length and in such depth as some of us have, or they are kindly attempting to protect his reputation.


PS- I see the lurker now and I totally expect to be jumped on by the usual suspects, however, I have stated my personal experience and views as others have. I do realize there are some who are going to fly in immediately to attack whatever I say, and it's so obvious it's become hilarious. As PK once said, flame way, gnat!

15
The Final Chapter / Re: The Yurovsky Note
« on: July 31, 2008, 06:34:30 PM »
N&A pg 30.
"Nicholas responded <to Alix's glances at 16 year old Tsarevich Nicholas> and one day presented her with a small brooch.  Overwhelmed, she accepted, but then shyly pressed it back into his hand during the excitement of a childrens' party.  Nicholas was offended and gave the brooch to his sister Xenia, who, not knowing its history, accepted it cheerfully."  No mention of its "fate" nor even that Xenia gave it back to Alix later.

Annie, nobody is calling you a liar.  The problem is that you assert "Massie says X in Nicholas and Alexandra", the problem is that Massis didn't SAY so in Nicholas and Alexandra. If you don't know, then just say "gee think I remember reading X somewhere..."

It's a thick book, it might still be in there somewhere.

No problem, Annie.

Radzinsky, again. Pg. 23 "He (Nicholas), asked his mother for a diamond brooch, which he gave to Alix....The next day, while dancing with him at a children's ball in the Anichhkov Palace, she stabbed the brooch into his hand...Nicholas gave the brooch to his sister Xenia. Only to take the brooch back ten years later. This brooch would know a terrible fate."

Dang, I know I have read this in more than one place.

Louise

Got it. It is Radzinsky. pg. 39. "he gave her a ruby ring and that brooch--the brooch he had given her at the children's ball long ago...and the brooch was always  with her..

On their 21st anniversary...April 8th, 1915. tenderly do my prayers and grateful thoughts full of very deepest love linger around you on this dear anniversary!...And shall wear yr. dear brooch."

"April 8, 1916...That dear brooch will be worn today."

A twelve carat diamond would be found in the filthy campfire where their clothing was burned that morning of July 17, 1918. The remains of the brooch. Iwas with her until the end."

Annie, the major trouble these days is that there are so many books on the Romanov's. It is tough to remember where you have read them. I use this excuse to rationalize the age thing...:-)



Thanks for taking the time and  trying to help. I do feel my posts are under much more scrutiny than anyone else's, and it's become so annoying it takes all the fun out of coming here. I feel like I'm living and reliving my least favorite Brady Bunch episode, the one where the parents keep holding Greg to 'those were your exact words' until his whole life is ruined.

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Annie, the major trouble these days is that there are so many books on the Romanov's. It is tough to remember where you have read them. I use this excuse to rationalize the age thing...:-)

Very true Halen. In my case I've been reading them for 34 years, some are out of print and junked from libraries I no longer go to, and I've long since forgotten what was in each one. Unlike most of you I do not have the means to seek out and keep an extensive collection of my own. I've only actually owned a handful of books and since my last move can't find most of them. If everyone's going to expect a page number every single time I post, forget it, I'm outa here. I can't do it.

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(FA)I can't imagine that Empress Marie would give Nicholas a 12 carat diamond to give to a 16 year old girl he was flirting with

And if we're getting picky, Alix was a 12 year old girl, not 16.

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