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Topics - AGRBear

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46
Imperial Russian History / The Russian Soul
« on: November 08, 2004, 03:20:47 PM »
I remember my grandfather talking about how fatalism had devoured the soul of the Russian peasant.  

Here is just one of the sayings of the Russian peasant:  

            "God is too high  and the Tsar is too far away."

AGRBear

47
Imperial Russian History / Russian Bourgeoisie
« on: October 29, 2004, 05:41:46 PM »
Every once in a while,  there is mentioned on the threads about the life in Imperial Russia being either aristocractic or peasant.  There hasn't been any mentioned about the rising upper middle class  known as the Russian Bourgeoisie.

"With the collapse of the Soviet system, the long-neglected history of the early capitalists is being recovered and rewritten.  Once regarded as the 'losers' in the Russian Revolution, these merchants can now be seen as early pioneers in the Russian's tranformation to a free market ecomony."

This is written onf the book jacket of a very good book titled MERCHANT/MOSCOW, Images of Russia's Vanished Bourgeoise by James L. West and Iurii A. Petrov.

There are marvelous photographs and chapters about business pracices, department stores, daily life in the work place and at home.

For those of you interested in th Old Believers there is a section about them which you will find quite interesting.

Learning about this class may give us a better understanding why their section in historical  Russian timeline is called "the Silver Age".

So,  who were these people who climbed into this upper middle class position in Russia?

AGRBear






48
The Myth and Legends of Survivors / Re: So who WAS she, then?
« on: October 26, 2004, 04:05:10 PM »
If not Anastasia or Franziska Schanzkowska, then who was Anna Anderson?  How about this theory? Could Mrs. Unknown [FU] been a very well informed revolutionary who ended up liking the good life and enjoyed the game of being whom her new rich and royal friends wanted her to be, and, too,  she probably believed she should have been born a Grand Duchess, and, in old age,   her mind allowed her to be who she wasn't?

AGRBear

PS  If not a revolutionary:  Perhaps you'd have to start with a list of who she wasn't.  I assume the DNA proves Anna Anderson wasn't a Romanov's chambermaid's [servent's] child born out of wedlock?

---------
For those of you who are reading this thread for the first time, Penny Wilson, who started this thread, started this off by saying that there might be evidence found that Anna Anderson might not have been FS.  So, if  AA wasn't FS then who was she?

Penny pulled off her post after a great deal of harasement but has since returned. Unfortunately, we can't recover her posts.
------

49
Since I haven't any idea what was left of Anastasia's inheritance, if she had lived  what would she have inherited that was kept out of the hands of the Bolsheviks?
OR
If Anna Anderson or another claimant had proven in court they were the children of Nicholas II and Alexandra,  what would they have gain in money, jewels, lands, stocks "in" or "outside" of Russia by the late 1920s?

Reason I'm asking is because,  last night  I watched  a program about the Royal Jewels of England's Queen Elisabeth and other royals and saw how much some of these jewels were worth.   Just one tiria was worth a mint which was enough for most of us to live nicely for the rest of our lives.  There was talk about some jewels having been Russian that had been inherited.

For those who have doubts about there being a conspiracy,  it seems just a couple of huge diamonds worth millions might have been a motive.

AGRBear

50
Imperial Claimants Post Here / A List - Claimant's Name/History/Fate
« on: October 12, 2004, 04:32:59 PM »
Let's gather up all the claimants into one thread.

The point of this thread is to collect all  the names of those who have claimed to have been the children of Nicholas II and Alexandra.  With each name mentioned whom he/she claimed to have been.   Such as Anna Anderson claimed she was GD Anastasia.  Because she does have her own thread,  there is no need to mention Ana Anderson anymore than this one brief sentence.  However, there were others [some claim as many a 40] who made the claim they were Anastasia.  There were others who claimed they were GD Alexie, etc.

This is not a thread to prove they were or were not the  "real" person they claimed to be.  We can have spin off threads if we find someone of great interest.

And,  I repeat, please,  do not place your opinion  "for" or "against" a particular claimant or claimants.

 THIS IS A LIST THREAD

This thread is simple.  So let me give the rules:
1. Name the claimant
2. Give what information you have which you'd like to share
3.  Name the source where you found the claimant's information
4.  If you know what happen to the claimant, please, add this, too.
5.  If you have a correction or additional information please give the post so we can easily refer back to that post.

Thanks.

My first example:

Nadezhda V. "Ivanova-Vasilyeva claimed to be GD Anastasia

Quote
This article, "The Unsolved Riddle of Princess Anastasia," appeared on today's Pravda English site:

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/90/363/13367_Nicholas.html

I'll quote the parts pertinent to this thread:

"On the morning of April 7, 1934 an emaciated young woman in shabby clothes entered the Resurrection Church on the Moscow Semyonovskoye Cemetery before service. Priest Ivan Sinaisky felt as if he had seen her before, though she did not belong to the parish. The unknown lady
was sent by hieromonk Afanasiy for confession. The priest was amazed to learn during confession that the lady was Anastasia Romanova, the daughter of the last Tsar Nicholas II. When asked about her miraculous escape from slaughter,  the stranger said: "I can"t talk about that".

"Now it is too late to identify the person who informed the NKVD on the clergyman who displayed concern for the woman"s fate. The warrant to arrest Nadezhda V. Ivanova-Vasilyeva read: "Investigation into the activities of a counter-revolutionary clerical monarchical organization has revealed that at the beginning of 1934 an unknown
woman, 30, who impersonated the daughter of the former Tsar Nicholas II - Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolayevna Romanova, resided illegally in Moscow. With an active assistance of hieromonk Afanasiy - Alexander M. Ivanshin - the above impostor obtained a false passport issued to Nadezhda V. Ivanova-Vasilyeva. The above hieromonk Afanasiy helped her raise about 1,000 roubles and sent her to a safer place, the town of Yalta, the Crimea, where she currently resides maintaining close contacts with Ivanshin. In her recent letters "Ivanova-Vasilyeva" asked Ivanshin to send her a considerable sum of money intending to go abroad. Based on the above, Nadezhda
V. "Ivanova-Vasilyeva" is subject to arrest and charges under the Criminal Code."

"She was detained in Yalta and under escort brought to Moscow. The escort guards knew that their detainee was a singular person. The woman disclosed right away that she was the monarch"s daughter and told her story. In the inquiry form Ivanova-Vasilyeva indicated foreign language teacher as "place of service and position". She declared no property of her own and refused to give information on
her father"s property. In the lines "social origin" and "family" she wrote " from the noble" and "none", respectively.

"The NKVD officer who conducted the interrogation of Nadezhda V. Ivanova-Vasilyeva wrote the transcript of interrogation:

"In November 1933, I was discharged from the Solovetsky camp. I met with Anna D. Kuznetsova in 1930, several days before my arrest. During our talk Kuznetsova told that she had been maintaining contacts with the Swedish Embassy and promised to inform it about my arrival. I wrote a letter to the English King George, the cousin of Nicholas II, and Kyrill Romanov, and asked Kuznetsova to send the letters via the Embassy.  In my letters I told that I had been behind bars all the time and was asking them to help me financially and help me leave the country. A few days later Kuznetsova told me that she had delivered my letters and an embassy employee,  a Greta Janson, wanted to see me. I was requested to come to the Khudozhestvenny Theatre at the appointed time. Accompanied by Kuznetsova, I came to the rendezvous with Janson, who invited us to her flat where she asked questions about the Romanov house. Then Janson said that princess Vyrubova was in Finland and asked me to write a letter to her, what I did. I asked her to tell the Romanovs" relatives that I was alive and asked for some money ."

"The claimant had been in touch with her "relatives" abroad until she was arrested in Yalta. Ivanova-Vasilyeva was examined by Prof. Krasnushkin, an NKVD psychiatrist. He wrote in her medical certificate: " Citizen Nadezhda V. Ivanova-Vasilyeva aged 33, .. manifests clear symptoms of panic disease in the form of paranoia expressed as systematized delusion of grandeur and persecution. As a
mentally sick person, chronic and representing a danger to society, she is subject to compulsory treatment at a civil metal hospital". The rest of her life, over 35 years, the woman spent in mental institutions.

"A forensic medical examination report made at Serbsky Mental Institute in Moscow said that the examined person in the "area of the lower third part of her both shoulder bones is covered with extensive soft scars reportedly of firearm origin." Whether the princess claimant got the scars in the cellar of the Ipatiev House, or elsewhere, was impossible to establish.

"Nadezhda V. Ivanova-Vasilyeva died in 1971 in a metal hospital on Sviyazhsk Island and was buried in a unknown grave."

I cannot attest to the accuracy of this report; the first part of the article covers the "Anna Anderson" story, and is wildly inaccurate in places.  The last third of the story is devoted to the claim of Natalya Petrovna Belikhodze, whose tale -- that she is Anastasia, and that she, Nicholas and Alexei left Ekaterinburg alive, to be followed later by other members of the family -- is quite well known through the book, "The Testament of Nicholas II" by Anatoly Gryannik.



AGRBear

51
The Russian Revolution / Truth or Fiction in Hist.Bks About Yrs 1912-38
« on: October 10, 2004, 11:47:12 AM »
Truth or Fiction written in history books about the years between 1912 to 1938.

From time to time various books are mentioned as sources.  I have noticed that some books are accepted, or, accepted in part, or not acceptable and some are refused all togather.

Since most of us are not proffessional historians who have access to the Russian archives, personal diaries, etc. etc.,  we read something and have quoted are findings on the various threads created in this forum.  If a person disagrees,  there is usually a quick flury of protesting along with a few who agree with the posting.

We do have among us  strong opinionated groups.

And, our [I am included in one this opinionated group] opinions are from   information we have gathered through the years which all of us  use in our postings, unless of course it's just a question that pops in your head and you wonder what the answer is.

It is obvious to most after reading many of the threads that there is contradictions of information and it is these contradictions which cause the most agitation.

For example:

On another thread I mentioned the "telegram" which some books claim may or may not have exsisted showing Lenin's connection to the execution of Nicholas II, his family and others.

Greg King wrote what he felt about the "telegram" and quoted his book.

On this thread, I'd like us to bring here these contradictions found in books on Russian history after the Oct. / Nov. Revolution of 1917 in Russia.

I'd appreciate no one call each other names if he/she/ they  have different opinions.

We should not be afraid of asking questions.

If remarks are made toward you personaly, bring it to the attention of a Forum Admin. and let him deal with these unacceptable remarks.  We don't want him to "lock" this thread because of a few who may try to spoil are fun.

That is what this is suppose to be, "fun",  while we learn how others feel and why.

I'm going to go over to the over thread and bring back my two postings plus Greg King's.  So bear with me until I get this thread started on the "telegram."

Mention, again, the time frame:  1912 to 1938.

The books we use as sources could have been written in 1912 to the present time.

Remember: This is about conradictions found in history books.

If there is confusion,  please let me know.  I'll be happy to cleariify my intentions meant for this thread.

AGRBear

PS  I just discovered quotes within quotes don't copy,  so,  this may take longer for me to gather to this thead.  Since my time is limited today,  I may not be able to accomplish the information on the telegram.  You can find it on the following post which doesn't belong under the thread of Ana Anderson and Anatasia.

Quote
While we wait for Kurth's interview,  I hope I can continue an earlier topic on this thread which spilled over to another thread and I was told to bring it back here.  



52
The Russian Revolution / Pros and Cons of the Oct/Nov Revolution
« on: October 03, 2004, 11:57:38 AM »
I am placing my remarks on a new thread because a few of us are interrupting over threads over this debate.

Please,  feel free to give your opinion.

I wrote:

Quote
I guess Lenin covered his tracks on the executionof Nicholas II, Michael and everyone else connected to the Romanov family.   And, no matter the logic some of us used,  it will not penatrate the minds of those who see otherwise.

However,  I'm not concern about the few of you who continue to tell us  that the credit of this execution stopped at the local level and not at the top with Lenin.  So, this isn't for you because you've made up your mind.

I am worried about the youth who are reading remarks that claim that there was  a glorious victory under those who admire those involved in   the Russian Revolution under Lenin and later Stalin.  There were other opportunities at that point in time to have taken between the months of Feb/March to Oct/Nov of 1917.  But they did not devlope due to the Bolshviks.

Emp. Nicholas II had abdicated and had given the crown to his brother GD Michael, who then turned to the new and rising govt. known as the Provisional Govt. who were interested in people's rights.  

Lenin, with his gold train supplied by the Germans who wanted Russia to go into revolution and lose interest in the fight against the Germans,  rushed to Russia and he and his friends started their "killings"....  They didn't care about the Provisional Govt which had a great start on making a new and better Russia without the kind of blood shed which was about to occur under Lenin and then Stalin.

British Blue's figures of how many died under the rule of Lenin and Stalin were low.  There were 10,000,000 [if you use the Bolshevik numbers] to 20,000,000 to 28,000,000 [if you count the numbers by those who watched all these people die] between Oct/ Nov 1917 to about 1925.

Just to take that into some kind of example as to the number of 20 to 28 million people,  the USA at this time is at war in Iraq to save their 25 million.

Why did so many people die?  The Revolutionaries were so full of hate, anger and revenge  that they killed not just the people who were in White Army uniform,  they killed anyone [men, women, children] who got in there way.

During a revolution it is usually true senseless killings occur within the first six month or a year or two but this killing did not stop in Russia under Lenin and grew even worst under Stalin.

Most of you have seen the inoscent people being held as hostages in Iraq and then hear that their heads are sawed off with swords.  This kind of senseless killing didn't happen once a week in Russia nor was it for the television audience at at that time.  This happen daily and not just with adults.

The pro-communists can tell you that the White Army had their own terrible killings.  Some of this is true.  People sometimes do things which are just as horrific as their enemies.  I think the numbers of the "murdered" runs about a few thousand at the most.  Of course,  because it's less in number will never make
murder right no matter what flag you are fighting under.

What Biritsh Blue is saying about events in Russia after Oct/Nov 1917 is what the communists would like to hide.

It's like this debate if Lenin gave the order to execute Nicholas II or it it was the Ural Soviet who had achieve this act on their own.  Since all were Bolshviks and it was their character to do this kind of killing,  it really doesn't matter who pulled the trigger.  Both Lenin and his "trusted lieutenant" Yurovsky had just one goal in mind.  That was to eliminate all the Romanovs who might rise up later and lead a revolution against the revolutionaries.   So,  it really doesn't matter if you, I, King, Wilson, or anyone else can or cannot find a single telegram or a note which gave the actual order to shoot and kill Nicholas II.

When Ana Anderson appeared and claimed she was Anastasia, a number of things occured.

(1)  The story of what occured in Ekaterinburg was brought up again and the horror of not just a Emp. of Russia but also his wife and children were killed made the headlines
(2)  Someone in Lenin's staff had to find out what happen that night how many bodies were in the grave and it was discovered that two bodies were missing  and we'll never know how people vanished or how many false documents were created or what was destroyed....
(3)  People outside of Russia were reminded of the character of the Bolsheviks who by then were calling themselves communists
(4)  A wave of new stories were being revealed  of what was actually happening in Russia under Stalin

Lenin and Stalin had men who were "trusted lieutnants" who were  professional executioners.  One of their more popular means of killing in a foreign country  [yes,  they didn't just stay in Russia] was making a death look like sucide.

Between Lenin and Stalin,  they completely ruined just about everything and placed the blame on the Romanovs.

I agree, Nicholas II made a lot of mistakes but dispite these mistakes life was changing in Russia. True, it was not fast enough for Lenin and those who were suffering poverty.

At no time,  do I claim that monarch is better than democracy.  So, when people critize this posting,  remember,  I am not claiming a monarch is better than a dictator.  I do not.  The lives of the masses depend upon  the moods of a monarch/dictator.  If you have a one person who is evil and wicked they should be set aside.  This doesn't mean "death to all the enemy".

In 1917 Nicholas II was not evil. Yes, under his watch people did die because of various events which prove he held his prejudices.  And to these people is was evil and very wrong.  Although he didn't understand  religious freedom nor demoracy he did  give in to the creation of a Duma.

Some will rise up and say that the Duma was useless and an attempt that was too late.  It was the beginning and some things don't happen over night.

But all of this became moot when the Provisional Govt. didn't have unity under a strong leader and this gave an open for Lenin who was later replaced with Stalin.

Lenin had been a socialist but Stalin,  well,  he was a man after power.  He was a cruel and vicious man.  And this cruelity and viciousness was allowed by all of his men and everyone else down to the local policeman.

Train load after train load carried men, women and children to Siberia without blankets, food and a pot to pee in.  Now, if the journey took a day, well,  that would have been one thing.  The trains took weeks to get to Siberia....  The dead men, women, children were tossed out of the cars and littered the edges of the tracks....  Dogs, cats, wolves, rats were carrying away human body parts .....

Anyone who tried to tell you that this inhumanity was good for the future of Russia is very very wrong.

Many of you have heard about Hilter and how the Nazi's were inhumane.  The Jewish population have given us a great deal of information of what really happen.  But you don't hear this about Lenin and Stalin. Why?  All the voices who rejected Lenin or Stalin  were considered "enemies of the people" and they vanished.  

The world was so busy with WWI and WWII that the terrible events occuring in Russia was not reported and those who did were eliminated or were buried in communist lies.

Am I against communism,  you bet I am.  I believe in peoples rights and love my freedom of speech here in the USA.

No government is perfect and many terrible things happen in every country as a new governemnt rises.  USA is no acception.  

This was not the place to get on my soap box, nor was it a place for those who wrote postings before me.  This is suppose to be the thread about Ana Anderson.

I believe it is possible that the Bolshviks may have created claimants which wold make it harder for any real daughter of Nicholas II, had she survived, to come forth and be believed.

I'm not sure that is the case for Ana Anderson who had jumped into a canal in front of a Berlin policeman who fished her out and because it appeared to the policeman that Ana was trying to comit sucide,  she automaticaly was taken to an asylum.  Again, British Blue is correct,  just because Ana was in an asylum doesn't mean she was crazy.

By the time Ana Anderson died,  I do think she believed she was GD Anastasia Romanov.

I remember reading about the woman who played the part of aunt Bee in the Andy Griffon tv show.  After the show was over, the town by the same name as the one in the show adopted aunt Bee.  When she became part of the world elderly people are known to find,  aunt Bee believed she was still aunt Bee.  It's sad but the mind sometimes accept the imaginary.

Anyway,  I hope everyone has a good day and be thankful that Russia has realized there is a better road to take.

AGRBear

PS Under the Russian History - Revolution we've discussed this subject and there you can find my own and those who think I am absolutely wrong debate.  We have books, pages and data over there, as well.

PSS  Forum admin. and I were writing at the same time and he pushed his post button just before I did.  I will copy this post and let's go over to the Russian History-Revolution and continue this topic.  

PSSS  Please British Blue,  do not stop your posting.  You have far more knowledge than I do and I wouldn't want it lost because a few here have bounced on you on this posting.  That goes for those of you who haven't posted and joined this debate.  




AGRBear

54
The Final Chapter / Rescuers of Romanovs
« on: August 17, 2004, 12:17:42 PM »
On page 198 of  THE FLIGHT OF THE ROMANOVS by John C. Perry and Constantine Pleshakov  tell us about the rescue of the Romanov in Yalta in March of 1918. On page 199 this is the responce of :

Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna [citizen Olga Kulikovsky]: "Olga said, "Here we were Romanovs, being saved from our own people by our arch-enemy, the Kaiser!  It seemed the ultimate degradation."

AGRBear

55
Quote
On p. 321 Summers and Mangold in their book File On The Tsar mentioned an eye witness Natalya Mutnykha, a nurse, who claimed she had seen ex-Empress Alexandra and four daughters, in Perm in the basement where Berezin's rooms were.  

And they said:  "This formal testimony, along with that of other witnesses, says categorically that all the Romanov women were held prisoner by the Bolsheviks in Perm late in the summer of 1918 and on into the autumn."

Does anyone have any new evidence that this testimony is false?

AGRBear

Quote
On p. 328 Summers and Mangold in their book File On The Tsar go on to say: "Mutnykh's testimony is vastly strengthened by the discovery that her brother, Vladimir Mutnykh, was indeed, as she claimed, secretary to the Ural Soviets."  And Vladimir was more than this, he was personal aide to Beloborodov, who was the chairman of the Ural Soviets and a man who had been a part of the events which occurred in the Ipatiev House.

AGRBear

If we had to take a case to court to prove one or all of the family of Nicholas II escaped or was a claimant, we'd have to depend on testimony of those involved.  So,  here goes.  I am starting with sister of the secretary of the Ural Soviet, Natalya Mutnykh, who claimed she had seen members of Nicholas II's family after the 16th of July 1918 in Perm, Siberia, Russia.

AGRBear


56
Imperial Russian History / Myths, Legends & Tales of Old Russia
« on: August 06, 2004, 10:20:51 PM »
All of us have our favorite myths, legends and tales from Old Russia.  This subject was started under Peasant/ Workers under Imperial Russia when the conversation turned to "double faith".

Tell us your favorite and what you think the moral of the story was, if there was one, or,  why you think it was important for the particular myth, legend or tale to be told over and over....

AGRBear  :)

57
Alexandra Feodorovna / Alexandra as Empress and Mother
« on: July 24, 2004, 11:09:45 AM »
There seems to be a large number of threads about Empress Alexandra (Alix), so,  I wasn't sure  to start a new thread or not.  The one thread titled Alexandra is in memory of her birthday with great photographs.  It  seemed to have a mood about it that I didn't want to disturb with subjects which may pop up here.  Others were about her relationship with Rasputin, her mother-in-law, and others.  So,  that is why I'm starting this thread.  This is just about her.  When she was born.  Her childhood.  Her growing-up years.  Loves.  Dislikes.  I really do not know much about her before her marriage to Nicholas.  What can you tell me so I can gain a clearer image about Alix who became Empress Alexandra of Russia.  :)

AGRBear

58
The Final Chapter / Shooters of Nich. II and Other Romanovs
« on: July 21, 2004, 06:38:47 PM »
Quote
author=Greg King: >>The shooters were: Yurovsky; Kudrin; Nikulin; Ermakov; Medvedev; Soames; Netrebin; the two Kabanov brothers; and Lacher.  Of them, Yurovsky, Kudrin, Nikulin, Ermakov, Medvedev, and Netrebin were all ethnic Great Russians; Soames and the two Kabanovs were Balts; Lacher was an Austrian, and the only foreign shooter<<


On another thread Greg King was kind enough to answer one of my questions which was about the list of shooters on the night of 16/17 July  1918 in the Ipatiev House.  I had presented the following list from Edvard Radzinsky's book, The Last Tsar, p. 341-2.  And so I had written:
"The shooters were and who was listed as their target:
1. Commandant Yakov Yurovsky - Tsaritsa
2. Peter Ermakov - Tsar
3. Nikulin - Alexei & Marie
4. Mikhail Medvedev (Kudrin) - Tsar's daughter [not named]
5. Pavel Medvedev - daughter  [not named]
6-11. Latvians from the CHEKA - finished off the others "

So,   I'm wondering,  since I'm assuming King and Wilson have the latest facts,  why were there different lists and who made up the first list and where did the information come from?

Also,  I'd like to know if any of them left memoirs or statements where we can find them in English.

Several claimed to have shot and killed Nicholas II?  Whom do we believe?

Added to this list might be: Who claimed to have shot  "Michael" his brother or tossed the bomb into the mine and left "Elisabeth", who was Nicholas II's wife's, Alexandra's, sister, to die?  Who shot his uncles.... and the other members of the Royal family?

AGRBear

Note #1:  Yurovsky's statement on 1 Feb 1934 - www.alexanderpalace.org/palace/Yurovmurder.html

Late Note #2:  I forgot about The File on the Tsar by Mangold and Summers.  If their theory is correct and the eleven hostages escaped,  then, it's possible there is a need for quite a different list.  Since, it appears only two [Alexei and one of his sisters, probably Anatasia or Marie] are missing from the grave in Pig's Meadow near the village of Koptayki, it might mean the others were recaptured and this time executed at different times and different places and by different shooters.  Then the bodies might have been collected and re-buried in Pig's Meadow.  This would explain why so many bones are missing.  So, does anyone have any information about anyone claiming to have killed Nicholas II at another place, time or person/persons?  ???

59
Land of the Firebird, The Beauty of Old Russia by Suzanne Massie has always been one of my favorites since it was published in 1980.

It is easy to dwell on the politics of Old Russia and the Fall of the Romanovs,  but this book is a treasure about the beauty of ice slides in the winter, the easter eggs in the spring and the sweet sad tunes which filled the air in a quiet distant place or the lively fun high stepping music at a wedding....  So much beauty of Old Russia, the Motherland, can be discovered if you read this book.

AGRBear

60
Research Russian Roots / Germans Who Migrated To Russia 1780-1900
« on: July 08, 2004, 09:01:37 PM »
Here are three major sites where you can discover all kinds of history about the Germans who migrated into all parts of Russia since the late 1700s.  They are:

AHSGR [American Historical Society of German Russian]:
     •        631 D Street, Lincoln, NE 68502
     •       Phone: (402) 474-3363
     •       Fax 402-474-7229
     •       E-mail ahsgr@aol.com
     •       Websites [2/25/98] is: http://www.ahsgr.org  and Searching Subjects: http://www.ahsgr.org/links.htm
     •       Book Store

----

GRHS [German Russian Historical Society]:
     •       1125 W. Turnpike Ave. Bismarck, ND 58501
     •       Phone (701) 223-6167
     •       Website  http://www.grhs.org
     •      Book Store
     •       Bessarabian Newsletter on the Bessarabia Home Page: looking for new URL
     •       List of articles published are found at [last update may 2001): looking for new URL.....


------


GRHC [German from  Russia Heritage Collection] : http://www.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/gerrus/
GRHS is connected to NDSU [North Dakota State University]
Contact : Michael M. Miller at his E-Mail :  mmmiller@badlands.nodak.edu
Michael M. Miller is connected to the NDSU


Infomration about Bessarabian Archives [Deutschen aus Bessarabien and the Landsmannschaft der Bessarabiendeutschen]  in Germany is found at:   looking for new URL

Links: http://www.lib.ndsu.nodak.edu/grhc/links/index.html
----

If you are looking for individual families and their stories go to:
http://www.odessa3.org/

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AGRBear

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