Messages

6601

Olga Nicholaievna / Re: Olga's crushes: Pavel Voronov, Dmitri Shakh-Bagov, Nikolai, N.P., AKSH, dear S, etc.

« on: June 29, 2004, 02:19:03 PM »

"Also,  was there ever any talk about whom her mother and father wanted Olga to marry?"

Yes. If I am not mistaken, the Imperial Family visited Romania (someone else, I hope, can confirm the year of this visit) as there was murmurs that Olga may marry the Crown Prince of Romania. Olga, however, was not impressed with him and her parents did not press her.

True there was a war going on and marriage of Olga was placed on the so-called  "back burner" but does anyone else out there have the same feeling as I that Alexandra wouldn't have pushed any man toward Olga or any of her daughters.... In fact, I think it highly probable, that  Alexandra may have made sure that Paul Woronoff was aware that a marriage with Olga wasn't in his future.  

Was there anyone else who caught Olga's attention?

I bet there was / is a list of possible suitors who would have been acceptable to her station in life...

AGRBear

6602

Imperial Claimants Post Here / Re: For Serious Claimants, Please

« on: June 29, 2004, 01:31:52 PM »

AGRBear,

I was under the impression that all the children (or at least the daughters) had had their heads recently shaved after recovering from the measles- so it may have been rather difficult for them to have braided their hair into a wig for Alexie...although the idea is a weirdly charming one!  :)

Its an unusual notion....

I do recall something about the measles and one of the books went into some detail about the measles for a particular reason.  Anyone out there who can remember the point in time they had the measles, if not the measles, then what and when it was which made them shave their heads?

AGRBear

6603

Imperial Claimants Post Here / Re: For Serious Claimants, Please

« on: June 29, 2004, 01:21:51 PM »

There are two of Nicholas II's children missing from the Koptyaki grave, Pig's Meadow and the Four Brothers Mine.

All might not have died on the night of 16/17 July 1918.

Maybe someone, one of the guards,  wasn't watching that night or maybe the night of the 15th and some or all escaped.  This would have left Yurovsky in a mess....  There were people who recalled trains being searched for members of the Royal Family....  Or do we forget about those statements and call them "white herrings".

And, no matter how hard they  [CHEKA then the GPU then the KGB and all the communists] tried,  they never found the two who were missing, or, if they did, they could no longer bury their mature bones with the others....

AGRBear  

6604

The Imperial Family / Re: What got you interested in the Romanovs?

« on: June 28, 2004, 03:49:21 PM »

No one knows for sure what Nicholas II's final words were.  They could have been brave and glorius.  If they were,  I doubt the CHEKA and later the communists would have repeated such words through the years.  

Did your "grams" ever tell you from whom she heard her story about what Nicholas II may have voiced that eventful night?

AGRBear

6605

The Myth and Legends of Survivors / Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?

« on: June 28, 2004, 03:30:48 PM »

To those who have written that they are 'inclined' to accept the DNA results: which DNA results are you referring to?

I should mention that there were actually several American teams that examined the remains.  There was also a group from the University of Colorado that refused to sign off on the conclusions drawn by the Russian Commission.

As far as Maples, Levine, et al are concerned, they admitted that their work was hampered by a lack of time, a lack of facilities, and no medical or dental records by which to form a proper reference to compare the remains.  In other words, they were working entirely under the assurances and instructions from the Russian Government that the remains were the Imperial Family.  From that flimsy assumption, they based their conclusions.  

This gross violation of methodogy is sufficient to invalidate the osteopaleoforensics as it relates to establishing the identity of the Ekaterinburg remains.

There was a "gross violation" of the Koptyaki grave by the hurried process of yanking out bones from a "crime scene".  My husband says I watch too many CSI shows on tv.  I for one am glad the Russian  officals brought in Maples or we might never have known what he and his staff discovered.  And, if they had been allowed proper time,  who knows what else they would have found.

AGRBear

6606

The Myth and Legends of Survivors / Re: Did any of the Romanovs survive?

« on: June 28, 2004, 03:16:56 PM »

Atlantis Magazine information can be found on the following URL: http://www.atlantis-magazine.com/

Still reading Fate of the Romanovs by King and Wilson.  Very interesting. And I will have questions.

AGRBear

6607

Imperial Claimants Post Here / Re: For Serious Claimants, Please[quote author=Can

« on: June 28, 2004, 02:44:43 PM »

This information came from an article I saw and in the Telegraph newspaper on September 25, 1996.  I still have the cutting. The small article did not specify which imperial grand duchesses were dropped off at Oran in French North Africa. The article was written by Charles Arnold-Baker.

My belief is consistant with other people that believe that two of the girls did escape.  If this article is a thread one cannot dismiss it.  If this is correct, it would also be feasible that they would've settled somewhere in the south of Europe.

Comments and discussions are not meant to throw egg in anyone's face nor to challenge any one person. This is purely to share opinions and information and possibly stumble into a true credible mystery.

We know that there was a rescue attempt.  What if it had been half successful?  

I think an open mind is needed until all the facts are in.  The only problem is what are the facts and what are the "red herrings"?

If there is a report that two of the girls were rescued and taken to N. Africa, then what can that mean?  It means one of the two girls may have been the girl missing from the Koptyaki grave.  And if it  is true, then one of the two girls must have been recaputred by the Soviets, returned to Ekaterinburg area, killed [for the second time, so to speak] and buried with the others....  I say this because it is said that only one girl is missing from the Koptyaki grave.  

What if one was a girl and the other, Alexis, who was young enough to have pretended he was a girl?  The girls could have cut their hair and braided their hair into his.  Did he and any of his sisters have the same color hair?

If it was two girls to N. Africe and Alexis was taken somewere else that that time and the three were not in the Koptyaki grave after the 19th of July 1918, was there anyone in the grave at this time?

Science is good but, I assume,  it hasn't been discovered how to pin point the exact date the bodies were buried in the Koptyaki grave.

According to the FATE OF THE ROMANOVS,  alot of bones are missing from the Koptyaki grave.  Perhaps this is because bodies were moved around... We already are told that they were moved at least once from the Four Brothers Mine to the Koptyaki grave.  Were there other graves?  Or were the bodies which were missing added later?  Perhaps after the Red Army defeated the Whites..... 1919....

The  best liers are the ones who stick closer to the truth.


AGRBear

6608

The Imperial Family / Re: What got you interested in the Romanovs?

« on: June 28, 2004, 01:21:22 PM »

Anna wrote:  >>This is an exceptional story. Why did Mr.XXX choose you in particular to tell you his story as you were only five at that time, why didn't he tell your grandfather?
    It's obvious a five year old child couldn't understand any of this. Why didn't you asked your grandfather? He could have known his name.  Is it possible Mr. X was one of the guards in Ekaterinburg? Did you kept this story a secret all those years or did you make investigations to find out, if, like you said this story turns out to be a red herring." The Fate of the Romanovs"is of course a great source but there are other sources to check I think.
     A lot of questions, but interesting to get some answers. <<

Answer:
Since it was my grandfather who told me to remember every word Mr. XXX told me,  I assume, he knew and his brother knew what it was I was told.  

Since my last entry, I have read a great deal of the Fate of the Romanovs and in my eyes it appears  Mr. XXX's story is quite  possibly closer to the truth of what happen that night of 16/17 July 1918.

As to why I was told the story,  I really don't know.

So, that is how I became intersted in the Romanov and the events which occured on the night of 16/17 July 1918.

For farther comments,  I'll be over on the thread which talks about: Did any of the Romanovs survive?

AGRBear

6609

The Myth and Legends of Survivors / Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia

« on: June 25, 2004, 05:44:49 PM »

So, the next questions might be:
Did she jump into the canel or was she pushed?

Did she belong in the asylum or was this just what the German police did automaticaly when it appeared someone tried to commet sucide and needed help...?

Or was she from day one part of some deep dark CHEKA plot to make sure no one believe another person who claimed they were a survivor of the night of the 16/17 July 1918?

AGRBear

6610

The Imperial Family / Re: Ghosts, Hauntings & Mysticism in the Romanov Family

« on: June 25, 2004, 03:28:14 PM »

It was more than Maria's ghost in the lives of the Romanovs.

Since I am probably one of the old ones posting,    I am more in touch with the mystical world  my generation and those before me were a part.  I say this for several reasons.  In my youth, known to some as the Dark Ages,  we didn't have tv so we listen to the old timers and their stories.  Some stories were serious, some funny and the ones I like best were the ones about ghost.  When I'd ask if the story was "really true" the reply would be "yes"...  After a real good ghost story was told,   I would go to bed and in the darkness of the bedroom I'd see all kinds of shadowy shapes..... The bed covers would go over my head and I'd wonder if tonight I'd see a ghost beckoning me to some unknown border....maybe, even death.

I always have felt that  my generation was born on the border of the Dark Ages and the world of medical break throughs, computers and other great new things...  Today, most of what was once "mysterious" can be explained.  In my youth,  the mysterious was often explained in  mystical and spiritual terms.  And I assume both the mystical and spiritual were needed by Alexandra who's only son ended up with hemophilia....  

Alexandra was looking for answers....  The medical world didn't have any answers accept the fact that Alexis had a blood disorder which would probably kill him before he became an adult and were of no help to her or her son in his pain.  Unfortunately, someone recommended Rasputin, who claimed he not only had the answers but claimed he had  the power of God to help Alexis.

From that day to this, the dark shadowy ghost of Rasputin flies like the Disney creature of evil over the lives of the Royal Russian family.

AGRBear  

6611

Olga Nicholaievna / Re: Olga's crushes: Pavel Voronov, Dmitri Shakh-Bagov, Nikolai, N.P., AKSH, dear S, etc.

« on: June 25, 2004, 02:36:39 PM »

I'd like to know more about this young man.

Also,  was there ever any talk about whom her mother and father wanted Olga to marry?  

AGRBear

6612

Imperial Claimants Post Here / Re: For Serious Claimants, Please

« on: June 25, 2004, 02:15:15 PM »

I am not Rodger.  

He had mentioned that there was a thread on claimants and I assumed he meant this thread.

Am I still in the wrong place?

AGRBear

PS
There were many agents moving around Russia, especially the House of Special Purpose.  Surly someone was working on a rescue?  What about someone in  the White Army who was about to enter Ekaterinburg?

6613

The Myth and Legends of Survivors / Re: Anna Anderson and Anastasia

« on: June 25, 2004, 12:33:41 PM »

Is it true that Anna Anderson first said she was G.D. Tatiana?

AGRBear

6614

The Imperial Family / Re: What got you interested in the Romanovs?

« on: June 25, 2004, 12:19:41 PM »

Sorry it took me so long to get back to answer.

I do not know who "the man" was.  For a long time,  I thought I did, but it turns out that  I don't think that was his name.  I, now, just refer to  him as Mr. XXX .

Mr. XXX must have been in Ekaterinburg or knew someone who knew first hand as to what happen in Ekaterinburg on the night of 16/17 July.  I'ver never found evidence that has disproved what I was told about that night.  The part of the story all of you want to know is what he said about Alexis and Anatasia.  He told me in 1947:  "two bodies will be missing"  "the crown prince" [referring to Alexei/Alexis, son of Nicholas II]  and ______  [at this time I will with hold the name because I'm still waiting to see what I know can or cannot be proven, however, I will say it was one of his sisters].

If you have any doubts. let me state:  Back in the 1970s,  I wrote down the place where the bodies could be found and the names of the two Romanovs who would be missing from the grave.  This has been offically marked if it needs be present in a court of law.

I've just recieved the book Fate of The Romanovs and will dash through it to see if they have proof that Mr. XXX's story was true or just another "red herring"....

AGRBear

6615

Imperial Claimants Post Here / Re: For Serious Claimants, Please

« on: June 23, 2004, 12:05:15 PM »

Perhaps the subject should read For Serious Conversation about the Claimants, Please.

Rodger sent me here to talk about Claimants.  This is what I wrote on another board on 19 June 04:

 Massie mentioned some of the imposters in The Romanovs, The Final Chapter in Part II.
1.  Nadezhda Ivanova Vasilyeva died  in 1971 in a asylum in Riga
2.  Two women, real names uknown, however, know as Marie and Anastasia who died in the Urals in 1964
3. Filipp G.  Semyonov who was said to have hemophilia and claimed to have been Alexis
4. Marga Boodts who lived in Italy and claimed to be Olga
5. Larisa Feodorovna Tudor died 1927 and buried in Kent, England who claimed she was Tatiana.
6.  A man who  lived in Madrid as Prince Alexis d'Anjou whom some said was Alex Brimeyer.... died in Spain
7. Man, name unknown, claimed to be Alexis and lived in Ulm, Germany
8. Alexi Tammet-Romanov died in 1977 in Vancover, British Columbia
9.  Prince Alexis Romanov who died in 1986 and had lived in Scottsdale, Arizonia
10.  Another Alexis was said to have been assassinated in Chicago by the KGB...
11 & 12.   Two people who claimed to be Alexis and Anastasia met in USA and gained some attention by the press... names unknown
13.  Goleniewski died in 1993..
14. Eugenia Smith lived in Illinois then R.I. and Massie said was still living in 1995
15.  others
16. Anna Anderson (Manahan), who always had the most attention, died 1984, and whom many believe was a Polish peasant

Anyone have any other names?

AGRBear

P.S. 23 June 04: I will add to this.  Since several of you have studied some of the claimants, perhaps this thread could talk about what we have learned about claimants, excluding Anna Anderson, since she has her own discussion thread.