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Messages - Prince_Christopher

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16
The Wittlesbachs / Re: Bavarian princess Alexandra Amelie
« on: July 11, 2008, 08:29:29 AM »
Greg King states in The Mad King that Alexandra, along with one of her sisters, was afflicted with mental illness and spent many years locked away in a convent.
(p. 252)

17
The Wittlesbachs / Re: Princess Elvira of Bavaria
« on: July 11, 2008, 07:19:16 AM »
Anyone know the story behind her marriage?  She was the only one of her siblings not to make a royal marriage.  Was it a love match?

18
Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Family of Emperor Pavel I
« on: July 11, 2008, 07:09:41 AM »
Sadly, all the girls but Maria and Anna died young....

19
Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Family of Emperor Pavel I
« on: July 10, 2008, 03:39:11 PM »
Paul, Emperor of Russia (1754-1801)

m. 1) (1773) Wilhelmine of Hesse-Darmstadt "Natalia Alexeievna" (1755-1776)--died in childbirth, no surviving children.
m. 2) (1776) Sophie of Wurttemberg "Maria Feodorovna" (1759-1828)

Children of Paul and Sophie:

1. Alexander I, Emperor of Russia (1777-1825)
m. (1793) Luise of Baden "Elisabeth Alexeievna" (1779-1826)
children: Maria and Elisabeth, both died young

2. Constantine (1779-1831)
m. 1) (1796) Juliana of Saxe-Coburg-Saalfeld "Anna Feodorovna" (1781-1860) div. 1820
m. 2) (1820) Countess Joanna Grudzinscy, Princess Lowicka (d.1831)
No issue

3. Alexandra (1783-1801), died in childbirth
m. (1799) Archduke Joseph of Austria (1776-1847)

4. Elena (1784-1803)
m. (1799) Friedrich Ludwig, Hereditary Grand Duke of Mecklenburg-Schwerin (1778-1819)

5. Maria (1786-1859)
m. (1804) Karl Friedrich, Grand Duke of Saxe-Weimar (1783-1853)

6. Catherine (1788-1819)
m. 1) (1809) George, Duke of Oldenburg (1784-1812)
m. 2) (1816) King Wilhelm I of Wurttemberg (1781-1864)

7. Olga (1792-1795)

8. Anna (1795-1865)
m. (1816) King Willem II of the Netherlands (1792-1849)

9. Nicholas I, Emperor of Russia (1796-1855)
m. (1817) Charlotte of Prussia "Alexandra Feodorovna" (1798-1860)

10. Michael (1798-1849)
m. (1824) Charlotte of Wurttemberg (1807-1873)


20
Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Family of Emperor Pavel I
« on: July 09, 2008, 08:14:23 AM »
The eldest sons were taken away from the parents. They saw each other very little. Why were the sons brought up by their grandmother ?

A selfish prerogative of a monarch---Catherine II took her eldest grandchildren, hoping to indoctrinate them and educate them to her liking and to groom them as future rulers of Russia (something that was later done w/ Vicky and Fritz's oldest children, and Marie and Ferdinand's of Roumania, and others, I suppose).  Catherine thought little of her son's abilities, to me it seems she always treated him as a non-entity. 

21
Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Re: Family of Emperor Pavel I
« on: July 08, 2008, 02:34:58 PM »
An interesting family, but pathetically sad from Paul's point of view, IMO.

His oldest sons, Alexander and Constantine, I believe were raised totally under the influence of their grandmother and were in their early twenties when Paul was murdered.

The girls were of course groomed to marry into foreign ruling houses.

Nicholas and Michael and some of the girls were very young children when their father died.

I don't think he was very close to any of them....

22
Poor girl, she had a very sad life...When I was reading Peter the Great, by Massie, I felt a deep pity for Charlotte, since she was the first germanic princess marriying into the russian imperial family and she found nothing but a broken heart and, I suspect, a tortured mind.

During this period and after, it was practically a death sentence for European princesses to be part of a Russian marriage....

23
The Imperial Family / Re: Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna
« on: July 07, 2008, 10:58:51 PM »
I have to say that talking about the Imperial Family Fundamental laws now, in 2008, is just hot air.  Dead rhetoric.  Would they not have changes anyway had the dynasty survived? impossible to think that survival and radical change would not have gone hand in hand.  It was the intractability of the old material that doomed them in the first place.

I agree.  If the dynasty had survived and continued to rule Russia, succession laws would had to have been changed.  After Nicholas II and Michael, I believe the succession would have passed to Kyrill.  Surviving monarchies have had to change succession laws to reflect current attitudes--Queens will one day reign in Belgium, the Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden because girls were born before their brothers.  Look what has happened recently in the Romanian RF.  Michael of Russia would have been allowed to rule but I doubt seriously Natasha would have had equal status.  She would have been on a level similar to Catherine Dolgoruky.  Kyrill's and Victoria Melita's cousinship would have been overlooked because of VM's pedigree, and I think Leonida's would have been accepted as well. There is even a precedent for Maria Vladimirovna's situation w/ her ex-husband and son:  The house of Romanov is really the house of Holstein-Gottorp, if I remember correctly!  However, at this point, I doubt George Hohenzollern/Romanov would be expected to make a royal marriage, they are so uncommon and no one does them.  Heirs are allowed to marry, for the most part, whomever they wish nowadays.



24
The Wittlesbachs / Re: Princess Elvira of Bavaria
« on: July 07, 2008, 05:59:31 PM »
Princess Elvira Alexandrina Marie Cäcilia Klara Eugenie of Bavaria (Munich 22 Nov 1868-Vienna 1 Apr 1943); m.Nymphenburg 28 Dec 1891 Count Rudolf von Wrbna-Kaunitz-Rietberg-Questenberg u.Freudenthal (Nemes-Kér 4 Jun 1864-Brünn 24 Dec 1927)
 
I found three children for her:

Rudolf (1892-1936) m.(1930) Bertha Weidemann
Isabella (1894-1964) m. 1st (1915) Count Karl Anton Esterhazy (div.1923) m. 2nd (her brother-in-law) Count Geza Esterhazy.  She had a total of 7 children.
Alfons (1896-1964) m.(1944) Josephine Kellenberger

25
Their World and Culture / Re: Philip Alexius de Laszlo
« on: July 03, 2008, 09:03:21 AM »
I didn't realize what an interesting live de Laszlo led....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_de_Laszlo


A gallery of his work:

http://www.delaszloarchivetrust.com/egalery.php

26
Their World and Culture / Re: Philip Alexius de Laszlo
« on: July 03, 2008, 08:55:03 AM »
I absolutely love de Laszlo's portraits.  He was able to capture something, some intimacy, (I don't know exactly how to express it), about the person he painted.  The one of Elisabeth of Roumania/Greece is chilling.

27
Carlo Maria Buonaparte,Nobile di Toscana,lived from 1746-1785
                               I
Lucien Bonaparte,Prince di Canino and Musignano,lived from 1775-1840
                               I
Prince Pierre Napoleon Bonaparte,lived from 1815-1881
                               I
Roland,6th Prince di Canino e Musignano,lived from 1858-1924
                               I
PRINCESS MARIA LAETITIA BONAPARTE,later PRINCESS OF GREECE AND DENMARK,lived from 1882-1962



After Prince Roland's death, whom did the "Prince of Canino" title pass to, or did it become extinct?

28
The Greek RF was fairly new (and poor) when Marie and George married, and I'm sure her fortune made her an attractive, suitable bride for George.  George's family was willing to overlook her parvenu royal status, as they later did for Mrs. Leeds (who had no royal status whatsoever, just a big pile of money). 

I have to agree with you, Dmitryalex, I doubt that the Russians would have accepted Marie in a traditional marriage.  They were far too weathy and did not have to worry about providing lifelong incomes for younger sons



29
The Wittlesbachs / Re: Duke Franz Joseph in Bavaria (1888-1912)
« on: July 01, 2008, 10:24:53 AM »
Here are links to articles about Franz Joseph from the NY Times.  The first one deals with his American visit and the second announces his death.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9F05E3D71230E233A2575BC1A96E9C946196D6CF

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9E0CE6D71630E233A25756C2A96F9C946396D6CF

30
I personally think Marie was of sufficient rank to marry George equally.

However, her extreme wealth placed her in a separate category that really almost eclipsed status, making it a moot point.  Heiresses like Mrs. Leeds, Antonia Kohary, Edwina Ashley, and others were accepted for their fortunes.

I think George would have wed Marie even if her surname had been simply Blanc.

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