The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum

Good point, although back then they didn't have dna evidence, and if Rock's body had been turned into hamburger meat and sold on the street, there wouldn't have been much to identify.

Precisely, no body then there is always the chance that the person survived. So. if years later you see a dead ringer you could assume is that person.

Well.......

what if you had been told (and seen news coverage of) that Rock Hudson had been killed several years earlier by a guy named Grossman, who killed famous actors and sold their flesh on the street as meat?

Then, when you saw Rock ravaged by AIDS, would you still have said "oh, there's Rock", or would you have said "wow, that guy is a dead ringer for Rock, only thinner"?

You make a point there. But, in this case Felix was supposed to id her sister Franziska not Anastasia. And , only when you have a body fully id you have a certainty the person is dead. Returning to Hudson, if his body had been found I would say he is a dead ringer if not I would say that is Rock Hudson and he did not die as people said.

True, true.

HOWEVER.......one of the things Felix reported was that she did not recognize HIM, and that statement was made in his description of why he thought she wasn't FS.

Imagine if you met up with an old friend who did NOT speak the same, did NOT give the same laugh, and had a different body language.  Plus who had lost about 50 lbs and a bunch of teeth.  

SO much of our ability to recognize old friends is based on their recognition of us, that connection we make when we meet their eyes, the shared memories that are hinted at just in a smile or a laugh.

Well, this Felix was really a piece of work: She is not my sister because she did not recognize me!!!!!!! What kind of statement is that. You have a line up of people and you need to id a thief that stole from you, and you see him but say he is not the thief because he THE THIEF did not recognize me.

An old friend is very much different to a sibling with whom you share not only your earliest memories but genes. Blood is much thicker.
But returning to the friend see Rock Hudson before and after AIDS pictures and you know is Rock Hudson, and it is just a picture. The same with actors in different body language and weight, and make -up in different movies, no matter what, you know is Sofia Loren or Brad Pitt.  

Interesting comments on the dna, but let me remind everyone that the PREMIS OF THIS PARTICULAR THREAD is that AA was not AN and that AA was, in fact, FS.  So we are working under that assumption, for the sake of this thread.

I need to see again that description of the first meeting with Felix and AA as to how long they talked privately.  I do not think it was for very long, and I think people were watching them.  If it was a 15 minute chat, then I am very very doubtful that Felix actually recognized her and that she convinced him to shut up.  The body language in that conversation would have been extremely indicative of an argument or at least someone trying to get someone else to do or say something.

I think I'm going to stick with my initial assumption that Felix actually did not recognize AA, not because she wasn't actually his sister, but because she had undergone too many physical changes and refused to recognize HIM.

If a have to recognize my sister no matter how many changes, and in AA we are talking minor changes remember no LA plastic surgeons at that time, I would only need a minute. When people die in tragic accidents where people are hardly recognizable the next of kin are called, and most of the time they recognize their relatives for small details. Who does not remember a brother, a sister, a parent for the way they talk, laugh, smile, look at you. Come on, it is common sense.

Thank you Michael G. It is my philosophy in life not to accept anything as the ultimate truth.  Where people are involved there is always a margin for error, and certainly, I would not dare to use a sample with so many possibilities of contamination as the definite proof of any person's identity, being AA or John Smith.

Interesting point, are there any precedents to back up your argument?  

There are many cases across the States were proof was not admissible because it was contaminated, or the source or the environment was not reliable. I will give you an example, not that good but illuminating enough, with the OJ Simpson where much of the evidence from the crime scene was not used because the lawyers proved that it was contaminated either by the officers or the lab.

I am not saying that AA was Anastasia, but her life seen as a whole gives a reasonable doubt that she could be Anastasia.

I disagree the expert can be recognized by US courts but it does not mean that the sample has any value to a US Court. Any lawyer could make those samples unacceptable before a US court proving that they came from a facility after AA death and not taken directly from her at the time of the test.

Many things could happen to a sample stored in a Hospital long after the death of AA.

We cannot say in all truth Anna Anderson was not Anastasia, with 100% certainty. The samples used  for the DNA test would not be used in a court of law, at least in the States. So, how can we pass judgement on a person' life and identity. She knew too much in an era where media and information of the Romanov were NOT so spread to the minute detail as it is today. On top of that you add the anatomical similarities and the acknowledgement of some people that knew Anastasia. Besides, no remains of Anastasia found
At the very least I would leave a big interrogation mark on AA life and identity

There is a book called "Un fiorentino sul trono di Savoia", a very interesting theory about Vittorio Emanuele being the son of a butcher and not a Savoia. It would explain many traits of his character and appearance. I forgot to say that the butcher's family was from Florence. Still you can see the place where this supposed replacement for the real Vittorio Emanuele, who the author said  died in a palace fire, was born.

what happened, Katusha? where are the facts that you so much care?

At this pace, I am the great great great..... grandson of Cleopatra.