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Topics - umigon

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16
Rulers Prior to Nicholas II / Tsarina Elisabeth Petrovna
« on: August 19, 2005, 12:27:54 PM »
Did Empress Elizabeth (1709-1762) have any illegitimate issue?

Was Yelizaveta Alekseyevna Tarakanova her real daughter??


What do you think?

17
French Royals / Catherine de Medicis
« on: August 18, 2005, 06:59:18 PM »


Well, she is one of my favourite historical figures, so I would like to start a new thread on her...


What do you think about this woman?? Was she a fantastic politician, as I think, or do you really believe the black press she received in her times who called her 'Madame Serpent'?

18
Iberian Royal Families / Princesses of Asturias
« on: August 16, 2005, 01:26:17 PM »
In another thread Prince Lieven asked if ever in Spain a woman had been styled as Princess of Asturias in her own right. Well, Prince, I am writing here my response, all the Princesses of Asturias since Henry III of Castile (who was the first Spanish prince to be styled as such in 1388):

1. Doña María, daughter of Henry III (1402-1405)

2. Doña Catalina, daughter of Juan II (1422-1422)

3. Doña Leonor, daughter of Juan II (1424-1424)

4. Doña Juana, daughter of Enrique IV (1462-1464 and 1470)

5. Doña Isabel, daughter of Juan II (1468-1474), she became Queen Isabella I in 1474, the wife of Ferdinand of Aragon.

6. Doña Isabel, daughter of Isabella (1476-1478 and 1498)

7. Doña Juana, daughter of Isabella (1502-1504), she became Queen Joan I, the Mad, in 1504.

8. Doña María Teresa, daughter of Felipe IV (1655-1657)

9. Doña Isabel, daughter of Fernando VII (1833-1833), she became Queen Isabella II in 1833.

10. Doña Isabel, daughter of Isabella II (1851-1857 and 1875-1880)

11. Doña María de las Mercedes, daughter of Alfonso XII (1881-1904)


There were also some women that were heiress presumptive:

1. Doña Isabel Clara Eugenia, daughter of Felipe II (1568-1571)

2. Doña Ana Mauricia, daughter of Felipe III (1601-1605)

3. Doña María Teresa, daughter of Felipe IV (1646-1655; when she was formally styled as Princess of the Asturias)

4. Doña Margarita, daughter of Felipe IV (1-6 nov 1661 and 1665-1673)

4. Doña María Antonia, daughter of Doña Margarita and Emperor Leopold I (1673-1692)

5. Doña Luisa Fernanda, daughter of Fernando VII (1833-1851)

All of them could have become Queens of Spain had the King who was reigning when they were named died!


19
The Tudors / The Virgin Queen?
« on: August 12, 2005, 08:04:28 AM »


I don't know if this has come up in other threads- I suppose it has.

I imagine most of you assume that Elizabeth's virginity had disappeared for a while when "Old Bessie" died in 1603. I would like to ask you two things, to see if more people have heard what I have:

1. I read once that Elizabeth didn't marry because she had a congenital deformity thanks to which she had no vagina. Knowing this, Elizabeth supposedly decided she was not going to marry. I read it in a book by Carlos Fisas, a historian, not on an Internet page or another crap sheet.

2. I also read, but I can't remember where, that Elizabeth had a purported illegitimate son he was in the navy, or the army, can't remember quite well.

What do you think of all of this??

20


She was a French princess, but as a Spanish Queen, I thought it was better to write about her here.

I think she was a charming creature and I would love to discuss her in this thread!

Born in 1546 to Henry II of France and Catherine of Medicis, she married Philip II of Spain in 1559. Of her four pregnancies only two daughters survived: Isabel Clara Eugenia and Catalina Micaela. She died prematurely in 1568, leaving her husband and Spain devastated.



Queen Isabel

21

Well, the thread about them is started, ilyala.

For those who don't know them, Philippe was born in 1640 to Louis XIII of France and Anne of Austria, thus being Louis XIV younger brother. Spoiled by his mother, he ended being a frivolous (at times) and witty young and attractive homosexual. Married because of political reasons in 1661 to his cousin Henrietta Anne Stuart (1644-1670), daughter of the ill-fated King Charles I, their marriage was a personal failure, and although they managed to conceive 8 children, only two daughters survived: Marie Louise, future Queen of Spain; and Anne Marie, future Queen of Sardinia.

Married then in 1671 to Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate (1652-1722), a woman who was much more tolerant and personally stable than Minette (Henrietta), after having three children, Monsieur and Liselotte decided to sleep separately for the rest of their lives. Their two surviving children were: future Duke Philippe II of Orleans and Elizabeth Charlotte, future Duchess of Lorraine.

Philippe was a talented warrior, and he gained some respect in battles during the first half of the 1660's. Louis, jealous of his brother's fame, forbid him to take part in any thing which had to do with war under the excuse that he was his only brother. Philippe was also a loving and doting father, but a horrible husband and an extremely jealous lover. He also engaged in many debts that made Liselotte fear for her children's future...


Philippe would die in 1701, after a strong argument he had with his brother. Louis cried for days, but forced the Court to do normal life.

22
The Tudors / Anne Boleyn: a beheaded pregnant woman?
« on: August 05, 2005, 06:50:06 AM »

Have you heard about one of Alison Weir's theories that says Anne Boleyn was pregnant of very little time when she was brought to the scaffold. What do you think about this theory?

23
The Tudors / Tudor Queens
« on: July 11, 2005, 05:58:38 PM »
I didn't know where I was meant to post this, I put it here because I think the Stuarts are closer to the Tudors than the Windsors are. If I was meant to put it in the Windsors place, please I ask the Moderator to move it.


I write this to discuss which of the Tudor Queens loved more and did the most for England. We can't exclude Mary I, Lady Jane and Elizabeth, but I would like to make the Queen consorts the main aim of the discussion: Elizabeth of York, Catherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne of Cleves, Catherine Howard and Catherine Parr.

In my opinion, the Queen Consort who did the most for the country was, without a doubt (again is my opinion), Catherine of Aragon. Of the reigning Queens, well I think both Mary and Elizabeth loved England, although in such different ways. Well, maybe not so differently, but just with different points of view. About Lady Jane, what I have read on her shows us an intelligent and well educated young girl who had no ambitions. Her short reign, however, is not a proof of what kind of woman she would have ended up being...


What do you think?

24
Iberian Royal Families / Consanguinity in the Spanish royal family
« on: June 27, 2005, 12:40:47 PM »
With this thread I would like to comment and discuss a fact which, in my opinion, is a very interesting one within Spanish royals. I think the Spanish monarchy is the European monarchy with the most and the worst cases of consanguineous marriages. I am going to write down all of the different Spanish kings and queens and their respective consorts with their blood relationships:

1.      Ferdinand (1452-1516) and Isabella (1451-1504). They were married in 1469 and they were second cousins. Five of their children survived. Isabella also had a miscarriage and a stillborn daughter.
2.      Joan (1479-1555) and Philip I (1578-1506). They were married in 1496 and they were distant cousins. Their six children survived. From this point onwards is when the situation becomes interesting!
3.      Charles I (1500-1558 ) and Isabella of Portugal (1503-1539). They were married in 1526 and they were first cousins; their mothers (Joan and Mary of Aragon) being sisters. Only three of their seven children survived.
4.      Philip II (1527-1598 ).
·      He married firstly Maria Manuela of Portugal (1527-1545) in 1543. Philip’s father and Maria’s mother were brother and sister and, on the other hand, Philip’s mother and Maria’s father were ALSO sister and brother. Their only child, Carlos (1545-1568 ), was mentally unstable and his body was quite deformed.
·      Philip married secondly Mary I Tudor (1516-1558 ) in 1554. Mary was first cousin of Philip’s father, both being maternal grandchildren of Ferdinand and Isabella. This marriage proved barren.
·      His third marriage took place in 1559 and he married Elizabeth of Valois (1546-1568 ), of whom he was a distant cousin. Two daughters survived into adulthood, Elizabeth suffered a miscarriage of twin sisters and her last daughter only survived an hour and a half.
·      Philip married in fourth place Anna of Austria (1549-1580) in 1570. Anna was his niece, being daughter of his sister Empress Mary, but she was also the daughter of his cousin, Emperor Maximilian. She bore him 7 children of whom only one, Philip III, survived infancy.

5.      Philip III (1578-1621) and Margaret of Austria (1584-1611). They were married in 1599. She was the daughter of Archduke Charles, great uncle of Philip, and of Mary Anne of Bavaria, who was her husband’s own niece. Margaret had 8 children, with five survivors.
6.      Philip IV (1605-1665).

·      He married firstly Elizabeth of France (1603-1644) in 1615. Elizabeth’s maternal grandmother, Archduchess Joan of Austria, was great great aunt to Philip. Their marriage was not very consanguineous, but of Elizabeth’s pregnancies, three ended in miscarriages, five daughters died very young, a son died in his teens and only a daughter, Maria Theresa, survived into adulthood.
·      His second wife was Marianna of Austria (1634-1696), whom he married in 1649. Marianna was the daughter of Emperor Ferdinand III, Philip’s cousin, and of infanta María, Philip’s sister. So, Marianna was her husband’s niece. Of their six children only two survived into adulthood.

7.      Charles II (1661-1700). He succeeded his father, Philip IV, in 1665. He died without issue, leaving the Crown to the grandson of his half-sister Maria Theresa, Philip of Anjou.
·      He married Marie Louise of Orleans (1662-1689) in 1679. Marie Louise’s father, Duke Philippe of Orleans was Charles cousin, but he was also Charles’s mother’s cousin!
·      His second wife was Maria Anna of Neuburg (1667-1740). They were married in 1690 and they were very distant cousins.

8.      Philip V (1683-1746).

·      He married firstly Maria Louisa Gabriella of Savoy (1688-1714) in 1701. They were second cousins. Of their four children only one would survive into adulthood, Ferdinand VI. Two died very young and the eldest, Louis I, died in his teens.
·      His second wife was Isabel Farnese of Parma (1692-1766). They were married in 1714 and they were very distant cousins. Of their seven children only one didn’t make it into adulthood.
9.      Louis I (1707-1724). He married Louise Isabelle of Orleans (1709-1742) in 1722. Louise was Philip V’s first cousin. This marriage was childless.

10.      Ferdinand VI (1713-1759). He married Barbara of Portugal (1711-1758 ) in 1729. They were distant cousins. This marriage was childless.

11.      Charles III (1716-1788 ). He married Maria Amalia of Saxony (1724-1760) in 1738. Although they were distant cousins, six of their thirteen children died in infancy or in their early teens. Another son, Felipe, was mentally retarded.

12.      Charles IV (1748-1819). He married Maria Louisa of Parma (1751-1819) in 1765. They were first cousins, as Maria Louisa’s father, Duke Filippo, was Charles III’s brother. They shared other blood relationships. Of Maria Louisa’s pregnancies (24 in total), ten ended in miscarriages, seven children died in infancy, a daughter died in her late teens and the other five survived into adulthood.

13.      Ferdinand VII (1784-1833).

·      His first wife was Maria Antonia of Bourbon-Naples (1784-1806). They were married in 1802. They were first cousins, as Antonia’s father, King Ferdinand IV of Naples and Sicily (later Ferdinand I of the Two Sicilies), was Charles IV of Spain’s brother. Only two miscarriages were produced in this marriage.
·      He married Maria Isabel of Braganza(1797-1818 ) in 1816. Isabel was his niece, as her mother, Carlota Joaquina, was Ferdinand’s older sister. Her father, John VI of Portugal, was also related to Ferdinand. Two daughters were born to the couple, on died aged one, the other was stillborn.
·      His third wife was Maria Josepha Amalia of Saxony (1803-1829). They were married in 1819. Her mother, Caroline of Parma was Ferdinand’s first cousin and her father, Maximilian of Saxony, was a cousin of Charles IV.
·      Maria Christina of Bourbon Two Sicilies (1806-1878 ) was his fourth and last wife, and they were married in 1829. She was, as Isabel of Braganza had been, his niece, as her mother, Maria Isabel of Bourbon, was Ferdinand’s younger sister. Her father, King Francis I of the Two Sicilies, was Ferdinand’s cousin. Their two daughters survived into adulthood.

14.      Isabella II (1830-1904). Hers was, from my point of view, the marriage with the worst consanguineous nature in European Royalty I ever heard of. She married Francis of Assisi of Bourbon (1822-1904) in 1846. He was twice his cousin. Their fathers, Ferdinand VII and Infante Francis of Paula were brothers and their mothers, Maria Christina and Louisa Carlota of the Two Sicilies, were sisters. To make things worse, they were nieces to their husbands. Even more complicated is the fact that Ferdinand VII and Francis of Paula’s parents were first cousins and Maria Christina and Louisa Carlota’s parents were also first cousins!! They had 12 children, although maybe some were not fathered by King Francis. Of this 12 children only 5 survived childhood. Of this five a daughter, Pilar, died aged 18.

15.      Alfonso XII (1857-1885).

·      He married firstly Maria de las Mercedes of Orleans (1860-1878 ) in 1878. She was his first cousin, as their mothers, Queen Isabella II and Luisa Fernanda, were sisters. Her father, Antoine of France, was also related to Alfonso. This marriage was childless.
·      His second wife was Maria Christina of Austria (1858-1929). Her parents, Archduke Charles Ferdinand and Archduchess Isabella, were first cousins. Alfonso and Maria Christina shared distant blood relationships.       Their three children survived infancy, but their daughters died young.

16.      Alfonso XIII (1886-1941). He married Victoria Eugenia ‘Ena’ of Battenberg (1887-1969). They were very very distant cousins. Of their seven children all survived infancy except a son who was stillborn. Two of their sons were haemophiliac and another son was deaf and dumb.

17.      Juan Carlos I (1938-). He was Alfonso XIII’s grandson, being the son of Prince Juan and his wife and second cousin Maria of the Two Sicilies. He married Sophia of Greece (1938-) in 1962. Sophia’s great grandfather, Kaiser Wilhelm II, was a first cousin of Juan Carlos’s grandmother, Victoria Eugenia. Their three children have survived into adulthood and have married out of Royalty, which makes very difficult for them to be relatives of their partners.

25
Iberian Royal Families / Spanish Habsburg Queens
« on: May 05, 2005, 03:49:12 PM »
8. Isabelle of Bourbon (1603-1644): She was one of the daughters born to King Henry IV of France and his second wife, Marie de' Medici. She married future Philip IV in 1615, although their marriage would not be consummated until 1620. In 1621 she became Queen of Spain after her husband succeeded his father. She was beautiful, charming, intelligent and witty, but despite these facts, Philip was constantly unfaithful to her, something that made Isabelle suffer quite a lot. During her last years she opposed Philip's favorite, the Conde-Duque de Olivares, until he was dismissed in 1643. Isabel would die a year later, after having had ten pregnancies:

- Margarita Maria (1621-1621).
- Margarita María Catalina (1623-1623).
- María Eugenia (1625-1627).
- A miscarried girl (1626).
- Isabel María Teresa (1627-1627).
- Baltasar Carlos (1629-1646). Who was Prince of the Asturias but died very young.
- María Antonia Dominica Jacinta (1635-1637).
- María Teresa (1638-1683), who became Queen of France by marrying her cousin Louis XIV (1638-1715) in 1660.
- A miscarried girl (1640).
- A miscarried boy (1644).

9. Mariana of Austria (1634-1696): Born to Emperor Ferdinand III and Mary of Spain, she had been engaged to Prince Baltasar Carlos since she was two years old. When Baltasar died in 1646, she was chosen by her uncle Philip IV to be his second wife, as he had lost his wife two years earlier and his only son just a couple of months before. A marriage by proxy was held in 1648, but Mariana wouldn't arrive in Spain until late 1649, when she was properly married to her uncle Philip. He was 44 at the time, while Mariana was not yet 15. Although a happy couple for a while, Philip's constant infidelities and Mariana's everyday-growing bad temper made the marriage an unhappy one, in which the King and Queen only seemed to agree in one point: the making of babies:

- Margarita María Teresa (1651-1673), who married her uncle-cousin Emperor Leopold I (1640-1705) in 1666.
- María Ambrosia de la Concepción (1655-1655), an epyleptic who died with just 15 days of age.
- A daughter that just survived 10 hours (1656).
- Felipe Próspero (1657-1661).
- Fernando Tomás (1658-1659).
- Charles II (1661-1700), who became the heir to the throne.

After Philip IV's death Mariana became Queen Regent during the minority of Charles II. Although this Regency should have ended in 1675, Mariana continued to over influence her mentally retarded son all through her life. She died in 1696, of breast cancer, four years before her son's death.

10. María Luisa of Orleans (1662-1689): Daughter of the homosexual Philip of France and of the hysterical and witty Henrietta Anne Stuart, María Luisa would marry Charles II in 1679. Charles would love her with all his sick heart and she would end up feeling some type of affection for him. Accused of the couple's lack of heirs, she was forced to drink many weird potions that caused her the appendicitis that finally killed her.

11. Maria Anna of Neoburg (1667-1740): She had been born to the Elector of Neoburg, Philip Wilhelm Wittelsbach and to his second wife, Elisabeth Amalia of Hesse-Darmstadt. She was chosen as a wife for Charles II because her parents had produced 23 children and she was expected to do the same. Unlike María Luisa, she never resigned to her fate and she used her sick and mentally retarded husband as much as she liked, even inventing she was pregnant in order to gain more influences over Charles. She got to invent 12 different pregnancies!! She was a corrupt woman who never felt any type of compassion for the King until his last days, when she wouldn't separate from the dying king's bedside. Once Charles was dead she tried to make her nephew Charles of Austria (future Emperor Charles VI) the new king. But the new king of Spain, Philip V, arrived in Madrid before Charles and forced the Queen Dowager to abandon the Spanish capital. After living in Toledo for a while, Maria Anna would be expelled from Spain and ended up living in Bayonne, under Louis XIV's vigilance. She would return to Spain in 1739, but not being allowed to return to Madrid, she died in Guadalajara a year later. It was gossiped that during her exile years she secretly married one Jean de Larrétéguy, by whom she supposedly had some children.


Well I hope you have enjoyed reading this HUGE text if you didn't end up confused by so many names and family relations. Sorry if my English is, at times, very ''Spanglish'', hehe! Ah! and sorry about the translation of names, don't know if they are absolutely correct or if in English you just leave them as they are in the source language. Any doubt or problem, please ask!

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