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Messages - umigon

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I know nothing about him, but I remember reading somewhere that he died of tuberculosis.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Spanish Bourbon Infantas
« on: May 13, 2008, 05:16:09 PM »
hello !

I wonder if her child was a girl or a boy?

It was a stillborn baby girl.

Isabel was born in July 1789, not 85, so she was 16 years older than Francesco del Balzo.

The Tudors / Re: Education of Elizabeth I
« on: November 13, 2007, 07:05:32 AM »

That's exactly what I was going to say, Lenelor, and I was going to take my quotes from the same book, as well as from "La Casa Real de España", by Juan Balansó. I haven't got any actual proof of this, but I think Mary must have been able not only to understand Spanish, but also to talk a bit of it. Would anyone have forgotten absolutely the language of a mother and a country so dear to them?, I don't think so. I'll try to make some research on this. But it's true that Mary talked to Philip in French and he answered in Spanish.

About Elizabeth speaking Spanish and German, I know I've read it somewhere, although I can't remember where it was... I don't remember if that book specifically said that Elizabeth knew a lot or could just understand maintain an average conversation in those languages... Let's see what others say.


The Tudors / Re: Education of Elizabeth I
« on: November 07, 2007, 08:11:03 AM »

but he went more far than that.

That was meant to be but he never went more far than that

French Royals / Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« on: November 06, 2007, 06:54:54 AM »

Teenagers were also executed during the Revolution... I guess not only age, but also her position as a hostage to exchange with Austria, as I think it did occur. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

French Royals / Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« on: November 05, 2007, 06:30:14 PM »

Carol Jean, I think we were very polite, and I don't understand your reaction. This is a discussion forum and we come here to discuss. We just pointed out some facts we think would be important to support your theory that you haven't come forward with. It was just that: amiable discussion, I would say. Nothing else.

The Stuarts of Scotland / Re: Peter the Great and William III
« on: November 05, 2007, 06:24:47 PM »

I read somewhere that Anne tried to make James her heir once she became aware that she would be unable to bear a healthy child herself... I imagine that would be a few years after the Duke of Gloucester died in 1700. I think she did it because she hated George of Hanover (for some reason unknown to me... maybe because he had rejected her as a bride years before?) and because she probably felt that what belonged to the Stuarts should remain in Stuart hands. I don't think she ever thought James Edward wasn't her half-brother... she was just selfish and betrayed her father because having her sister at the throne would bring more benefits for her. Furthermore, she second in line to the throne until James's birth, and Mary had been married for 11 years and still didn't have any progeny. So, Anne supported Mary to be nearer to the throne, but once she saw she herself would die without issue, she would probably prefer her half-brother on the throne rather than a hated second cousin. The reason why her intentions didn't come to a good end is unknown to me.

French Royals / Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« on: November 05, 2007, 01:55:29 PM »

That's what I exactly meant. It's nothing personal against you, Carol Jean, but all the evidence you provide is subjective and intangible... I know people who look amazingly like each other and still have nothing in common, genetically speaking.

Furthermore, as belonging to the Royal Family of France is something you knew by oral tradition, it's easy that you could in fact be descended from France's haute noblesse and that this fact has become enhanced during all those generations until you were born. And there were also hundreds of people guillotined and persecuted during the French Revolution who were descendants of other kings of France. Or it could just be a legend. My mother's surname is Berenguer, and in our family oral tradition states that we are descended from the Counts of Barcelona and Rodrigo Diaz de Vivar, el Cid. I would love to be descended from them, but as yet I haven't found any tangible proof of it, so I just take it as what it is until now: oral tradition, family legend...

What I mean is what Eddieboy has pointed out: without any biological or documentray proof, your quest, as you name it, won't have any validity as an investigation. I maintain that it would have been impossible for Louis Charles to escape alone; at the same time, it would have been impossible for someone to help him out and not to write anything about it or at least tell it to someone!

French Royals / Re: Louis XVII - Did he die in the Tower?
« on: November 05, 2007, 07:53:43 AM »

Please, Carol Jean, don't take my words as being nasty or rude, as I think you have been very gentle in your accounts and I wouldn't like to break up the general tone of this discussion. Now, that said, I think everyone is free of thinkg they descend from this or that king or queen and it may indeed be true, but I don't think this can be proved by showing photos. Not even by DNA tests that, with centuries of distance would be dubious at the best. I think irrefutable proof of this alleged parentage would be producing letters proved to be real of the people involved in what happened in the 18th century and then a series of birth certificates demonstrating that you indeed descend from this long lost prince.

From what I read and what my general impression is, more importantly after scientists have tested a heart supposed to be that of Louis Charles with Marie Antoinette's hair and having obtained some results of significant positive character, I would say the Dauphin did indeed die in prison. Then, scientific questions put aside, I would think it most difficult for a child so firmly guarded as Louis Charles to not only to scape, but also to survive to the long and difficult journey to safe United States without any noble or important person helping him and writing down somewhere that the Dauphin was alive and safe by his own hand in the U.S.

But then, if you could prove this alleged parentage with real documents rather than with photographs, I would be mostly interested. And I think I wouldn't be the only one...

The Tudors / Re: Education of Elizabeth I
« on: November 05, 2007, 07:36:23 AM »

She did speak Spanish, and even had some notions of Welsh!! And, yes, Philip only knew how to speak well in Spanish and Portuguese. He also had some notions of French, but he went more far than that.

Alfonso XII used to say that his sister Isabel represented the pride of the family; Pilar, the sweetness; Paz, the calmness; and Eulalia, the happiness. An accurate description for all of them, I would say. He would have known better than anyone, of course.

French Royals / Re: The children of Henri II and Catherine de Medici
« on: October 06, 2007, 01:44:17 PM »

These were some of his mignons, although he had some others:

1. Jean Louis de Nogaret (1554-1642), duc d'Epernon.

2. François d'Or (+1594)

3. Jacques de Lévis (1554-1578), comte de Quélus.

4. Henri de Saint-Sulpice (+1576), baron de St.Sulpice.

5. Anne de Joyeuse (1560-1587), duc de Joyeuse.

6. Louis de Maugiron (+1578)

7. François d'Espinay (1554-1597)

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Carlota Joaquina of Spain, Queen of Portugal
« on: September 19, 2007, 11:29:42 AM »

I guess the match between D.José and his aunt was made not only out of affection, but also because of economic reasons. A match between two Portuguese princes would be cheaper than marrying off the prince to a foreign princess. Why? If a princess came to marry D.José, although she would bring along a dowry (back then not always paid, however), the Crown would have to give her a regular income. On the other hand, marrying a Portuguese infanta would mean that the Crown would only have to increase her income to that of a Princess of Beira. I think that was the case.

Iberian Royal Families / Re: Philippa of Lancaster, Queen of Portugal
« on: September 13, 2007, 12:02:17 PM »
I had only known of 9 children: Branca (1388), Afonso (1390), Duarte (1391), Pedro (1392), Henrique (1394), Isabel (1397), Branca (1398), Joao (1400) and Fernando (1402). But, given the times and the some times confusing information, why wouldn't it be possible that Philippa had given birth to three other children that might have died very young?

I think it's quite plausible. Where did you get the information from, aron?

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