The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum

It's relatively too early to interpret 1900-1918 events in Russia however here is a befitting quotation from Wikipedia that covers your discussion on Kerensky imo:

 The local Russian Orthodox Churches in New York refused to grant Kerensky burial, seeing him as being a freemason and being largely responsible for Russia falling to the Bolsheviks. A Serbian Orthodox Church also refused. Kerensky's body was then flown to London where he was buried at Putney Vale's non-denominational cemetery.

The article also touches on Kerensky's ties to "New York bankers" (who apparently stiill remain beyond criticism or reproach).

Just found it: The lithography of Vainamoinen, allegedly, a- nonexisting today- statue ordered at the time of "L.H.Nicolay's" death nevertheless.

http://www.njas.helsinki.fi/pdf-files/vol1num2/vento.pdf
   

Thank you Ipflo and Vassili for this thread that enabled me to establish that "Le Comte Saint Germain" finally came to rest, as Ludwig Heinrich "Nikolay",  1820 and was buried in the vault of "Ludwigstein's" chapel.

Any clue if his remains are still kept there?

Furthermore:

Going through your posts and recommended sites , I came across a lithography depicting a bearded man in classical attire sitting among rocks and trees  with a harpsicord on his lap (Harpiscord was the favourite instrument of "Gluck" as well as "Saint Germain"!), but unfortunately I failed to note address and can't find it now. Would you oblige?

Thanks again!

 
 

"Ludwig Heinrich von Nikolai" was the same person as "Nikolay Saltycov".  Both were aliases of Gioachino Cocchi aka Comte Saint Germain.

(This post is supplementary to "Alexander Sergeievich Stroganov" thread herein )

 

[III]

Correction of previous post : "Peter I" should read "Peter III".

Furthermore (re count Stroganov):

June 9, 1762 Count Stroganov who was in attendance behind her chair at a gala dinner to celebrate the peace treaty with Prussia, supports Catherine who is insulted by Peter III (Catherine the Great, by Virginia Rounding, p 138)

(Peter III was deposed on July 9, 1762, when Catherine "fled" from suburban Peterhof to St. Petersburg to be proclaimed empress by the Guards and the Senate.)

a)Sergei Vasilievitch Saltykov (Paul’s father), who "was ambassador to Paris 1761-1762" (History of My Life By Giacomo Casanova, Willard R. Trask, p356) married 1750 to a “Matryona Pavlovna”.. ….
b) Peter Semen Saltycov, governor of Moscau (with whom Catherine corresponded in French).

1.Casanova's "Matryona Pavlovna" translates as "Pavel's mother".
2. Peter Semenovich Soltikow's role and "french" identity can be traced at http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/chesterfield/letters/volume8.html (and volume 9, re Peter I's disposal)

Hey!

The prominent Russian Noble Family Saltykov has had many well known historic persons in Russian history. One branch of this family was on the 30.08.1814 by Emperor and Autocrat ALEXANDER I of all the Russias (1801-1825) created Prince Saltykov. Then there are also 3 Russian Countal families Saltykov. In March 1730 one was created Count Saltykov, on 19.01.1732 the second Count Saltykov was created and finally on 30.10.1790 the third Count Saltykov was created. Do anyone know if any of these Noble families Saltykov still exists? I have a friend that has the surname Saltykov and I wonder if he really belongs to any of these families. If you do not know do you then know where I could get this information? I have very little knowledge about Russian Nobility so I hope anyone can help be. Thank you VERY much in advance!

Check out "Alexander S. Stroganov" post below: all 18th century "prominent russian noble Saltykovs" were of greek-italian descent!
 

Catherine's captain of the guards was a Peter S.(ergeyevich) K. ("Cochin"), a son propably of comte "Saint Germain-Saltycov-Stroganov etc". He owned a house in the munition yard next to Catherine's Palace. Around 1774 he appears in Moscau as "Petr Nikitich(or Nikolayevich) K." and is the architect responsible for the town's renovation.

His father, as Stroganov and Kokorinov, renovated Petersburg. Saint Germain also signed (at the Lodge of the Neuf Soeurs) as "Nicholas Bricaire de La Dixmerie" (Nicholas the bricklayer of the tenth part-merie=μεριά=part in grk).

Petr Nikolaeyvich was propably the father of my g-g-grandfather.   

Thanks for your hospitality. 
 

   

Am I correct to assume you have solved my above riddle (in the PS) Mari?

'Cause that's where the "very interesting" part of my-otherwise conservative-revelations is hidden!

BTW Can you please confirm that Peter Semen "Saltycov" was Catherine's captain of guards in Saint Petersburg 1774-5 (before becoming governor of Moscau) ?





 

As a relative of Antonio Cocchi, he was a vegetarian:
 
"Saint Germain", "Chastellux" and "Grimm"  are all described as strict vegetarians (Chastellux eating only "above ground" vegetables) and we have Edgar Poe's description of Saint Germain as well (The Visionary  below rather than above average hight) and his (Grimm's Cocchi's Saint Germain's) portraits too.

Furthermore (Re "Comte Soltycoff"):

a)Catherine's trust to him (following her affair with "the late" Sergei Saltycov),
b)his remaining in- absolute- power following Paul I's death and
c)his control over the Malta "Hospitaliers"...         

Au décès de Paul Ier, en 1801, son fils Alexandre Ier de Russie, conscient de cette irrégularité, décide de rétablir les anciens us et coutumes de l'Ordre catholique des Hospitaliers[1], par un édit du 16 mars 1801 par lequel il laisse les membres profès libres de choisir un nouveau chef. Néanmoins, étant donnée l'impossibilité de réunir l'ensemble des électeurs, le comte Nicholas Soltykoff assure l'intérim de la charge.

...and many other pointers as well (such as the absence of any letters from Catherine to any of his other aliases in Paris) all lead to him being the same as "A.S.Stroganov"(who initiated Voltaire- and Franklin- to The Nine Muses according to "Grimm") also known as "ab Amiantho", of the Strict Observance.

In disguise but a true Czar (and beyond) nevertheless. 

   

In the meantime the original of above post has been modified (solving "Lambros Katsonis" mystery among others) as follows (complete text):

     Paul I’s assassination.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot has been written on the subject and it is more or less common knowledge that Paul never really accepted his problematic heritage and hated his mother for her “Saltycov” affair that brought him to life.

It would be therefore correct to assume that Paul as Tzar also attacked the specific members of Russian nobility that shared his secret and that his “Pauline law”-establishing the succession to the throne to the male hires of the Tzar- and his simultaneous attack on the “old aristocrats” were the basic motives of his murderers.

Paul’s reconciliation with Rome (Paul believed in the unification of the two churches and Pius VII had restored the Jesuit order in Russia following Paul’s written application, shortly before his murder) is furthermore an indication of his attempt to reconcile as well with France (at the time on their way to the Concordat, signed mid 1801, recognising Catholicism as the religion of the 'great majority' of the French people). This part of Paul’s foreign policy must have also seriously disturbed Jacobin plans at the time!

For these reasons our “hero” decided his son’s assassination and replacement by his grandson, Tzar Alexander I, the execution carried out by the known group of assassins, Platon Zubov, Pahlen, Benningsen,Kotchubey* and Paul Alexandrovich Stroganov, our heroe’s other son, the victim’s halfbrother and, according to some sources, leader of the group of assassins . (Paul had cancelled a previous 1800 assassination plan by expellling the conspirators from Russia, among them the british ambassador)

P.A.Stroganov, a Jacobin, member of the “Noeuf soeurs” and the Grand Orient of France (according to Oleg Platonov) , among Russia’s first ministers in 1802 (deputy minister under Kotchubey) is evidence of our heroe’s “strong allegiance” or even submission to the Jacobins and their “D’Orleans” link that enabled members of his family to safely return later to France, (among them propably Alexander I himself in 1825)..

Following a visit to London, P.A. Stroganov died suddenly 1817 on board a vessel bound for Copenhagen thus our hero’s “Stroganov” line came to an end (P.A.Stroganov’s own son was previously killed fighting Napoleon) but, considering his other “child producing” endeavours there was no lack of heirs, thus:

In 1828 a count Stroganov was granted a loan of 3.2 million rubbles (some 25 % of the sumtotal loans at the time by Krankin.
"The Modernisation of Russia, 1676-1825" By Simon Dixon p96)

And

A count Sergei Stroganov senator, member of the State Council, general-governor of Moscow, he owned 94000 adult male serfs and 1400000 hectares of land, *8.11.1794, +Stroganoff Palace 27.5.1882; m.1818 Css Natalia Pavlovna Stroganova (*1796 +1872)…

....appears to have awfully much in common with the "Saltycov branch"** of the family.


THE END

*Note: A mysterious character, this "Victor Kotchubey", highly talented and with a western lustre, he was russian ambassador to Constantinople 1796 or so(As "colonel Rooke", was there 1810, see footnotes 288,289 of J.C.Hobhaus diary at http://www.hobby-o.com/constantinople.php#fn288) , ie shortly after "Labros Katsonis's" aegean adventures. It's not just the latter's name, originally "Caccioni" (Gasparo Caccioni, an older music associate of Gioachino Cocchi) and "Canciani" (Giuessepe Canciani, cooperated with Gluck, founder of russian ballet) linking him to Saint Germain but his portrait too:
See and compare the portraits of Lambros and Victor on the web: The same face! (Victor's portrait at http://european-miniatures2.blogspot.com/ item 1042, Lambros's-by Johann Baptist Lampi, the same who portrayed Alexander S.Stroganov-at Wikipedia).
"Kotchubey" is also spelled "Kotsebu" in Odessa, Crimea (Odessa's second governor, around 1860-70, after Stroganov).

**Note: Equally mysterious, possibly another alias or son of "Saint Germain", is count Ivan Petrovich Saltykov who also had a part in Paul I's "removal".

P.S.

Present day descendants of the Cocchini family, residents of the “Grand Orient” and in “positions of authority”, are by themselves proof of the correctness of all above conclusions:

Placed on both sides of a potential future “hotspot” they seem to me as ready to stage another “opera buffa” which I have no interest whatsoever to witness.

Fortunately one side, “Moscau’s realtor”, is, as far as I am able to distinguish, a talented stage manager of Hesiod’s original “Prometheus bound” whereas the other side, “Bolek and Lolek” etc, are stuck on the disputed Aeschyllus version and while preparing their “Hermes" (agoraeus) part, they are also contemplating Pandora’s reintroduction (via the sea, as a victorious mermaid)!.

It’ll flop, trust me, I know, afterall I am greek!

Copy pasted from relevant side as above mentioned!

Paul I’s assassination.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A lot has been written on the subject and it is more or less common knowledge that Paul never really accepted his problematic heritage, never forgiving his mother for her “Saltycov” affair that brought him to life.

It would be therefore correct to assume that Paul as Tzar also attacked the specific members of Russian nobility that shared his secret and that his “Pauline law”, establishing the succession to the throne to the male hires of the Tzar, and his simultaneous attack on the “old aristocrats” were the basic motives of his murderers.

Paul’s reconciliation with Rome (Paul believed in the unification of the two churches and Pius VII had restored the Jesuit order in Russia following Paul’s written application, shortly before his murder) is furthermore an indication of his attempt to reconcile with France who was also at the time on their way to the Concordat (signed mid 1801, recognising Catholicism as the religion of the 'great majority' of the French people), a part of Paul’s foreign policy, must have also seriously disturbed Jacobin plans at the time.

For these reasons, our “hero” staged his son’s assassination and replacement by his grandson, Tzar Alexander I, the execution carried out by the known group of assassins, Platon Zubov, Pahlen, Coutchubey and Paul Alexandrovich Stroganov, our heroe’s other son, the victim’s halfbrother and, according to some sources, heading the group of assassins . (Paul had avoided a previous 1800 assassination plan by expellling the conspirators from Russia, among them the british ambassador)

P.A.Stroganov, a Jacobin, member of the “Noeuf soeurs” and the Grand Orient of France (Oleg Platonov) , among Russia’s first ministers in 1802 (deputy minister under Cotchubey) is evidence of our heroe’s-his father- “strong allegiance” or even submission to the Jacobins and their “D’Orleans” link that enabled them to safely return to Fance, among them propably Alexander I himself in 1825..

Following a visit to London, P.A. Stroganov died suddenly 1817 on board a vessel bound for Copenhagen thus our hero’s “Stroganov” line came to an end (P.A.Stroganov’s own son was previously killed fighting Napoleon) but considering our hero’s other “child producing” endeavours there was no lack of heirs, thus

In 1828 a count Stroganov was granted a loan of 3.2 million rubbles (some 25 % of the sumtotal loans at the time by Krankin.
"The Modernisation of Russia, 1676-1825" By Simon Dixon p96)

And

A count Sergei Stroganov senator, member of the State Council, general-governor of Moscow, he owned 94000 adult male serfs and 1400000 hectares of land, *8.11.1794, +Stroganoff Palace 27.5.1882; m.1818 Css Natalia Pavlovna Stroganova (*1796 +1872)…

....appears to have awfully much in common with the Saltycov branch of the family.


THE END

P.S Present day descendants of the Cocchini family, residents of the “Grand Orient” and in “positions of authority” are by themselves proof of the correctness of the above conclusions:

Placed on both sides of a potential future “hotspot” they seem to me as ready to stage another “opera buffa” which I have no interest whatsoever to witness.

Fortunately one side, “Moscau’s realtor”, is, as far as I am able to distinguish, a talented stage manager of Hesiod’s original “Prometheus bound” whereas the other side, “Bolek and Lolek”, are stuck on the disputed Aeschyllus version and while preparing their “Hermes" (agoraeus) part, they are also contemplating Pandora’s reintroduction .

It’ll flop, trust me, I know, afterall I am greek!

[Peter Saltycov]

According to "The Russian Empire in the Eighteenth Century By Aleksandr Kamenskiĭ, David Griffiths" p193 however it was Peter Saltycov who defeated the prussians at Kunersdorf.........

[being 'small, thin and with a sharp nose;]

To continue-and add to- Saint Germain's  "russian multiple personalities":
 
Paul I's paranoia (http://nationalism.org/patranoia/files/ragsdale-tsar-paul.pdf) may well be justified if the following persons surrounding him 
turn out to be one and the same:

a)Sergei Vasilievitch Saltykov (Paul’s father), who "was ambassador to Paris 1761-1762" (History of My Life By Giacomo Casanova, Willard R. Trask, p356) married 1750 to a “Matryona Pavlovna”.. ….
b) Peter Semen Saltycov, governor of Moscau (with whom Catherine corresponded in French).
and
c)Nikolai Ivanovitch Saltycov (Paul's tutor while he was in Elizabeth's care-who replaced N.Panin-Catherine’s spy, the general who previously defeated the Prussians, 1759).

the last "outlives" the others (who had to "die" for various reasons to long to explain) : 

Without doubt, the most formidable and impressive of Alexis’s close relatives was his grandfather General Nikolai Ivanovich Soltykoff (1736 - 1816) who became chairman of the war committee under Empress Catherine II and her son and heir Emperor Paul I, and later president of Council of the Empire and of the Board of Ministers and lastly Field Marshal of the Empire. After the wedding of Grand Duke Pavel (Paul) Petrovich son of Catherine II to Natalia Alekseyevna General Soltykoff was appointed by Catherine II to run their small household. In 1795, at the age of 59 he was described as a being 'small, thin and with a sharp nose; a very devout man who spent a long time each morning at his prayers; he wore a high, powdered and pomaded toupet and had a limp; and constantly pulled up his breeches'.[2] As an example of his commanding influence, when Catherine (The Great) had a stroke in 1796 and her grandson Alexander arrived at the Winter Palace, he was not allowed to see her for several hours. Count Saltykov - 'first personage' of Catherine’s court - had feared that Alexander may try to proclaim himself Tsar. At 5pm he gave permission. She died the next evening.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Dmitriyevich_Saltykov

Count-General Nikolai, head of the Malta knights of Russia, the same who:

Au décès de Paul Ier, en 1801, son fils Alexandre Ier de Russie, conscient de cette irrégularité, décide de rétablir les anciens us et coutumes de l'Ordre catholique des Hospitaliers[1], par un édit du 16 mars 1801 par lequel il laisse les membres profès libres de choisir un nouveau chef. Néanmoins, étant donnée l'impossibilité de réunir l'ensemble des électeurs, le comte Nicholas Soltykoff assure l'intérim de la charge.

BTW there is a relative post in here (by Dr Richard Walding,Research Fellow,Griffith University, Australia) that has been left unattended for quite a while. 

Will do, soon as my findings are disputed quoting more reliable sources. 

For instance, do you know the family link between Mme Blavatsky and Sergei Witte and the latter's "greek" descendants?