The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum

That was a private visit. Count Alfred Potocki of Łańcut - one of the wealthiest man in prewar Poland  - send a private invitation to Their Majesties King George VI and Queen Elizabeth, but they were too busy, so Duke and Duchess of Kent came to Poland instead of the royal couple. Besides Łańcut and Kraków, they also visited Katowice, where lived Zofia Poklewska Koziełł - a friend of the Duchess, which she knew from the time when she lived in Paris.

I found the same clip on British Pathe:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/duke-and-duchess-of-kent-in-poland

Polish monarchists wanted to make Duke Of Kent King Of Poland:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/68442639

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/57632195

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2810551

Zofia and her family including her aged mother Baroness de Stockel later made their home in a cottage at Coppins...

That was a private visit. Count Alfred Potocki of Łańcut - one of the wealthiest man in prewar Poland  - send a private invitation to Their Majesties King George VI and Queen Elizabeth, but they were too busy, so Duke and Duchess of Kent came to Poland instead of the royal couple. Besides Łańcut and Kraków, they also visited Katowice, where lived Zofia Poklewska Koziełł - a friend of the Duchess, which she knew from the time when she lived in Paris.

I found the same clip on British Pathe:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/duke-and-duchess-of-kent-in-poland

Polish monarchists wanted to make Duke Of Kent King Of Poland:

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/68442639

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/57632195

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2810551

Alfred Potocki wrote fascinating memoird "Master of Lancut" .His flight from Lancut just before the Soviet arrival was legendary...taking with him via Vienna to Vaduz over 60 railway cars of the amazing contents of the castle. Alfreds mother "Betka" nee Princess Elisabeth Radziwill was the hostess during the visit.

He was on a offical visit to the small town of Kirkby Lonsdale (about 14 miles from my home) where I have business interests.We were told before hand that a certain number of people would be introduced apart from the local town council etc. He was utterly charming to all...the children,the local brass band etc etc

I was very lucky enough to be introduced to Prince Charles on Thursday.
We spoke for several minutes and I found him witty and very interesting....at the end of our conversation I made so bold as to compliment him on seeming so content and happy these days.

I think the emeralds did not became part of Queen Sophie's collection because she simply never wore them. If it was up to her, she would not have given Elisabetta any jewels. That was the gripe that Missy had with Sophie. But after the death of Queen Olga, King George II inherited the emeralds from his grandmother and presented them to Queen Elisabetta (remember Queen Sophie was still alive then) , who at first wore them as bandeau, but later as the double E motif was in place when she either sold or gave them to Queen Frederica who wore them often.

You THINK...but you cannot prove that Sophie never had the emeralds in her hands....and we know all about the gripe between Marie and Sophie...one of the reasons Marie was angry was that Sophie still had all her gems (emeralds included) and Maries were lost in Russia.

I don't think they could take very much with them. From what I know they left in quite a hurry, so beyond personal items and jewellery and what was in the palace safe, I would imagine they left with very little. Of course it would be very interesting to find out exactly how they managed to get the jewellery out, remembering that each piece was probably in a presentation case, thus increasing the bulk. Perhaps it was literally thrown in a suitcase before they left for the airport. But then the Greek Royal Family, given the historical insecurity of their position, would, I imagine, have had an "escape" plan. I also wonder if they had to leave any jewellery behind ? From all accounts they did not take silver, furniture or paintings when they left, I think this is made obvious by the subsequent legal battles King Constantine had to endure to regain his property. One can only imagine the anxiety and humiliation he had to go through.
 
A great deal of mystery surrounds the Greek Royal family, and the strange "on, off"  relationship the Greeks have had with them since their inception.
I don't think we will ever find out..............but I remain intrigued by that tiara !!!           

The gems were no doubt taken out by the Danish embassy who had very close ties with the royal family for many generations.The Danish embassy had also taken many of the same gems out of Russia for Queen Olga 50 years earlier!

I think they traveled with their jewelery. Queen Olga of Greece had all of her jewels in tact and willed them to her grandchildren. That was why Queen Sophie of Greece never got to wear her mother-in-law's fabulous emerald collection. It was left to George II and he gave them to his wife Elisabetta to wear. These were later either sold or returned to George II's successor, King Paul of Greece. Queen Frederica also bought back the ruby parure (also once owned by Queen Olga) from Princess Paul of Yugoslavia. The ruby and emerald set were constantly worn by the Queen and her daughter-in-law until her death. It was then the big tiara began to appear to be missing and fueling speculation. Glad its reappearance squashed the rumors that it had been sold. As for the China & Silver, there was quite a bit being sold in Greece from the collection in Tatoi. 

Prince Christopher of Greece mentions how his mother Queen Olga presented the emeralds circa 1914 as a silver wedding present to her eldest son Constantine and his wife Sophie...whatever the reason why we have no proof Sophie actually wore them (as opposed to owned them) is because she may not have had occasion due to the immediate war and then their  exile.Perhaps Sophie didnt like emeralds and preferred the wonderful diamond tiaras,pearls and turquoises already in her collection.This subject has already been discussed long ago on this very site.

I enjoyed the book very much.

Helen did not wear the long diamond chain that belonged to Missy (but Anne did) so I assume that was left to King Michael directly.

Helen did wear the Cartier chain at the festivities around the Royal wedding in in London 1947.There is a picture of her and her sister Irene leaving their hotel resplendent for a evening gala'

She knows that she is "The most photographed woman in the world"  why would she go out partially naked.  Prince William knew how much his mother suffered in the press, he should have known better and told her to put some clothes on.

I could not agree more.

Sad to hear of Princess Ragnhild's death.May she rest in peace.

Do you know if Nadejda Vladimirovna Stenbok-Fermova was the daughter of [Count/Duke?] Stenbok-Fermor?

Count Stenbok- Fermor
1: http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/tchaikov.htm
2: http://www.russojapanesewar.com/russcav.html
3: http://www.vers.miel.spb.ru/eng/history.php

I can't help noticing a similarity in the names - Stenszinski (now STEN), Frelov and Stenbok-Fermova. According to source 3 above Stenbok is of Swedish origin (Scandinavian)

quote: "Swedish general Stenbok (count Magnus, 1664 - 1717) took part in North War and assisted to the victory of Swedes under Narva. His posterities settled in Estlyandia (nowdays - Estoniya)"

It's all very teasing...     It's like being on the other side of the looking glass, there seems to be some connections there but it's possibly another family, like mine is a roughly remembered copy of someone elses - why? no why to be told....

Nadejda was indeed by birth  a birth a Countess S-E.Her stepmother who died in 1916 was the Dowager Empresses mistress of the robes.

I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

There will be more information on Countess Alexandra in the genelogical books by Jacques Ferrand....especially the one on the Counts of the Empire.
I do not have a copy but if memory serves me right Alexandra may have died in New York city circa 1968.
Count Alexander was one of the 2 sons of Count Nicholas Fersen (who died in Rome in 1920) and his wife nee Princess Olga Doulgoruky.The couple probably were in the Crimea together and evacuated by the british and french ships in April 1919. Countess Alexandra may have been with her mother and sisters who were housed at Alupka the famed estate of her maternal grandmother Countess "Lily" Vorontsov Dashkov (nee Shouvalova) or with her Wiazemsky/Wassiltchikov in laws (her first husbands sister Lydia had married Prince Ilarion Wiazemsky) who left on the Princess Ena.
Her future husband may have left on the Grafton with his mother and sisters (his father and his maternal grandmother left on the Marlborough).His brother Count Paul Fersen certainly departed in April 1919 as the following month in Genoa he married another of the Marlborough passengers Baroness Marie de Staal.
Alexandra was one of three first cousins (all granddaughters of Count Ilarion and Countess Elisabeth Vorontsov-Dashkov)married to three Wiazemsky brothers. Only the youngest survived.

Count Nicholas Fersen died in Rome on 3/11/1921.His wife Sophia Alexandrovna nee Princess Doulgoruky died in Rome on 3/11/1957 having outlived both their sons and their elder daughter.

I wonder if anyone can clarify the Schouvaloff link for me.  I note the above comment that Elizaveta Schouvaloff nee Baryatinsky was childless, but I had thought she married Count Paul Schouvaloff, and had a daughter Alexandra.  This Alexandra Schouvaloff married Prince Wiasemsky and then (as a widow) Count Alexander Fersen.  The 1920 London marriage certificate for the second marriage gives the fathers as Count Nicholas Fersen and Count Paul Schouvaloff (deceased).  I wonder if I am muddling my Count Schouvaloffs.  (I should also be interested to know more about the marriage witnesses: Lucy Beatrice King and Dorothy Cursons.)  Thank you.

There will be more information on Countess Alexandra in the genelogical books by Jacques Ferrand....especially the one on the Counts of the Empire.
I do not have a copy but if memory serves me right Alexandra may have died in New York city circa 1968.
Count Alexander was one of the 2 sons of Count Nicholas Fersen (who died in Rome in 1920) and his wife nee Princess Olga Doulgoruky.The couple probably were in the Crimea together and evacuated by the british and french ships in April 1919. Countess Alexandra may have been with her mother and sisters who were housed at Alupka the famed estate of her maternal grandmother Countess "Lily" Vorontsov Dashkov (nee Shouvalova) or with her Wiazemsky/Wassiltchikov in laws (her first husbands sister Lydia had married Prince Ilarion Wiazemsky) who left on the Princess Ena.
Her future husband may have left on the Grafton with his mother and sisters (his father and his maternal grandmother left on the Marlborough).His brother Count Paul Fersen certainly departed in April 1919 as the following month in Genoa he married another of the Marlborough passengers Baroness Marie de Staal.
Alexandra was one of three first cousins (all granddaughters of Count Ilarion and Countess Elisabeth Vorontsov-Dashkov)married to three Wiazemsky brothers. Only the youngest survived.

I've been a forum member for about five years now.  As you all can see, I rarely post.  But I read….a lot.  I've learned who is a fan of Prince Albert Victor, Vicky, Grand Duchess Ella.  I've learned who loves Queen Mary and who doesn’t. I’ve also learned that the majority of the members are very well read, informed and some are indeed authors themselves. This is my opportunity to say “thank you” to you all.  You welcome all discussions, whether the member has a difference of opinion or not.  I am grateful that if someone posts a statement as fact, the only thing other members ask is that it be verified.  To me, this is the true definition of “intelligent discussion.” And I do so enjoy it.  I will admit to sometimes being intimidated by the level of knowledge here.  Which is probably the main reason I don’t post much, but I do try to check my facts or read the old threads to see if the topic has been addressed elsewhere.

Unfortunately, I have also learned there are some members who post just to be posting, who rarely check their facts and like to spread gossip or rumors and some who just seem to pull things out of thin air.  Luckily this is the minority.

Now, back to the jewels.  Please forgive me if I’ve missed this, and if it has been discussed before if someone would be kind enough to point me in that direction..but do we know if Catherine received some jewels as wedding gifts from others outside the RF, like the beautiful necklaces the Duchess of Cornwall received for her wedding?

Thank you all……I am honored to be a member.

Lily it is a honour to read yr posts and those of  many other informed members of this forum.