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Messages - edubs31

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2731
I share mine with the King, Elvis Presley



Happy belated birthday Ivan! Elvis is the only person we dare to refer to as a "King" in the States...although the Kennedy's are often treated like our version of the Royal Family, lol.

2732
Whenever I think about this (and I do and have for many years) I always think in terms of being an advisor to Nicholas, but in no way trying to prevent him from marrying Alexandra. Maybe just send back a "black ops" team to eliminate Rasputin and Lenin years before they interact with Nicholas II.

However, I always wonder just how far back I would go to change things.  For example, do we prevent Alexander III from dying at the age of 49 and thereby give Nicholas a lot more time to learn his job?  Do we prevent the assassination of Alexander II and so allow for his reforms and his constitutional reforms to become reality which would then change Alexander III's view of being Tsar? Or do we simply prevent Nixa from dying of meningitis and therefore allow Dagmar to marry him and not his brother which would mean there would be no Nicholas, Alexandra, OTMA or Alexei?

Personally I wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize the existence of OTMAA who are as important to me (symbolically and otherwise) as the welfare of the Russia state at large. Even subtle acts before their births could have produced something of a butterfly effect...think Marty McFly in the simple act of merely pushing his father out of the way of the car in "Back to the Future" and inadvertently putting wheels in motion that would prevent he and his siblings from ever being born.

Basically I wouldn't touch a thing until at least after Alexei was born in 1904, and would like to wait a few years after that to the let children develop further and the family dynamic settle in...of course I'm also aware that the longer you'd wait to intervene the less chance you'd have of affecting positive change. Obviously the easiest way to have rid the Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Amin, etc, factions from the world would be to keep their parents from meeting or marrying. This being far more palatable to me than being forced with the dilemma of killing them in their youth, as an example.

2733
Before firing up my time machine, I'd get some books and videos about the Romanovs (Fate Of The Romanovs among them) before heading back.  That way, I'd have proof to back up what I say when I tell Nicholas:  "You have to make some serious changes or this is whats gonna happen to you and your family."  Maybe I would take along some medication for Alexei (for his hemophilia) that didn't exist back then.

Yeah sounds good, I mean whatever your particular fantasy/alternative universe entails. I guess it would make sense for me to have a crash course in everything Russia before sent on my journey back through time. But remember this particular dream of mine is sort of combination of the present day me with a Russia born (or speaking at least) person of exceptional talents alive some 97-years ago. I'd possess fuzzy knowledge of events unfolding but wouldn't know the exact fate of the Romanov's, or that of our country. My persuasive skills would be put to the ultimate test...good thing I'm salesperson for a living!

I wouldn't have supernatural powers other than the mystical ability to see future events in a rather shadowy and sometimes unclear way. A sort of real world equivalent of a Star Wars "disturbance in the force" type of telepathy, lol. I'm my fantasy I cannot bring back books, medicine, Iphones, etc because I exist only in the spiritual 2012 not the material one...it would be cool to know some songs I like though. Maybe I could have invented rock and roll with the Russian Orchestra decades before the mid-50s :-)

2734
Why thank you :-) Happy to be here!

2735
Lots of famous people born on all of our birthdays for certain. Just check out Wikipedia quickly, they do a good job listing births, deaths and major events. I'm November 2nd

Marie Antoinette born 11/2/1755: "Let them eat cake"
Erik born 11/2/1980: "Tell them to get their own damn cake, it's MY birthday!" :-)

Two President's were born on November 2nd. The highly underrated James K. Polk "Mr. Manifest Destiny" & Warren G. Harding who died in office and is known more for the scandals surrounding him and his Presidency than for any of his legislative accomplishments.

Lastly, and on something of a dour note, Russia declared war on the Ottoman Empire on this day in 1914. One of a number of likely ill fated decisions from the outset of World War I...

2736
I like it! A little nit-picking, however. I would certainly encourage Nicholas to become a constitutional monarch like George V, reminding him that Britain was also a great industrial power. The British monarch is, of course, also Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces, whose members owe direct allegiance to him or her.

Erik, would you be able to get into the position of marrying Olga? I think the trusted confidant would have to be in a position something like that of Vassili Dolgoruky, who was, I understand, the same age as Nicholas and a companion since his youth. In his position, I would tell Nicholas in no uncertain terms that Rasputin had to go!

As a Brit and a monarchist, I would say that an effective constitutional monarchy is the thing to aim for, not a republic.

Ann



Thanks for the thoughtful response Ann!

I think I agree with your point about a more logical and seamless transition to constitutional monarchy would be a better proposal than moving to a Republic. I'm of course speaking from my own American bias here, and the desire to see world powers function more like we do, but would never claim this is what "should" happen. In a way I was attempting to blend American-centrist republican values with some remaining provisional power by the Tsar and his autocracy. That's why I attempted to offer him up a deal of immunity, ability to wage war and dictate the declaration thereof, and also have the power to control certain aspects of the democratic rule of the Duma...allowing him to call for special elections each year, in an attempt to change the body and structure of the institution, rather than allowing him to dissolve it outright. Nepotism would remain as well, and should Alexei had survived (which he doesn't here, sadly, in my little fantasy) his royal blood line would have assumed the now reduced powers of the throne without question.

I was also thinking about what it would take to pacify and ultimately decrease the power of the Bolsheviks and Marxism. I'm not certain a Constitutional Monarchy would do the trick. Something tells me the radical elements of the revolution would still consider this to be, as they considered most previous reforms, little more than a half measure. Not getting more of what they want might do little to slow the movement and the fate of the Romanov's and Russian empire might have remained the same (perhaps just delayed by a few years). What do you think?

As for you other questions, lol, yeah I mean we are clearly suspending some reality here. But for the practical implications of the exercise I think if I were able to clear other hurdles (like possessing my fatalist sixth sense, being able to make it into the Tsar's inner circle, speak multiple languages including Russian, etc) I'm sure marrying Olga would seem like a piece of cake by comparison, haha! The Dolgoruky approach makes more sense, but I guess I'm still looking to position myself as a worldly and exceptional younger man (early-30s) that wowed the Tsar with his intellect much in the same way Rasputin wowed the Empress with his bullshit mysticism :-)

Or...maybe I'm just time warped there by God for the specific purpose of saving the family and changing the course of political/social history in Russia. If the good Lord wants to take me away from my life and loved one's here in 2012 he'd do well to make it worth my while! I don't think the opportunity to marry into royalty (and a beautiful intelligent woman) is too much to bargain for ;-)

2737
Having Fun! / Re: What Ifs or Alternate Histories
« on: January 26, 2012, 09:45:39 AM »
Here's another alternate history scenario: in 1908, a mysterious explosion occurred deep in Siberia, today known as the Tunguska Event. Had the event occurred about 4 hours later, the explosion would have completely destroyed St. Petersburg due to the earth's rotation (if you look at a map, you can see the Event and St. Petersburg are along the same axis). What would have happened?

I did a search on the Tunguska Event in the forum, and people have not discussed this aspect of the topic. And to be honest, I did not read the 23 pages of this thread, so I hope posting this theory isn't completely out of the blue. But it IS a What If and Alternate History thread...

Very interesting! I'll have to read and do a little more research on this...then speculate on an alternate ending.

2738
Having Fun! / Re: What do you think if NAOTMAA were around today
« on: January 26, 2012, 09:42:45 AM »
-Olga would have studied, and possibily woudln't marry.
-Tatiana would have been , as she was, a perfect lady of high society. The better dressed, the better good looking. She would perhaps marry a succeful doctor or some important person. She would have done many charitable activities.

- Maria would have married a nice, commoner man. Whoever he was. And of course, have lots of children. She would have been a modern girl, but kind and clumsy as she was in the 1900.

-Anastasia? She would have been the rebel one! The young girl that has not affraid to said what she exactly thinks in the face of anyone. Perhaps she would have divorced many times, as Elizabeth Taylor. ..And maybe she would also have been an actress! She was very talented for that...

-Alexei...He was too young to imagine what could he have become. He was an average boy, so he would have been an average boy today. Of course, his life would be more easy. Factor VIII would have help him a lot. Harry Potter? No; I don't think he would like the personnage. Well...Maybe it's me who don't like those books.  ;D

RealAnastasia.

I couldn't agree more with this! Right down to your point about Anastasia being a rebellious actress...with class though I would surmise, not trashy modern Hollywood style.

I'm going to take small exception to the idea, put forth by some of you in this thread, that suggests the conservative values of Alexandra and Nicholas would have forbade their children from interacting too much in society. "Conservativism" is a perspective, just as liberalism is. I'm talking socially here much more so than politically. What would be deemed as middle of the road values decades ago (I'm talking from an American perspective here) looks extremely to many of us now. Culture in free societies tends to becomes more liberalized as the years pass. This is not without some struggle and resistance of course, and there are some people who do a pretty good job of locking themselves away from the outside world and resting on their laurels. With that said, what do we see in modern culture? So called "conservatives" drink, carouse, curse, break rules and listen to rock and roll just the same as their more self described "liberal" brethren.

I find it unlikely that the general liberalized tone of society wouldn't effect the Romanov family to some degree, even Alexandra. As little girls I think there would be strong similarities between, say, the Romanov children in the early 1900s and if they were around in the early 2000s. By the time each reach adolescence you would surely start seeing a divergence however...but later teen years and adulthood there would likely be legitimate differences between a 1918-Beyond OTMAA and the 2012 version, royalty or not...

2739
Having Fun! / Re: Favorites and Least Favorites
« on: January 26, 2012, 09:06:01 AM »
Due to her influence in my life the obvious choice is Anastasia. After all, it was the mystery surrounding her possible escape and survival that drew me to the Romanov's and the history of the Russian empire in the first place. I almost have to refuse picking a "favorite" though, at least amongst the sisters and Alexei. Just so much to love and admire about all of them, and their personalities were all so unique...flies right in the face of eventual communist USSR and what was almost an intentional commitment by the government to create citizens as carbon copies of each other...lifeless, faceless, drones.

One thing that continues to intrigue me about Anastasia though is how "modern" a child she seemed to be. I think if the who family had been time warped to 2012 it would Anastasia that would have the easiest, most seamless transition. There is just something about her adorable, prankster, almost diva-esque personality that, while not necessarily possessing as laudable of personality traits as some of her other family members, seems perfectly suited to the world of today. She reminds me of my niece Tarah (or perhaps I should say Tarah reminds me of Anastasia) who I adore and find as hysterical as I do precious...God bless them both!

2740
Having Fun! / Re: The Prettiest/Handsomest/Cutest/Most Beautiful
« on: January 25, 2012, 11:14:20 PM »
I sort of agree with the sentiment that Maria sort of gets lost in the shuffle, sadly. Possibly middle child syndrome. She's darling cute much like Anastasia but possesses more natural beauty. I think we can all mostly agree on the fact that all four daughters were absolutely beautiful both inside and out and yet they all had their own unique set of personality traits to go along with distinct physical features. Judging their looks alone I'm going to categorize them in three life stages (should have been many more of course).

Cutest Baby/Toddler
1) Anastasia
2) Maria
3) Olga
4) Tatiana

Prettiest Girl
1) Olga
2) Anastasia
3) Maria
4) Tatiana

Most beautiful young lady
1) Tatiana
2) Olga
3) Maria
4) Anastasia

Anna was a doll baby and cute as a button as a little girl. She was also a pretty young lady, who sadly we didn't see develop into adulthood, but just not as attractive as her sisters...beautiful just the same though. Olga was a real stunner as a girl and a beautiful young woman. Tatiana's more exotic look doesn't translate quite as well for me in her youth, albeit certainly cute, but as an adult she was a divine beauty! Maria on the other hand has a more conventional and timeless pretty girl next door appeal. I also think she was the "physically/developmentally" consistent of the sisters. Alas I hate to choose between and adore them all, but for the sake of making lists...

2741
Sounds good, thanks :-)

2742

How do I become part of the inner circle? We can play this one up from any number of angles but I’m going with the “trusted son-in-law” approach. I’m in my 30s now and marry the beautiful Olga (at this point around the age of 20). Good work if you can get it! This would help ensure the loyalty of at least one member of the Royal family. The Tsar, who naturally I would have had to impress to receive his blessing and the hand of his eldest daughter, holds me not only as family but a confidant…someone who challenges his perceptions while giving due respect to his rule. I quickly become to the Tsar what the deplorable Rasputin has become to the Empress.

What are the circumstances? The year is 1915 and Russia is in the midst of an unpopular World War I all the while the seeds of revolution are now in full bloom. Nicholas is distraught, confused and ineffectual. I don’t possess the clairvoyant knowledge that he will be deposed, imprisoned and murdered (along with his family) in just three years time but I do have something of a fatalist sixth sense that convinces me the Tsar will not sit long on the throne and that the lives of his family are also in jeopardy. For one reason or another, possibly attributing my knowledge to a mysticism similar to that which Alexandra believes Rasputin possesses, the Czar grants me full counsel.

What exactly would I recommend? Hard as it is for him to swallow I manager to convince the Tsar of his impending doom should he not institute swift reforms. I encourage him to look beyond his borders and see the progress of the western industrial world and how it has grown from largely autocratic monarchies to democratic republics. Here are some key recommendations that I feel the Czar would have little choice but to not take me up on…
  • Using his first cousin King George V as a prime example I convince Nicholas to cede unprecedented power to the Duma he had established a decade earlier, but had expressed incredulity toward. The Duma would secure the right to elect all members of its chambers through a democratic process, instead of just half as it currently constituted, and void of Tsarist interference.
    -  Tsar Nicholas would accept having no power to dissolve the Duma but could call for once a year elections that would allow the citizens to elect new representation should the Tsar himself declare “no confidence” in the decision making ability in the current body.
    Nicholas would reduce his control of the Orthodox Church and permit, without exception, religious freedom within Russia with the understanding that Orthodox Christianity would be the official state sponsored religion (this takes an important step towards future religious freedom in full while allowing the Tsar to save some face for the time being).
    -  Ceding much of his power to the Duma voluntarily would be a significant step aimed at appealing the more moderate revolutionaries of the “Constitutional Democratic Party” and systematically assisting in the ascension of their power. This would not only create an alliance between Tsar-Duma-Democrats, and against the rising tide of Bolshevik rebellion, but a strengthening trust between the Tsar himself and the common citizens.
    -  To pacify the conservative and proud Nicholas and those who still believed in autocratic authority the Tsar would not have to relinquish all powers nor would he be reduced to a symbolic figurehead. His role would reflect that of an American President, but one placed in an even greater position of power. For example the Tsar would remain Commander in Chief of the military and have the power to both declare and end war, yet the Duma would balance those powers by controlling whether the Tsar had an army of men to call on in the first place. It would be the Duma, not the Tsar who raises money and man power in support of the military.
    -  With the “Constitutional Democrats” likely in power, at least from the outset of the political realignment, a new monetary system would be established and take effect once signed into law by the Tsar. I would encourage Nicholas to appoint a special group of advisors (ie, cabinet) with the purpose of reigning in wasteful spending and get control over the horrid state of monetary inflation that was gripping Russia during this time period.
    -  The Tsar having acquiesced to the above changes also secures immunity, for he and his extended family, from any type of prosecution for crimes against the state and its citizens already committed. None of the Romanov’s stand trial for accused misdeeds…a tough pill to swallow for some but a necessary bargaining chip. Further the Tsar does not have to relinquish his personal wealth and the Royal Family secures a “Crown Estate” at the Alexander Palace in Tsarskoye Selo. No other palaces will be constructed or maintained at the burden of the Russia tax payer however.
   
What's the end result of my influence? The Romanov family likely survives political retribution and the powers of the Czar are greatly curbed, yet not completely dismantled. The Russian economy stabilizes and democratic values, having been instituted under political pressure and the need to stem the tide of revolution against the Bolshevik takeover, merge with traditional autocratic authority creating a nation-state not unlike that of England. The Bolshevik radicals severely outnumbered and having suddenly lost political power, as well as popular appeal from a now largely appeased citizenry, tone down their rhetoric in the ensuing years. The otherwise bloody reign of communism within the Soviet Union never takes shape and the “socialists”, composing a minority of legislative power in the Duma, push for progressive reforms in a far more peaceful manner.

Nicholas is hailed as a reformer and humble leader in his homeland and historians are left scrambling as they wrestle with a mass of contradictions between the submissive, inept, and often brutal leader of his youth, coupled with the progressive elder statesmen that brought the forces of peace and democracy to his country. Alexei crippled by his torturous hemophilia likely does not live long into adulthood, sadly passing away prior to his father and leaving no clear blood line to the reduced powers of the throne. Nicholas then names me, his son-in-law Erik, as his successor. I go on to reduce the political power of Tsar even further and by the time my reign ends in the 1960s (wife Olga and her beautiful sisters by my side of course!) Russia is a full on Democratic Republic, adhering to capitalist principles, and having elected its first President!

Saving the world is nice :-)

2743
So I had a vivid dream the other night, one I’m sure many of you have had, that I was a prominent figure living during the events leading up to the Russian Revolution. As dreams go it wasn’t an entirely cohesive story but when I awoke the next day it got me thinking…If I were an advisor to Tsar Nicholas what advice would I had given before he lost his country and then his life?

As someone fascinated by the 19th and early-20th century events in Russia and with a particularly obsession (and affection) for the Royal family I’ve naturally always wondered what could have been or done to alter the path of events that conspired to end the lives of the Tsar and his family and plunge his country into Communism.

Imagine for a moment, perhaps in the spirit of the Alexander Palace “Time Machine”, you had either traveled back or were simply alive and a member of the Czar’s inner circle. That you either knew then what you know now or were somehow gifted with some type of ability to see the future and the events that would lead to the Romanov’s and Imperial Russia’s demise. In other words, imagine that you were the counterpoint to Grigori Rasputin and had the ear of the Czar and his family. Here is my little fairytale of “what ifs”. What would yours be?

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