Author Topic: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days  (Read 146546 times)

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Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2004, 02:14:28 PM »
I wonder if Ioann's "archaic" name was a reflection of the Russian taste for old Muscovite names in the period of his birth. There was a fad in Russia for very Slavic-sounding names in the late nineteenth, early twentieth centuries - Viacheslav, Tatiana, Liudmila, Sviatoslav, etc. It was a sign of patriotism. Nicholas II followed the current fashion in the naming of his own children.
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Offline Svetabel

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2004, 02:55:28 PM »
Gavriil Konstantinovitch in his memoirs called constantly his elder brother Ioann as "Ioannchik" (little Ioann) - it was his pet name  :)

Offline Teddy

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2004, 07:51:36 AM »
In many families is the tradition that the newborn baby with the one on the photograph goes to who that have been named., .  Its there photographs known?  

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2004, 03:09:55 PM »
Like all Orthodox Christians, the members of the Imperial Family were named for Saints in the Orthodox Calendar.

Nicholas for St Nicholas of Myra (who has since morphed into Santa Claus in the West) Dec 6/19

Alexandra for St Alexandra the martyr - wife of Emperor Diocletian of Rome who started an extremely bloody persecution of Christians - Alexandra was converted by the sufferings and martyrdom of St George, and if my memory serves me correctly is celebrated on the same day: Apr 23/May 6

Olga for St Olga equal to the Apostles 11/24 July. A Kievan-Rus princess who became Christian. Grandmother (I think) of St Vladimir who baptised the Russian people.

Tatiana for the Martyr St Tatiana of Rome 12/25 January

Maria for St Mary Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles
22 July/4 Aug. The idea that she was a prostitute is a later western mediaeval notion, not found in Orthodox tradition.

Anastasia for (I think) Martyr Anastasia of Rome 29 Oct/
11 November. There are 4 other Anastasias from the early days of the Church, and it could be for any of them she is named, I am not sure off-hand. If anyone knows GD Anastasia's name day, then I could check and find out which St Anastasia she is named for. Anastasia is the feminine form of the Greek word for Resurrection, which is what her name means.

Alexei for (I think, but can't remember of hand) St Alexis the Wonderworker, Metropolitan of Moscow 12/25 Feb. He is also celebrated on 5/18 Oct with other Metropolitans of Moscow who have been glorified.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2004, 04:58:08 PM »
Quote
Like all Orthodox Christians, the members of the Imperial Family were named for Saints in the Orthodox Calendar.

Nicholas for St Nicholas of Myra (who has since morphed into Santa Claus in the West) Dec 6/19

Alexandra for St Alexandra the martyr - wife of Emperor Diocletian of Rome who started an extremely bloody persecution of Christians - Alexandra was converted by the sufferings and martyrdom of St George, and if my memory serves me correctly is celebrated on the same day: Apr 23/May 6

Olga for St Olga equal to the Apostles 11/24 July. A Kievan-Rus princess who became Christian. Grandmother (I think) of St Vladimir who baptised the Russian people.

Tatiana for the Martyr St Tatiana of Rome 12/25 January

Maria for St Mary Magdalene, Apostle to the Apostles
22 July/4 Aug. The idea that she was a prostitute is a later western mediaeval notion, not found in Orthodox tradition.

Anastasia for (I think) Martyr Anastasia of Rome 29 Oct/
11 November. There are 4 other Anastasias from the early days of the Church, and it could be for any of them she is named, I am not sure off-hand. If anyone knows GD Anastasia's name day, then I could check and find out which St Anastasia she is named for. Anastasia is the feminine form of the Greek word for Resurrection, which is what her name means.

Alexei for (I think, but can't remember of hand) St Alexis the Wonderworker, Metropolitan of Moscow 12/25 Feb. He is also celebrated on 5/18 Oct with other Metropolitans of Moscow who have been glorified.


Well that all makes perfect sense to me.  I could never really get my head arond the Onegin association for the choice of Olga and Tatiana as names; after all it isn't really a positive exploration of the relationship between two sisters.............................
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Offline Janet_W.

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2004, 05:41:24 PM »
Right! Nicholas remarked that they had now an Olga and a Tatiana, as in the Onegin play, but he wasn't saying they had named their daughters that way on purpose . . . it was just a coincidence. Olga was called thus because it was an ancient Russian name that Nicholas and Alexandra both agreed upon, and (I suspect) because they were both very fond of his younger sister.  Tatiana received her name because Nicholas and Alexandra liked the Onegin play, and Tatiana is the winsome and principled heroine of that play. But the Olga character of that play is purely perhipheral.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Janet_W. »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2004, 07:08:16 PM »
Quote
Tatiana is not only the Greek "fairy queen" of Shakespeare, etc,
 but also a  martyr saint of both the Eastern & Western churches. Her day is 12 Jan. I suppose that depends on which calendar one follows.
 This might make one think of what the parents were thinking,a proud, healthy daughter....fantasy & martyr.
. In my experience, it is not a very common name given in Orthodox families.
 Before anyone  jumps on me, I said -"in my experience"
I would think that all the daughters wre named after relatives & saints.

The fairy queen is called Titania and not Tatiana. The former is the female variant of Titan. Tatiana is not ethymologically related to that.
In a world of misinformation, I would like to ask our dear members not to speculate if they do not know something for a fact. And if they do so at least mention that it is not backed by any proof.
Olga was named after a Russian saint who, as Robert just mentioned, was apparently an early Russian convert. Tatiana was most likely suggested by the Pushkin poem. But it was chosen because it was a very popular name among middle and lower classes but not at all current in the royal family and high nobility. So it was a gesture by Nicholas and Alix of recognizing that fact. I can't comment on the names of Maria and Anastasia. Alexei was named after Nicholas' favorite Tsar Alexei the Mild. He liked and respected his gentle ancestor, but also wanted to break the chain of Nicholases and Alexanders which had exclusively dominated the entire 19th century, out of pure accident in fact, but nevertheless it was so.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline Martyn

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #37 on: December 23, 2004, 04:03:29 AM »
Quote
The fairy queen is called Titania and not Tatiana. The former is the female variant of Titan. Tatiana is not ethymologically related to that.
In a world of misinformation, I would like to ask our dear members not to speculate if they do not know something for a fact. And if they do so at least mention that it is not backed by any proof.
Olga was named after a Russian saint who, as Robert just mentioned, was apparently an early Russian convert. Tatiana was most likely suggested by the Pushkin poem. But it was chosen because it was a very popular name among middle and lower classes but not at all current in the royal family and high nobility. So it was a gesture by Nicholas and Alix of recognizing that fact. I can't comment on the names of Maria and Anastasia. Alexei was named after Nicholas' favorite Tsar Alexei the Mild. He liked and respected his gentle ancestor, but also wanted to break the chain of Nicholases and Alexanders which had exclusively dominated the entire 19th century, out of pure accident in fact, but nevertheless it was so.


Oh come on, let's not stifle people's thoughts and ideas.  The whole point is that those who do have the information can share it with those that would like it.  Sometimes it is quite interesting to read the connections that people try to make in order to make sense of something.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Sarai

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #38 on: December 23, 2004, 09:41:04 AM »
Quote
Oh come on, let's not stifle people's thoughts and ideas.  The whole point is that those who do have the information can share it with those that would like it.  Sometimes it is quite interesting to read the connections that people try to make in order to make sense of something.


I agree, I think asking that people only post something that they absolutely know is correct and have proof to back it up will discourage people to post for fear of looking "stupid." Some people are already reluctant to post here because they fear being made fun of if they don't know all the facts. However, I agree that if you are not sure if what you're saying is a concrete fact, then you can simply say "I think" or "I believe" so people know this is just your opinion or supposition, and that you may not have a source to back it up. But please post anyway!

Sometimes people don't have all their facts straight, but what better way to find out the facts than to post even just what you think, and then perhaps someone who does know for sure can correct and enlighten you. I think sometimes here we forget that not everyone here is an intellectual that knows everything about this topic. We are here to learn from each other.

Offline Martyn

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2004, 10:10:51 AM »
I agree with Sarai.  There was a post in another thread from someone who, although an adult member, felt intimidated by others who were too highhanded in dealing with other members and was thus reluctant to post anything for fear of being mocked or attacked.  Personally, I thought that was a bit of a shame.
Besides which. the whole thing would be very dry and dull without some of the light-hearted stuff that we sometimes see.
After all, the second post in this thread could have read 'named after saints and relatives' - end of story, thread killed stone dead.
'For a galant spirit there can never be defeat'....Wallis Windsor

'The important things is not what they think of me, but what I think of them.'......QV

Offline Sarai

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2004, 10:14:50 AM »
Quote
After all, the second post in this thread could have read 'named after saints and relatives' - end of story, thread killed stone dead.


Excellent point, Martyn. If all we posted were the straight facts that we know are true, then this wouldn't be much of a discussion board, would it?

rskkiya

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2004, 02:54:40 PM »
AHEM
   Why are people here "suddenly' so worried about being polite and friendly to each other? I have been here, either lurking or participating for some long time, and in that time I have been trashed and bashed without any deep psychological scars...come on, being laughed at {or flamed} here is infinately better than being mugged, stalked or abused by small victious garden gnomes...{Now Thats an image to chill the bones!}  :D
   After all, this is just a web site...I honestly don't understand why some people take it all so very personally...LAUGH! PLEASE?

the evil rskkiya ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by rskkiya »

Offline Johnny

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2004, 04:16:57 PM »
Quote
The fairy queen is called Titania and not Tatiana. The former is the female variant of Titan. Tatiana is not ethymologically related to that.
In a world of misinformation, I would like to ask our dear members not to speculate if they do not know something for a fact. And if they do so at least mention that it is not backed by any proof.

Wow! THAT was blown out of proportions! All I said very politely (as you can see in my quote above) was that Titania and Tatiana are unrelated and that if you are speculating please say so, so people don't think it's a fact. I also think that just saying "I believe" or "I think" is not enough, because that's how people talk even when they state facts. Just say "I am speculating" or "I am not sure" or "to me it sounds like", etc. That's what many people have already been doing and I really appreciate it. But if one person states his/her opinion as fact, the others who don't know much about the topic can take it for a fact and not even check the topic later.  I know I tend to do that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Johnny »
Татьяна: Кто ты - мой ангел ли хранитель?

Offline Sarai

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2004, 04:29:41 PM »
Quote
AHEM
Why are people here "suddenly' so worried about being polite and friendly to each other? I have been here, either lurking or participating for some long time, and in that time I have been trashed and bashed without any deep psychological scars...come on, being laughed at {or flamed} here is infinately better than being mugged, stalked or abused by small victious garden gnomes...{Now Thats an image to chill the bones!}  :D
    After all, this is just a web site...I honestly don't understand why some people take it all so very personally...LAUGH! PLEASE?


Rskkiya,
I think the reason why suddenly we are more concerned with niceness is that a lot of people are noticing an increasing trend in rudeness and condescending attitudes among members, especially towards new people, but also to old. I agree that, in the grand scheme of things, being criticized by someone on an Internet board is not a big deal, and some poeple may just say, "suck it up, buttercup!" but a lot of people are just sensitive to criticism. And it does become a problem when such people actually feel intimidated to post here and never contribute out of fear. I don't think we should all suddenly be concerned with being so politically correct that we never offend anyone, as that is inevitable, but we should be concerned with not being purposely rude and offensive and just plain mean :P  There are nicer ways to make your point than to ridicule someone.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Sarai_Porretta »

Offline Valmont

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2004, 04:50:05 PM »
I agree 100% with you, Rskkiya..
;D
Arturo Vega-Llausás