Author Topic: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days  (Read 173274 times)

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Offline Margarita Markovna

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #105 on: July 31, 2005, 04:49:06 PM »
Nope, no harm done! ;D I'm still alive! ;)

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #106 on: August 04, 2005, 11:30:38 AM »
I know the imperial children had a bevy of nicknames: Baby, Sunbeam, Girlies, 5 Treasures, Governess, Mashka, Schvibzik, etc. but with the exception of Mashka, they're all very particular to the personalities of each family member. What about the more 'standard' Russian nicknames like Olya, Tanya, Marochka, Nastya, Alyosha, and their infinite variations? Has anybody ever seen the imperial children referred to in writing this way? And if not, how likely is it that they, as Russian speakers, might have used these forms among themselves?
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Offline Baby Tsarevich

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #107 on: August 04, 2005, 11:49:15 AM »
Well I don't think that they would reffer to themselves by those nicknames (Olushka, Taneshka, Mashka, Mashen'ka, Nastya, Nastenka) Those are not the same type of nicknames as there is in the English speaking language. In Russian those are just used by family or relatives of what ever to reffer to a person by a softer and some what nicer way, like me and Anstasia share the same name, and my parents call me Nastya or Nastenka!

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« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Baby_Tsarevich »

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Offline Duchess_Scarlett

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #108 on: August 04, 2005, 01:34:53 PM »
I've never heard those Russian nicknames before, how did they get them?

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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #109 on: August 04, 2005, 05:01:19 PM »
They are just endearments. Russian is quite wonderful with a plethora of suffixes you can add to the names to make them ever more endearing to the point of being cloying. Of course there are also derogatory suffixes.
No doubt they referred to each other using the normal 'endearment' forms of their names. It is quite formal sounding for a family member to call an Olga "Olga", Olya or Olechka or the like would be quite normal. I know Olga refers to Tatiana as Tanya in her diary.

Offline hikaru

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #110 on: August 05, 2005, 01:49:48 PM »
Maybe, Tatiana was named after the beloved sister of Tsary Alexey - Tsarevna Tatiana.
She was beloved aunty of Peter the Great too.
She lived till 71 , and died at 1706.
It is well known, that Nicholas II adored the Alexey 's time.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #111 on: August 05, 2005, 06:54:06 PM »
Thank you, Georgiy & Anastacia -- this is just the sort of cultural nuance my classroom Russian skills didn't cover...

I've never run across any instance of the family using those endearments in their letters to one another, but with English translations especially, I can't be sure if that's because the family didn't use them or if the editors are trying to "simplify" the text for non-Russians. >:(  Of course, I can't claim to have read ALL their letters, either!

Do you suppose Alix, being primarily an English speaker, would have picked up the Russian endearment habit? In her letters to Nicky (the ones I've read, anyhow) she generally refers to the girls by their full names or initials, so I wasn't sure just how Russified her language may have been.
Sm

ps: I've also posted a question about OTMAA's use of the formal & informal pronouns in Russian. If either of you guys can help me out there, too, I'd sure love it!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by sarahelizabethii »
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Offline bookworm857158367

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #112 on: August 05, 2005, 10:27:15 PM »
In "The Riddle of Anna Anderson" there's a description of someone who knew the Romanovs visiting Anna Anderson in the sanitarium. She has been told the woman is pretending to be Tatiana, so she whispers softly "Tanechka?"

I would assume from that that Tanechka was another of the nicknames Tatiana was called by family and friends. From what I know of Russian names, my best guess is that the girls were commonly Olya, Tanya, Mashka, and Nastya, and that Alexei was Alyosha when he wasn't called Baby. Those are the common Russian nicknames for those names, sort of like Jim for James, Mike for Michael and Liz for Elizabeth.

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #113 on: August 06, 2005, 12:10:11 PM »
Alyosha, Alyoshka, Alyoshenka, Alyoshechka, Lyolyushka, Lyolyushechka...  and so on   ::)

Also KROshka (in the sense of tiny), MALenkiy(Little Fellow), SolNEETCHke (Russian for 'Sunbeam'), SoKROveeshe (treasure) and MOye/NAshe rodNOye (my/our very own boy)

But it would never do to call him 'MAlenkiy TsesarYEvichka' because in that case the suffix would conflict with his gender.  I was surprised when I found that out.  I am still learning to speak Russian.  So... 'malenkiy Tsesaryevich'.  And also:  we being just regular people could never even have addressed the Imperial Children even as 'Your Imperial Highness' without being spoken to.  It is a sign of love or particular friendship among Russians for them to use the diminutive forms of Christian names amongst themselves.  We lose this distinction in the United States where we are not used to monarchy, formality or the polite conventions of other countries.  

One of the Tsarevich's young friends at the Stavka reminisced:

'He has said that I may call him 'Alyosha' when we are by ourselves, but around grownups 'Alexei Nikolaevich' and 'Your Highness' in front of his father.'

It would have been a privilege if the Heir had said to anyone outside the family circle 'You may call me "Alexei Nikolaevich".
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Lizameridox »

Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #114 on: August 16, 2005, 04:54:15 PM »
I believe Feodorovna just means "daughter of God", and the Imperial wives took the name if their father's names lacked a Russian equivalent.  I don't know Russian but I know enough about linguistics to make a "highly" educated guess.  
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #115 on: August 16, 2005, 06:40:41 PM »
It doesn't mean Daughter of God. Feodor comes from the Greek name "Theodore" which means Gift of God. Literally speaking Feodorovna means Daughter of Theodore, but as I said earlier, an Icon of the Mother of God particularly revered by the Romanov family is the Feodorovskaya, so probably that is why Feodorovna was a popular patronym to give to foreign brides who married into the Romanov family.

Offline cimbrio

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #116 on: August 16, 2005, 06:42:16 PM »
Feodorovna simply means daughter of Fyodor /=Theodor); as far as I know it has nothing to do with God...

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #117 on: August 16, 2005, 07:47:07 PM »
Yes, but the name Theodore means Gift of God. Not only because of the icon, but also because of the meaning of the name, I can easily see symbolic relevance for the use of that name in Romanov brides.

Offline LenelorMiksi

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #118 on: August 17, 2005, 02:06:10 PM »
Hmmm...all of you are right, the name doesn't just mean  "daughter of God".  I got a little carried away when I thought of it because it seemed so fitting.  So general; in a Christian sense every Christian woman would be a daughter of God, or even every woman on Earth since God created everything.  However, I discovered another thread on AF discussing the same phenomenon.  
http://hydrogenpallasweb.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=alix;action=display;num=1104100358
I think my question is now, why was St. Feodor so important?
Grand Duchess Alice of Hesse:  "Each year brings us nearer to the Wiedersehen [reunion with the dead], though it is sad to think how one's glass is running out, & how little good goes with it, compared to the numberless blessings we receive.  Time goes incredibly fast."

Offline Georgiy

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Re: Names, Patronymics, Nicknames and Name Days
« Reply #119 on: August 17, 2005, 05:05:50 PM »
Well there are several St Theodores, but for the Romanovs, one significance of the name is related to an icon of the Virgin Mary Theotokos, known as Feodorovskaia. I don't know why the icon is called this, maybe it was from an area called Feodorovsk, or belonged to or was written by someone called Feodor.