Author Topic: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists  (Read 81709 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #105 on: March 03, 2008, 12:13:19 PM »
Wow, I am going to be at UMass in about two weeks, I wish I knew the names of the scientists who are doing the studies...

Offline Dominic_Albanese

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #106 on: March 19, 2008, 06:11:04 PM »
I believe it is appropriate to post this here...

dca

http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080319/101714548.html

Excavations for Romanov remains may resume in summer

 16:33 | 19/ 03/ 2008 

YEKATERINBURG, March 19 (RIA Novosti) - Archaeologists plan to resume excavations this summer in the southern Urals, where the remains of the last Russian tsar's children were allegedly found last July, a local archaeologist said Wednesday.

The remains of a boy and a young woman were exhumed near Yekaterinburg, where Tsar Nicholas II, his wife, their four daughters and son, and several servants, were shot by the Bolsheviks in 1918. They are believed to belong to Nicholas II's son and heir Alexis, and his daughter Maria.

"There are plans to resume the excavations...to find items belonging to the Romanov family. This will make it clear whether the remains belong to the tsar's children," said Sergei Pogorelov, a senior archaeological expert at a local research center.

However, Pogorelov said they had not found any sponsors for the research as yet.

Nikolai Nevolin, the region's chief forensic expert, said in late January that DNA tests conducted in Yekaterinburg and Moscow proved positive. He added that the final results would be published in April or May of 2008.

Initial studies revealed that the remains belong to a boy of about 12-14 years of age and a 16-18-year-old girl.

The tsar and his family members' remains were also discovered near Yekaterinburg in 1991. They were authenticated and buried in the St. Peter and Paul Cathedral in St. Petersburg in 1998, although forensic examination results have been challenged since then.

The Russian Orthodox Church, which has canonized the murdered Romanov family, called the 1998 burial "a political show."


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #107 on: March 20, 2008, 08:12:21 PM »

Nikolai Nevolin, the region's chief forensic expert, said in late January that DNA tests conducted in Yekaterinburg and Moscow proved positive.

Is this really the case?

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #108 on: March 27, 2008, 10:14:13 AM »
 I believe it was meant that they had managed to draw some DNA from the remains. 

The DNA and mtDNA testing is being done and those results are NOT yet known.

AGRBear
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #109 on: March 27, 2008, 10:23:30 AM »
Pulled from article above:

>>Archaeologists plan to resume excavations this summer in the southern Urals, where the remains of the last Russian tsar's children were allegedly found last July, a local archaeologist said Wednesday.<<

From what I understand,  extreme heat makes it very difficult to establish firm results for DNA and mtDNA.   Is this true?  If it is, perhaps this is causing the delay.

If they need to go back and excavate, again, what do they hope to find?  An army tunic, buttons, tin foil, jewels are not going to be proof that Alexei and a grand duchess is buried in these two pits.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

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Offline Sarai

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #110 on: April 08, 2008, 12:23:01 PM »
Russian, foreign experts to assess forensic study of Nicholas II's kids remains
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=12561169&PageNum=0

I found this article interesting as it mentions that, having undergone testing at Russian forensic laboratories and at UMass, the remains will next be tested at the DNA ID lab of the U.S. Armed Forces and next month are to go to the forensic laboratory of Innsbruck University in Austria.

Offline Sarai

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #111 on: April 30, 2008, 08:09:24 AM »
DNA Confirms Remains Of Czar's Children
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/30/tech/main4057567.shtml

U.S. experts confirm remains found outside Yekaterinburg are Nicholas II's children - Sverdlovsk governor
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4629

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #112 on: April 30, 2008, 08:27:07 AM »
Russian, foreign experts to assess forensic study of Nicholas II's kids remains
http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=12561169&PageNum=0

I found this article interesting as it mentions that, having undergone testing at Russian forensic laboratories and at UMass, the remains will next be tested at the DNA ID lab of the U.S. Armed Forces and next month are to go to the forensic laboratory of Innsbruck University in Austria.

For some reason I can't get into this one.

Thanks for posting these, Sarai. I guess this is not surprising, but I hope that this puts an end to all the ridiculous speculations once and for all!

Offline Sarai

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #113 on: April 30, 2008, 09:26:06 AM »
For some reason I can't get into this one.

Try this one:
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4510

I am glad to have conclusive evidence and closure in this case, and that they have all been found at last!

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #114 on: April 30, 2008, 09:41:35 AM »
Quote
Try this one:
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=4510

Thanks, that worked!

Offline Annie

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #115 on: April 30, 2008, 04:23:21 PM »
There are a lot more now, it's been picked up by Associated Press

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_eu/russia_czar_s_family_4

This one mentions the imposter AA and how DNA tests proved her fake

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/04/30/russia.czar/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Here's the one FA put on the main header, in case anyone else can't get it to click from there (like me)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/30/ap/world/main4057742.shtml?source=search_story

The scientist in the picture is named "Anastasia"
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 04:29:04 PM by Annie »

Offline Guinastasia

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #116 on: April 30, 2008, 06:32:50 PM »
Of course, we'll soon see the conspiracy theorists screaming "FAKE!" 

It's good to finally close the chapter-and Maria and Alexei can be laid to rest with their family at last.

(I still stand by my belief, though, that Anna Anderson was NOT a deliberate imposter-I think she came to believe that she really WAS Anastasia.  It's pretty sad-she was obviously mentally ill.)
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Offline J_Kendrick

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #117 on: April 30, 2008, 11:06:21 PM »
There are a lot more now, it's been picked up by Associated Press

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080430/ap_on_re_eu/russia_czar_s_family_4

This one mentions the imposter AA and how DNA tests proved her fake

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/04/30/russia.czar/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Here's the one FA put on the main header, in case anyone else can't get it to click from there (like me)

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/04/30/ap/world/main4057742.shtml?source=search_story

The scientist in the picture is named "Anastasia"



The key line in today's Associated Press version of the story is this: "With the mitochondrial analysis completed, the team is working on the nuclear DNA analysis and comparing the samples to paternal relatives of the czar's family."

So... Even if they do now have a mitochondrial match (as Edvard Rossel has now claimed), then this latest reported claim still means that they *must* still prove with nuclear (chromosomal) DNA that these new bone fragments are actually from a new source... that they are not just fragments that have come from Bodies  3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 from the original burial pit uncovered in 1991.

They *still* have to prove that there are two sets of remains here, one male and one female, and not just one.  They still *must* prove that the female fragments are related to but *not* the same as Bodies 3, 5, 6, and 7 from the first burial pit.  They still *must* prove the presence of a male Y-Chromosome in a single fragment of bone with the same mitochondrial profile as Body 7 (Alexandra)... and they still *must* show the DNA proof of that suspected faulty Factor VIII gene.

Until either Vladimir Soloviev or Nikolai Nevolin (or both) actually do get around to making the final official announcement... and until they do actually show us all every single piece of that final DNA evidence that will actually serve to prove these same three key points above... then this whole thing is *still* a very long way from over!!

JK
« Last Edit: April 30, 2008, 11:09:47 PM by J_Kendrick »

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #118 on: May 01, 2008, 08:19:05 AM »
"With the mitochondrial analysis completed, the team is working on the nuclear DNA analysis and comparing the samples to paternal relatives of the czar's family."

This statement is confusing. They would need to compare the nuclear DNA to the parents' nuclear DNA, not to the relatives of the Tsar...


« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 08:20:57 AM by Helen_A »

Offline Lucien

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Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists
« Reply #119 on: May 01, 2008, 09:28:47 AM »
Where is our Margarita?Wish to know her view on the findings as well as further procedures.
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