Remains of Russian tsar's children possibly found - archeologists

"With the mitochondrial analysis completed, the team is working on the nuclear DNA analysis and comparing the samples to paternal relatives of the czar's family."

This statement is confusing. They would need to compare the nuclear DNA to the parents' nuclear DNA, not to the relatives of the Tsar...

I assume they will be comparing the Y-chromosome DNA (if they find it) to that of Nicholas, but they might as well compare it with living relatives from Nicholas' side of the family as well... I also really hope they'll be able to prove the presence of the faulty factor VIII gene.
It all adds to the body of evidence.

Although absence of that gene doesn't necessarily prove it's not Alexei imo. If it was hemophilia (which I don't doubt), it doesn't necessarily have to be that gene which was affected. It could have been a factor IX problem (hemophilia B) as well.
Do they know which gene was flawed in the Victoria-Alexandra hemophilia line?

"With the mitochondrial analysis completed, the team is working on the nuclear DNA analysis and comparing the samples to paternal relatives of the czar's family."

I assume they will be comparing the Y-chromosome DNA (if they find it) to that of Nicholas, but they might as well compare it with living relatives from Nicholas' side of the family as well...

That's why this doesn't make sense. If they do the Y chromosome test, which is when N's relatives may or may not need to come into the picture, then that wouldn't work for the female remains. If they do the nuclear DNA paternity tests, then there is no need to do the Y chromosome test (which is a lot more complicated from what I understand), and why would the relatives need to be involved? It doesn't really make sense either way.

I also really hope they'll be able to prove the presence of the faulty factor VIII gene.
Do they know which gene was flawed in the Victoria-Alexandra hemophilia line?

I don't think they will be doing that, as it is redundant. They didn't do it for the other remains because it was not necessary, and I doubt they will do it for these. All they need to do is a paternity test to see if the nDNA matches the parentage of N&A's nDNA, and that will be proof enough. That should also show that the female remains are different from the other 3 younger female remains, and for the male remains, as long as nDNA and mtDNA match and the female remains match, nothing else is necessary.

As far as which gene was flawed, it would be the one that codes for Factor VIII protein of course.

I'd love to see a test on the girls, to see if any of them were carriers of hemophilia.  (Wasn't Maria suspected, because she tended to bleed easily)?

Where is our Margarita?Wish to know her view on the findings as well as further procedures.

You might want to check out Peter Sarandinaki's latest press release dated today (May 1, 2008) on the SEARCH website.

Please see:
http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/New-Press-Release.html 

It raises the question: Is Margarita now toeing the company line?

JK

I take it then that, by pointing out all the care that is being taken to verify the remains, you will accept whatever results this thorough testing produces?

I take it then that, by pointing out all the care that is being taken to verify the remains, you will accept whatever results this thorough testing produces?

Will never happen...

"With the mitochondrial analysis completed, the team is working on the nuclear DNA analysis and comparing the samples to paternal relatives of the czar's family."

I assume they will be comparing the Y-chromosome DNA (if they find it) to that of Nicholas, but they might as well compare it with living relatives from Nicholas' side of the family as well...

That's why this doesn't make sense. If they do the Y chromosome test, which is when N's relatives may or may not need to come into the picture, then that wouldn't work for the female remains. If they do the nuclear DNA paternity tests, then there is no need to do the Y chromosome test (which is a lot more complicated from what I understand), and why would the relatives need to be involved? It doesn't really make sense either way.

Well, the Y chromosome testing is the only way to prove it's Alexei's remains imo. So they definately have to do that.
And to prove the other remains belong to the missing GD, they'll have to do nDNA testing on the female remains as well.

I was just thinking, did they ever find nDNA on the first remains? mtDNA is far easier to have survived (since there's far more of it) than nDNA.
If they have no nDNA from Nicholas, they'll have to compare it with relatives ofc.
Another reason to involve living relatives might be to just have an extra body of evidence. The more evidence the better imo.
People could start questioning the initial DNA tests or the initial remains or whatever (as some most probably already have and always will). But then again, if that evidence didn't suffice, what would...

I also really hope they'll be able to prove the presence of the faulty factor VIII gene.
Do they know which gene was flawed in the Victoria-Alexandra hemophilia line?

I don't think they will be doing that, as it is redundant. They didn't do it for the other remains because it was not necessary, and I doubt they will do it for these. All they need to do is a paternity test to see if the nDNA matches the parentage of N&A's nDNA, and that will be proof enough. That should also show that the female remains are different from the other 3 younger female remains, and for the male remains, as long as nDNA and mtDNA match and the female remains match, nothing else is necessary.

As far as which gene was flawed, it would be the one that codes for Factor VIII protein of course.

Well, that's what I was asking. Why is it so sure it would be Factor VIII? As far as I know the seperation between Hemophilia A and B (Factor VIII fault, Factor IX fault respectively) can only be determined for sure through DNA testing. You could make a conclusion based on symptoms and severity, but that's not 100% conclusive I would imagine.

And it's not needed indeed and some might call it redundant. But I think it would be interesting to prove that Alexei's condition was indeed Hemophilia A (which is something some people still don't want to believe).
It's not needed to prove any identity or something, but why not test it just for the sake of knowing?

Grtz,
Oliver

Well, the Y chromosome testing is the only way to prove it's Alexei's remains imo. So they definately have to do that.

Of course that's not the only way. Y chromosome testing is usually done when no other resources are available, and here we have plenty. If his mtDNA matches and his nDNA proves him to be the child of N&A, then that's all they need. They don't need to do any Y chromosome testing, that would be completely redundant, not to mention a waste of time and money.

I was just thinking, did they ever find nDNA on the first remains?

Of course they did, that's how they did the paternity tests on the three daughters' remains...

Another reason to involve living relatives might be to just have an extra body of evidence. The more evidence the better imo.

That would be redundant, not to mention a waste of money and time. Most reasonable people will accept the results without all that stuff. Not to mention that no matter what they do, there will be people who will question these results.

I think it would be interesting to prove that Alexei's condition was indeed Hemophilia A

Most reasonable people have accepted that Alexei had hemophilia A. It would be interesting but this testing is best left for private parties who have nothing better to spend their money or time on... It's simply not necessary. 

Where is our Margarita?Wish to know her view on the findings as well as further procedures.

You might want to check out Peter Sarandinaki's latest press release dated today (May 1, 2008) on the SEARCH website.

Please see:
http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/New-Press-Release.html 

It raises the question: Is Margarita now toeing the company line?

JK

Interesting. Thank you for posting that John. It looks like Search isn't ready to draw any conclusions. When the story first broke, I thought is was bizarre that Dr. Gill wasn't commenting or issuing and statements. Good for them.

I would suggest that the SEARCH statement probably has more to do with Dr. Soloviev's request that there be NO statements of any kind until he releases his final report, such as the similar request that we received from Soloviev a few weeks ago, than with anything else.  I would be careful not to read too much into it at this time.

[; )]

Where is our Margarita?Wish to know her view on the findings as well as further procedures.

You might want to check out Peter Sarandinaki's latest press release dated today (May 1, 2008) on the SEARCH website.

Please see:
http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/New-Press-Release.html 

It raises the question: Is Margarita now toeing the company line?

JK

I am delighted to see that you are paying close attention John.   ; )

I would suggest that the SEARCH statement probably has more to do with Dr. Soloviev's request that there be NO statements of any kind until he releases his final report, such as the similar request that we received from Soloviev a few weeks ago, than with anything else.  I would be careful not to read too much into it at this time.

It was Peter Sarandinaki who requested that no unauthorized information should be released in response to Senior Procurator Vladimir Soloviev's personal request to Peter.

Well, the Y chromosome testing is the only way to prove it's Alexei's remains imo. So they definitely have to do that.

Of course that's not the only way. Y chromosome testing is usually done when no other resources are available, and here we have plenty. If his mtDNA matches and his nDNA proves him to be the child of N&A, then that's all they need. They don't need to do any Y chromosome testing, that would be completely redundant, not to mention a waste of time and money.

It is absolutely necessary that they test for the presence of a Y-Chromosome... simply to prove the presence of a male.

... just like it was Dr. Peter Gill's original gender-typing testing for the presence of X and Y Chromosomes back in 1992/93 that had first proved that Alexei was missing.

If there is no evidence of a Y-Chromosome... the bones are not male.

If the Y-Chromosome profile does not match the bones of Body 4 (Nicholas)... then Nicholas is not the father.

I think it would be interesting to prove that Alexei's condition was indeed Hemophilia A

Most reasonable people have accepted that Alexei had hemophilia A. It would be interesting but this testing is best left for private parties who have nothing better to spend their money or time on... It's simply not necessary. 

It *is* necessary to test for the suspected faulty Factor VIII gene... first to add weight to their claims of identification... second and more importantly because the Ekaterinburg forensic director Nikolai Nevolin has already committed them publicly to doing the test.

JK

It is absolutely necessary that they test for the presence of a Y-Chromosome... simply to prove the presence of a male.

It *is* necessary to test for the suspected faulty Factor VIII gene... first to add weight to their claims of identification... second and more importantly because the Ekaterinburg forensic director Nikolai Nevolin has already committed them publicly to doing the test.

JK

Indeed John the team of investigators know precisely which tests they need to conduct.

Thank you for your comments.

Margarita

It is absolutely necessary that they test for the presence of a Y-Chromosome... simply to prove the presence of a male.

I think we are talking about 2 different tests. What we were talking about earlier was the Y-chromosome test to prove relation, not gender... I believe they already know that there is a Y chromosome present and that the remains are male. When I referred to the Y-chromosome test, I was talking about an analogous test to mtDNA.