Author Topic: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg  (Read 81496 times)

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Offline Alice

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #60 on: August 26, 2007, 08:48:03 PM »
Well Maples was only one of many. He seemed to be clutching at straws over the height which clearly could not be determined as nobody knew the real height of Anastasia when she died. Were you there with a tape measure?

(I'm assuming this is directed at me).

What has me being there with a tape measure got to do with anything? Have I not already asserted that "Maples' arguments seemed to rely on the remains being too tall/too developed for Anastasia - but none of us know how tall or how developed Anastasia was at her time of death."? Were you there, Dmitri, collecting the skull fragments from the forest floor so that the skull would be complete and thus could be superimpositioned without estimations having to be made?

Maples was a Forensic Anthropologist who examined the remains. I'm not a Forensic Anthropologist and I didn't examine the remains and I'm assuming you didn't either. Thus, to dismiss his abilities is as insulting as dismissing the abilities of the Russian experts.

One team is obviously incorrect, but I don't think it's reflection of their abilities so much as the methods they employed to draw their conclusions. From what I understand the Russians relied more on computer superimposition where Maples' relied more on height extrapolation and development. We've established that the flaw in Maples' method of identification was that no-one knows how tall or how developed Anastasia was at her time of death. But there are flaws in computer superimposition, too - one is that the source of the superimposition, the skull, was incomplete.

Summary of point: neither team was comprised of incompetent half-witted fools, but rather, qualified experts. Thus, both teams' conclusions deserve consideration.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2007, 08:50:55 PM by Alice »

Offline Alice

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #61 on: August 26, 2007, 08:50:03 PM »
Well Maples was only one of many. He seemed to be clutching at straws over the height which clearly could not be determined as nobody knew the real height of Anastasia when she died. Were you there with a tape measure?
It's not too hard to see how much shorter Anastasia was than her sisters. He wasn't 'clutching at straws' he was doing the best he could to estimate the height of the bodies. Even if it was give or take a couple of inches it was still way too tall for Anastasia.

Unforunately the bones he had to use were not complete - they had been sawn in half. But the skull the Russians had to use for their superimposition was also not complete - IIRC, the lower half of the skull was missing.

Offline Holly

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #62 on: August 26, 2007, 08:59:55 PM »
Exactly, he had to estimate by the limbs in that condition so it wouldn't be exactly correct but if Body No. 5 was really Anastasia, the height of her skeleton wouldn't grow by 6 inches. If anything, it would lessen the height. And according to it's back developement, it was at least 18.
Personally, I think making an identification based on skeletal growth is more accurate then taking pictures of the family and putting them over pictures of skulls in which half of the faces are missing.
"Господь им дал дар по молитвам их размягчать окаменелые наши сердца за их страдания..Мне думается, что если люди будут молиться Царской Cемье, оттают сердца с Божией помощью."

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #63 on: August 26, 2007, 09:43:08 PM »
Well...Lets wait for the tests to come out first. These are based on circumstantial evidemce only, as there are many who died in the area. One should really wait for the forencic to confirm. It would be a real ending for the mystery.

Offline Belochka

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #64 on: August 26, 2007, 10:22:14 PM »
The aerial location published by the Russian media:


1. Ganina Yama,

2. Location of the excavation.


Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #65 on: August 26, 2007, 10:29:52 PM »
Thanks for the info.  :)

Offline rosieposie

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #66 on: August 26, 2007, 10:34:16 PM »
Thanks for the news Squirrel and Bob  :)  I am glad they are all together again. :D
Beautiful faithful Nargony.
Thanks Emily!

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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #67 on: August 26, 2007, 10:36:29 PM »
Once the remains were confirmed by forenic first.  ???

Offline griffh

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #68 on: August 26, 2007, 11:11:00 PM »
Even though I have been buried in the Empress' War Correspondence, I have followed every news item that Bob has so generously posted for all of us.  I have also followed each of Bob’s posts and found them incredibly interesting.  He had solved issues for me that I had not been clear about before.

At such a moment I just want to add how grateful I am for this Alexander Palace website and for its loving dedication to the IF and for the fact that it is the only place I can unite with persons who feel the same thrill of history that this event has produced within my heart.  Every since I have found out about this discovery of Alexis and Maria’s remains, I have tried to tell some of my friends about this historic find but it has meant very little or nothing to them.  If it were not for this wonderful website I would feel so alone in my joy and would have no one to share my elation with.  

I must also add how grateful I am to Margarita for her tenacious historic sense of exactness and her emphasis on the accurate translation of the Russian language.  Whilst working with Margarita I grew to deeply appreciate her continuous battle to establish a scientific sense of accuracy in the debate that raged over the remains of the IF.  I grew to appreciate her detailed sense of events in connection with the murder of Rasputin and her constant concerns over the translation of the Russian language which more often than not incorrectly translated.  It is so characteristic of Margarita’s marvelous ethic to give us, not only her very accurate translation of the Russian text about the discovery of the remains of Alexis and Maria, but to also give us the Russian text to compare against her translation.  Bravo la Contesse.  

I could add that Margarita has a vast library of Russian first source material, not to mention her medical expertise, and that this vast fund of information comprises the basis of her carefully researched conclusions which allows her to bring reason and common sense to debates that still rage and probably will continue to rage over the remains of the IF.  However if I did make such claims in her behalf, I might be accused of being biased.  So I will just say that both Bob and Margarita have an enviable research data base.  

While reading the following excerpts from the Empress’s War Correspondence for April 1915, when Nicky was on his victory tour of Galicia, I could not feeling a certain heartbreaking connection between the fate of Alexis’ framed photograph and the discovery of his remains.   Alix wrote Nicky:    

Letter No. 60 Tsarskoe Selo, April 8th, 1915
I send you in remembrance [of the Russian victory at Przemysl] an Image of St. Simeon - leave it for always as a guardian angel in your compartment - you will like the smell of the wood. -

Imperial Train. Proshourov. 12 April, 1915
MY PRECIOUS DARLING,
First of all, my warmest thanks for your two letters and the ikon of St. Simeon the Holy, and for Baby's photograph, which I have, alas I dropped out of the box and broken the glass. That happened in Przemysl...Nicky


Nicky’s thanks Alix “…for Baby’s photograph, which I have, alas I dropped out of the box and broken…”  

These words of Nicky seem so poignant and prophetic for after almost a century of searching, we have at last found the shattered pieces.  

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2007, 02:25:21 AM »
Lets hope that it is as it claimed. A close to the story will be a compete cycle.  :)

Offline Kurt Steiner

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2007, 04:31:01 AM »
Let's hope that this discovery end to the issue and the remains of the IF is put to rest together.

Offline Nomine

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2007, 05:28:17 AM »
I am now in Russia. This information was published in many Russian newspapers and as far as I have spoken to Russian historians, they belive, the remains really could belong to Alexei. The Russian newspapers say the girl, whose remains were found, is Maria.

It may sound quite strange, but no/one except for historians is really excited about the discovery. I was quite disappointed to find out the Russians are not so fussy about the last Imperial family as are people in Western Europe etc. Well, I am gonna go to Ekaterinburg next week, so I will see.
"It's better to burn out than to fade away."

Offline Mazukov

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2007, 07:31:20 AM »
Can we all just say Amen. too them both.

Offline GrandDuchess_2011

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2007, 07:58:05 AM »
We know they're all there, now to the problem as to which skeleton is who's. That way they can have a proper burial. Wouldn't it be cool to visit the clearly marked graves of the romanovs? I went to Washington, D.C. and visited JFK's grave. It gave a me chills down my spine.

I'm Nastya!!

Offline Lemur

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2007, 10:10:49 AM »
Well...Lets wait for the tests to come out first. These are based on circumstantial evidemce only, as there are many who died in the area.

They have more than enough to be this confident. It's all over but the DNA testing. Did you know they even had the same exact type of containers of sulfuric acid  found in the first grave? No one is guessing here, they have much to convince them this the correct site or they would not have given the press release.