Author Topic: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg  (Read 84289 times)

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Offline Lisa

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #120 on: August 29, 2007, 03:42:40 PM »
Ok, thanks for reply!

Offline Belochka

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #121 on: August 29, 2007, 06:53:52 PM »
... There is more, if you are interested in reading it, Eric. The original article was published in European Royal History Journal and can also be found online: http://www.geocities.com/mushkah/Nagai.html

I hope this helps with your doubts about the Japanese results.


To help Eric on his voyage of discovery, our paper: "Romanov Imperial Bones Revisited: why does doubt remain about who is buried in the St. Petersburg Fortress?" which discusses in detail why Nagai's results were flawed; and the politics that surrounded his "investigation" has also recently been published in:

1. European Royal History J. Issue LIII, October, 2006 p 24-32 and
                                                         December, 2006, pp 7-11.

2. In Russian in The Romanov Reading Fifteenth Anniversary Edition, January, 2007, Edited by Dr. A. Avdonin, Ekaterinburg

И снова об останках императорской семьи Романовых. Кто и для чего сеет  сомнения в подлинности останков, упокоенных в Петропавловском соборе?

Маргарита Нелипа, Австралия
Хелен Азар, США. 

See: http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/Readings.html or http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/Nagai-Russian.html

Margarita





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Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #122 on: August 29, 2007, 08:39:01 PM »
I think I have been misunderstood again. My main point is that I hope the bones of the supposed 2 would be throughly checked in DNA. The democratic situation in Russia has worsen in recent times (the death of reporters and the accuracy of the news going back to USSR Times). It would not be too skeptical to think that it could be a plant. In fact the body of Misha was never found. His DNA would have been the same as those of Nicholas II and can be use to substitude. Anyway I adopt a wait and see attitude and wait untilll ALL the test comes back. In my heart though I hope for closure to this horrid tale.  :(

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #123 on: August 29, 2007, 09:07:20 PM »
Eric,

You were not misunderstood. You very specifically referenced a Japanese test which you claim discredited the identification of the skull of Nicholas II.  It is most interesting to me that you now back pedal from your original more inflammatory statement and even more importantly still REFUSE to identify the study you cited despite many requests that you do so...

Well...The Japanese test results revealed that the skull of Nicholas II is not him. That put a dent in the absoluteness of the findings.  ???

Offline Annie

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #124 on: August 29, 2007, 09:49:29 PM »
I think I have been misunderstood again. My main point is that I hope the bones of the supposed 2 would be throughly checked in DNA. The democratic situation in Russia has worsen in recent times (the death of reporters and the accuracy of the news going back to USSR Times). It would not be too skeptical to think that it could be a plant. In fact the body of Misha was never found. His DNA would have been the same as those of Nicholas II and can be use to substitude. Anyway I adopt a wait and see attitude and wait untilll ALL the test comes back. In my heart though I hope for closure to this horrid tale.  :(

Hold on, do I misunderstand? You're saying they had Misha's body and used that DNA to falsify the body as Nicholas? Don't you think that's a  lot wilder than just the family being shot and buried in the forest? Where did they get the DNA for the women found with him? I think even some of the servants were tested with relatives. You're not one who believes in the AA intestine switch too are you?

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #125 on: August 29, 2007, 09:59:22 PM »
I am not back pedaling at all. If you read what I wrote carefully, you would have understood that I said I hope for the test this time to be more presise. The Japanese test did put doubts in the minds of SOME people (The Russian Orthodox Church surely felt that way-This fact you cannot deny !). That is what I wrote about doubts, then a whole tirade of emails about the tests. I think I will leave the discussion here since the majority is becoming more emotional than logical.  :(

Offline BlueEyedDuchess

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #126 on: August 30, 2007, 02:18:34 AM »
I myself am just thankful for the fact that perhaps these two children may have been found and that they will finally be able to rest in peace with the rest of their family.
While the rest of the species is descended from apes, redheads are descended from cats. - Mark Twain

Offline Eric_Lowe

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #127 on: August 30, 2007, 04:30:32 AM »
That is what I am saying. We haven't have all the facts or tests, but we already hoped to close the case.  :(

Offline Belochka

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #128 on: August 30, 2007, 06:37:35 AM »
Moscow Procurator (criminalistics), Vladimir Soloviev at the excavation site


The three bullets of different calibre found at the site


An assortment of bone fragments



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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #129 on: August 30, 2007, 08:42:47 AM »
Eric,

The only person being emotional here is YOU.  You stated that the Japanese test proved the skull was not Nicholas.  The FACT is that the test you cited was not a vailid test.  The original tests which showed the remains WERE Nicholas were valid.  Stop trying to imply the original tests were not valid (which is what you meant by your OWN admission.)

Look buddy, if you can't take the heat for what you write, then stay out of the kitchen.  Nobody is being emotional here, other than you with your petulant behavior.


Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2007, 08:43:14 AM »
That is what I am saying. We haven't have all the facts or tests, but we already hoped to close the case.  :(

Eric, I was the first to say that the case cannot be closed until the DNA tests are in. That's a very reasonable way to approach this. However, your posts imply to me that you feel that the DNA results can't be trusted, i.e. you bring up the example of the Japanese results and how they have put doubt on the autheticity of the original remains, even though it has been demonstrated that these Japanese tests are completely invalid. Now you are saying that you want to wait for the DNA results for these new remains, but if you doubt the original DNA results in the first place + you now feel that these remains could have been planted, then why would you want to wait for the DNA results in the first place? If this is a plant, then of course the DNA results will authenticate them - that's the whole point of a plant, isn't it? Which, as far as you are concerned, makes the DNA results comlpetely useless. So basically it sounds like you already made up your mind that even if the DNA results come back proving that these remains are authentic, you will still not believe them... Which makes me want to ask, what kind of proof would you require in order to accept all these remains as authentic? Obviously DNA doesn't cut it for you, what would? I seriously would like to know.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2007, 08:46:38 AM »
Moscow Procurator (criminalistics), Vladimir Soloviev at the excavation site


The three bullets of different calibre found at the site


An assortment of bone fragments


Thanks for posting these, Margarita. I assume that the bullets match the bullets in the other grave?

Offline Annie

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2007, 12:28:33 PM »
There are already some people who say they won't accept the DNA tests unless they're done outside of Russia, though the other ones were done outside Russia and they don't accept them either so would it make any difference how many tests are done? :P

Thanks Belochka for the amazing but sad pictures. Seeing just how little was left of the bodies it's no wonder those remains were so hard to find.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2007, 12:35:08 PM »

[/quote]

Is this really all that was found? In which case exactly how did they determine that the remains belonged to a male between the ages of 10-13 and a female aged 18-23, without forensic tests?

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Formal Press Release from Ekaterinburg
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2007, 12:50:55 PM »
There are already some people who say they won't accept the DNA tests unless they're done outside of Russia, though the other ones were done outside Russia and they don't accept them either so would it make any difference how many tests are done? :P

It doesn't matter where and how many DNA tests are done and by whom, there will always be people who won't accept them simply because they don't want to accept that they were mistaken all along.