Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4  (Read 72837 times)

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Offline stacey

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #315 on: October 31, 2007, 10:48:42 AM »
Annie, I entirely agree with you!  :)

Some very interesting thoughts here.

I have always wondered what became of her alleged child. Because apparently she wasn't the only one to assert that she had given birth to a child--didn't a doctor who examined her after she was rescued from the canal say that she had given birth to at least one child? I would think a doctor would know about something like that!! But the child if it did exist never showed up as far as we know--perhaps it did die and that is why she was so distraught?? (Just a theory of course!)

About her mental illness and the fact that she alienated people who wanted to help her--I majored in psychology and the more I read about her, the more I'm convinced that (perhaps among other things) she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Her behavior definitely seems consistent with that diagnosis. And I'm not saying that to criticize or belittle her--some doctors have thought I am borderline myself--maybe it takes one to know one?!  ;)
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Offline stacey

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #316 on: October 31, 2007, 11:20:08 AM »
About the languages--I wonder just how well the genuine Grand Duchess Anastasia spoke other languages, such as French, English, and German? I don't think I've ever really heard--I know she was said to be a brilliant mimic and I would think that would be a definite asset in learning another language. Still, Ive also heard she wasn't exactly the scholarly type either!

I do recall reading that she (and her sisters) spoke Russian with other Russians (including the servants), and with their father, but spoke English with their mother, since Alix was never very comfortable with the Russian language--English and German were her languages. So Anastasia certainly should have been fluent in at least Russian and English.

I don't know how "good" AA/FS's German was (I've heard not very good!) but I know for sure her English was frightful!!
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Offline Annie

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #317 on: October 31, 2007, 11:30:03 AM »
So Anastasia certainly should have been fluent in at least Russian and English.

Right, and AA being good at neither is a big blow against her, as is this fact

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she was said to be a brilliant mimic and I would think that would be a definite asset in learning another language.

Because she was a great mimic, she was able to pick up accents of all sorts of foreign people speaking various languages. Of all the things mentioned about the REAL Anastasia in her life, this seemed to be her one true gift. So for AA to claim she was AN and just use that one accent for everything and be so terrible at picking up languages and accents should really have sent up a red flag that she wasn't Anastasia!

Quote
I don't know how "good" AA/FS's German was (I've heard not very good!) but I know for sure her English was frightful!!

We do know for sure her English was terrible because we can hear her on videos and recordings. I know some ladies who came from Germany in the 1950's and their English is beautiful with a beautiful German accent- nothing like what AA sounded like. I really believe AA/FS's first language was Kashubian Polish and German was her second language, and not very good. All the rest came later after someone tried to teach her. (there is NO evidence she spoke any of them other than a few unverifyable comments from AA supporters, which are counteracted by Felix Y. and Olga A. saying she knew no English, French or Russian when they met, and the fact she never proved in front of the court she could speak or read Russian.)

Offline Annie

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #318 on: October 31, 2007, 11:43:15 AM »
Annie, I entirely agree with you!  :)

Thanks! (Louila too!) :)

Quote
Some very interesting thoughts here.

I have always wondered what became of her alleged child. Because apparently she wasn't the only one to assert that she had given birth to a child--didn't a doctor who examined her after she was rescued from the canal say that she had given birth to at least one child? I would think a doctor would know about something like that!! But the child if it did exist never showed up as far as we know--perhaps it did die and that is why she was so distraught?? (Just a theory of course!)

I think that's a very good theory. I am convinced that whatever happened to her child was a big part of the depression that led her to attempt suicide. AA supporters like to say as a 'fact' that 'AA had borne a child and FS had not.' But we don't know that! In those days  girls hid their illegitimate pregnancies, so it's not unusual that there would be no record of the child, or that she wouldn't have told her family. It could have died, or even been left to die (even now you still  hear about girls tossing their baby in the trash can) or it could have been anonymously abandoned on a doorstep or in an orphanage. It may not even have been carried to term. I've told the story before, but it's true, my Grandmother lost a baby at 4-5 months gestation falling down the steps,but in her old age a dr. examined her and told her she'd had five children, though only four were live babies. That proves that a baby at least 4 months along into pregnancy leaves the same scar on the uterus as a full term baby. So it's possible that FS could have had miscarried or even had an illegal abortion, and that also may have made her feel bad. Whatever happened must have been a bad experience that added to her depression. All we know is there was a child, because she and AA were the same person. If the baby did live and was still out there, she probably wouldn't have wanted it found because it would tie her to FS and the life she ran away from. (this could be why she threw off the trail by saying it was left in Romania)

Quote
About her mental illness and the fact that she alienated people who wanted to help her--I majored in psychology and the more I read about her, the more I'm convinced that (perhaps among other things) she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Her behavior definitely seems consistent with that diagnosis. And I'm not saying that to criticize or belittle her--some doctors have thought I am borderline myself--maybe it takes one to know one?!  ;)

Hey that's a good one, personality disorder! That makes a lot of sense in her case!

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #319 on: October 31, 2007, 01:33:25 PM »
About her mental illness and the fact that she alienated people who wanted to help her--I majored in psychology and the more I read about her, the more I'm convinced that (perhaps among other things) she suffered from borderline personality disorder. Her behavior definitely seems consistent with that diagnosis.

There is a very good chance FS had a personality disorder, in fact, if we go by what has been written about her, she is almost a textbook case... So I would agree with this one.

Offline stacey

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #320 on: October 31, 2007, 11:54:08 PM »
Thanks, Annie and Helen!!  :)
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Offline Annie

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #321 on: November 01, 2007, 09:57:39 AM »
Thank YOU Stacey, and please come back and comment more often! It's great to have a discussion on FS without the old tired spectre of 'but she was AN' surfacing again.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #322 on: November 01, 2007, 06:33:25 PM »
The real Anastasia was far more interesting than the fraud AA/FS. One was a member of the Russian Imperial Family in the last phase of Tsardom. The other was either mentally ill or a complete and utter con artist with no connection whatsoever to the Romanovs. It is the real Anastasia who will be remembered. The other is just a ludicrous footnote.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #323 on: November 02, 2007, 08:33:41 AM »
Yes what an incredibly bad fraud. Just shows you how ignorant people will believe anything they choose to ignoring basic facts.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #324 on: November 11, 2007, 09:47:40 PM »
Yes what an incredibly bad fraud. Just shows you how ignorant people will believe anything they choose to ignoring basic facts.

dmitri, you say basically the same thing on replies #22, 44, 64, 69, and 72. By very generous interpretation on my part, you have actually said something than your endlessly repetitive "she was a fraud, she was a liar" on several others.

At no point do you bother to present any evidence that her fraud, if it was such, was deliberate on her part. At no point do you refute the ample evidence that she was mentally ill. So, to me and countless others, you are simply babbling as a baby babbles, and not really saying anything.

Yes, dmitri, we all get that this is your opinion, but you need not constantly repeat it on hundreds of threads - we all get it. I just wish when you post you would actually say something, and would be very welcome.

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #325 on: November 11, 2007, 10:06:32 PM »
Quote
Because she was a great mimic, she was able to pick up accents of all sorts of foreign people speaking various languages. Of all the things mentioned about the REAL Anastasia in her life, this seemed to be her one true gift. So for AA to claim she was AN and just use that one accent for everything and be so terrible at picking up languages and accents should really have sent up a red flag that she wasn't Anastasia!
Yes, and she also tricked people into thinking she was Anastasia by imatating her expressions in photographs she has seen of the Real Anastasia. She knows that their are people stupid enough to believe in her story, and her fake tricks she pulled up on the camra. AA's life was indeed sad and pathetic.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 10:11:54 PM by Elizabeth~Princess »

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #326 on: November 12, 2007, 12:28:03 AM »
Yes there is ample evidence available about AA. It's all out there if people bother and so easy to find if people bother to look for it. She didn't look at all like her, didn't speak the languages Anastasia did so masterfully and so on. She described royal residences incorrectly and so on. The list goes on and on.To top it off her DNA didn't match. Of course all those who really knew the real Anastasia have been treated as if they knew nothing. How contemptible is that I wonder? What her state of health might have been is really not at all relevant. That was her personal situation and had nothing at all to do with the real Grand Duchess Anastasia. The important fact is that AA chose for whatever reason to steal the identity of a murdered Grand Duchess. That is hardly acceptable behaviour. Others chose to aid her for whatever reason in this game. To keep the fraud going after her death when it is known that this woman was not at all related to the Romanovs is bizarre at best. One wonders whether these people have any interest at all in Russian history. It would seem not.

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #327 on: November 12, 2007, 07:17:36 AM »
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Others chose to aid her for whatever reason in this game. To keep the fraud going after her death when it is known that this woman was not at all related to the Romanovs is bizarre at best. One wonders whether these people have any interest at all in Russian history. It would seem not.
I realy think that they don't care about Anastasia just keeping AA's story alive. They are so sure Anastasia is AA and yet they barly know much about Anastasia's life or the Romanovs. Exactly if they did care and know a whole lot about Anastasia they would have denied AA. But, they have nothing else to do becuase they think AA is so interesting and they are always defending her becuase they think it is a game. Realy I think they are not being serious. AA was a mentally ill and sick woman who was in low society and she begged for her fame by pretending to be such a innocent and beautiful girl Anastasia. They never had nothing to do with each other. She is so evil to just pretend to be someone else's identity just for attention and money. It is realy wrong to inpersonate someone else and lie about it.

Offline G_Lermontov

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If I recall correctly, AA's brother and sister were brought in to identify her after the Berliner Nachtausgabe story was published in 1927.  At first both her brother, Felix, and sister identified her as being Fransiska.  She then spoke to her brother privately, after which he changed his story and said that she wasn't his sister.  Fransiska's sister had a minor outburst at the end of the session, yelling something along the lines of "I know you are my sister!  Admit it!"

I'm recalling this from memory from Robert K. Massie's The Romanovs:  The Final Chapter, so forgive me if some of the exact details are incorrect, but I believe the gist of the story is right.

What became of the Schanzkowska siblings, and were they ever sought out by an intrepid reporter in the many decades of later fascination with the Anna Anderson story?  I would love to hear more details about these people.

Also, I wonder what transpired in the conversation between AA and her brother that caused him to change his mind?  I imagine it would have been something like "Felix, these crazy people think I'm a Russian Grand Duchess, and they're feeding me, clothing me, and putting me up in castles.  Don't ruin this for me!"  ;)

Offline Michael HR

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It was indeed intresting that at first they seem to recognize her and then do a complete turn around and then say they did not, as I recall. It would be intresting to hear from members of her family today and what they think of the Anna Anderson story and there views on the outcome with the DNA.

Did not one of her Sisters insist that she was  FS and got quite angry when AA would not admit this?
 
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