Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4  (Read 72764 times)

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Offline Annie

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I really believe they decided to deny her for her, and their own, good. What good would come from claiming her? She'd be labeled a fraud and sent to jail for filing a false claim, or to the insane home. After the Nazis took over Germany,(by the time of the trial) being ruled insane was grounds to be sent to a concentration camp and usually killed. Remember FS was declared legally insane in 1916, so if she were proven to be FS that's where she'd go.

Think about it, if she were your sister, would you claim her? What, and drag her home kicking and screaming you'd ruined her claim? Who was going to support her the rest of her life even if she got out of jail/asylum, them? Who'd be responsible for all the financial and legal mess caused to German taxpayers by her case, and all the police investigations, medical care, etc. Who'd want to claim that? Felix S. made the comment one time "if she is my sister I won't have to be responsible for her, will I?" Also among the older generations family shame and humiliation was a big thing and she brought that to them. There's even the added possibility (this was a friend's theory not mine) that she may even have begged them not to expose her in exchange for a cut of the payoff if she won. Over the years, a couple of the nieces have made comments that the family knew AA was FS all along. In Klier and Mingay's book, they say that even to this day they family is afraid of somehow being held responsible for AA's actions.

Offline Foxglove

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If I recall correctly, AA's brother and sister were brought in to identify her after the Berliner Nachtausgabe story was published in 1927.  At first both her brother, Felix, and sister identified her as being Fransiska.  She then spoke to her brother privately, after which he changed his story and said that she wasn't his sister.  Fransiska's sister had a minor outburst at the end of the session, yelling something along the lines of "I know you are my sister!  Admit it!"

You are correct, although initially, it was Felix who went to visit Anna, and later, joined his siblings in 1938 to identify yet her again, which is when Gertrude inisted that Anna was their sister.

From what I have read, I gained the impression that the family wanted little to do with Franziska/Anna before and after her disappearance. It was hinted that Mrs. Schanzkowska no longer wanted the young and pretty Franziska with her new stepfather, which is why Franziska departed for Berlin. After her accident, Franziska returned back to her mother’s care, but then left the house again. Later, when we read that Franziska lived alone at the Wingenders’ almost as a “charity case”, it makes one wonder why she did not continue to live with her mother or any of her siblings when she was still unwell.

Also, I found the initial meeting between Felix and Anna to be, um, strange to say the least, and it just presented some inaccuracies for me.

Offline Annie

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From what I have read, I gained the impression that the family wanted little to do with Franziska/Anna before and after her disappearance. It was hinted that Mrs. Schanzkowska no longer wanted the young and pretty Franziska with her new stepfather, which is why Franziska departed for Berlin.

Where did  you read this? Is it something I can quote? I thought I'd seen it before and that is my own personal theory too. I have also even wondered if perhaps the baby FS had/lost was not fathered by the stepfather. It makes perfect sense she'd leave home because of the stepfather, I personally know several women who did so as young girls for the same reason. I also strongly suspect that FS was estranged from her family at the time of her suicide attempt, and that likely contributed to her depression (not to mention her not being reported missing for 3 weeks) I saw one list posted here of the family that had Felix's birthday listed as Feb. 17- the same day she jumped, and add to this he claims to have gotten a card from her. Could it be that card was sent before she jumped as some kind of 'guilt trip' once he found out later she had died on his birthday (if her attempt was successful)  Even though she survived the jump physically, she killed herself metaphorically. She refused to acknowledge her identity as FS (becoming Miss Unknown) until she lucked into getting her 'new identity' of "Anastasia." If we could find out the true story behind FS and why she chose to try to kill herself, it would be a story more interesting than her claim.

Offline stepan

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It´s interesting to read what Dmitry of Leuchtenburg,son of Georg of Leuchtenburg, wrote in a letter to G.D. Olga´s biographer Ian Vorres : "I was present during the surprise meeting of Mrs Tschaikovsky with Felix Schanzkovsky when the latter recognized her as his sister Franziska agreeing to sign a statement to that effect.Later following a short conference with his sister beyond our earshot he refused to sign such a statement for reasons that could be easily understood. He was a poor communist miner,his mother was very ill with cancer without means and his sister lived in a castle being treated as a potential Grand Duchess. Why should he spoil her´career´?"
I was surprised to find this letter at Wikipedia. I haven´t seen it published before. But I knew that Dmitry von Leuchtenburg always believed that AA was Franziska.He had lived with her like the rest of the Leuchtenberg family for almost a year at Seeon castle in Bavaria. At the German wikipedia I also found something interesting.  According to this Franziska´s full name was Franziska Anna Czenstkowski,daughter of Anton Czenstkovski and his wife Marianne, born Witzke. So Anna was one of her real names! Fascinating isen´t it?

Offline Helen_Azar

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There has been a lot of back and forth discussions here on the forum about FS's family and their reaction to Anna Anderson/FS. AA's supporters claim that no one in the family recognized AA as FS, except for one hysterical outburst from Gertrude at a meeting set up by the Nazis (I think), who later recanted. This is one of those topics where you can go back and forth forever, arguing that it happened or didn't happen. In my own speculation - I am pretty sure the siblings recognized her, and initially admitted to it, perhaps somewhat involuntarily (at least Felix and Gertrude did), but then, having some time to ponder on it, decided to deny it. Well, I can't say that I blame them. 

Offline Annie

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It´s interesting to read what Dmitry of Leuchtenburg,son of Georg of Leuchtenburg, wrote in a letter to G.D. Olga´s biographer Ian Vorres : "I was present during the surprise meeting of Mrs Tschaikovsky with Felix Schanzkovsky when the latter recognized her as his sister Franziska agreeing to sign a statement to that effect.Later following a short conference with his sister beyond our earshot he refused to sign such a statement for reasons that could be easily understood. He was a poor communist miner,his mother was very ill with cancer without means and his sister lived in a castle being treated as a potential Grand Duchess. Why should he spoil her´career´?"
I was surprised to find this letter at Wikipedia. I haven´t seen it published before. But I knew that Dmitry von Leuchtenburg always believed that AA was Franziska.He had lived with her like the rest of the Leuchtenberg family for almost a year at Seeon castle in Bavaria. At the German wikipedia I also found something interesting.  According to this Franziska´s full name was Franziska Anna Czenstkowski,daughter of Anton Czenstkovski and his wife Marianne, born Witzke. So Anna was one of her real names! Fascinating isen´t it?

Yes it is! Thank you, you always have brought us things from other countries and languages we don't usually see. This is very interesting additional information! If you find more please do let us know.

Offline Foxglove

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Where did  you read this? Is it something I can quote? I thought I'd seen it before and that is my own personal theory too. I have also even wondered if perhaps the baby FS had/lost was not fathered by the stepfather. It makes perfect sense she'd leave home because of the stepfather, I personally know several women who did so as young girls for the same reason. I also strongly suspect that FS was estranged from her family at the time of her suicide attempt, and that likely contributed to her depression (not to mention her not being reported missing for 3 weeks) I saw one list posted here of the family that had Felix's birthday listed as Feb. 17- the same day she jumped, and add to this he claims to have gotten a card from her. Could it be that card was sent before she jumped as some kind of 'guilt trip' once he found out later she had died on his birthday (if her attempt was successful)  Even though she survived the jump physically, she killed herself metaphorically. She refused to acknowledge her identity as FS (becoming Miss Unknown) until she lucked into getting her 'new identity' of "Anastasia." If we could find out the true story behind FS and why she chose to try to kill herself, it would be a story more interesting than her claim.

I remember reading this on another forum, and the poster of this information had written that this came from Penny Wilson, so I can only take that poster’s word on it. This is all I can recall from memory though. It is difficult to tell just what exactly happened between Franziska and her stepfather, because there are so many scenarios to choose from, ranging from the general woes of a blended family to something more sinister.

I do agree that the suicide attempt on her brother’s birthday is interesting, to say the least. Whether it carries significant meaning, or was simply a spur-of-the-moment decision to choose that particular time, will forever be unknown to us, I suppose.

Offline Annie

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Thanks, I know my theory on the birthday is just a guess but something to think about just the same. I do wonder if the story of FS and her stepfather is fact based or speculation, it would be interesting to find out for sure.

Offline Kitt

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Perhaps some of you might be able to answer a question I have had.  After AA spoke about Ernie of Hesse making a trip to Russia during WWI, Ernest Ludwig had a investigation done, and hired a private investigator, Martin Knopf. The question is how did Knopf go from "Miss Nobody" to Franciska Schanzkowska? How did the Schanzkowska name come forward? Most of what I read seems to leave that part out.  Even though DNA seems to show connections to AA, It seems to go from the point of not knowing who AA is (Now we know she wasn't Anastasia)  to correctly picking the one person with similar DNA characteristics.  So, how did they pick out of thousands, the Schanzkowska family out of the hat?
All the best,  Kitt

Offline Annie

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Evidently, Ernie had the time, resources and personal interest in the case to do and fund a complete investigation (unlike the Berlin police at the time, due to strife, hyperinflation and unrest) His detective, doing a more thorough search, had no trouble connecting AA to FS, who had disappeared in the same time frame and place AA appeared. I don't know what all he did, where he searched or what he found, since most stories of AA are written by AA supporters, they don't tell much about the other side and things negative to her cause. I think Doris Wingender, the woman FS was boarding with at the time she disappeared, had a hand in fingering her as AA.

Offline Foxglove

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Perhaps some of you might be able to answer a question I have had.  After AA spoke about Ernie of Hesse making a trip to Russia during WWI, Ernest Ludwig had a investigation done, and hired a private investigator, Martin Knopf. The question is how did Knopf go from "Miss Nobody" to Franciska Schanzkowska? How did the Schanzkowska name come forward? Most of what I read seems to leave that part out.  Even though DNA seems to show connections to AA, It seems to go from the point of not knowing who AA is (Now we know she wasn't Anastasia)  to correctly picking the one person with similar DNA characteristics.  So, how did they pick out of thousands, the Schanzkowska family out of the hat?
All the best,  Kitt

If I remember correctly, a German newspaper, the Berliner Nachtausgabe, hired private investigator Martin Knopf to identify “Mrs. Unknown”, although Mr. Knopf was paid by Ernest Louis, Grand Duke of Hesse. How the Grand Duke got involved exactly is still vague to me, with some accounts stating that he paid a journalist at that paper to uncover Anna’s identity, which is how Mr. Knopf came aboard. A photograph of Anna was published in the Berliner Nachtausgabe asking if anyone could identify this woman. That is when one Doris Wingender went to visit Martin Knopf at his office, and informed him that the woman he was investigating was Franziska Schanzkowska, a former lodger of Ms. Wingender’s mother, who had disappeared several years earlier.

From my readings, Doris Wingender has been made a villain to an almost unfair extent, although ironically enough, had it not been for her, it is probable that Anna’s true identity might have remained unknown to this day...

Offline Kitt

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Thank you so much for giving me some "leads" on this subject.  I guess with the recent events that point conclusively that the entire family was executed, that the AA and FS subject might be one of the  few viable mysteries now. Certainly it is interesting.
All the best, Kitt

Offline Annie

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From my readings, Doris Wingender has been made a villain to an almost unfair extent, although ironically enough, had it not been for her, it is probable that Anna’s true identity might have remained unknown to this day...

I agree, but of course the AA supporters hate her and try to discredit her in their desperate attempt to be rid of FS so AA can be AN (which of course is not going to happen) AA supporters say she wanted money to tell the story, but that doesn't mean it wasn't true. A lot of people who have the 'goods' on somebody in the public eye sing like a canary for money all the time, that's how the tabloids and shows like ET and Access Holllywood get their stories. Larry Birkhead and Howard K. Stern are set for life. So she saw she had valuable info, who can blame her? Here's more on FS and Doris, from Massie's "Final Chapter":

"The Romanovs: The Final Chapter" Robert K. Massie, pages 178-179 softback:

Doris Wingender said that Franziska had been a lodger in her mother's home until her disappearance in March 1920. Over two years later, during the summer of 1922, Doris reported, Franziska had suddenly returned and said that she had been living with a number of Russian monarchist families "who apparently mistook her for someone else." Franziska had stayed for three days, Doris continued, and while she was there, the two women had exchanged clothing: Franziska took from Doris a dark blue suit....she handed over a mauve dress, some monogrammed underwear, and a camel's hair coat. Then, once again, Franzkisa vanished.

To verify the story ,the newspaper hired a detective, Martin Knopf, who took the clothing Franziska had left behind at the Wingenders' to one of the Russian emigre households where Fraulein U. had stayed in 1922. Baron and Baroness von Kleist recognized it. "I bought the camel's hair myself." said the baron, "That's the underwear I monogrammed myself" cried the baroness. For the benefit of the newspapers, the "Riddle of Anastasia" was solved.


page 180, account of a writer for the paper:

... Mrs. Tchiakovsky (AA) faced with charges of assuming a false identity, had no choice. According to a writer for the Berlin Nachtausgabe, who was present with Martin Knopf, this is what happened:

The witness, Fr. Doris Wingender, enters the room. Franziska Schanzkowska lies on the divan, her face half covered with a blanket. The witness has barely said 'good day' before FS jerks up and cries in a heavily accented voice "That THING must get out!" The sudden agitation, the wild rage in her voice, the horror in her eyes, leave no doubt, she has recognized Wingender.

Wingender stands as if turned to stone. She has immediately recognized the lady on the divan as FS. That is the same face she saw day after day for four years. That is the same voice, the same nervous trick with the handkerchief, that is the same Franziska Schanzkowksa.


« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 08:51:19 AM by Annie »

Offline Annie

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Here are some photos of AA/FS and her real life siblings:

Here are some photographs which I compiled of AA and the Schanzkowski family

Below is Left: Gertrude Schanzkowska Franziska's sister who recognized AA (Gleb Botkin himself admited to a resemblence between the two of them) and Right: Anna Anderson



Below Left and Right Anna Anderson. Center: Gertrude Schanzkowska



Below Left and Right: Anna Anderson. Center Maria-Juliana Schanzkowska who the Schanzkowski family said Franziska most resembled.  When Franziska's former teacher and his wife were shown a photograph of Anna Anderson they stated that it didn't look like Franziska but like Maria-Juliana.  Also note that both AA and Maria-Juliana have the same hairstyle- with the exception that they parted their hair on opposite sides.
 

Below Left and Right: Anna Anderson. Center: Karl Maucher (Franziska's great-nephew)


 Below: (Top) Anastasia's handwriting.  (Center) Franziska's handwriting (Bottom) Anna Anderson's handwriting. Notice how the way Anastasia's
"s" differs from how both Franziska and Anna wrote their "s" and how similar both the "s" and the "k" are between Franziska and Anna.


Below: From Left to Right: Anna Anderson, Waltraud (Felix Schanzkowski's daughter), Anna Anderson and Felix Schanzkowski.

And enlargement of the series above. Note the remarkable resemblance between their mouths.


Below: From Left to Right: Anna Anderson, Tatiana Nikolaivena Romanova (Anastasia's sister), Maria-Juliana Schanzkowska (Franziska's sister), Anna Anderson. At first glance one can see some similarity between AA and Tatiana, but then when one looks at the photograph of Maira-Juliana one can see the ways AA differs from Tatiana and how much she resembles Maria-Juliana (Franziska's sister).


Another comparrison of Anna Anderson's lips (Left) and Felix Schanzkowska's daughter Waultrad




Offline Foxglove

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To be fair to Ms. Wingender, it was said that a part of the money was compensation for time off work, when she had to meet with individuals concerning Anna. I think anyone in her position would have asked for expenses to be covered, too. The rest of the money was extra for her time and the information, which is where the controversy begins, as some frown upon it, and feel any information on her part should have been voluntary.


Quote
To verify the story ,the newspaper hired a detective, Martin Knopf, who took the clothing Franziska had left behind at the Wingenders' to one of the Russian emigre households where Fraulein U. had stayed in 1922. Baron and Baroness von Kleist recognized it. "I bought the camel's hair myself." said the baron, "That's the underwear I monogrammed myself" cried the baroness. For the benefit of the newspapers, the "Riddle of Anastasia" was solved.

According to a sworn affidavit by the Baroness von Kleist from 1929, she denied the written account of the story written in the Nachtausgabe. However, I never understood why the reporter full-out lied and printed a false story. Allegations of being paid off by Grand Duke Ernest aside, surely someone at that paper would have spilled his guts if something was amiss concerning this story. Moreover, why did neither the Baron nor Baroness von Kleist sue the paper, or threaten to sue it (or the reporter) if they felt the article was defamatory, or slanderous to Anna, as well as to their own personal beliefs concerning her identity? Why not demand a retraction of the story, or even go to another paper and insist the story printed by the Nachtausgabe was completely false? Better yet, why not notarize a sworn affidavit two years earlier and have it published by a rival paper? Now that would give the public something to talk about!


Quote
... Mrs. Tchiakovsky (AA) faced with charges of assuming a false identity, had no choice. According to a writer for the Berlin Nachtausgabe, who was present with Martin Knopf, this is what happened:

The witness, Fr. Doris Wingender, enters the room. Franziska Schanzkowska lies on the divan, her face half covered with a blanket. The witness has barely said 'good day' before FS jerks up and cries in a heavily accented voice "That THING must get out!" The sudden agitation, the wild rage in her voice, the horror in her eyes, leave no doubt, she has recognized Wingender.

Wingender stands as if turned to stone. She has immediately recognized the lady on the divan as FS. That is the same face she saw day after day for four years. That is the same voice, the same nervous trick with the handkerchief, that is the same Franziska Schanzkowksa.[/i]

We had the reporter, Martin Knopf, Doris Wingender, Anna, and who else was present? If this account is also believed to have been falsified, what did Anna’s supports claim actually happened? I am curious to know both sides.