Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4  (Read 71690 times)

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ferrymansdaughter

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What a complete load of old garbage Ferrymansdaughter. Get a life and stop trying to pathetically defend AA as you haven't a leg to stand on. She was a fraud and it is very well documented.

Do you always make personal attacks like this on people who disagree with you?    It suggests you are not as secure in your opinion as you would have us believe.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 11:37:07 AM by ferrymansdaughter »

Offline Annie

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What a complete load of old garbage Ferrymansdaughter. Get a life and stop trying to pathetically defend AA as you haven't a leg to stand on. She was a fraud and it is very well documented.

Do you always make personal attacks like this on people who disagree with you?    It suggests you are not as secure in your opinion as you would have us believe.

No, those of us who know AA was a fraud are more than sure. It's just that the endless defense of her and the same old useless crap about why you say she's not FS being regurgitated gets very old, tiring and frustrating. It's not an 'opinion' that AA was not AN and was FS, it's proven fact. We now need to move on to HOW she ran this charade for so many years and not keep dwelling on 'what if it was her' because IT WASN'T!!

and this thread can be put to rest because she was not murdered by Grossmann! She died in VA in 1984.

ferrymansdaughter

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Come on if someone is paid off and it was publically known they'd go to jail.



Quote below from Gleb Botkin's book regarding an interview he and Dr Voller (send end of quote) had with Doris Wingender.    (You may believe it or not).  I'm off now - have a good weekend!

"As we had hoped, she gave herself away completely. She could not even answer questions pertaining to what she claimed to have been her own experiences, without consulting a notebook. The Police inspector adroitly manaeuvred her into letting him see that notebook, and in it we discovered notes dictated by the same Detective Knopf. We caught her in any number of inconsistensies and some completely absurd statements. Thus, she asserted among other things that she knew Anastasia to be Francisca because Francisca's teeth had all been black and decayed. While many of Anastaisa's teeth had had to be extracted, she did not have and never did have a single black tooth in her mouth.
Finally, we induced our charming guest to show us her contract with the newspaper, which had published the Francisca story, and whose editor, by the way, had been paid 25,000 marks by the Grand Duke of Hessen-Darmstadt for doing so. Although we had supposed that her contract was likely to be somewhat irregular, we were nevertheless quite astonished to discover that she had been paid fifteen hundred marks to recognise Anastasia as Francisca, before she had even seen the Grand Duchess.
The Police Inspector almost laughed himself to tears at the stupidity with which the prostitute was falling into every trap set for her. By the end of the dinner he called us aside and congratulated us on our skill as detectives.
"There can be no question that the whole business about Francisca is a frame-up," he said. "And you may rest assured that Mrs. Tschaikovsky will not be given Francisca's passport. Moreover, should you be willing to make a complaint, I shall have the prostitute arrested for perjury and entering a fraudulent agreement. You have gathered enough material to make a jail sentence for the woman certain."
While I felt inclined to feel sorry for the woman, who, after all, was but a stupid creature not likely to refuse fifteen hundred marks for any service, I wanted nevertheless to make the necessary complaint against her. But the Duke of Leuchtenberg, Mrs. von Rathlef, and several others begged me not to do so. They insisted that to have that prostitute put in jail for a few months would achieve nothing, extcept to forewarn our chief enemy, the Grand Duke of Hessen-Darmstadt.
(The questioning of the woman by Dr. Völler, the officer or the Berlin Criminal Police, and myself was recorded in two protocols of May 19th and May 21st, 1927. Her mother and sister were questioned later with similar results, as shown by the protocol fo May 24th, 1927.)


[My italics]

Offline AGRBear

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I guess this needs to repeated:

Peter Kurth's  ANASTASIA p. 6:

 [AA's] >>...pictures and prints were sent out to Stuttgart, Brunswick, Hamburg, Munich, Dresden-- to all the corners of the Weimar Repulbic.  Meanwhile, the police looked into some clues nearer to home.  The records of all Berlin's hospital and madhouses were dutifully checked for missing and discharged patients who fitted Fraulein Unbekannt's description, while mothers who had lost their daughters in the city, and husbands their wives, were sometimes brought out to Dalldorf to look at her.  She had already been seen by the brother of a certain Maria Andrecewsky (who shook his head and went home depressed) when she was asked point blank if she was another Maria, surnamed Wachowiak, who had disappeared recently from the city of Posen, to the east.<<

So we know of atleast two other missing perons. 
1) Maria Andrecewsky
2) Maria Wachowiak


Maybe,  just maybe,  the people in the asylums who had known and treated FS didn't reconize her from her  mug shots taken in March by the Berlin police?

Maybe,  the police  didn't ask the right questions of the right people who would have known FS.

This is  Kurth's reply:

p. 7
>>Noboby leamed the Berlin police when they gave up on this case.  They had exhausted their resources and had never realy expected their efforts in other parts of Germany to succeed.  They didn't believe the unknown woman was German, to start with.  A doctor at the Elisabeth Hopital had suggested that she might come from Bavaria, but no one at headquarters agreed.  There was a note in the bulletin of the Dalldorf Asylum:  "It is known that she conversed in Russian with the sisters, nursing her."

I do not believe AA was GD Anastasia.  However,  I'm not sure AA was FS.

This thread is about FS's  Timeline!!!

AGRBear


« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 12:52:46 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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What a complete load of old garbage Ferrymansdaughter. Get a life and stop trying to pathetically defend AA as you haven't a leg to stand on. She was a fraud and it is very well documented.

Do you always make personal attacks like this on people who disagree with you?    It suggests you are not as secure in your opinion as you would have us believe.

No, those of us who know AA was a fraud are more than sure. It's just that the endless defense of her and the same old useless crap about why you say she's not FS being regurgitated gets very old, tiring and frustrating. It's not an 'opinion' that AA was not AN and was FS, it's proven fact. We now need to move on to HOW she ran this charade for so many years and not keep dwelling on 'what if it was her' because IT WASN'T!!

and this thread can be put to rest because she was not murdered by Grossmann! She died in VA in 1984.


 I  ask that  respect is needed between ALL posters  and it's not necessary to blow up another thread because Annie, who has written with disrespect,  has every hope for those who don't agree to return a post  with disrespect. 

Back to FS and Grossmann.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 01:47:38 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Annie

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Back to FS and Grossmann? Everything has been said and there is evidence that the info was not taken seriously at the trial. There's nothing more to discuss other than ideas for a bad novel.

Offline Annie

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I take into consideration that a book written by Gleb Botkin is going to be heavily in favor of AA's claim. With his incredible creative ability as a writer and an artist, he can spin quite a story, so we don't know everything in it is exactly as it happened. I can't accept that fictional book as a valid source of factual and unbiased information.

Offline AGRBear

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...[in part]....
 We can NEVER really have a good discussion on how we think  ...[in part].... So please leave this .... thread and take the AA/AN stuff to one of the others, thanks.

Your word on your own thread,  not mine, however,  I think it's a good idea since  this is a thread about FS's   TIMELiNE not AA's.   ::)

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Back to FS and Grossmann? Everything has been said and there is evidence that the info was not taken seriously at the trial. There's nothing more to discuss other than ideas for a bad novel.

When the evidence was sent to the courts  for AA's trial  it seems that most of the information was missing  [misplaced;  destroyed;  not sent; ???], therefore,  it was of no use. Don't read into this as meaning the evidence wasn't taken "seriously".   The evidence wasn't there to be entered.  At least this is what I understand to be the case.

I am out of here for awhile.

Too much  "same old,  same old".....

AGRBear



« Last Edit: July 20, 2007, 07:03:01 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline dmitri

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Yes the same old rubbish from you AGRBear. 

Offline dmitri

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Yet more Kurth rubbish. Funny how nobody else has written any credible book in AA's defence. No serious historian would waste their time on such garbage when it has been proven that AA was a fraud. 

ferrymansdaughter

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I take into consideration that a book written by Gleb Botkin is going to be heavily in favor of AA's claim. With his incredible creative ability as a writer and an artist, he can spin quite a story, so we don't know everything in it is exactly as it happened. I can't accept that fictional book as a valid source of factual and unbiased information.

I believe it was published as non-fiction actually .  I am trying to find out if the protocols mentioned still exist and if Gleb's account was corroborated by the police.

ferrymansdaughter

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Yes the same old rubbish from you AGRBear. 

Dmitri I have yet to see you post something informative.  Your sole purpose here appears to be to insult people who disagree with you.   No wonder Bear has got bored with it all -  I am beginning to sympathise.

Offline Eddie_uk

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Why bother?
Grief is the price we pay for love.

FREE PALESTINE.

ferrymansdaughter

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Why bother?

Because if it WAS then a) either the police were all "in on the fraud" which I doubt or b) Gleb is telling the truth