Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4  (Read 74410 times)

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #135 on: August 12, 2007, 11:30:51 AM »
yawn how boring yet again

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #136 on: August 12, 2007, 11:34:28 AM »
This is the site of which we are discussing:  http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/PrinceFriedrich.html


Step #5:

>>Franziska was finally declared 'not cured, but not dangerous' and discharged; she was taken in by a family called Wingender, almost as a charity case. <<

I'm not sure who told us this but this information has been repeated so many times that it seems to have taken up the role of  being a  fact without a direct source.   Is this from Massie,  too?

Does anyone know how the Wingenders first heard about FS and why they became interested in her?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:03:28 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #137 on: August 12, 2007, 11:35:53 AM »
More boring rubbish AGR Bear.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #138 on: August 12, 2007, 11:57:15 AM »
This is the site of which we are discussing:  http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/PrinceFriedrich.html

Step #6:

>>The next period of her life she spent in and out of sanatoria, swallowing pills and complaining of headaches. Her favorite pastime was lying in bed, reading history books from the local library.<<

This has also been repeated many times.  I assume the source comes from the Wingenders.

AGRBear

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #139 on: August 12, 2007, 12:05:50 PM »
Let me remind you what Helen has recently stated over on another thread:

This is why it's always a good idea to check sources in books if possible, and not just take information for granted... Sometimes this information could be based on unsubstantiated rumors, or simply just blown out of proportion....

Of course,  after reading the sources,  my opinion on a point in a topic may differ than yours or the authors or even the person who was making the quote [the source itself].

This is the source and the  site from which these quotes came from  which we are discussing:  http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/PrinceFriedrich.html

AGRBear
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:11:28 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #140 on: August 12, 2007, 12:21:35 PM »
This is the source and the  site from which these quotes came from  which we are discussing:  http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/PrinceFriedrich.html

>>From 1919 to 1920 then Franziska worked in a brewery in Buetow washing bottles.<<

Where did this information come from?

If this is true:  I had not known this.

I'll have to look up this town and see where Buetow  is and how close it is to Berlin.

If true:  Was FS  staying at the Wingenders at this time?

Small correction: 
From what I understand,  there is evidence  that FS was working in the asparagus fields near Berlin sometime in  Jan. to sometime in Feb. of 1920.


AGRBear
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:28:16 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #141 on: August 12, 2007, 12:36:54 PM »
Here is a site with some interesting information about Buetow.

http://members.tripod.com/~radde/Milestones.html

See the history of Pomeranian around the years 1919 to 1932.

map:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image%3APommern_Kr_B%C3%BCtow.png

Still don't see how close it is to Berlin:
map #2
http://kaszuby.bytow.pl/radde/Buetow-Kreiskarte.gif

map#3
http://www.hinterpommern.de/Karten/Buetow/gemeinden.png

AGRBear
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 12:53:54 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #142 on: August 12, 2007, 01:23:27 PM »
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=64922&rendTypeId=4

This shows the general areas of Prussia.

Note the distance of Berlin to Pomerania

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #143 on: August 12, 2007, 02:21:34 PM »
If you go to mapquest or another map finder,  look for the name Bytow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byt%C3%B3w

Seeing the distance from Berlin,  it doesn't seem to me that FS would have traveled from Buetow/ Bytwo every night.   

How much in touch were the Wingenders with FS during this time?

Did she return to the Wingenders on the weekends???

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Olishka~ Pincess

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #144 on: August 12, 2007, 02:56:28 PM »
Dmitri I can understand i know I also think it is boring more information about that fraud it seems people are still trying to defend AA once again but realy noboby cares about her their not intrested, but obviously Bear is ignoring you becuase they want to still talk about AA as if she was famous and did great things that is just their choice no point in even saying anything. Let them believe whatever they want.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 03:00:44 PM by Elizabeth~Princess »

Offline Annie

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #145 on: August 12, 2007, 04:23:50 PM »
If you go to mapquest or another map finder,  look for the name Bytow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byt%C3%B3w

Seeing the distance from Berlin,  it doesn't seem to me that FS would have traveled from Buetow/ Bytwo every night.   

How much in touch were the Wingenders with FS during this time?

Did she return to the Wingenders on the weekends???

AGRBear

If she was working out of town for days at a time, that would be a good reason to explain why they didn't think anything of her being gone so long, and why they took so long to report her as missing.

What are the sources of the aparagus field? These jobs are either conflicting, or the timeline is off. I would guess she had worked on the farm the year before, and was working at the bottle factory just before she went missing.

The bad thing about letting people believe whatever they want is that it might mislead someone coming here for answers. So as long as bear is putting this stuff out there, I will continue to respond.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #146 on: August 12, 2007, 04:47:30 PM »
yawn its like a broken record

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #147 on: August 12, 2007, 06:50:45 PM »

The bad thing about letting people believe whatever they want is that it might mislead someone coming here for answers. So as long as bear is putting this stuff out there, I will continue to respond.
Yes that is true that would be the wrong information, but they just don't want to believe the truth that is their choose. :-X But don't you get sick and tied of hearing the same suff over and over again like a broken record over and over again! It is true that it would not be a good idea for them to leave out the wrong info for people to read and believe it.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 06:56:53 PM by Elizabeth~Princess »

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #148 on: August 12, 2007, 09:09:52 PM »
If you go to mapquest or another map finder,  look for the name Bytow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byt%C3%B3w

Seeing the distance from Berlin,  it doesn't seem to me that FS would have traveled from Buetow/ Bytwo every night.   

How much in touch were the Wingenders with FS during this time?

Did she return to the Wingenders on the weekends???

AGRBear

If she was working out of town for days at a time, that would be a good reason to explain why they didn't think anything of her being gone so long, and why they took so long to report her as missing.

Yes,  this could be one of the reasons if she was in Buetow or in the asparagus fields.

Quote

What are the sources of the aparagus field? These jobs are either conflicting, or the timeline is off. I would guess she had worked on the farm the year before, and was working at the bottle factory just before she went missing.

Yes, the times are conflicting.

And,  you are speculating without any kind of proof that FS was not working in asparagus fields in Jan. and into Feb. 1920 because you are  using this article which tells us that FS washing bottles most of 1919 and into Feb. of 1920.

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?action=post;msg=277298;topic=2782.165;sesc=fb6093b0049e273740e9792f1bcdedb8
>>From 1919 to 1920 then Franziska worked in a brewery in Buetow washing bottles.<<

Another note to this:   Wingenders may  have been stretching the truth when they claim she was sitting in bed all those days [after she left the sanitatium where she was placed after the accident at the factory to the time they reported her missing 9 March 1920],  popping pills and reading history books when in fact she was working at a brewery and aspagagus fields.

I have been told  there are/were  records which tell us that FS was working in a brewery and  asparagus fields outside of Berlin and there is testimony from people who worked at that time with her.   I don't know the exact dates.  I do  recall the months of Jan. and Feb. of 1920 she was working in the asparagus fields.

At another time somewhere on this forum,  Annie disputed the fact that people worked in asparagus fields in those months,  one of our posters linked us to a site which told us some background on asparagus and that indeed these months were busy times for workers in these fields.  [Maybe some can remember where this was discussed and link it here.].

What difference does it make that FS was working first in a brewery and then the fields?  Evidently,  she was making a living so she could survive like others in and around Berlin were doing at that time. 

Also,  it seems to me,  FS  wasn't living full time with the Wingenders either.

Quote
The bad thing about letting people believe whatever they want is that it might mislead someone coming here for answers. So as long as bear is putting this stuff out there, I will continue to respond.

You have stated that you believe all the information on this particular site http://www.raphaelvishanu-world.at/PrinceFriedrich.html
 is true and that you are using some of it in one of your own articles.   Perhaps you could view what I'm doing not as being destructive but constructive.  Believe it or not,   I'd like your article to be accurate.

AGRBear





« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 09:16:01 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #149 on: August 12, 2007, 09:14:43 PM »
The record is not just cracked, it is now broken and only fit for the trash bin. Yawn!!