Author Topic: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4  (Read 72450 times)

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Offline Annie

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #255 on: September 10, 2007, 06:47:08 PM »
Yes, I don't think any other claimant or pretender has had the devoted cult following AA has.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #256 on: September 10, 2007, 07:01:48 PM »
So if you really think about it, FS didn't have such a sad life after all, at least compared to what she could have ended up as. I mean, she was wined and dined often, and supported most of her life after she "became" Anna Anderson/Anastasia. She didn't have to work for a living for the rest of her life, because some people did buy into her claim. She even got to marry a rich American professor from North Carolina who was more than a decade younger than her. Albeit, he wasn't playing with a full deck, but still, she got to live in a big house in an nice area, she got her American citizenship, she got to do whatever she wanted, including have hundreds of cats. If it wasn't for that, what would she have had? At best, she would have been stuck at mental hospitals in Germany for the rest of her life (and back then, mental hospitals were not a walk in the park). Most likely she would have been euthanized by the Nazis during the 1930's due to her mental illness. So think about that for a minute... Her life could have been a lot sadder (not to mention a lot shorter) than it was as Anna Anderson.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #257 on: September 10, 2007, 11:57:37 PM »
You raise very valid points Helen A. I think many others had far sadder lives. They no doubt deserve far more attention than AA.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #258 on: September 12, 2007, 04:59:23 PM »
Jack Manahan was many things, but he was always a Virginian, never from North Carolina.

We will probably never know if AA was a deliberate fraud, mentally ill, or anything else. As someone who deals routinely with the mentally ill, I confess I bristle when I see any of you label her a fraud - because it's purely speculation on your part - and many here pronounce this as though it were a fact. My opinion, and we are all entitled to one, is that she was probably mentally ill. There is a mental illness that is clinically observable in which the patient imagines she/he comes from a royal or aristocratic background - and is not.

A little compassion would go a long way.

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #259 on: September 12, 2007, 06:38:01 PM »
Jack Manahan was many things, but he was always a Virginian, never from North Carolina.

Oops, sorry, Virginia... You know how us Yankees are, we don't know the difference! ;-)

Lisa, Anna Anderson was obviously mentally ill AND she was obviously a fraud - whether she was aware of it or not - she was a fraud, we just don't whose fraud: her own or someone else's...

There is a mental illness that is clinically observable in which the patient imagines she/he comes from a royal or aristocratic background - and is not.

Yes, I just said that:

A lot of mentally ill people have delusions of grandeur and fancy themselves someone famous, most often some kind of [missing] royalty, etc. Thre were many many dauphins of France for example, and other "royal survivors" throughout the ages. This is fairly common, so AA and her situation is not unique in any sense of the word...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2007, 06:40:18 PM by Helen_A »

Offline Belochka

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #260 on: September 12, 2007, 08:41:50 PM »
... We will probably never know if AA was a deliberate fraud, mentally ill, or anything else. ...  I confess I bristle when I see any of you label her a fraud - because it's purely speculation on your part - and many here pronounce this as though it were a fact. My opinion, and we are all entitled to one, is that she was probably mentally ill.

A little compassion would go a long way.

Sure Lisa, we can indeed demonstrate our compassion for those who are mentally challenged in some way, but it is rather more difficult to feel sympathetic towards a woman who blossomed after she knowingly colluded in the perversion of the truth. She failed to say: NO, I have had enough, I want to be me. The lady cowered from those she selectively prefered not to meet. Why such a performance if she was "ill"? Yes we all agree that she became unwell in her later years, but it is her past behavior which remains strongly in our minds.

She attempted to steal the identity of one so noble and grand in order to mislead. She gained favorably (not monetary) from her deceptive behavior and with all these identified considerations, in my estimation her less than imperious performance was fraudulent.

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Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #261 on: September 13, 2007, 09:28:40 AM »
Yes I have to agree Margarita. I find little, if anything, admirable about her fraudulent behaviour. It is something others would be ashamed of.

Offline Lemur

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #262 on: September 13, 2007, 09:35:51 AM »
She attempted to steal the identity of one so noble and grand in order to mislead. She gained favorably (not monetary) from her deceptive behavior and with all these identified considerations, in my estimation her less than imperious performance was fraudulent.

Margarita[/color]

I can feel sorry for FS wanting to commit suicide, and I can feel sorry for elderly, obviously unstable AA, but I do think the AA of the trial period was a deliberate fraud who deserves nothing but scorn for what she made others endure for her own attempts at finanacial gain.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #263 on: September 13, 2007, 10:05:34 AM »
Yes she certainly didn't appear to care too much about real relatives of the last Tsar and Tsarina.

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #264 on: September 13, 2007, 11:59:19 AM »
Yes she certainly didn't appear to care too much about real relatives of the last Tsar and Tsarina.
Of course she did not even know them that well.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #265 on: September 13, 2007, 12:36:39 PM »
yes she did not know them at all apart from when they visited and then they did not find the slightest resemblance between her and their real niece who sadly had died in Ekaterinburg

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #266 on: September 13, 2007, 02:28:06 PM »
yes she did not know them at all apart from when they visited and then they did not find the slightest resemblance between her and their real niece who sadly had died in Ekaterinburg
In fact AA never meet any of the imperial family only when Olga and Irene and other family met AA sometime in the 1920's and after that. The point is she never knew the family well and did not have any features or looks related to Anastasia what so ever. Aunt Olga and Xenia knew their neice so well they knew the imposter was not ANASTASIA.

Offline PrincessSophie

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #267 on: September 14, 2007, 12:56:27 AM »
Jack Manahan was many things, but he was always a Virginian, never from North Carolina.

We will probably never know if AA was a deliberate fraud, mentally ill, or anything else. As someone who deals routinely with the mentally ill, I confess I bristle when I see any of you label her a fraud - because it's purely speculation on your part - and many here pronounce this as though it were a fact. My opinion, and we are all entitled to one, is that she was probably mentally ill. There is a mental illness that is clinically observable in which the patient imagines she/he comes from a royal or aristocratic background - and is not.

A little compassion would go a long way.

I confess, Lisa, that I too used to baulk when I saw the word fraud.  But even if she was mentally ill (which in a legal sense suggests diminished capacity), isn't the result the same?  She passed herself off as someone she was not and people were hurt by her actions.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #268 on: September 14, 2007, 01:38:32 AM »
Taking the very kindest viewpoint, Anderson simply was not who she claimed to be. Stronger viewpoints label her with less subtle language.

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Re: Re: Franziska -An Interesting Story on Her own - A Timeline of Her Life #4
« Reply #269 on: September 14, 2007, 05:21:05 AM »
The point was she never learned Russian or English she did not know any at all she never even learned it. That also points out why she was not AA. Some say she forgotten the langauhes but that is false she never knew the langauges. Only Polish and bad German.