Author Topic: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....  (Read 25762 times)

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Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2007, 02:16:54 PM »
There is one simple word which answers your questions - FAITH.   

I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstand this. Are you saying that the answer to my question  "Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe that the remains found in Ekaterinburg are authentic?" is "Faith"?  I may be a little dense, but I still don't get it... what does faith have to do with ROC's conviction that these remains are not authentic?

Not to go off the subject, but tsaria, is there a difference in definition between "faith" and "dogma"?

IMO, having faith in general is a good thing for society for the most part, however, should logic be thrown away in favor of "faith"?  Should "faith" be used as an excuse for denial of irrefutable facts? If this were the case, we would still believe that the earth is flat or that the sun revolves around the earth... Too much faith can be a dangerous thing too, when it means closing your eyes and ears to reality...

*** If I offend anyone with my post, I apologize, it's not meant to be offensive.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 02:23:57 PM by Helen_A »

Offline ChristineM

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2007, 03:23:20 PM »
You certainly have caused me no offence whatsoever, Helen.   In religious terms, dogma - is man-made.   Faith - is physically, mentally and emotionally intangible.

I am sorry for the confusion.   I was trying, rather clumsily, to point out that Orthodoxy is fundamental and brooks no divergence.

tsaria

Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2007, 05:01:33 PM »
Helen, to clarify- The ROV has not denied the remains are those of the Romanovs, they have stated they are not convinced they are.  They can, and most likely eventually will, in time, recognize them as authentic. Not anytime soon, though I feel.
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Offline Belochka

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2007, 06:48:29 PM »
Helen, to clarify- The ROV has not denied the remains are those of the Romanovs, they have stated they are not convinced they are.  They can, and most likely eventually will, in time, recognize them as authentic. Not anytime soon, though I feel.

It may be of interest to some of you to learn that the Moscow Patriarch gave his full endorsement that the first set of 1991 Ekaterinburg remains be transferred to Ekaterinburg and re-examined along with the second 2007 Ekaterinburg remains.

This is indeed welcoming.

Margarita


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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2007, 08:59:01 PM »
That was supposed to be ROC, of course.
 Interesting that he is now willing to have those remains re-tested. Some samples have already been sent to Ekaterinburg as I understand it. Did you not post the pictures of that, Margarita?  In any case, I can only imagine wany re-testing will  simply re-confirm the original findings. I could be wrong here, but I do not hink there is any way to differentiate one GD from another via DNA, so other evidence must be taken into consideration to determine actually which GD was in which grave. Personally, I do not it makes any real difference.   Even to the ROC.
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Offline dmitri

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2007, 12:38:19 AM »
Well once the DNA tests have been done all the remains of the Romanovs murdered in Ekaterinburg will finally be buried together in the St. Catherine Chapel.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2007, 12:46:10 AM »
I think there is a somewhat negative impression in the West especially regarding the ROC because of their not accepting the identification of the remains from 1991. It may help to improve this impression if the Church now accepts the scientific evidence as correct as does most of the rest of the world.

Offline Tania+

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2007, 06:39:06 PM »
Lisa, perhaps there is some negativity in the West when it comes to the ROC not accepting the identifications of the remains from 1981. Still, the church is working to reform its views, and meet with all involved in church matters, etc., so that its public persona will be understood expressly. I think it is the sameness of what is transpiring throughout Russia, in government reforms, etc. God willing, it will evolve more and more with less negativity. As Tsaria expressed of late, faith is something that comes from within. I think many of us never thought we would see a Russia as today, but with hard work, it has evolved much since 1917. May Russia continue to open up, and grow, as well with faith.

Tatiana+
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Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2012, 09:31:34 AM »
"Moscow Patriarchate to Reconsider its Position on Royal Remains?"

As reported by Paul Gilbert:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/news/502news.html
инок Николай

Offline LadyHezter

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2012, 09:37:49 AM »
Thank You Inok Nikolai for posting the link !

LadyH.

Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2012, 09:49:27 AM »
Thank You Inok Nikolai for posting the link !

LadyH.


You're welcome.

BTW: A thread has been started on this topic:
http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17216.msg509944#msg509944
инок Николай

Offline Rodney_G.

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2012, 02:24:25 PM »
In response to the original question: The ROC since the Revolution , and especially its Bolshevik/communist incarnation, was  somewhere betwen outright hostile to  to generally  skeptical about institutional state (communist) authority, and for good reason. The Communists were militantly atheistic and would have destroyed the Church if it could have. It almost did. The  Soviets undermined , weakened, and/ or coopted the ROC.

The ROC naturally distrusted the Soviet government , even in minor matters. The Ekaterinburg remains were under Soviet "control' ,so to speak, for 73 years, and the fall of Communism in Russia couldn't mitigate the ROC's distrust overnight. Having a former KGB  head (Putin) as President or Prime Minister could hardly be reassuring. In a matter as sensitive to the ROC"s heart as the authentication  and burial of the IF 's remains, the ROC's suspicions are almost understandable, though in this case,  as the world scientific community has proved ,still  excessive.

In my view, this whole thing is another unfortunate legacy of the USSR, even though it's been gone for twenty years. I hope the ROC can come around to accepting the remains as authentic without feleing it's comromising its religious tenets.
Rodney G.

Offline TimM

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2012, 10:55:18 AM »
Quote
In my view, this whole thing is another unfortunate legacy of the USSR, even though it's been gone for twenty years

Yeah, the USSR may be dead, but its ghost will continue to haunt Russia for years to come.
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Offline Robert_Hall

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2012, 02:19:57 PM »
I think not any more than the tyranny of the Empire. The huge class differences,  along with other lethal ailments. The glory may be preserved, the bodies long buried and the pages turned, but that legacy is there as well. This romanticism with royalty is  just a hobby to history.  It is the actions that go on record.
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Offline Inok Nikolai

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2013, 03:33:16 PM »
Paul Gilbert on the ROC's continuing doubts about the relics:


ROC Still Doubts Authenticity of Russian Royal Family Remains
Friday, 9 August 2013
http://www.angelfire.com/pa/ImperialRussian/blog/index.blog/1449038/roc-still-doubts-authenticity-of-russian-royal-family-remains/
инок Николай