Author Topic: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....  (Read 24370 times)

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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2013, 12:13:35 AM »
It's a shame that this still hasn't been satisfactorily resolved. 7 years will be Fall 2014. If the two missing ones still have not been buried by then, it will be concerning. at least to me.

Offline TimM

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2013, 11:18:11 AM »
What kind of dolts are running the ROC?  DNA has PROVEN all the Romanovs have been accounted for.  Why all the feet dragging?
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Offline Georgiy

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2013, 11:52:35 PM »
It is important because any Relics for venration must be genuine. That is why, I think, one of the reasons it is taking some time. Please do not suggest they are dolts.

Offline edubs31

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2013, 06:51:13 AM »
It is important because any Relics for venration must be genuine. That is why, I think, one of the reasons it is taking some time. Please do not suggest they are dolts.

It's a shame though. The time that is supposedly necessary to resolve these types of matters. None of us are getting any younger and with each passing year there are a select number of individuals, some of whom passionately involved in the subject, who pass on without receiving that closure.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right...

Offline Превед

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #34 on: November 14, 2013, 01:04:14 PM »
This must be the ROC at its most Byzantine, wanting to appear like some sort of ambiguous oracle who can't be wrong either way. Hard to gasp for Protestants coming from a landscape where it's a virtue to be as divisive as possible.
Берёзы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и берёзы, 1843 / 1856)

Offline TimM

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2013, 11:07:49 AM »
Quote
It is important because any Relics for venration must be genuine. That is why, I think, one of the reasons it is taking some time. Please do not suggest they are dolts.


DNA is an exact science.  Not my fault if the ROC doesn't want to join the 21st Century.
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Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #36 on: November 22, 2013, 07:12:26 PM »
>>"In my opinion, a very wide range of competent experts, not necessarily just Orthodox experts, should be allowed to study the discovered remains," Father Vsevolod said.
 
It is important both to compare the DNA of some individual fragment with the DNA of the remains of other Imperial Family members, assess the wholeness of the skeletons, establish whether or not all of the found human remains have the same DNA and confirm the presence of former injuries, for example the injury that was sustained by Tsar Nicholas II during his trip to Japan when he was the heir to the Russian throne, the archpriest said.
 
There is also a need to compare different theories describing how the bodies were disposed of and buried, he said.<<

It appears to me that Father Vsevolod and his group would feel more comfortable having experts they know and trust to test the individual fragments, assess the skeleton and establish former injuries, etc. etc. etc..  Their church has a huge following and I'm sure they want to be right in their conclusion.

AGRBear
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Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #37 on: November 22, 2013, 07:24:17 PM »
To be sure, I can understand why the ROC "wants to be right", but from a scientific perspective, the testing is complete and to demand more tests could risk there not being enough samples left for veneration. At a certain point, enough is enough.

What is to stop them from wanting still more tests if more testing is done? There is a difference between science and belief. Scientifically, there is no need and I just can't see where more science is going to resolve a difficulty of belief.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2013, 04:35:18 PM »
What kind of dolts are running the ROC?  DNA has PROVEN all the Romanovs have been accounted for.  Why all the feet dragging?

Perhaps if the Russian officials had given the church  representatives involvement in the various testings,  the church would not feel the need to redo everything so they could feel comfortable about the various results.

The church has a room full of reasons not to trust the government that turned their churches into stables just a short time ago, so, give the church all the time and cooperation needed for them to make their own testing, discoveries and conclusions.

As for using up all the bones for tests,  I don't think the Royal Family would mind that their church, with whom they gave their hearts and souls,  have any doubts that their church have only  good intentions in seeking the truth.   

AGRBear





"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #39 on: November 24, 2013, 01:52:01 AM »
I can understand some mistrust of their own scientists, but the fact remains that a great deal of the work was done abroad, primarily in the United Kingdom and the United States.

Our governments have not turned our churches into stables.

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2014, 07:02:14 PM »
When I was speaking of the "turning churches into stables",  I was referring to the time of the Russian Revolution until the fall of communism....  I'm not sure when the anti-religion ban was lifted but it wasn't all that long ago....  The  communists under the leaders of Lenin, Stalin and others did not believe in God.   Churches are being rebuilt, now, but many villages still have only ruins.

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #41 on: October 07, 2014, 01:10:57 AM »
I should also make it clear that I am not an Orthodox Christian, I am a severely lapsed Catholic practicing as an Episcopalian. I respect the Orthodox Church even though I confess I don't understand their stance on the remains.

Offline TimM

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #42 on: October 07, 2014, 07:15:48 AM »
Quote
The  communists under the leaders of Lenin, Stalin and others did not believe in God.

The reason was because they saw God as the competition.  Lenin and Stalin thought the people should bow to them and no one else.
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Offline DNAgenie

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #43 on: October 07, 2014, 08:22:06 PM »
It might be hard for Westerners to understand why the Russian Orthodox Church might choose not to believe, but the situation looks rather different from inside Russia.

See the thread at http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17938.0  for more details.

Offline Превед

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Re: Why does the Russian Orthodox Church chooses not to believe....
« Reply #44 on: October 08, 2014, 03:34:45 AM »
It might be hard for Westerners to understand why the Russian Orthodox Church might choose not to believe, but the situation looks rather different from inside Russia.

See the thread at http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=17938.0  for more details.

The last year's events have full well demonstrated how the Russian body politick is guided by manipulation, conspiracy theories, irrationality and misinformation, so it's now no longer a wonder that the Orthodox Church, another of the state's propaganda machines, deliberately "chooses not to believe", just like the Russian body politick "chooses not to believe" that they are being misgoverned by a manipulative criminal.
Берёзы севера мне милы,
Их грустный, опущённый вид,
Как речь безмолвная могилы,
Горячку сердца холодит.

(Афанасий Фет: Ивы и берёзы, 1843 / 1856)