Author Topic: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry  (Read 67081 times)

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Offline Ex-Princess Lisa

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Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« on: September 15, 2007, 03:12:54 PM »
I have heard some information with regards to Romanov DNA and I would like other peoples views on it.

"The male Purcell Y chromosome and the male Romanov Y chromosome is basically the same. only a few fast mutating markers difference.
This would indicate a common male ancestor.
Historically this would make sense, because the Romanovs were meant to have descended from Byzantine Royalty and the Purcells are descendents of Sir Percival, who was the same male line as Charlemagne, who was meant to have descended from Byzantine Royalty.
It is a J haplotype."

Does anyone have good knowledge of Byzantine Royalty? Could anyone comment on the historical statement - were Romanovs descended in the male line from Byzantine Royalty?
I cannot remember where I read Charlemagne was descended from Byzantine royalty, any ideas anyone? There is conflicting information on Charlemagnes ancestory.

However I do know that most of the Irish Purcell bloodline was wiped out by Cromwells army. Certaintly the ones that were left had their lands, castle and titles taken away from them. Their very existence all but wiped out of the history books.


Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2007, 03:15:39 AM »
Why ex Princess Lisa?
To us you will always be a Princess.  :)
anyway, the Romanovs are clear and undisputed direct descendants of quite a few Byzantine Imperial Families.
The first that comes to mind is Ivan III, his father was a brother of the last Emperor Constantine.There is a link that Lucien just posted on it.
Also, the first Christianized Tsar in the 9th century married a Byzantine princess,Very political that one was, apparently he got offered the bride and Royal Titles etc if he stopped attacking Black sea realms of the Byzantine Empire etc etc etc.Try a google search with Romanov and Byzantine descent and I am certain you will get lots of answers.
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline Ex-Princess Lisa

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2007, 02:11:34 PM »
I was talking about from Byzantine Royalty in a direct male line.

As for being Ex-Princess Lisa - I was very happy being Princess Lisa, then I got married.

So now I have my husbands title, but there is some amount of confusion over exactly what his title is, so I'm merely Ex-Princess Lisa.

Actually there is a funny story concerning this.

'.........................................................................marriage by proxy...................................................................................
.....I'm definitely not talking to him.......................................................................'

so I remain Ex-Princess Lisa and her incredible disappearing husband.

Offline Ex-Princess Lisa

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2007, 04:48:31 PM »
I've got some lovely photos of the ruins of Purcell castle, I'll have to find them and post them on here.
Before anyone starts complaining this is off topic, it does link in nicely with Byzantium.

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2007, 09:53:30 AM »

The first that comes to mind is Ivan III, his father was a brother of the last Emperor Constantine.

I thought Ivan III had married Sophia Paleologos, the sister of Andreas Paleologos, who was the last Byzantine Emperor
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Ex-Princess Lisa

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2007, 01:47:29 PM »
Thanks for your post Valmont, do you have any information about Charlemagne being descended from Byzantine ancestry on the male line.

I presume all the French Kings think they were descended from Byzantine ancestry.

Does the Duc d' Orleans think he is descended from Byzantine ancestry, do you think? Its seems to me they think they are Byzantine Imperial blood in the male line. It a shame then for him that he has a R1b Y chromosome so that means he cannot possibly be descended directly in the male line from the ALL IMPORTANT Byzantine Imperial Blood.

All the arguments about who has the most noble bloodline of all the royal bloodlines will undoubtedly carry on, even when the argument has been won. Which it has.

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 06:57:20 PM »
I don't know the Duc D'Orleans, so I cannot tell what he thinks regarging wether or not he has Byzantine  Ancenstry... Sorry I can't help you..
Best Regards,

Vicount D'Valmont
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 10:07:55 PM »
What arguement has been won?
I havent had a chance to throw in my two cents?
Damn!!!!
And what is IMPORTANT Byzantine Royal Blood?

 ???
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2007, 10:17:48 AM »
I have NO idea.....
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Ex-Princess Lisa

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2007, 07:41:52 PM »
Royalty have apparently been arguing about it for ages. Of course I'm a woman and I do not really get involved in it as it is on the male side.

Being descended in any way from Charlemagne is important to European Royalty. as we all know. The French kings were considered highly because of their lineage from Charlemagne. The more closely linked the better.
Although I have read various different accounts of who Charlemagne descended from, anyone who is anyone, and by that I mean Royal, knows that Charlemagne descended from the Imperial Byzantine Family, in the male line.
It goes further back then that. Anyway to cut a very long story short and leaving out several thousand years history, the story goes that the Byzantine Imperial bloodline was originally Eygptian Pharoahs and Eygptian Pharoahs thought they were descended from Ra, the Sun God. This was certainly believed by the French Kings, I cannot remember which Louis it was that went around telling everyone that he was the Sun King. I'm not saying this is true, I'm just saying this is what they believed.
Anyway, being descended from Byzantine Royalty brought them status and they have been arguing about it ever since.
So now that we have DNA testing, the whole argument has moved into a new phase.
Unfortunately every Royal line that claims to be descended in a direct male line from the Byzantine Royalty, has a different Y chromosome. So none of them can prove that they are the correct bloodline. (Royalty really are obsessed with bloodlines)
Until now.
Romanov Y chromosome matches Purcell Y chromosome.
It takes more than just chance for 2 royal lines to match. The Romanov have an obvious link to Byzantine Royalty. The Purcells have a provable link to Charlemagne and therefore to Byzantine royalty.
Unfortunately for the Duc d'Orleans not only does he not match, he also has an R1b haplotype, which is a distinctly Northern European Haplotype.

The Romanovs and the Purcells have a J haplotype, which is distinctly from the Middle East.

(For anyone that is interested in these things, Coburg Saxe Gotha Y chromosome is also R1b, but its a different R1b to the Duc d'Orleans one.
R1b is a very common haplotype and most men in Northern Europe carry a version of it.)

I'm only pointing this out because the Duc d'Orleans makes so much of the fact he has such a Royal bloodline, the cross of Malta on everything to indicate his Imperial blood and he is such a fraud. Yes, I agree he is descended from the French Kings, but as none of the French Kings descendents, either legitimate or illegitimate have anything like a Middle East haplotype, it seems safe to assume that the Byzantine Bloodline died out a very long time ago in France.
Luckily for the Purcells they left the country in 1066.

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2007, 09:45:09 PM »
Whoa, Please4....
hold on I just fell off my chair!
Here we go... is this something to do with the so called Divine right of Kings?
Any Merovignians about?
Descent from the Sun God Ra?
I'll just move over to the co pilots seat, Googoo from Sirus is the pilot and we are going to Saturn for a liquid lunch!

It is important that we realise that there were 87 DIFFERENT Byzantine Emperors from about 13 dynasties, and not one of them was remotely connected to Charles The Great.not in the male or female line anyway.
Sure they may have married off their daughters or nieces in to his family after he became Emperor, but that doesent mean his blood is the same is theirs.
Now as for Byzantine blood,
The Romanovs do have it in the female line because we know that Byzantine Princess' married Russian Tsars.
There are also noble families like the Comneni, Lascaris and Paleologue that undoubtably have continued but as to whether they have  blood in the male or female line is contentious.The last Byzantine Emperor was killed defending the city with no male issue so his line is extinct.I would therefore say that there is no legitimate claimant to the empty throne.(especially after 547 years).
As for the Duc d'Orleans, he is related to the last legitimate French Dynasty, but I dont know anything about his claims to being related to the Pharaohs of Egypt.
Googoo reckons we should pick him up in Paris on the way to lunch........it will make for interesting conversation!!!



:)

Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2007, 03:35:28 PM »
And to think I thought Britney Spears was a troubled girl....She's soooo fine...
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2007, 05:59:16 PM »
She's my flight engineer!
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17

Offline Valmont

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2007, 10:26:01 AM »
Hey, maybe you guys could also pick Ex-princess Lisa and me and we could all go to saturn and enjoy that delicious liquid lunch while your flight engineer performs her latest hit.... Let me see if I can contact the sun god Ra so he can meet us there and we can hear the truth out of his lips... We are going to have so much fun...
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Ilias_of_John

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Re: Romanov Byzantine Ancestry
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2007, 06:18:24 PM »
Now you are being ridiculous!






everyone knows that Ra doesent drink!
Honour all men.
Love the brotherhood.
Fear God.
Honour the king.
1 Peter 2:17