The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum
 
 User Info & Key Stats   
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
December 18, 2014, 09:21:57 AM
462892 Posts in 9007 Topics by 14527 Members
Latest Member: Scamall
News: We think Pallasart is the best web design company in Austin and for good reason - they make this forum possible! Looking for a website? Call them at 512 469-7454.
+  The Alexander Palace Time Machine Discussion Forum
|-+  Discussions about the Imperial Family and European Royalty
| |-+  The Myth and Legends of Survivors (Moderators: LisaDavidson, Forum Admin)
| | |-+  Richard Schweitzer, Husband of Marina Botkin: General Q & A
  0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 Go Down Print
Author
Locked Topic Topic: Richard Schweitzer, Husband of Marina Botkin: General Q & A  (Read 42512 times)
Reply #195
« on: October 30, 2007, 11:12:40 AM »
Annie Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Posts: 4757

View Profile WWW

Back to the cremation topic, I don't remember if this was asked before (I think it was but not fully answered)- what religion did AA consider herself to be? Did she ever show any signs of or interest in practicing Orthodoxy, or make any comments that would lead anyone to believe she had been raised Orthodox? When she was married to Manahan, it was in the "Church of Aphrodite", wasn't it?
Logged
Reply #196
« on: October 30, 2007, 01:48:22 PM »
dmitri Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Posts: 2020

View Profile

How can it be a Church when it is Pagan?
Logged
Reply #197
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:02:23 PM »
Forum Admin Offline
Administrator
Velikye Knyaz
*****
www.alexanderpalace.org Posts: 4523

View Profile WWW

I will remind users that this thread is for QUESTIONS to Richard Schweitzer  and Schweitzer's ANSWERS.
Let's keep the cross chat to a minimum.

there are currently rather a few questions on the table for him, without answers forthcoming. As Richard Schweitzer has been in the forum and been reading this thread, he is obviously aware of this.

If he won't be answering the questions put to him, I'll just lock down the thread rather than have it turned into something used to attack him personally, as it seems to be heading that way now, which is improper.

If I have contact from RS by Friday afternoon texas time one way or the other, I will assume he is not interested in answering the questions being put to him and will lock the thread.

SO, please make sure you have your questions here on the table, so that RS has reasonable chance to view them and answer or not.

Logged
Reply #198
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:18:17 PM »
Helen_Azar Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Ask about my upcoming book on Grand Duchess Olga Posts: 7400

View Profile WWW

Ok, I'm going to repost my last question to Mr Schweitzer:

Mr Schweitzer, how many times did you meet Mrs Manahan and for how long?

Logged

Reply #199
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:20:24 PM »
Belochka Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
City of Peter stand in all your splendor - Pushkin Posts: 4366

View Profile

... he was burdened (yes burdened) with the sense of duty he had inherited to deal with the evidence that was before him, and not least by his own sensory perceptions.

... This was a family driven by the sense of duty

1.
#49

Did any person(s) attempt to intervene in order to prevent the cremation from going ahead?

Not that I am aware.


. If not, why not?

I suppose both  under the law, and in keeping with respect for the wishes of the next of kin (spouse) no one felt they had any standing, let alone right, to intervene.

#49

... Marina and I had been down there before her death to try and arrange through the Court to take her out of public care, but before the court could act she died.

to Reply #63

Thus, do I understand your response correctly: not one person "felt" that the rights of the deceased were of paramount importance, if she was indeed believed to be of imperial descent?

...  You asked about intervention; not about the senses of obligations persons may have felt toward respect due a deceased. Like many (in fact all)  “rights,” any “rights of the deceased” are really only the obligations of the living.


Mr Schweitzer,

I now ask about the " sense of obligations persons may have felt".

In Massie  "The Romanovs The Final Chapter" @ p 199, you are quoted:

"... it was a matter of family honor to try our utmost to fulfill her lifelong wish to have her identity as the Grand Duchess Anastasia recognized."

Question 1. Irrespective of what was stipulated regarding the disposition of the remains of the dead under "The Law of Dead Bodies", why did the Botkin family "sense of duty" cease when Mrs Manahan died and was to be cremated?

Question 2. Why was the Botkin "sense of duty" seen to have been revived (following the disposal of her remains), when the opportunity presented to have the hospital samples bearing her name be analyzed?

Question 3. If  it was "a matter of family honor to have her identity .... recognized" when Mrs Manahan was alive, would not a Russian Orthodox burial (as customary for all Romanov family members) provided part of the process to have her identity recognized?

Thank you,

Margarita
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 04:27:56 PM by Belochka » Logged



Faces of Russia is now on Facebook!


http://www.searchfoundationinc.org/
Reply #200
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:24:36 PM »
Helen_Azar Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Ask about my upcoming book on Grand Duchess Olga Posts: 7400

View Profile WWW

I read in the recent non-fiction about Anna Anderson (Welch) that AA believed that if one gets cremated, one will be reincarnated, which is why she wanted to be cremated... Is this true, Mr Schweitzer, was this the reason she wanted to be cremated?
Logged

Reply #201
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:32:31 PM »
Richard_Schweitzer Offline
Boyar
**
I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 161

View Profile

The Gleb Botkin Family  2:

Still writing off-site and posting when I can get access. There seem to be added pages to the thread. Hopefully it’s mostly the cross talk and not questions, because I have not had time to scan the thread, but will get back to it when I can.

The family settled out in West Hempstead, Long Island, in what was probably a lower middle class neighborhood. It was difficult for Gleb and Nadine to understand the impact of that life, public schools, etc. on their children.  From what Marina said, they must have expected that their children would just “naturally” come to develop the same manners, tastes, etc., as theirs. Of course that is never the case in this country. The youngest brother thought their table was not elegant because they did not set out a toothpick cup, like his friends!

However, the household was orderly, and full deference was given to “Father,” and his work which include both commercial art, illustration and his writing, which produced 8 published novels, plus the popular history The Firebird, as well as The Real Romanovs and The Woman Who Rose Again. Like most writers he produced a number of novels that went unpublished (whose manuscripts I have preserved). Gleb also held jobs as an illustrator, art director, art editor and other functions in publishing, commuting to NYC.

From Marina, I learned that there were never any “cross words” in the family, except for the petulance of her sister, Kyra. While Marina recalled sitting on their front steps waiting and wishing Father would come back from visiting Anastasia, there was never any “resentment” of their father’s commuting, of his intense involvement with Anastasia when her place of abode permitted, which was not constant, but intermittent during the brief period she was here. From Nadine herself I know that there was never any resentment or jealousy of time given to Anastasia. After all, such service and loyalty was in the backgrounds of both of them.

Some time after Anastasia’s sojourn here, Gleb was stricken with a disabling illness that prevented his commuting and working for an extended period, and a close friend came by regularly to help him regain the ability to get outside and to walk. Shortly the Depression came on and the family was in dire straights, surviving by aid from friends. Marina put herself through Smith (’45) by student loans which she repaid with interest. None of the brothers went to college. The youngest stayed on at home even after marriage. So, there was no friction, regardless of his “detachment” from his father’s concerns. Once they were working, the two girls supported their mother and father.

If anything bothered the children as adolescents and young adults, it was Gleb’s decision to grow a beard and take on some of the air of a more aged person. His increasing devotion to his church (which, incidentally required a legal action to get chartered – a sort of religious rights case of its day), did not bother them. However, some of the publicity it got annoyed them. The church did annoy Gleb’s sister, a devout R.O., who spoke to me of it as “That religion that Gleb invented.”

So, summing up, Gleb’s involvement with Anastasia’s affairs, was to his children and to Nadine, just what made up his life, as it was with other families and their fathers’ work.
Nadine was absolutely devoted to Gleb and knew how essential she was in his life. Marina and I discussed that more than once, how she could not bear to be separated from him for long. I observed that when she had to come to Virginia for care without him at one time.

I hope that covers it all, if I have left some point open, let me know.
Logged
Reply #202
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:33:41 PM »
Richard_Schweitzer Offline
Boyar
**
I love YaBB 1G - SP1! Posts: 161

View Profile

The Gleb Botkin Family  2:

Still writing off-site and posting when I can get access. There seem to be added pages to the thread. Hopefully it’s mostly the cross talk and not questions, because I have not had time to scan the thread, but will get back to it when I can.

The family settled out in West Hempstead, Long Island, in what was probably a lower middle class neighborhood. It was difficult for Gleb and Nadine to understand the impact of that life, public schools, etc. on their children.  From what Marina said, they must have expected that their children would just “naturally” come to develop the same manners, tastes, etc., as theirs. Of course that is never the case in this country. The youngest brother thought their table was not elegant because they did not set out a toothpick cup, like his friends!

However, the household was orderly, and full deference was given to “Father,” and his work which include both commercial art, illustration and his writing, which produced 8 published novels, plus the popular history The Firebird, as well as The Real Romanovs and The Woman Who Rose Again. Like most writers he produced a number of novels that went unpublished (whose manuscripts I have preserved). Gleb also held jobs as an illustrator, art director, art editor and other functions in publishing, commuting to NYC.

From Marina, I learned that there were never any “cross words” in the family, except for the petulance of her sister, Kyra. While Marina recalled sitting on their front steps waiting and wishing Father would come back from visiting Anastasia, there was never any “resentment” of their father’s commuting, of his intense involvement with Anastasia when her place of abode permitted, which was not constant, but intermittent during the brief period she was here. From Nadine herself I know that there was never any resentment or jealousy of time given to Anastasia. After all, such service and loyalty was in the backgrounds of both of them.

Some time after Anastasia’s sojourn here, Gleb was stricken with a disabling illness that prevented his commuting and working for an extended period, and a close friend came by regularly to help him regain the ability to get outside and to walk. Shortly the Depression came on and the family was in dire straights, surviving by aid from friends. Marina put herself through Smith (’45) by student loans which she repaid with interest. None of the brothers went to college. The youngest stayed on at home even after marriage. So, there was no friction, regardless of his “detachment” from his father’s concerns. Once they were working, the two girls supported their mother and father.

If anything bothered the children as adolescents and young adults, it was Gleb’s decision to grow a beard and take on some of the air of a more aged person. His increasing devotion to his church (which, incidentally required a legal action to get chartered – a sort of religious rights case of its day), did not bother them. However, some of the publicity it got annoyed them. The church did annoy Gleb’s sister, a devout R.O., who spoke to me of it as “That religion that Gleb invented.”

So, summing up, Gleb’s involvement with Anastasia’s affairs, was to his children and to Nadine, just what made up his life, as it was with other families and their fathers’ work.
Nadine was absolutely devoted to Gleb and knew how essential she was in his life. Marina and I discussed that more than once, how she could not bear to be separated from him for long. I observed that when she had to come to Virginia for care without him at one time.

I hope that covers it all, if I have left some point open, let me know.
Logged
Reply #203
« on: October 30, 2007, 04:39:49 PM »
Helen_Azar Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Ask about my upcoming book on Grand Duchess Olga Posts: 7400

View Profile WWW

I have not had time to scan the thread...

Mr Schweitzer, you don't have to scan the thread, the question is directly above your very long post... Perhaps it would make more sense if you posted quick answers to the questions instead of making long time consuming biographical posts, which you can make later when you return home and have the time?
Logged

Reply #204
« on: October 30, 2007, 07:04:18 PM »
Forum Admin Offline
Administrator
Velikye Knyaz
*****
www.alexanderpalace.org Posts: 4523

View Profile WWW

I certainly accept the fact that people do think she knew herself not to be Anastasia (and of course there were occasions that she said that she was Anastasia, pace testimony that I have read on this very forum),

But she wasn't Anasatsia.

That leaves only two possible options.
1. She intentionally perpetrated the deception, as she knew her own identity and that she was not Anastasia.  or
2. She was so mentally unstable and delusional that she was unable to perceive reality and she genuinely believed she WAS ANR.

There is no third choice.  So, Dick, since you knew her so well, which one is it? She intentionally perpetrated a deception because she was mentally stable enough to know her own identity, or she was so mentally diseased and delusional she genuinely believed herself to be ANR.

I look forward to the answer to this one. (and I'll bet money now the answer won't be either 1 or 1. watch....)

Oh, and who said anyone had to be hurt to perpetrate a "fraud"?? I don't remember seeing that in either definition I cited.

Oh wait, there IS a third option, She really WAS Grand Duchess ANR and the DNA was wrong. So, please, Dick, pick which option and let us know exactly.


I still await a reply... (big surprise)

Still waiting Dick....why are the questions about the "gleb botkin" family of greater urgency than THIS direct question....



Fifth requst. Still waiting...

I think the answer to this is CRITICAL to even understand Schweitzer's point of view. So far, he hasnt even really expressed on in so many words other than to be offended that anyone might have suspected Gleb of "fraud".

Sixth request for a direct and specific answer. Saliently, it seems, none yet forthcoming...
Logged
Reply #205
« on: October 30, 2007, 07:48:13 PM »
Annie Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Posts: 4757

View Profile WWW

FA, Helen and Belochka's questions are very clearly spelled out, but I'm afraid mine may have gotten lost in the jumble so I'll list them again. One was about the family, thanks for your long answer. Here are the others:

1. You say that Tatiana Botkin was not happy with Gleb's 'invented religion', how did Nadine and the kids feel about it, and did they follow it? If this is too personal, I understand, but can you please tell us if AA followed it and was that indeed the 'church' she and Jack were married in?

2. Did AA ever show any signs of being someone raised in the ROC, or mention she would like an ROC burial? You have said before that commenting on who decided on the cremation would be conjecture, does this mean she may have said it herself and it wasn't Jack's idea?

3. Helen has asked how many times you met AA and for how long. I would also like to know when you did meet her, did you get the idea that she was a person of high class birth and breeding? Or was this just the opinion passed to you by others? What did YOU think?

4. Is your faith in AA based on something you experienced, or something Gleb said? Do you believe that because FS was poor there is no way she could have acted high society at times? (see what FA and Alixz said about movie stars born poor)

Thank you for any answers you have time to give.
Logged
Reply #206
« on: October 30, 2007, 07:52:16 PM »
Louis_Charles Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Posts: 1493

View Profile

Quote
Mr. Schweitzer, did your wife and her siblings voice the fact that Anna Anderson had caused their family to suffer?

Well, my question has been answered. Thanks, Mr. Schweitzer.

Simon
Logged

"Simon --- Classy AND Compassionate!"
   
"The road to enlightenment is long and difficult, so take snacks and a magazine."
Reply #207
« on: October 31, 2007, 08:14:49 AM »
AGRBear Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
The road to truth is the best one to travel. Posts: 6596

View Profile WWW

AND, he's in the process of anwering mine about Gleb which I  and others  are finding  interesting information even there are those of you who do not wish to learn more about the family and their relationships.

Thank you Richard.

AGRBear
Logged

"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152
Reply #208
« on: October 31, 2007, 08:16:35 AM »
Helen_Azar Offline
Velikye Knyaz
****
Ask about my upcoming book on Grand Duchess Olga Posts: 7400

View Profile WWW

It seems that Mr Schweitzer is very selective in the kind of questions he answers... Oh well, that's his right, but it does tell us a little something too.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2007, 08:18:06 AM by Helen_A » Logged

Reply #209
« on: October 31, 2007, 08:31:40 AM »
Forum Admin Offline
Administrator
Velikye Knyaz
*****
www.alexanderpalace.org Posts: 4523

View Profile WWW

Helen, I think when one examines which questions Schweitzer clearly refuses to answer, GIVES us the answer.  Remember the sin of omission is equal to the sin of commission.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 12 13 [14] 15 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Website by Pallasart - Austin Web Design