Author Topic: OTMA's regiments  (Read 65604 times)

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Offline koloagirl

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2007, 04:49:35 PM »

Aloha all!

Wonderful pictures!  And the girls do seem to have wonderful "seats" on their mounts also!

I thought I'd ask this question here as it is somewhat tied to the regiment thread -- do we know where or by whom OTMAA received their horsemanship training?  It seems that from a fairly
early age they are shown on horseback and I don't think I've ever read about their training -- do we know anything?

Janet R.
Janet R.

Offline Suzanne

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2007, 08:31:59 PM »
Interestingly, Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna comments in Ian Vorres' book that Anastasia was the only one of her nieces who really enjoyed riding. Olga A believed Anastasia would have grown up to be an excellent horsewoman. She didn't think the older three took much pleasure from horseback riding.

Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2007, 01:46:51 AM »
I think it was considered natural for Imperial children to ride a horse.

Perhaps they started with playing with ponnies and as they grew up, they learned to handle the horses...I could be wrong, but it´s true that I´ve never read anything about it either.

Offline Sarushka

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 06:36:34 PM »
tian79 sent me some plates of the grand duchesses' uniforms to post:

Olga:


Tatiana:


Maria:

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Offline Sarushka

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 06:39:24 PM »
Another view of Olga's uniform tunic, also from tian79:


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2007, 10:56:36 AM »
tian79 has pointed out that Olga Nikolaevna was honoroary colonel-in-chief of another regiment, the 2nd Kubansky Platustunsky battalion. From page 661 of The Complete Wartime Correspondence, Nicholas writes on December 6, 1916:

"Lots of telegrams as usual. Olga will be gladly astonished to have been named chef[sic] of 2nd Kubansk. Plastunsky Battalion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuban_Cossacks
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2007, 11:00:47 AM »
This photo also comes to us from tian79:



It's a regimental jacket belonging to Olga Nikolaevna. I think it's part of her Hussars uniform. They wore white dress cloaks over their uniforms, so perhaps this coat was a variation of that garment?
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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2007, 09:13:14 AM »
Sarushka this is very great how you put all the photos together. I am so excited I seen all these regiment photos!!! Even the photos of their regiment uniform we now have an idea about what color they realy were. You did such a wonderful job for us to see these amazing photos very well done. I am so amazed to see all this. :)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2007, 09:15:39 AM by Elizabeth~Princess »

Offline Sarushka

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2008, 07:23:29 AM »
TATIANA
8th Voznesensky Uhlans (Lancers)
Uniform colors: navy and blue



I went to link this thread for a newbie today and realized I'd made a dopey mistake regarding Tatiana's uniform colors -- obviously, it's navy and yellow, not navy and blue! ;)
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Offline Sarushka

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2008, 09:50:54 PM »
Cross-posting a heap of information on Anastasia's regiment by Daniel Briere:

The 148th Kaspiisky (Caspian) Infantry Regiment’s Barracks were located in New Peterhof. Since before Anastasia was born, December 22 (St. Anastasia’s Feast Day) had been chosen as its regimental holiday and therefore its regimental church was dedicated to St. Anastasia. Here is a photo from the Russian Archives, obviously taken in Summer as (until the 1904-05 Russo-Japanese War) officers and soldiers wore white tunics during Summer :



As December 22 was also Anastasia’s namesday, my guess is she was given this particular regiment because of this. She didn’t receive it on her namesady though but rather as a present for her 14th birthday. As her father wrote in his diary for June 5, 1915 (my translation) : « On the occasion of Anastasia’s birthday, I named her Shef (Colonel-in-Chief) of the 148th Kaspiisky Infantry Regiment. » His official military order stated that from then on, the regiment would be known as the « 148th Kaspiisky Her Imperial Highness Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna’s Infantry Regiment ».

I don’t recall having seen photos of her with her regiment, although she most probably received a delegation from it (as it was the custom) to congratulate her on being named Colonel-in-Chief. Here is a photo of the whole Officers’ Corps in their Parade Dress with the Emperor, Olga and Tatiana :



It most certainly was taken on December 22, 1913 (before Anastasia's nomination) as Nicholas II’s diary entry for the day mentions that (my translation) : «  At 11:00 the  Kaspiisky Regiment held its Holiday Parade at the Manege (…) All the children went with me and the daughters had Lunch at the Great Palace. » Why the 2 young ones aren’t on the photo, I don’t know, or maybe he meant only the Big Pair.

She might be on the next photo taken at their 1911 Jubilee Regimental Parade. The photo shows the Imperial Review after the Regiment received its new flag. Nicholas II and the young tsarevich can be clearly seen on the far left. In the Box, ladies are in attendance. Some, if not all, grand duchesses, were probably there too (one of them seems quite small) :



The uniform of the 148th Regiment might have been referred as the Blue Regiment because epaulettes and shoulder board fabric of all 3rd & 4th Infantry regiment in each Infantry Division were blue. But the officers’ Parade Dress tunic and visor caps color was the same as all Army regiments : « Tsar’s Green » (bluish green) with pants slightly darker. Enlisted men uniforms were supposed to be green too but in reality were black. Here is a sketch for a similar 4th regiment (here showing the 68th Emperor Alexander III Infantry Regiment – officer on the left, lower rank on the right) :



Anastasia’s regiment looked exactly like it, only difference was the number « 148 » on epaulettes and shoulder boards instead of a monogram. Often a regiment would present its new Chief a full set of uniforms and accoutrements. I don’t know if Anastasia ever got one or not. Maybe she did but never got to wear it as her regiment was away at the Front on regimental holidays in 1915 and 1916. But she would nevertheless have had her photo taken in uniform to be sent to « her » men and I have never seen such a photo. As Olga, Tatiana and Maria’s parade tunics survived (I have seen 2 of them at exhibitions), and no uniform from Anastasia was ever exhibited, my guess is she never received one because of the war.


After further scrutiny, Daniel adds that the photo of N, O & T with the regiment may have been taken in 1912 rather than 1913.
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Offline Daniel Briere

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2008, 02:11:02 PM »
This photo also comes to us from tian79:



It's a regimental jacket belonging to Olga Nikolaevna. I think it's part of her Hussars uniform. They wore white dress cloaks over their uniforms, so perhaps this coat was a variation of that garment?

Just found Sarushka’s thread about OTMA uniforms : great idea!

Here are a few things I might add regarding photos of Olga’s uniform.

The blue dolman/tunic (« doloman »), white pelisse (« mentik ») and busby shown on photos posted by tian79 did not belong to Olga but are indeed from her regiment. As she held the honorary rank of senior officer she had hussar’s zigzag braid on her collar and wider one of her sleeves (see the color photo with the red skirt om page 1). Tian79’s blue dolman is a junior officer’s tunic. As for the busby and white cloak (« mentik ») they belonged to an enlisted man as the yellow cords show. An officer’s pelisse had gold braid instead and Olga’s would have had gold hussar’s braid on the sleeves too.

Olga received her uniform from her regiment on the same day she was named « Shef » (Colonel-in-Chief): July 11, 1909 (O.S.), her namesday. In his book about “Ol’giny gusary” (Olga’s Hussars), A. V. Voronov describes when she was named colonel-in-chief and how she received a delegation from her new regiment at Peterhof on that day. She was then presented with a full uniform kit (but without a pelisse) on behalf of the regiment. The uniform had been made by a “Court tailor” said a book published for the regiment. According to Empress Maria Feodorovna, Olga was extremely happy to receive this uniform.

Interesting facts about the pelisse : both Guards Hussar regiments had them but only a few Army Hussar regiments were granted one as a special priviledge. On November 3, 1911 a delegation from Olga’s regiment went to Livadia to congratulate their Chief for her 16th birthday (see photo on previous page of her standing between 2 officers) : on this occasion, her father awarded her regiment the rare honour of wearing a pelisse (mentik). Her regiment was given a white one with gold (for officers) or yellow braid (for lower ranks). Pelisses for the regiment were paid out of Olga’s own money (more than 20 000 rubles!) During Winter 1912, the regiment’s Commanding Officer went to Tsarskoe Selo to present a pelisse to Olga. On Parade Dress Order the pelisse was worn over the shoulders. Off ranks and in winter it could be worn as a jacket. My guess is that most photos showing Olga and Tatiana outside the AP alone, or side by side, were taken before Winter 1912 (Olga doesn’t have her pelisse and the girls wear no medals, as they do on photos taken in August 1913).

Their first horseback review of their regiments probably didn’t happen before August 1913 as the regiments had been invited to participate to the annual Guards Camp at Krasnoe Selo along with the other regiments which had Imperial Family members as Chiefs. The girls’ regiments first participated in the General Review held on July 25. Olga and Tatiana – wearing dresses, not uniforms – went along with the Emperor. Then, on July 31, a special review of the 3rd Elizavetgradsky H.I.H. Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna’s Hussar Regiment, the 8th Voznesensky H.I.H. Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna’s Lancer Regiment and 13th Leib-Grenadier Erivansky His Majesty’s Regiment was held for their Chiefs. This time all 4 girls went along, but none wore a uniform. But a special event had been planned for August 5 in Peterhof, « a day for Olga and Tatiana to remember » as their father wrote in his diary  : another parade of Olga and Tatiana’s regiments, but this time the girls were to review their own regiment on horseback, in full-dress uniform. An interesting series of photos of these July-August days have been published by Marvin Lyons in his book « Nicholas II, the last Tsar ».

The joint regimental parade went well. Photos and film (which I have seen) were taken at the review. Here is a colored PC showing a proud Olga reviewing her regiment on August 5, 1913 (not in 1914 as caption says) :



After the parade, the officers and their wives were invited for lunch at the Grand Palace and group photos were taken outside (see page 1). 
Daniel Briere

Offline Daniel Briere

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2008, 03:27:19 PM »
tian79 has pointed out that Olga Nikolaevna was honoroary colonel-in-chief of another regiment, the 2nd Kubansky Platustunsky battalion. From page 661 of The Complete Wartime Correspondence, Nicholas writes on December 6, 1916:

"Lots of telegrams as usual. Olga will be gladly astonished to have been named chef[sic] of 2nd Kubansk. Plastunsky Battalion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuban_Cossacks

tian79 is right, Olga was indeed named Chief of another Army unit : on December 6, 1916, his namesday, Nicholas II appointed her eldest daughter to be Chief of the 2nd Kubansky Plastunsky Battalion ( renamed  « 2nd H.I.H. Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna’s Kubansky Plastunsky Battalion ». Plastuny were Cossack Infantry. To my knowledge, Olga was the only daughter to get another regiment or other military unit. As the Revolution broke out 3 months later, I doubt Olga ever saw her regiment or received a uniform. If she had, it would have looked like this, with a no. 2 on epaulettes and shoulder boards instead of a 6 (her father’s battalion):



No doubt she would have looked quite smart in a black silk « beshmet » (long shirt) and long tight fitting black wool Circassian coat (« cherkeska ») with raspberry piping!

During the War, these Cossacks wore a khaki coat similar to this one (which I think belonged to Nicholas II, Chief of the 6th Kubansky Plastunsky Battalion).



Daniel Briere

Offline Ally Kumari

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2008, 02:58:21 AM »
Daniel -

thank you most ardently for these information. They were all completely new to me.

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Offline nena

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Re: OTMA's regiments
« Reply #29 on: June 18, 2008, 02:18:12 PM »
Tatiana's uniform:

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