Author Topic: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia  (Read 42819 times)

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Offline JonC

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2006, 10:00:01 PM »
I 've noticed several discussions concerning the Russian Throne/Monarchy thoughout the forum threads. The question has come up several times during those for and against Maria V. cessions and whether she, or anyone else for that matter, could claim a throne that either does or doesn't exist in a Monarchy which hasn't been terminated but certainly suspended from ruling Russia.

Whatever the case the actual throne does exist. The Jewels are still there in storage. The Tsar's crown, and the Empress Alexandra's crown have been taken care of religiously. Even the Romanov coat of arms is officially, and proudly displayed on Russian government buildings, submarines, military uniforms ect. The Palaces are still there. All that seems to be missing is to crown someone. Why has the Russian govt/ Pres. Putin allowed this to be? JonC.

Offline russimperial

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2006, 04:22:25 AM »
Jon,

HIH Maria has a personal family web site its attachted to the Russian Imperial Imperial Union Order web site.
There are several web sites under the section ''press'' on the Orders web site


http://www.riuo.org/

Offline JonC

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2006, 11:30:28 AM »
Quote
Jon,

HIH Maria has a personal family web site its attachted to the Russian Imperial Imperial Union Order web site.
There are several web sites under the section ''press'' on the Orders web site


http://www.riuo.org/



You know, I've seen your posts before. My impression is that whoever you are you really don't have anything to say except as a propaganda machine for Maria V. and her ' Russian Imperial...yada..yada..yada..bull doodoo.,'.

 I really don't see why the FA allows your posts. Now if you were an actual person and not a conglomerate representative it would be interesting to read you. You seem to have nothing to say but to push the above 'yada..yada..'. I think there's something wrong with that. I'm sure I will be summarily addressed for this view of mine. JonC.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2006, 02:18:23 PM »
It seems like Russia has a country needs to figure out it's own fate, independent of any rulers, now. Everything might be there, but the time isn't right and it may never be. Sadly, that seems to be the truth of the matter, whoever you support or don't support as a claimant to the throne, or if you address the issue at all.

Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2006, 10:46:45 PM »
Quote
Quote
Jon,

HIH Maria has a personal family web site its attachted to the Russian Imperial Imperial Union Order web site.
There are several web sites under the section ''press'' on the Orders web site


http://www.riuo.org/



You know, I've seen your posts before. My impression is that whoever you are you really don't have anything to say except as a propaganda machine for Maria V. and her ' Russian Imperial...yada..yada..yada..bull doodoo.,'.

 I really don't see why the FA allows your posts. Now if you were an actual person and not a conglomerate representative it would be interesting to read you. You seem to have nothing to say but to push the above 'yada..yada..'. I think there's something wrong with that. I'm sure I will be summarily addressed for this view of mine. JonC.

Well, if that poster has an agenda, he's not alone. The reason his posts are permissable is that he is polite and providing information, which is more than I can say for others. Just because you do not respect MV does not mean everyone shares your view. As you know, people with many differing agendas and points of view post here. I find your criticism of this poster inappropriate and ask that you refrain from this in the future. The best thing to do if you don't like a post is to ignore it.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2006, 11:57:56 AM »
Yes, it is important to respect other posters.. As long as our agendas are legitimate, and respectful of others there is nothing wrong with expressing them.

Offline Valmont

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2006, 02:35:25 PM »
You know.. It may seem strange.. but I agree  with the three of you..  each has an independent point of view whom which I agree with.. in a separate way and at the same time with the three of you. It means that no one is wrong and the three of you are right at the same time... I would just have to add.. That (with no intention to affend ANYBODY)... in most cases that I have read a post that refers to MV, Lisa, inmediatly jumps in her deffense... and sometimes there is no really a reason to be so defensive.....
I do not want to get into any arguments or something related to it. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST ANYONE... I just want to express my point of view  about this....I just think that whatever opinion or side with take, should not interfeer with being a moderator.
If I offend you with this Lisa, believe me, it is not what I meant.... and I apologize for it.

Arturo Vega Llausás
Arturo Vega-Llausás

Offline Bach

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2006, 04:03:33 PM »
I think that the original poster has a valid question and point, to which I'd like to return.

Why, indeed, did the revolutionary and subsequent governments not completely obliterate all of the trappings of monarchy?  Putin appears to be hard-line and a "throw-back" to Soviet times in his consolidation of power.  Why has he preserved these potential iconographies?

IIRC, in the 1980's, MV had approached the Soviet government about her son being raised in Russia, with the idea that he might be set up as a "Czar" at some point in future.  Clearly, he would have been a puppet, a mere symbol, and as a public relations device.  The very fact that she considered this and saw to it that it was publicized - of course dovetailing with the idea that the Soviets recognized her legitimacy with regard to the monarchy - I found to be very distasteful.  Getting in bed with the government system that wiped out the family to advance her own agenda, in my opinion, makes her 100% a decendent of Kiril, as the methodology is the same.

However, given that the trappings of the former monarchy were available to perch on the head of the Prussian prince Georgii, it was an idea that obviously remained in the collective mind of the subsequent governments of the Soviet Union.  IMO, that means they were just waiting for someone greedy and weak enough, with just enough royal blood to make it feasible, to set up as the "healing" puppet leader to "bridge" between the Old and the New.  Maybe they were even planning to do so in 2003, on the four hundredth anniversary of the first Romanov ruler, Michael.

That, Jon, could be the reason that the trappings were maintained.  Just waiting for the "right" candidate.

Offline JonC

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2006, 11:45:41 PM »
Bach, your reasoning sounds plausible to me. It could also be that Yeltsin as well as his successor, Putin couldn't simply remove all the grandeur that was Russia and strip her of any semblance of culture and roots with which Russians needed to reconstruct their country after the devastation that was the USSR.

After all as bad as the Romanov dynasty was at times throughout its 300 years of existence nevertheless it was the only cultural foundation bonding the masses together. In order for Putin to lead Russia into the 21st century as a democratic country he had to re-enforce the idea of a new national patriotism, outside of Communism, by holding onto the trappings of the defunct Monarchy.

I don't for a minute believe that Putin or anyone in the government is thinking at all about installing a Tsar. For them it would be meaningless unless, ofcourse, the people had a counter ' revolution '. JonC.

Offline imperial angel

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #24 on: May 31, 2006, 12:19:04 PM »
Yes, while the people in charge in Russia wish to keep the heiritage of the country alive, they also do not want to have a tsar, figure head or no. They percieve that the heiritage of Russia is that of the tsars, and all the culteral glories and trappings that go along with that. They do know it is important for people to be aware of the glories of the past, and that's why there are still vestiges of Tsardom in my view. It is not because they want a tsar, but because tsars are so bound up with what the country's past was, and the glories of that past, that they can't deny that. To deny that would be to deny what Russia is, essentially.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by romanov_fan »

Offline Tania+

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #25 on: May 31, 2006, 05:03:56 PM »
You are very correct Imperial Angel ! My godfather has taken four trips to Russia of late, and gone throughout Russia interfacing with many officials, etc. He seems to think the same way. Also, the church is becoming very strong again, and countless new churches, and Cathedrals are being built, as well as many joining to serve the church. I believe as he, that this is the new fabric they are building on today.
Interesting to say the least !

Tatiana+


Quote
Yes, while the people in charge in Russia wish to keep the heiritage of the country alive, they also do not want to have a tsar, figure head or no. They percieve that the heiritage of Russia is that of the tsars, and all the culteral glories and trappings that go along with that. They do know it is important for people to be aware of the glories of the past, and that's why there are still vestiges of Tsardom in my view. It is not because they want a tsar, but because tsars are so bound up with what the country's past was, and the glories of that past, that they can't deny that. To deny that would be to deny what Russia is, essentially.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by Tania »
TatianaA


Offline imperial angel

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2006, 05:19:24 PM »
Thanks for your insight! I don't know have any personal experience with this, but just try to bring my interpretations as inexperienced as they maybe to the topic. Certainly the the vestiges of the monarchy are there, and they always will be for that is Russia. And the Orthodox church is an important part of this as is the tsars and their legacy. Russia is a country that has a great heiritage, of which the Romamov dynasty played a great role in creating, in my view. But for now, monarchy is not what Russia needs.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by romanov_fan »

Offline JonC

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2006, 10:09:34 PM »
I can see how the above discussions end up with..' no Monarchy needed today ' idea BUT since I am a Monarchist I totally disagree. I believe that democracy at least within the USA is, according to the History channel, an invention of ' The Masonic Order '. The Monarchy was always considered, since biblical times, set up by God and the King/Tsar was ruling by divine will. All the European Monarchs and all the Tsars especially Nicholas 2nd believed this to be so. Russia cannot be ruled by a system set up to worship whatever God anyone wants to worship...a democratic principle.

I would rather be ruled by one annointed by our Lord, creator of heaven and earth than a system contrived by Masons who worship any God.

Russia will not and cannot proceed in the direction of prosperity and peace in the eyes of our Lord if the head of the church and the country, namely the annointed of the Lord Tsar, isn't back on the Russian throne. I believe it matters to God and His will for Holy Russia will prevail. JonC.

Offline russimperial

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2006, 05:04:05 AM »
 :)God is with us!

 Dear Jon.C.

 Thankyou for the impolite reply, intelligent responses are acceptable, are you angry about something l have  written somewhere on the forum ?..Jon.c. are you Russian ?.

 The Russian Imperial Union Order is in its 77th year, its the legacy of the White Army in the Dispora, Jon when you critise this Organisation you critise a service  that has from the revolution been active in fighting communism for 77 years, members past have gone to war against the Communist yoke, actively provided intelligence, resources ,books, organised protests sent money,saved peoples lives, Jon this is the White Army your critising that has been a force since the Devil took Russia.

The RIU-O is seperate to the HIH  Grand Duchess but supports her postion, the  RIU-O was there before her, l could give you many and countless examples of good works of the Order.  I Spoke to a senior  member of the Order, the dear man is 84 years of age, about your comments he fought in the second war in the forces against the Reds, he was just mortified,the old guard whom fought to the last would turn in the grave at your comments.

Jon when you have spent your life fighting for a cause,spent your money and blood then you can be justified in your rude comments, but until then be forthright but not rude.

The Order currently provides assistance to many in Russia, supports and produces Orthodox material,
a current project of the Order is to provide sturdy suitable wheel chairs  for veterans and children in Russia we hope to have 226 delivered this year.

The RIU-O has a strong membership in Russia including high ranking Officials both Military and Civil plus Orthodox Priests.

If you are very intersted in Russia  then visit the web site of the Assocation of Nobles web site they seem to to support HIH as well, they are also represented in the Duma .

Its difficult to understand your quick to the tongue rudeness however l will pray for you next time and add your  forum name to the church prayer request list.

Imperial Regards to all

in XP and St John

Russimperial

Offline JonC

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Re: Current Perception of Romanovs and Monarchy in Russia
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2006, 10:04:34 PM »
Dear Russimperial.

You say you represent an organization descended from the 'White Army' of long ago devoted to the Monarchy. I like that very much! If you've read my last post on this thread you should have found out that I believe that the Annointed Tsar Nicholas 2nd was placed on the throne by our Lord i.e. by Divine will. Russia cannot be whole and Holy until the throne is set up once more with a Ruler from the loins of Tsar Nicholas himself which would assure that an Annointed person would continue to Rule Russia and also be the head of the Church at the same time.

You say in your response to me that you are supporting Maria Vladimirovich a descendant of the Traitor Kyrill who betrayed the innocent blood of our Annointed Tsar Nicholas 2nd and his family. This position of yours and your organization contradicts all the good you profess to do for Russia because it is a slap in the face of God himself for you to support her and her family.

Maria V. and her family could not possibly become regents of Russia because they could never have come from the loins of an Annointed Regent. Instead they come from the loins of a Traitor to God's Annointed Tsar Nicholas 2nd.

If infact you and your organization are a good and faithful servant of the Tsar then you should renounce your support and loyalty to Maria V., and continue your good work for Russia and for the Monarchy. You should spend your resources to try and find the missing children Alexie and Anastasia instead of being misguided and supporting an enemy of the Imperial Family.

By saying the above I am in no way being as you say ' rude ' because it is not rude to say the truth. It may hurt the one intended to hear this truth but it is not rude to say it.

RussImperial...if you truly want to support a true descendant of the Imperial Family I believe you will find all the information on them if you go to the following web site;

' www.home.earthlink.net/~alexofdenmark ' They are the ones you should be supporting. JonC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by JonC »