Author Topic: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence  (Read 96561 times)

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #345 on: November 08, 2007, 09:06:06 AM »

But assuming that the reasons that some backed Anderson were mercenary, I don't think that is what Andrew refers to in the letter to Tatiana Botkin. Gleb's actions have created an insurmountable barrier between Anderson and the immediate Romanov family, since it drags them into the limelight. And royalty doesn't like to be dragged into the limelight.  What has been "lost" is any chance that Ksenia, Olga, Irene, Victoria Milford-Haven, Sandro and others will ever meet with Anderson again. Or at all. As indeed they did not.

Simon,

This is not quite true actually. Prince Vassily, Xenia son who had known ANR as a child, had a meeting arranged with Anna Anderson, when he showed up for the meeting AA refused steadfastly to meet with him, claiming he had showed up "unannounced".


Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #346 on: November 08, 2007, 09:08:58 AM »
How did the rest of the family feel about Vassily meeting with her? And I think you are actually replying to Dmitri, who used the phrase "any of the Romanovs" to describe the loss of support. I said "the immediate family". After all, Xenia Leeds met with her as well.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 09:13:33 AM by Louis_Charles »
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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #347 on: November 08, 2007, 09:20:51 AM »
The family approved, actually, from what Bob was told by the Romanovs. Her refusal was seen by the family as further conclusive evidence that AA was actually happy the Romanovs left her alone, as they were really the ones who could have blown her story if she had met with any more of them.  It also gave her the "victim" status, the poor little grand duchess, rejected and abandoned by the evil avaricious relatives.  Actually, quite the opposite was the case.


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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #348 on: November 08, 2007, 09:37:34 AM »
Quite right Rob and how Anderson/Schnkowska liked to play the victim against her so-called "relatives" who were in fact never relatives at all.

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #349 on: November 08, 2007, 10:06:14 AM »
Cha-ching! Goodness, Dimtri, you're on a roll today!

Rob,

I'm not sure I understand your last sentence. If you take out the adjectives, was she not in fact rejected by the family? And did Bob actually have contact with the relatives who knew both women, or are we dealing with people like Nina Leeds here, who did not?

Thanks,

Simon

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #350 on: November 08, 2007, 02:29:01 PM »
"It also gave her the "victim" status, the poor little grand duchess, rejected and abandoned by the evil avaricious relatives.  Actually, quite the opposite was the case."

She was NOT the poor little grand duchess, she was not "abandoned by evil avaricious relatives."  She was believed by the family to be "an imposter, the best of the imposters, but an imposter nontheless" exact Romanov family quote.

Bob has discussed the matter only with the descendants, who themselves knew both the family that had met both, as well as the family that only knew ANR but not AA, the latter specifically those who were close to Vassily.

Offline Louis_Charles

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #351 on: November 08, 2007, 03:07:46 PM »
I've heard the "best of the imposters" line attributed to Princess Vera.

And of course the Romanovs themselves are speculating about why Anderson would not meet with them, or at least some of them. But thanks, this is interesting.
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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #352 on: November 08, 2007, 03:16:22 PM »
We have heard the "best of the imposters" line was at least repeated often by Vassily.

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #353 on: November 08, 2007, 04:03:33 PM »
"It also gave her the "victim" status, the poor little grand duchess, rejected and abandoned by the evil avaricious relatives.  Actually, quite the opposite was the case."



This sums it all up. Yes AA was rejected, but not by her 'relatives', because she was FS and not AN. AN was not rejected, an imposter was, and an imposter should be rejected, so this is nothing bad. AA is not to be pitied, the relatives should not be villainized.

Offline zackattack

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #354 on: November 08, 2007, 04:05:19 PM »
Just because she didn't write "I am distraught and this has made me cry" doesn't mean she didn't feel that way. She is clearly bothered, for herself and her mother. Also, this was before Marie F. died, so it was before the vicious attacks by AA supporters. It was also before several decades of trials and accusations of 'abandonment'. So if she was already bothered by it this early it does look like the emotional stress and pain would have gotten much worse over the years as the case dragged on and on throughout her life. I feel so sorry for her having to suffer so long, and dying without it ever being resolved and her name being cleared.

Another interesting thing about this letter is what she said about Andre'. Obviously she doesn't accept for a second that he may really think AA was AN, or that AA might possibly be AN, but seems to say that since he couldn't believe it and he had to be up to something. I have always thought that might be it long before I ever saw this letter. As a member of the Vladimirovichi line, he would have been(besides his brothers) the last person to want a real heir of "Nicky" to show up alive. Also as a member of that branch of Romanovs, he wouldn't have known the real AN anyway, since there was estrangement between his family and the IF, and because he was dating/married to Nicky's old mistress. What a doubly awkward guest he'd have made. For these two reasons, I doubt he ever had enough contact with the real AN to judge any claimant one way or the other. Of course after Gleb's letter, he dropped his support for the AA camp anyway. We will never know what his original intentions and ulterior motives on the case were, but I, like Olga, do not believe he ever believed AA to be AN.


This is the full English translation of Olga's letter:


February, 15th 1928

Dear Ms bxxx

Thank you for your nice letter.

Indeed, you understand like us the absurdity of this story! More and more, I see that this story is all about blackmail and money. Let’s say I’m mistaken.

But how can you believe that her maid, Ms Gilliard, who knows her since she was 6 weeks (and Mr Gilliard, who was as well with the beloved family until the moment they were separated in June 1918) could be mistaken?

It’s ridiculous as well to say that the grand mother and I don’t want to have her close to us.

What a shame to talk like that.

I say openly that my cousin André must have some vile motives to side against us…

Uncle from Hesse is also serene with the fact that the person is not our niece. He has proofs, as you may have seen or read in “L’Illustration” where the photos of the ears were, now it’s a known fact that the ears never change.

Now to answer your question: Mother feels healthy for her age. My heart too, but every unpleasant event (like the renewal of the Tchaik History) disturb my heart and makes it beat too fast. At night this is bothersome because I feel it more.

I’ve had a little flu with fever, two days in bed and sore throat.

Currently I’m working again relentlessly on our aquarelles, producing things about Crimea.

I have some sketches with me here and I’m working out, mixing things together, so much that I have the feeling the day is too short…

I can start at 8:30am, but at 4pm I can’t work anymore, and I have many other duties…

The boys are charming! They prefer German lessons to French lessons!

Together we saw a very interesting movie: “The man without homeland” (American), very patriotic and nice. They were overjoyed!

We send you our best wishes.

Greetings from Mother, Xenia, Emilia Jr, Cecilia and Gustav.

I kiss you heartily, dear Ms bxxx

Olga
i

Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #355 on: November 08, 2007, 04:14:08 PM »

Now to answer your question: Mother feels healthy for her age. My heart too, but every unpleasant event (like the renewal of the Tchaik History) disturb my heart and makes it beat too fast. At night this is bothersome because I feel it more.



Thank you, Zack! So good to have you back around here!

So this 'unpleasant event' the 'renewal of the Tchaik history' means AA, since that was the name she was using? (Tchaikovsky) Olga says it disturbs her heart and makes it beat too fast, so that means it's stressing her out and upsetting her. She was also losing sleep over it.


Here's something else I found on Olga's true feelings about her meeting with AA:

"They pretend that she recognized me, but I want to tell you how it all happened: they had warned her of my visit. She herself acknowledged that they had said: 'On Tuesday you will be very happy. Someone is coming from Denmark.' Then, obviously, she could imagine the rest and wait for 'her aunt.' She was unable to reply to any of the small intimate questions which I put to her."

source: Klier and Mingay's "Quest for Anastasia", page 102 (hardcover)
« Last Edit: November 08, 2007, 04:46:41 PM by Annie »

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #356 on: November 08, 2007, 04:23:15 PM »
Thank you Zack. I actually couldn't find the full translation.  I think it disappeared somewhere in the transition to the new forum software. Where did you find it? You can PM me if you don't want to answer publicly.

Offline dmitri

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #357 on: November 09, 2007, 07:34:40 AM »
Yes anybody who claims that the fraud AA/FS and her bunch of fellow travellers did not upset the Romanovs was living in ga ga land. The other whopping big lie is that Olga recognised AA/FS. That never happened.

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #358 on: November 09, 2007, 08:44:09 AM »
Cha-ching!

Two points for working the lack of recognition by Olga into the meaningless post.

Thanks for the full translation, Zack. It is an interesting look at (1) the way she sounded, at least when she wrote and (2)  the role that Anna Anderson had in her life. Since  Olga describes both herself and her mother as "healthy", indicates that she is working hard and characterizes the Anderson situation as "absurd", I guess that would be non-existent. I mean, do you really think that Olga devoted all that much time to Anderson if she considered the woman an imposter? Why would she? Surely the operative word in this letter is "absurd". I mean, I'm sorry about the heart palpitations, but the woman lived to be 78. And she farmed. She also got her family safely out of revolutionary Russia and then eluded the Soviets after World War II. What I have always liked about the Grand Duchess Olga Alexandrovna was her ability to do what had to be done when it came to living her life. The vision of her as a delicate flower seared by someone whom she met once doesn't jibe with the larger facts of her life.

If you are hurt by Anderson, Dmitri, well, I can understand that. There are threads on this very forum where people post about what the Imperial Family members mean to them personally. Perhaps it would be a good idea to start one or two: "What Olga Alexandrovna Has Meant in My Life" or "Why Anastasia is My Favorite Grand Duchess". I think there is one of those, but I'm not sure.




« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 08:46:31 AM by Louis_Charles »
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Offline Annie

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Re: Anna Anderson Discussion of Evidence
« Reply #359 on: November 09, 2007, 06:18:56 PM »


This is the full English translation of Olga's letter:


February, 15th 1928

Dear Ms bxxx

Thank you for your nice letter.

Indeed, you understand like us the absurdity of this story! More and more, I see that this story is all about blackmail and money. Let’s say I’m mistaken.

But how can you believe that her maid, Ms Gilliard, who knows her since she was 6 weeks (and Mr Gilliard, who was as well with the beloved family until the moment they were separated in June 1918) could be mistaken?

It’s ridiculous as well to say that the grand mother and I don’t want to have her close to us.

What a shame to talk like that.

I say openly that my cousin André must have some vile motives to side against us…

Uncle from Hesse is also serene with the fact that the person is not our niece. He has proofs, as you may have seen or read in “L’Illustration” where the photos of the ears were, now it’s a known fact that the ears never change.

Now to answer your question: Mother feels healthy for her age. My heart too, but every unpleasant event (like the renewal of the Tchaik History) disturb my heart and makes it beat too fast. At night this is bothersome because I feel it more.

I’ve had a little flu with fever, two days in bed and sore throat.

Currently I’m working again relentlessly on our aquarelles, producing things about Crimea.

I have some sketches with me here and I’m working out, mixing things together, so much that I have the feeling the day is too short…

I can start at 8:30am, but at 4pm I can’t work anymore, and I have many other duties…

The boys are charming! They prefer German lessons to French lessons!

Together we saw a very interesting movie: “The man without homeland” (American), very patriotic and nice. They were overjoyed!

We send you our best wishes.

Greetings from Mother, Xenia, Emilia Jr, Cecilia and Gustav.

I kiss you heartily, dear Ms bxxx

Olga