Author Topic: Fatima prophecies and Russia  (Read 15106 times)

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Offline Annie

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Fatima prophecies and Russia
« on: November 21, 2004, 09:40:09 AM »
This is a very interesting topic, since some of the messages of Fatima were about a great evil about to take hold in Russia and how it would change the world, and it was a warning. This is incredible to me, since this was given before anyone knew all about the revolution, and 3 young shepard children in Portugal certainly did not know. There must be something to it. It gives me the chills. I don't have the direct messages or prophecies, I will try to find them. If anyone else can, please do so. I think this is a good topic for discussion here. Unlike some of the Rasputin stuff, I don't see how this can be explained away.

Offline Annie

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2004, 10:37:47 AM »
Okay here's something I found online. I think it means that if Russia is not stopped there will be another war (WW2) and nore trouble in the world (the Cold War) have we avoided doom since Russia is no longer communist?


The Second Prophecy

"When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays [of each month]. If My requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated."

Many believers assert that this prophecy foresees the spreading of Communism by Russia, which had become the Soviet Union. Wars were, of course, fought to halt the spread of Communism. Then in 1984, Pope John Paul II consecrated the Soviet Union. Subsequently, in 1991, the Soviet Union disintegrated into 15 separate countries, but it can hardly be said that Russia has undergone a religious conversion. Has there been peace as predicted? While there haven't been any worldwide wars, there have been many minor ones (if any war can be considered minor) and the world still is not a peaceful place.


Offline LisaDavidson

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2004, 12:27:47 PM »
Certainly a great deal about the Fatima prophecies comes down to religious belief, but FWEIW, I, too find this fascinating. I do, however, feel that Orthodox Christians may obejct to the "conversion" of Russia. Many remained faithful to their church in spite of the terrible religious persecution by the Bolsheviks.

Offline Elisabeth

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2004, 02:35:20 PM »
I heard somewhere that the third prophecy of Fatima was that at the end of the twentieth century, there would be an attempt on the Pope's life; if the pope died, Antichrist and Apocalypse would follow; if he survived, disaster would be averted. Pope John Paul II is very devoted to the Virgin Mary of Fatima; according to what I have read, during the attempt on his life in the early 1980s, a medal of Fatima averted the bullet meant to kill him; since that time he has had the bullet preserved as a relic in the church erected on the site where the original prophecies of Fatima were given.
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Sergio

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2004, 04:13:07 PM »
Hello everybody

I am from Portugal and the subject "Fatima" is very important to us because most Portuguese are catholics.

About the Prophecies I have some material I can add here but it will take 2-3 days.

Please wait.

bluetoria

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2005, 02:43:26 PM »
It is significant that Pope John Paul II was shot on the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima...May 13th. As a R.C. I always understood the 'conversion' of Russia to mean NOT conversion to Catholicism, but conversion from the anti-religious communism. Catholics are very respectful of Orthodoxy and (in spite of our admittedly shameful past record) would no longer dream of trying to convert anyone from any other faith.

Offline strom

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2005, 05:35:49 PM »
There is no doubt that the Virgin intended to emphasize the link between Portugal and Russia.  This is interesting because the life-cycle of both countries are identical for which see Gaston Georgel's work on the cycles of world history, published in the mid-1950's.  I would not presume to offer the last word on this matter, but for the Virgin it would apperar that the last days in the Christian world are "bracketed" by the fates of these two countries!  

bluetoria

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2005, 05:47:09 PM »
Quote
There is no doubt that the Virgin intended to emphasize the link between Portugal and Russia. This is interesting because the life-cycle of both countries are identical for which see Gaston Georgel's work on the cycles of world history, published in the mid-1950's. I would not presume to offer the last word on this matter, but for the Virgin it would apperar that the last days in the Christian world are "bracketed" by the fates of these two countries!


Strom...I don't really understand this  :-/ Would Our Lady/Theotokos/The Virgin Mother differentiate between countries? Wasn't the point of the Fatima visions for EVERYONE? (Whatever their nationality)....
I'm not disagreeing, I'm asking :)

Offline Helen_Azar

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2005, 08:26:01 PM »
Also, I think I remember that the last surviving "Fatima child", who lived to a ripe old age and became a nun (I think), supposedly told the Pope the last prophecy they heard, but the Pope was not supposed to reveal it to anyone until 1960, but it wasn't done after that either. It hasn't been revealed to date, I wonder if it ever will be?  :o

From a website on Fatima Prophecies:

" ....the Vatican said the world was not quite ready for it. This reluctance to disclose the secret lead to speculation among the faithful that it contained information about our future that was so horrific that the Pope dared not reveal it. Perhaps it foretold a nuclear war... or the end of the world."  :o

Offline AGRBear

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2005, 07:08:22 PM »
What are the Fatima prophecies?  

Anyone recommend a web site for more information?

Thanks

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

bluetoria

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2005, 07:28:16 PM »
Quote
What are the Fatima prophecies?

Anyone recommend a web site for more information?

Thanks

AGRBear


The message of Fatima isn't like a Nostradamus thing or anything like that! And beware of some 'Catholic' websites which are (I write this as a Catholic) not in tune with true Catholic teaching at all!
 
It's basically asking people to pray the rosary and to turn away from materialism. There are many mysterious things about it (not least, the way that our present Pope who was shot on the Feast of Our Lady of Fatima, was 'saved by a Fatima medal & in his most recent illness which prevents him from speaking, wrote: 'Totus tuus!' which was his way of saying he had devoted his life to her!).

Tomorrow, because it's dead late now!, if you really want to know more I could write loads about it as I have loads of books about it! (Not that I know anything..just the books!)


Offline AGRBear

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2005, 08:21:59 PM »
Just a brief sketch will be fine so I and others can know what it is. For those who need more they can ask for the titles of your books if they find the need. And, you've given us some.

Has the Fatima Prophecies been around for a long time?

AGRBear
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Grand Duke

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2005, 08:27:09 PM »
Quote
What are the Fatima prophecies?
Anyone recommend a web site for more information?

Fatima prophecies are a three-part message given by the Virgin Mary to the 3 young Portuguese visionaries, on July 13, 1917, which includes remarkable visions of the future.
The message was to remain secret, so it became known as the "Three Secrets of Fatima".

The 1st part described a horrific vision of Hell.

The 2nd part foretold the end of World War I and the beginning of World War II and called for the "Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary".
Many believe Pope John Paul II fulfilled this request by giving a blessing over Russia shortly before the collapse of the Soviet Union, although others are concerned that this blessing was not enough.*

The 3rd secret was kept under wraps by the Vatican until Easter 2000 despite the Virgin's declaration that it could be released to the public after 1940 and must be released by 1960.
Due to the long delay in revealing the third secret, all manner of theories circulated.
The officially released text of the 3rd secret was symbolic in nature and open to various interpretations. The Church's interpretation was that the subject of the prophecy was the 1981 assassination attempt on Pope John Paul II by a Turkish gunman Mehmet Ali Agca, in Saint Peter's Square, Rome. The shooting occurred on May 13, the date of the first of the reported Fatima visions. The Pope indicated that he believes that the Virgin Mary spared him from death.

There is some controversy. Some people think that only part of the secret was revealed or that a completely falsified secret was revealed.

*Other people think that the prophecies are not yet fulfilled and they are still a vision of the future.
Because Our Lady asked the "Consecration of RUSSIA to the Immaculate Heart of Mary" and some previous Popes and JP II made the "Consecration of the WORLD" and the "Consecration of HUMANKIND" to the Immaculate Heart of Mary" but never the "Consecration of RUSSIA". Since this request isn't fulfilled, there will be no peace, only wars and persecutions of the Church and will happen what the 3rd secret says: wars, many deaths and many martyrs of the Church, even the Pope.
The main arguments for this are:
- the non "Consecration of RUSSIA to the Immaculate Heart of Mary";
- the actual world situation: wars, deaths, terrorism,...
- the assassination attempt on JP II doesn't match with the 3rd secret.

Sites:

Our Lady of Fatima: a Wikipedia article about the Marian apparitions.

Three Secrets of Fatima: Wikipedia article.

These wikipedia articles are well-written, seem accurate and have many links to other sites about Fatima.

The Fatima Network: site about Fatima with the Consecration of Russia and the 3rd secret controversy. Read the "Fatima Essentials".
I'm THE GRAND DUKE of LIPTON-upon-AVON ! Please to meet you. I'm glad you know my name!

bluetoria

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2005, 06:06:36 AM »
The trouble with Fatima & the mention of secrets is that it is SO in danger of appearing like superstition or some kind of Mother Shipton/Nostradamus 'prophecy.'

The three children Jacinta, Francisco & Lucia Marto experienced a series of visions & it must be remembered that this was at the height of the First World War.
As in most 'visions' (& in most Biblical accounts when someone has some kind of 'heavenly' experience), the children were first told, "Do not be afraid.'
Their vision of hell was truly horrific but was followed by a request that they should pray for sinners. (This is the exactly the same message as Lourdes)

Our Lady said, over the course of the visions:
"Make reparation for their sins and console your God."
"Stop offending God for He is already much offended."
She warned that the 'sin which causes the loss of most souls, is the sin of impurity.'
She asked that they should pray the rosary daily & add a prayer for sinners at the end of each decade.

She foretold the end of World War I but also predicted World War II.
"My Immaculate Heart," she said, "will lead you to God." and this is when she asked for the Consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart.
Pope John Paul II has done much to promote devotion to Our Lady of Fatima & it is v. significant that many of the major peace talks & arms reduction treaties which led to the end of the Cold War took place on Maion Feasts (Dec. 8th, March 25th, May 13th)
The 'conversion of Russia' has, IMO, taken place with the collapse of communism.
("There are more things in heaven and earth, Horation than are dreamt of in your philosophy" !!)

Taken out of context it often sounds like superstition but the message is really very simple: it simply asks people to pray for one another and to try to avoid sin.
And, of course, the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. ??

Lucia Marto (the last surviving visionary) died only a couple of weeks ago.
(A good, short book about Fatima is called, "Oh What A Beautiful Lady!" by Damien Walne & Joan Flory)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 PM by bluetoria »

Sunny

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Re: Fatima prophecies and Russia
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2005, 10:10:51 AM »
MEL PLANS 'MIRACLE' FILM

Couldn't find the original story from The Mail on Sunday.
The following is from The New York Post.

MEL PLANS 'MIRACLE' FILM

By TODD VENEZIA

March 6, 2005 -- "First Mel Gibson made "The Passion of the Christ" now he's planning to make a movie about the miracle of Fatima.

The "Braveheart" actor will bring to life the story of three peasant children who were said to have been given a prophetic vision of the future by the Virgin Mary at Fatima, Portugal, in 1917, London's The Mail on Sunday newspaper reported.

The follow-up to last year's gory depiction of Christ's crucifixion comes after Gibson met with one of the trio, Sister Lucia, before her death at age 98 last month.

Lucia and her cousins, Jacinta and Francisco, had a vision of Mary that many believe predicted World War II, trouble in Russia and the shooting of Pope John Paul II.

Gibson arranged for a projector and copy of "The Passion" to be brought to the Carmelite nun's convent, because members of her order are not allowed to leave.

He also visited with the nuns
."

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/40692.htm

Sunny