Author Topic: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa  (Read 88822 times)

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Offline historyfan

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #165 on: January 09, 2011, 09:22:23 PM »
More shock - Rasputin never was poisoned?  Every single thing I have ever read has stated that he was, but it didn't work.  I think the information that no poison was used is up there with the most astounding revelations.  I've yet to get to the section on the perils of handling cyanide.  I'm sorry if I sound like some sort of hysteric, but really, this is just fascinating and I can't stop reading.

Offline Belochka

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #166 on: January 10, 2011, 04:32:28 AM »
More shock - Rasputin never was poisoned?  Every single thing I have ever read has stated that he was, but it didn't work.  I think the information that no poison was used is up there with the most astounding revelations.  I've yet to get to the section on the perils of handling cyanide.  I'm sorry if I sound like some sort of hysteric, but really, this is just fascinating and I can't stop reading.

Others who wrote about Rasputin's manner of death accepted that the poisoning had taken place. Many historians simply repeated in their words, what Purishkevich and Yusupov wrote. More recently investigators have attempted to explain why the cyanide failed to take effect.

As I pointed out Lazavert revealed many years later that no poison was used.

After putting on my medical science hat, I determined that the alleged poisoning scenario was an absurdity. My reasoning was based on my understanding of the toxic character of potassium cyanide, which I explained on p 388.

The only ingested substance found during the autopsy was alcohol, which I would like to stress here, was never quantified by Professor Kosorotov.

Margarita


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Offline Sarushka

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #167 on: January 10, 2011, 04:30:55 PM »
Margarita,

I've just received a copy of your book on interlibrary loan and have begun browsing through it. So far I have two questions:

I'm curious about the imperial family's knowledge of the details of the murder. Would Nikolai have been made aware of the true details of the autopsy, or would he and his family have been susceptible to the same popular rumors circulating among the public (ie, the poisoning, drowning, and Rasputin's hand frozen in the sign of benediction)?

What is the source of Maria Nikolaevna's ink drawing shown on page 508? It's very pretty -- I don't recall seeing it before.
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Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #168 on: January 10, 2011, 05:05:56 PM »
More shock - Rasputin never was poisoned?  Every single thing I have ever read has stated that he was, but it didn't work.  

Rasputin's daughter Maria actually claimed in one of her voluminous sets of memoirs that she did not believe he had been poisoned. Her reasoning was that he hated sweet cakes and would not have eaten any if they were offered him (see Rasputin, my father, p 111). THis makes me wonder whether she was speculating - or how much she herself actually knew of the autopsy report?

See also Greg King The man who killed Rasputin for references to Lazovert admitting that he substituted some other powder for cyanide.

I have a copy of Margarita's book but regret that I haven't yet had time to read much due to the demands of my own projects, but I will home on the politics, as I generally do!
« Last Edit: January 10, 2011, 05:08:11 PM by Janet Ashton »
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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #169 on: January 10, 2011, 08:18:02 PM »
I sometimes think the poison myth was cultivated over the years as a means to put forward  Rasputin  was not merely human, but a  monster deserving death... " he was given enough poison to kill many men , but it could not not kill him! " Demonizing the victim  etc. His name is now synonymous with someone or thing that will not die normally....

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Offline Belochka

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #170 on: January 11, 2011, 04:16:27 AM »
Rasputin's daughter Maria actually claimed in one of her voluminous sets of memoirs that she did not believe he had been poisoned. Her reasoning was that he hated sweet cakes and would not have eaten any if they were offered him (see Rasputin, my father, p 111). THis makes me wonder whether she was speculating - or how much she herself actually knew of the autopsy report?

Since Matrena stressed in her books that her father loathed sweet foods, this information tells me that she was not informed about the autopsy results.

See also Greg King The man who killed Rasputin for references to Lazovert admitting that he substituted some other powder for cyanide.

Mr King's book "The Murder of Rasputin" @ p 173 stated the following:

"There were also repeated rumors of a deathbed confession by Lazovert in which he alleged that he had deliberately substituted a harmless chemical at the last minute."

In my edition of the book, no references were provided as to where any of these rumors came from.


I have a copy of Margarita's book but regret that I haven't yet had time to read much due to the demands of my own projects, but I will home on the politics, as I generally do!

Thank you for acquiring a copy of my book. I hope that you shall find it informative.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #171 on: January 11, 2011, 04:42:46 AM »
I sometimes think the poison myth was cultivated over the years as a means to put forward  Rasputin  was not merely human, but a  monster deserving death... " he was given enough poison to kill many men , but it could not not kill him! " Demonizing the victim  etc. His name is now synonymous with someone or thing that will not die normally....

It is far more interesting to invent a scenario in which the use of a potent poison proved so ineffective that the conspirators were compelled to resort to other means.


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Offline Belochka

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #172 on: January 11, 2011, 05:20:38 AM »
I sometimes think the poison myth was cultivated over the years as a means to put forward  Rasputin  was not merely human, but a  monster deserving death... " he was given enough poison to kill many men , but it could not not kill him! " Demonizing the victim  etc. His name is now synonymous with someone or thing that will not die normally....

It is far more interesting to invent a scenario in which the use of a potent poison proved so ineffective that the conspirators were compelled to resort to other means.

BTW I do agree with you!


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Offline Janet Ashton

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #173 on: January 11, 2011, 11:53:42 AM »


Mr King's book "The Murder of Rasputin" @ p 173 stated the following:

"There were also repeated rumors of a deathbed confession by Lazovert in which he alleged that he had deliberately substituted a harmless chemical at the last minute."

In my edition of the book, no references were provided as to where any of these rumors came from.

True; but anyone can contact him to ask questions. My main point to historyfan is that not all previous historians have uncritically accepted the poisoning tale.

Hopefully I will have time soon to read the rest of your book.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2011, 11:55:16 AM by Janet Ashton »
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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #174 on: January 11, 2011, 02:58:31 PM »
I have read this wonderfull work of Mrs Nelipa. This biography about Rasputin and the fall of the Romanov dynasty is well recearched and detailed. It contains new information about the person Rasputin and the influence at the Russian court. I like the style in which this book is written: cold case style. And let us see, what the true influence was of Rasputin on the Imperial couple. I'm looking forward to read the next book of Mrs Nelipa, Alexander III.

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #175 on: January 11, 2011, 08:11:44 PM »
I'm curious about the imperial family's knowledge of the details of the murder. Would Nikolai have been made aware of the true details of the autopsy, or would he and his family have been susceptible to the same popular rumors circulating among the public (ie, the poisoning, drowning, and Rasputin's hand frozen in the sign of benediction)?

@  p 360 you will read that Nikolai II requested his Minister of Justice to arrange the autopsy. It follows that the Emperor would have been duly informed of Professor Kosorotov's findings.

What is the source of Maria Nikolaevna's ink drawing shown on page 508? It's very pretty -- I don't recall seeing it before.

The drawing on p 508 was originally published in Illustrirovannaya Rossiya ["Russia Illustrated"], Paris in 1932. Unfortunately the drawing, which I saw in this journal at the Helsinki University library, is not as clear as I would have liked.





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Offline historyfan

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #176 on: January 11, 2011, 09:26:45 PM »


Mr King's book "The Murder of Rasputin" @ p 173 stated the following:

"There were also repeated rumors of a deathbed confession by Lazovert in which he alleged that he had deliberately substituted a harmless chemical at the last minute."

In my edition of the book, no references were provided as to where any of these rumors came from.

True; but anyone can contact him to ask questions. My main point to historyfan is that not all previous historians have uncritically accepted the poisoning tale.

Hopefully I will have time soon to read the rest of your book.



Oh no, I don't assume that they all have...just what I have read (which is by no means everyone).  : )

Offline Belochka

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #177 on: January 12, 2011, 03:38:47 AM »
I have read this wonderfull work of Mrs Nelipa. This biography about Rasputin and the fall of the Romanov dynasty is well recearched and detailed. It contains new information about the person Rasputin and the influence at the Russian court. I like the style in which this book is written: cold case style. And let us see, what the true influence was of Rasputin on the Imperial couple. I'm looking forward to read the next book of Mrs Nelipa, Alexander III.

Hi Teddy,

I really delighted that you have enjoyed reading my book. Many thanks for your kind comments.

It is my intention to complete the AIII manuscript well before the end of this year.

Best regards,

Margarita


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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #178 on: January 16, 2011, 08:41:10 PM »
Margarita, perhaps this is slightly off-topic, but I have a question about the Russian language as I've read it in your book.  It's regarding surnames.  I understood that the surname of a Russian female is the same as that of her husband or her father, but with a suffix, like "skaya" or "ova".  Example "Matrena Rasputina".

However, many times when I have read the transliteration of a headline regarding Rasputin, his name is changed to read "Rasputina".  Example "Delo Rasputina".  Why is that?  I'm just confused about why the name suddenly appears "feminized".

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Re: A New Rasputin Biography by Margarita Nelipa
« Reply #179 on: January 16, 2011, 08:48:31 PM »
Margarita, perhaps this is slightly off-topic, but I have a question about the Russian language as I've read it in your book.  It's regarding surnames.  I understood that the surname of a Russian female is the same as that of her husband or her father, but with a suffix, like "skaya" or "ova".  Example "Matrena Rasputina".

However, many times when I have read the transliteration of a headline regarding Rasputin, his name is changed to read "Rasputina".  Example "Delo Rasputina".  Why is that?  I'm just confused about why the name suddenly appears "feminized".

It has to do with the declension of nouns in the genitive case in Russian. You can read more about it here. I think you'll find the info under the heading "Using the genitive case - ownership" most relevant to your question.
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