Author Topic: Russian Scientists Claim Marie to be the Female Body Missing From Pigs Meadow Grave  (Read 78177 times)

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Offline AGRBear

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Back to subject which is:  Marie...missing?

For all we know, Marie may be in the same witness protection program and we may run into her. I'll let you know.
Maybe she didn't want to be stalked either.



The revolutionaries who later called themselves Bolsheviks did stalk the Romanovs which resulted in some of the members of the Royal Family being blown to pieces even before March of 1917.

Nicholas II's entire attitude about the revolutionaries can probably date back to the day he saw his grandfather torn to pieces as pools of his blood were pumped out of his wounds as he lay more dead than alive on the couch in the palace.

What the young Nicholas II saw  was more than a dying man, he saw a man, a victim of those whom his grandfather had set free and that these men returned in payment for his good deeds by  making  bombs which these men then  used them on a man who should have been their hero, not their villian.

Every stalker has his or her own reason, then, and, now.  More often than not, the reasons are not good.

So, for the finally time,  I make a request that this stalking dicussion ends here and is taken to PM, PLEASE.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 12:37:42 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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Back to subject which is:  Marie...missing?

I hope there were plenty of home runs.

If you read my post, I carefully said that the American scientists and most historians interpreted the Russian determination to have Anastasia in the grave as an attempt to quell the peristent survival rumors in the West.

BEAR:  Perhaps I should have asked: Do you think this is true?

 Simon wrote:  
Quote
This is a "best guess" as to why they came to the conclusions they did, since the Americans regarded the skeleton as Maria's.

BEAR:  A "guess" on your part.  I understand this.

Simon wrote
Quote
The Russians themselves may have done this because they did, in fact, believe that the youngest Grand Duchess was in the grave.

This is where I get hung up.  

Either the Russians [scientists to the govt. officals]  are suppressing the truth or they believe it is the truth.  Which is it?  Can't have it both ways since they are in joint agreement.

Simon wrote:
Quote
The word whimsy means that one could espouse this position on a . . . well, on a whim.

BEAR:  So we've lighten the load  of evidence being "quelled"  to something of "whimsy".
Back to the question about this being a possible "little white lie that harms no one" kind of occurance.


 Simon wrote:
Quote
I have seen more whimsical positions expressed in the past year than Carter has liver pills
.

BEAR:   8)  AND,  I stand on the fifth,  your honor.
 
Simon wrote:  
Quote
And no, I do not mean the Russian scientists. Had I meant them, I would have specified them.

BEAR:  You meant those who believe Marie is missing. So, how can we  set aside the Russian scientist?  Must we not include the Russian scientists?

Simon wrote:
Quote
I am glad you know what a conspiracy is. Since I said that I do not regard the Russians as engaged in one, I have no idea what it has to do with my post.

Simon

BEAR:  If they, the Russian officals and the scientsts did indeed "quell" the evidence as many of the American scientists and most historicans believe,  then isn't that part of a conspiracy?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Forum Admin

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OK,

I think everyone on both sides is over-reacting. I have reviewed this whole mess. Tania/Bear, of course stalking is an abhorrent criminal act, and not to be encouraged or tolerated. However, if you really read why Annie wrote, even as a joke, it is a CAUTIONARY statement about revealing one's location on the internet if you have fears of being stalked or reason to think you might become a victim.  Bear revealed she was in the San Francisco area, Annie joked that she shouldn't have revealed it...Sometimes a joke is just a joke.

Now, look, the Bay area is HUGE with something like 8 million people living within an easy drive of the baseball stadium, there is no genuine fear of anyone learning anything from such a statement.  Tania, I think you over-reacted, albeit with the best of intentions.  Sometimes in today's society, people start to scream "Stalker!" for incorrect and innocent reasons. Sometimes a wrongly dialed phone number is nothing more sinister than that. Annie was clearly not supporting stalking at all, even by making the joke.

Annie and Helen, you guys also over-reacted and failed to acknowledge Tania's and Bear's genuine caution, especially where children are involved. 

Frankly, I think both sides are right, and both also over reacted and thus also wrong.  I suggest everyone apologize to each other, privately, and return back to topic.

FA.

Offline AGRBear

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Forgiveness party at Bears.

PM me to let me know  what you can bring  and I'll let you know the date and time.


 ;D
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 04:02:57 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline Ivan Komarov

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Honestly, and I'm not trying to be reinciting a riot or anything, but I don't think we need to worry too much about vague statements like that - firstly because they're pretty vague, and secondly because most psychos get suspended/banned from this site, which I think says something very good for our admins.
Just in case the fates are kind and you come back someday
I don't want to live without my little Anastasia
Anastasia, your disappearance is the thorn in my side
Anastasia, you know your absence is the thorn in my side

Offline AGRBear

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I PM Ivan my reply.

Thanks everyone for responding about the party.  Haven't heard from Annie and Helen, yet,  but I'm sure they don't want to miss a fun party!

 

So far we have honey, English biscuits,  cool-aide or tea.....,   party hats that look much better than mine and much much more.

AGRBear
« Last Edit: September 16, 2006, 03:43:33 PM by AGRBear »
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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...[in part]...

Anyhow, I side with the Russians, partially because I think that they had a more convincing argument on the matter, especially in the detailed descriptions of matching remains to profiles of the deceased; I'm not saying, though, that I'm really sure that either is completely right, or that I believe Yurovsky over the other reports and vice versa.

Do you think it is possible that the Russians might have more evidence than just the bones from the mass grave?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline AGRBear

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>>The Russians have no reason <<
  ...[[in part]...
to lie.  No one does.  Gill, Stoneking, Sykes, Abramov, Jenkins, Deets, Weedn, Ivanov - none of these people have any motive whatsoever to lie in this because there is absolutely nothing that this would change. 

....

Bev, do you think the Russians are "whimsical" because they believe the missing body from the mass grave is  GD Marie and not GD Anastasia?

AGRBear
"What is true by lamplight is not always true by sunlight."

Joubert, Pensees, No. 152

Offline imperial angel

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I have always believed that it is Anastasia who is missing based on what I have read, especially Massie's the Final Chapter book. After reading that, you can't have many doubts in my view, that the remains that they have did simply not fit those of what Anastasia's should have been like. Of course, it is easier to say they are those of Anastasia, because that disproves survivors, including that most famous one, Anna Anderson. But there is much more that disproves her, by the way. I think the evidence of the remains simply fits the conclusion it is Marie, plain and simple. And if people want me to quote the books I have read, I will,it isn't just my opinion. I guess I am more interested in their lives than their deaths; but it is important to know that those remains were those of Marie. And getting off subject, I think everyone needs to be respectful of each other on the forum. The world outside is full of disrespect, why do we need to bring it into the forum? We don't need to make joking remarks about people that are basically disrespectful-how would anyone like it of those kinds of remarks were directed at them? I don't think they would, or at least, I know I woudn't.

Offline miki_nastya

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I am sure that nobody survie.
otmabannertt0.jpg

Offline imperial angel

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Well, obviously no one survived. But what we were discussing, is what happened to Marie's body if the bones that were identified as hers were really that of Anastasia. I disagree and I think that her bones have been found, in which case those of the missing grand duchess are those of Anastasia. That doesn't mean anybody survived.

Offline Guinastasia

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Well, obviously no one survived. But what we were discussing, is what happened to Marie's body if the bones that were identified as hers were really that of Anastasia. I disagree and I think that her bones have been found, in which case those of the missing grand duchess are those of Anastasia. That doesn't mean anybody survived.

Very very true.  After all, the other missing body is that of Alexei, and I cannot take seriously any claims that he could have survived that night.  The poor boy couldn't even walk, how was he supposed to get away?  That and if the claims of Yurovsky are true-he was shot at point blank range in the head.  You mean to tell me a hemophiliac, who almost bled to death from a groin injury and later from a nosebleed, somehow survives being shot in the head? 

As for the missing grand duchess, I too agree that it's Anastasia, just from reading the Massie book and now Greg's and Penny's recent work.

That and the brutality of the crime-I don't think anyone could have escaped.  Perhaps some of them weren't truly dead when they were transferred, but I don't believe they survived beyond that night.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 08:41:57 AM by LisaDavidson »
May the road rise up to meet you.
May the wind always be at your back.
May the sun shine warm upon your face,
and rains fall soft upon your fields.
And until we meet again,
May God hold you in the palm of His hand.

Offline imperial angel

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Yes, indeed. Practical common sense would tel you that it would have been very hard for the IF to have escaped, any of them. It does seem as well, from what evidence we have, that none of them did. But sometimes people refuse to believe the truth, hence the survivors, as they could be called, or imposters if you are being more truthful. ;)

Offline Helen_Azar

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As for the missing grand duchess, I too agree that it's Anastasia, just from reading the Massie book and now Greg's and Penny's recent work.

Hi Guinastasia,

It is quite impossible to tell whose body is missing, Maria's or Anastasia's. They are just too close in age and too closely related. We will never know for sure, unless by some miracle a confirmed sample of their respective DNA turns up, which of course will never happen. All other methods are not reliable enough, I'm afraid. So there is no reason to even speculate, we simply will never know, no matter what Robert Massie or anyone else feels.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 08:44:17 AM by LisaDavidson »

Offline Helen_Azar

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As for the missing grand duchess, I too agree that it's Anastasia, just from reading the Massie book and now Greg's and Penny's recent work.

BTW, you may not be aware of this, but we are forbidden to mention, or refer to Greg and Penny's recent work on this forum, as per the FA...